|
Hello all,
*PFS Character build*
I've recently decided to try putting together a UMD Fighter with a backstory that studied and tried really hard but just couldn't cut it as a Wizard. I'm focusing her on UMD to activate cleric/ranger/wizard/etc Wands and Scrolls to "emulate" a caster but still be martially inclined.
I've thought of trying the Eldritch Knight, it gets a few bonus feats but not near what a Fighter gets. EK also has bad saves and hardly any skill points per lvl. So I've thrown together the following. (It's a rough draft so be gentle.)
Class – 9 Fighter (Lore Warden) / 2 Monk
Race – Human
Traits -
* Fighter Society (+1 AC if wearing armor)
* Dangerously Curious (+1 UMD & class skill)
Stats -
Str: 13
Dex: 18 (+2 racial added)
Con: 12
Int: 12
Wis: 10
Cha: 13
1) Fighter 1: Bab +1, Weapon Focus: longsword (lvl 1), Focused Study (human), Weapon Finesse (fighter), +1hp
2) Monk 1: Bab +1, Deflect Arrows (monk), +1hp
3) Monk 2: Bab +2, Skill Focus: Knowledge Arcane (lvl 3), Dodge (monk), Evasion (monk), +1hp
4) Fighter 2: Bab +3, +1 Dex, Slashing Grace (fighter), Combat Expertise (fighter), +1hp
5) Fighter 3: Bab +4, Eldritch Heritage - Arcane: Familiar (5), +1hp
6) Fighter 4: Bab +5, Power Attack (fighter), +1hp
7) Fighter 5: Bab +6/+1, Quick Draw (lvl 7), +1hp
8) Fighter 6: Bab +7/+2, +1 Dex, Greater Weapon Focus: longsword (fighter), +1hp
9) Fighter 7: Bab +8/+3, Magical Aptitude (lvl 9), +1hp
10) Fighter 8: Bab +9/+4, Improved Critical (fighter), +1hp
11) Fighter 9: Bab +10/+5, FREE (lvl 11), +1hp
Notes -
Focused Study: 1st lvl Use Magic Device, 8th lvl Perception
Familiar - Rabbit (+4 initiative)
I don't want to use Dervish Dance, doesn't fit the character's background so I kept Str up to 13 to still have access to Power Attack. Piranha Strike only works on Light Weapons and Slashing Grace only affects One Handed weapons so these two Feats at not compatible in PFS.
For melee I'll be sporting a "Sword Saint" style of carrying 3 Scabbard of Vigors and quick-drawing my longsword out 3x a day to get +3atk/+3dmg for 3rnds. Her other hand is kept empty to deflect arrows, and to use scrolls or wands.
Lore Warden and Monk both give 4 skill points a level, +1 for 12int and +1 from Human's Skill trait, I'll have 6 skill points a level to play around with while having bonus feats from Fighter.
Level 1 she should have a +9 UMD which seems decent, I'm hoping that's a good start. What level would she be pretty reliable for UMD'ing wands or scrolls in combat?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Some of this I threw together quite fast but the overall concept is there. A fighter that tries her best to mimic a caster with UMD checks, decent skill points per level (lore warden), familiar, and evasion to compliment her high Dex score.
I've thought about a Half-Elf with Adaptability (free Skill Focus), Arcane Training race trait, Elven Spirit feat to gain the Elf Envoy race trait to have a Wizard CL to avoid UMD checks, but I would still have to UMD for any Ranger, Cleric, or etc spell. Feel free to leave comments if you think this is a better route than the above Human build.
If anyone has suggestions or corrections please feel free to reply. Hoping this will be a decently fun character concept and build.
You know you can't use Weapon Finesse with the longsword, right? You can use a rapier instead and pick up Fencing Grace from Advanced Class Origins, which will give you Dex to attack and damage.
Also, the Defender of the Society trait only works in medium or heavy armor, which you're not proficient in as a Lore Warden. You might swap it out for Clever Wordplay, which lets you use Int for UMD instead of Charisma. That way you can take Charisma down to 10 or lower and boost Int, which helps your concept all around (although you wouldn't qualify for Eldritch Heritage, if that's really important to you).
Also, you need 8 levels in fighter to qualify for Greater Weapon Focus, so the 2-level dip in monk means you can't get it until 10.
I'd also recommend getting at least 11 Wisdom, so you don't have to emulate ability scores for those level 1 divine spells.
|
|
You know you can't use Weapon Finesse with the longsword, right? You can use a rapier instead and pick up Fencing Grace from Advanced Class Origins, which will give you Dex to attack and damage.
Also, the Defender of the Society trait only works in medium or heavy armor, which you're not proficient in as a Lore Warden. You might swap it out for Clever Wordplay, which lets you use Int for UMD instead of Charisma. That way you can take Charisma down to 10 or lower and boost Int, which helps your concept all around (although you wouldn't qualify for Eldritch Heritage, if that's really important to you).
Also, you need 8 levels in fighter to qualify for Greater Weapon Focus, so the 2-level dip in monk means you can't get it until 10.
I'd also recommend getting at least 11 Wisdom, so you don't have to emulate ability scores for those level 1 divine spells.
Yeah, I noticed that after posting..but I was picturing a Traditional Chinese Sword weapon being used. I've got 3 credits saved and I could swap the progression around to 1st & 2nd level Fighter then 2 levels of Monk, which would let me get Slashing Grace at 2nd level.
Good catch on Defender of the Society. Not sure if burning a feat for Medium armor would be worth it....or if I should just pickup a different trait. Clever Wordplay requires a book I don't have and burns both my Traits which doesn't seem like a big payoff. I kind of like the idea of Eldritch Heritage for the +4 initiative; I should probably also pickup Improved Initiative which I'd easily have a +12 between those two and my Dex mod.
Thanks for pointing out Greater Weapon Focus, I think I had that in the build before I swapped in the 2 Monk levels. Could easily change this to Weapon Specialization: Longsword for a free +2dmg per hit.
How hard is it to emulate ability scores? Is the check to emulate an ability score equal to your total Mod + roll or just your total Mod -15? From the way I'm reading it it's your d20 roll + total UMD mod, which means I'd need a 26 or higher on my roll to emulate a 1st level Divine spell.
I could drop Dex down to 17 to free up 3 build points. Could up Wis to 12 and throw the left over point into Int.
The thought of using a Rapier is somewhat tempting but it means I have to buy another book. The Inspired Blade Swashbuckler archetype does look nice. I just recently bought the ACG but I plan on picking up some other books before I'd pickup the 'ACG Origins' so I'm going to pass on the Rapier idea.
I appreciate your feedback; keep the ideas/suggestions flowing. :)
|
|
Well, I tried your approach with the Dangerously Curious and Clever Wordplay combo. Decided to switch things up a little differently as I was getting frustrated with the poor choice of weapon selection and the feat tax. Also figured since Lore Warden gives Combat Expertise, bonuses to CMB manuevers, and I'll be wanting to use my turn for buffs and maximize my time with attacks of opportunities I came up with this.
Class – Fighter (Lore Warden)
Race – Half-Elf
Traits -
* Clever Wordplay (use Int mod instead of Cha mod for UMD)
* Dangerously Curious (+1 to UMD & it's a class skill)
Alt Racial Traits –
* Arcane Training (Favored Class Wizard, can use spell trigger & spell completion items for FC as a 1st-level wizard.)
**Elven Spirit Feat – use feat to take Envoy racial trait: Gain the following spell-like abilities once per day: comprehend languages, detect magic, detect poison, and read magic. The caster level for these effects is equal to the elf's level. This racial trait replaces elven magic. (this opens up Arcane Strike at full caster level)
Stats -
Str: 16
Dex: 16 (+2 added)
Con: 12 (-2 added)
Int: 14 (+2 added)
Wis: 12
Cha: 7
1) Fighter 1: Bab +1, Elven Spirit (lvl 1), Skill Focus: UMD (H-E), EWP: Whip (fighter)
2) Fighter 2: Bab +2, Weapon Focus: Whip (fighter), Combat Expertise (lore warden)
3) Monk 1: Bab +2, Deflect Arrows (monk), Whip Mastery (lvl 3)
4) Monk 2: Bab +3, +1 Str, Combat Reflexes (monk), Evasion (monk)
5) Fighter 3: Bab +4, Improved Trip (5)
6) Fighter 4: Bab +5, Improved Whip Mastery (fighter)
7) Fighter 5: Bab +6/+1, Greater Trip (lvl 7)
8) Fighter 6: Bab +7/+2, +1 Str, Fury’s Fall (fighter)
9) Fighter 7: Bab +8/+3, Power Attack (lvl 9)
10) Fighter 8: Bab +9/+4, Arcane Strike (fighter)
11) Fighter 9: Bab +10/+5, Improved Initiative (lvl 11)
UMD Check 11th level: d20 + 23 bonus
Can use 1st level Wizard wands/scrolls with no UMD check. Can use up to 4th level Wizard wands/scrolls with only an activation check (no need to emulate ability score or class feature).
I know this build takes up a lot of feats as if I had went Slashing Grace or etc, but I'm able to make attacks (via opportunity) and still use my standard to use wands/scrolls. At 6th level I'll get AoO's from 5-10ft and I'll have 15ft reach. Whip is 1handed so my other hand is free for deflecting arrows/bombs or pulling out wands/scrolls and casting. EWP: Whip counts for Scorpion Whip in Adventure's Armory book so I'll have the exact same weapon but lethal damage right away.
Any suggestions? I think I have everything correct here. I didn't go for the damage boosters (Power Attack or Arcane Strike) first but instead went for crowd control to trip foes and provide AoO's for myself and allies.
P.S. - Thanks for the suggestion on Clever Wordplay, it allowed me to dump Charisma, boost Int a little for more skill points and raise Str to have damage right off the bat.
EDIT: Any suggestions on what Arcane Class would be most advantageous? Witch, Wizard, or Magus? Excluding Summoner and Bard since I dumped Charisma.
|
|
*bump*
Any suggestions for what Arcane Class to choose as my Favored Class for Half-Elf's 'Arcane Training'? I tanked Charisma so Bard and Summoner are out, but there's still Wizard, Witch, and Magus.
Also if you see any issues or have any suggestions for my latest build, Half-Elf with Whip & UMD, please feel free to leave a post. Thanks! :)
|
|
Is it worth spending the 3 feats on Improved Trip, Greater Trip, and Fury's Fall for a Lore Warden fighter? Or am I better off getting Power Attack and Arcane Strike earlier and then getting Skill Focus: Knowledge Arcane, Eldritch Heritage, and then Improved Familiar by level 10?
I know trip builds can be strong and this one should be exceptionally strong but a bit worried about going against non-trippable monsters (flying or tons of legs). I believe familiars use your UMD check so having an Improved Familiar would increase my action economy and my character's nature should provide my Familiar with wands and scrolls to use. Thoughts?
|
|
Witch seems to have some good spells like Screech, CLW, and others but there's a lot of spells on the Wizard list that it seems like the Witch is missing.
Gaseous Form - against grapples or swallow whole
Haste - obvious reasons
Blur - against rogues, 20% miss chance is useful in general also
Dimensional Anchor - against teleporting outsiders.
Resist Energy - versatile against various elementals, arcane casters, or some outsiders. Throw this on at the beginning of a fight and negate 10dmg from every hit that Fire elemental is doing.
True Strike - Auto trip? I believe so.
Communal Protection from Evil - level 2 group buff vs Evil and Summoned creatures. Good use of a standard.
Expeditious Retreat - extra movement, or an extra 15ft acrobatics roll movement
Touch of the Sea - for those times when you have no choice but swim
Shield - great since I'm not using a shield
Seems the classic Wizard list provides the biggest selection of buffs. Did I miss anything?
Also, should I swap my trip feats for an improved familiar and getting Power Attack & Arcane Strike earlier? I'd up my dmg quite a bit and improve my action economy with a familiar but I'd be losing +7 to trip and the free AoO generated from them getting tripped.
At one time there was a fighter at our local with a similar concept. he made it just to prove it could be done, but he said it ended up being one of his most successful characters.
I believe he just went straight fighter. Got all his two-weapon combat feats from fighter bonus feats. He dumped charisma, intelligence to 14, and took dangerously curious. The human alternate racial trait for multiple skill focus. Kept his UMD and perception at max ranks.
Then used most of his prestige to buy a variety of level 1 buff wands (and a few useful buff, condition removal, and utility scrolls). If there was a cooperative caster in the group he would hand them 1 or 2 of his wands and ask him to use them on me if a fight breaks out.
If there was not a cooperative caster, he would use them on himself before a fight started. Occasionally he would roll a 1, but he had a bunch of wands.
|
|
At one time there was a fighter at our local with a similar concept. he made it just to prove it could be done, but he said it ended up being one of his most successful characters.
I believe he just went straight fighter. Got all his two-weapon combat feats from fighter bonus feats. He dumped charisma, intelligence to 14, and took dangerously curious. The human alternate racial trait for multiple skill focus. Kept his UMD and perception at max ranks.
Then used most of his prestige to buy a variety of level 1 buff wands (and a few useful buff, condition removal, and utility scrolls). If there was a cooperative caster in the group he would hand them 1 or 2 of his wands and ask him to use them on me if a fight breaks out.
If there was not a cooperative caster, he would use them on himself before a fight started. Occasionally he would roll a 1, but he had a bunch of wands.
On paper, and being modest in my bonuses at lvl 11 I'm looking at -
+19/+14 when power attacking for 1d4+17dmg, 4 AoO's per turn, roughly 25AC, improved familiar using my +23 UMD checks with buffing wands or using scrolls. That's assuming I spend half my money on scrolls, wands, or rods.I miss out on a few things going Half-Elf, like not getting Focused Study I miss out on a free "Skill Focus: Perception" at 8th level, I forfeit my Favored Class Bonuses to HP, and lose 1 skill point a level not being Human, but going Half-Elf I'm gaining Arcane Strike (+3dmg at lvl 10, my CL goes off my Half-Elf level due to the Envoy Elf racial trait that I pick up, thanks to the Elven Spirit feat.) I also gain access to buy, and use, a wand of Paragon Surge, not sure in PFS if Humans can access this spell in ARG to emulate it but I doubt that most tables would allow it. If anything it would be a point of controversy.
All in all going Half-Elf seems like a nice trade off, and the swap to an Improved Familiar seems like a stronger option than putting all my eggs in 1 basket to being that "guy that trips almost everything." I should still be able to trip someone when I want. I just have my familiar activate a wand (using my +23 UMD check) of Truestrike on me first.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Just talked to one of my local PFS friends and he caught a few errors with my latest build. Going the 2 traits to dump Charisma and get UMD as a class skill I'm not able to qualify for Eldritch Heritage.
Class – 9 Lore Warden / 2 Monk
Race – Half-Elf
Traits -
* Clever Wordplay (use Int mod instead of Cha mod for UMD)
* Dangerously Curious (+1 to UMD & it's a class skill)
Alt Racial Traits –
* Arcane Training - Favored Class Wizard, can use spell trigger & spell completion items for FC as a 1st-level wizard.
* Ancestral Arms – EWP: Whip
**Elven Spirit Feat – use feat to take Envoy racial trait: Gain the following spell-like abilities once per day: comprehend languages, detect magic, detect poison, and read magic. The caster level for these effects is equal to the elf's level. This racial trait replaces elven magic. (this opens up Arcane Strike at full caster level)
Stats -
Str: 16
Dex: 16 (+2 added)
Con: 12 (-2 added)
Int: 14 (+2 added)
Wis: 12
Cha: 7
1) Fighter 1: Bab +1, Elven Spirit (lvl 1), Acestral Arms: EWP Scorpion Whip (H-Elf), Weapon Focus: Scorpion Whip (fighter)
2) Fighter 2: Bab +2, Whip Mastery (fighter), Combat Expertise (lore warden)
3) Monk 1: Bab +2, Skill Focus: UMD (lvl 3), Deflect Arrows (monk), FoB (monk), Stunning Fist (monk), Improved Unarmed Strike (monk)
4) Monk 2: Bab +3, +1 Str, Combat Reflexes (monk), Evasion (monk)
5) Fighter 3: Bab +4, Improved Trip (5)
6) Fighter 4: Bab +5, Improved Whip Mastery (fighter)
7) Fighter 5: Bab +6/+1, Greater Trip (lvl 7)
8) Fighter 6: Bab +7/+2, +1 Str, Fury’s Fall (fighter)
9) Fighter 7: Bab +8/+3, Power Attack (lvl 9)
10) Fighter 8: Bab +9/+4, Arcane Strike (fighter)
11) Fighter 9: Bab +10/+5, Improved Initiative (lvl 11)
At Level 11 -
Me: 79hp (Assuming my Con is still 12)
Looking at roughly a +28 to Trip maneuvers. (+10 BAB, +4 Lore Warden, +4 Str, +3 Dex (Fury's Fall), +2 Imp Trip, +2 Greater Trip, +3 from a +3 Whip.)
UMD Checks @ 11th level: d20 + 23 bonus
Note 1: Has access to Paragon Surge Half-Elf spell from ARG.
Note 2: Can use 1st level Wizard wands/scrolls with no UMD check. Can use up to 4th level Wizard wands/scrolls with only an activation check (no need to emulate ability score or class feature).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Just wish I could still have an Improved Familiar to use my UMD bonus to throw buffs on me quicker so I'm able to play a little more aggressive/offensive.
I'm back to the Trip Feats, to be honest Lore Warden does have some good synergy with combat maneuvers. It seems like most of my stats would take a hit to pull Charisma back up to 13 to qualify for Eldritch Heritage. Suggestions?
Didn't see a question or request.
It looks perfectly reasonable to me. Should be successful.
Probably not exactly how I would do it, but it is good that we're all different.
|
I'm not sure exactly what the monk levels are giving you, and why you are taking whip mastery when you only have proficiency in the scorpion whip.
If you really want to be a whip master, and want to excel at wand use, I would drop the monk levels, and dip Magus 3, and take the Wand Wielder arcana. True Strike on command will make sure your whip maneuvers will work.
|
|
Sorry ElterAgo, I guess I didn't lay out the questions very well. Here:
What are some solutions to gaining Eldritch Heritage without destroying my character? I guess I'd remove the trait Clever Wordplay, what are some good replacement traits that would compliment this character?
1) "Would a trip build be less effective than having a Familiar? I feel like going the Trip build may be trapping myself for some rough PFS scenarios with those immune to trip."
2) "How could I fix my stats to get a 13 Charisma without destroying my Fighter's stats?"
3) "Is it worth the cost of 3 feats and upping Charisma to 13 to gain a familiar?"
4) "Is there some other great feat options that would work for this build instead of taking 3 feats for Trip or 3 feats for a Familiar?"
|
|
I'm not sure exactly what the monk levels are giving you, and why you are taking whip mastery when you only have proficiency in the scorpion whip.
If you really want to be a whip master, and want to excel at wand use, I would drop the monk levels, and dip Magus 3, and take the Wand Wielder arcana. True Strike on command will make sure your whip maneuvers will work.
Monk levels are giving me the following -
1) Deflect Arrows - knock away 1 arrow, thrown weapon, or bomb each turn that is thrown at me as long as I have 1 hand free. I'll be wielding a whip in 1 hand and the other free to grab a wand (spring-loaded wrist sheath) or grab a scroll from a handy haversack.
2) Combat Reflexes - works great with a whip since I threaten both 5ft and 10ft with Imp Whip Mastery.
3) Evasion - still works in Light armor. Take no damage if you succeed your reflex save, giving me a chance to avoid some damage from AoE spells like Fireball, elemental breath attacks, etc.
~~~~~~~~~
Adventure's Armory says "Scorpion Whip - If you are proficient with Whips, you are proficient with a Scorpion Whip" 1d4dmg, x2 crit, Slashing dmg, Disarm/Trip/Reach". I guess I could list my feats for just Whip and not Scorpion Whip since Whip Mastery will let me do lethal damage with them. Scorpion whip does 1dmg more though. I would argue that proficiency in whip and feats in whip count also for scorpion whip.
Whip Mastery is needed for Improved Whip Mastery, simple enough. Imp Whip Mastery lets me threaten 5ft and 10ft, which lets me use the Combat Reflexes that I picked up from Monk to get up to 3-4 AoO's a turn.
~~~~~~~~~
Magus 3 level dip suggestion - So if I dip 3 levels in Magus I pick up Wand Wielder arcana then during a full-round attack I activate a wand along with my full attack. Since my Magus caster level is only 3 my concentration check is horrible but since I'm using a whip, at 10ft or 15ft range, there's no need to make a concentration check. If I'm attack at 5ft would I need to concentrate with a wand? I know wands don't provoke AoO's. This seems like a good idea. I'm missing the free Combat Reflexes and Snatch Arrow feat from Monk and also losing Evasion though. Anyone else want to advise which they think is better? The 2 level monk dip or the 3 level magus dip?
|
|
Really, any of the builds concepts are viable. It is a matter of what you want to do the most.
Click on the avatar to the left to see this character's build. He is a wand wielder magus. Uses a whip and wand a true strike to trip or disarm virtually anything that stands or has a weapon. I am not nearly as good a maneuver master at constantly tripping especially on attacks of opportunity. But when I decide I really want to trip something, I am much better than nearly anyone else at it.
(Also look at both the dueling enhancement in the field guide and in ultimate equipment. I would suggest both for your whip when affordable.)
Yes, there are fights where there is nothing to trip (or disarm), but then you still have a pretty high BaB and decent strength to start chopping with a heavy sharp thing.
I would say the trip build is a bit more powerful when it works out. But there are times when it won't apply. The wand wielding improved familiar is probably more versatile. Especially if you equip it with several decent wants. A case can easily be made for either concept.
Personally I'm usually not a big fan of dips into other classes. Maybe 1 level if really needed. But not usually the 2 or 3 levels. You start losing too much of the primary class. Granted the main thing in the fighter class is feats and you have a bunch of those. So fighter is probably one of the few where I would consider more levels of something else, but I still probably wouldn't do it.
If I really want wand wielder from a few levels of magus, why not a few more to get the familiar for another arcana? At that point you are mostly a magus, why not just go all magus? {shug} It is a personal choice.
|
|
Personally I'm usually not a big fan of dips into other classes. Maybe 1 level if really needed. But not usually the 2 or 3 levels. You start losing too much of the primary class. Granted the main thing in the fighter class is feats and you have a bunch of those. So fighter is probably one of the few where I would consider more levels of something else, but I still probably wouldn't do it.
If I really want wand wielder from a few levels of magus, why not a few more to get the familiar for another arcana? At that point you are mostly a magus, why not just go all magus? {shug} It is a personal choice.
Well, I think there's some faults here. I'm not wanting to build a magus exactly. I'm wanting a full BAB fighter that is an "Arcane Pretender" similar to one of the NPC's in the NPC Codex book. If I go 6 levels of Magus for the Familiar, I have to continue to 7th just so I can get a decent improved familiar.
Going this route would be tempting to just go Human for the bonus Skill Focus from Focused Study and getting my +1hp per level back from FCB's (Since the reason for H-Elf was to gain access to a Wizard Spell List, going Magus I just get theirs). But doing that my Arcane Strike is stuck at 7th level and my Familiar doesn't improve past 7th level. Only way to fix either of those is to go full Magus, so then I'm a 3/4 BAB class, with half the feats a Fighter would have, less skill points per level, and no Weapon Training 1 or 2. I think this really throws me away from my original concept also, which I don't like.
|
|
Understood. I was just giving my reasoning. I rarely make a build with dips. When I do it is only 1. I think I've used 2 levels 1 time. When I get to 3 or more, I'm never happy with it. If I'm taking 3 levels in something else, I'm pretty obviously not happy with the class I started building from. So if I'm not happy with it, why continue the build at all? I'll just do something different.
A few weeks ago a guy was proposing a warpriest build. It had 2 (or 4) levels of monk, 1 (or 3) levels of fighter, and 3 levels of magus. So his 11th level warpriest build had only 3 levels of warpriest. Yes, it got a bunch of swift action and low level buffs. But other than that it wasn't really good at anything. He gave up the higher level powers on 4 classes to get some decent synergy on the low level powers. Plus it wasn't really good at the 'thing' it was designed for until about level 8, when PFS retires at level 12. I would never have been happy with the character.
|
|
Understood. I was just giving my reasoning. I rarely make a build with dips. When I do it is only 1. I think I've used 2 levels 1 time. When I get to 3 or more, I'm never happy with it. If I'm taking 3 levels in something else, I'm pretty obviously not happy with the class I started building from. So if I'm not happy with it, why continue the build at all? I'll just do something different.
A few weeks ago a guy was proposing a warpriest build. It had 2 (or 4) levels of monk, 1 (or 3) levels of fighter, and 3 levels of magus. So his 11th level warpriest build had only 3 levels of warpriest. Yes, it got a bunch of swift action and low level buffs. But other than that it wasn't really good at anything. He gave up the higher level powers on 4 classes to get some decent synergy on the low level powers. Plus it wasn't really good at the 'thing' it was designed for until about level 8, when PFS retires at level 12. I would never have been happy with the character.
I completely understand what you mean. I was wanting to make 100% fighter that could act as a swiss army knife with wands and scrolls. Don't have a Cleric or a Wizard in a PFS scenario? No problem, just UMD a wand of CLW to heal an ally or a wand of Create Pit against that ridiculously hard to kill robot.
I thought about using a regular reach weapon, but they are all two-handed. Which stops me from being able to get AoO's after pull out a scroll or wand and activating that spell. The whip seemed useful as it only takes up 1 hand and I've got the extra fighter feats to do it. Plus I can still attack and get AoO's at 5ft while still threatening 10ft, and I can attack at 15ft without the Lunge feat.
I figured since I'm taking advantage of using a 1handed weapon and keeping a hand open for wands or scrolls I may as well have Deflect Arrow. Ranged attacks are somewhat common in PFS but if I come in contact with an enemy Alchemist that uses bombs I've already won. Being able to deflect a 6d6 bomb once a turn is great. I was wondering if I should go for Snatch Arrow feat also so I could, as an immediate action, throw that arrow, handaxe, or bomb right back at the bad guy.
Grabbing evasion seemed like a smart choice though. I've seem a lot of people drop due to multiple fireballs. Couple scenarios ago my monk avoided about 50dmg from two successful Reflex saves vs fireballs.
I'm thinking I could grab a familiar still if I went with the below stats -
Str: 16
Dex: 14
Con: 12
Int: 14
Wis: 8
Cha: 13
If I lower Int down from 14 to 12 I have to emulate a 13 or 14 int score to use 3rd or 4th level Wizard spell wands, which means there's now a chance of failure for 3rd-4th wizard wands.
This drops my Will save down 2 points but I guess I could spend my 2nd trait on "Focused Disciple" or "Indomitable Faith" to help my Will save. Also, the 2 level Monk dip adds a +3 to Fort/Reflex/Will saves which is a nice boost for a Fighter. Which maybe you (Jorin) and Imbicatus didn't notice earlier in addition to the 2 free feats and Evasion that Monk gives me?
|
|
Nope, didn't miss that. The saves of the monk are nice. I still don't think I would dump wisdom. Though if you are doing the wand thing, you do have the option of spending most of your fights under the effects of Protection From Evil (or chaos). Which would mostly mitigate that.
This use of the skill also applies to other spell completion magic items.
This hasn't come up for me. But as I read it, your stat won't make a difference for wands. That is part of why it works for familiars to be wand buffers.
|
|
I've been playing around with going straight 11 levels of Fighter and I'm after much messing around I'm still seeing a ton more benefits by dipping Monk.
I'm planning on using a 2handed reach weapon, so Imp Unarmed Strike lets me use feats like Step up effectively. I see controversy and table variation with getting AoO's from Spiked Armor against archers and casters, especially after I used my turn to attack and my hands are occupied. Regardless, it's just easier if I have the Monk's Imp Unarmed Strike as it states legs, knees, and head can be used, so I safely threaten 5ft and 10ft at all times.
I get 2 bonus feats, great boost to all my saves, and some Monk archetypes offer some really good bonuses. I could use some help weighing the bonuses though of a few archetypes. I plan on taking between 2-4 levels in Monk and the rest Fighter. I've narrowed it down to two archetypes.
1st level - Take Precise Shot and I get Free Perfect Strike which I can use even in armor.
2nd level - Take Rapid Shot...and avoid having to waste a feat on PBShot. I also get free Weapon Focus: Longbow.
3rd level - Ignore Zen Archery, I don't have the stats for it. I also get free Point Blank Mastery.
As you can see it's worth a 4 level dip into Zen Archer which leaves me with 7 levels in Lore Warden. I become excelent at 5ft and 10ft threatening and I'll have Step Up to make their life miserable and with Zen Archer I'm now able to do plenty of damage while staying in the back if needed.
Both archetypes lose Evasion, Zen Archer loses Still Mind. Which archetype would you take?
My stats so far are:
Str: 16 (racial +2 included)
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int: 13 (qualify for Imp Disarm)
Wis: 10
Cha: 12 (+1 at 4th level to qualify for Eldritch Heritage)
|
|
I think it really depends on how often you expect to need to use a bow.
I would personally probably go with Monk of the Sacred Mountain to become more effective at defense. And if you want to have better unarmed strike damage, Monastic Legacy requires still mind. And two or three monk levels as opposed to four means better weapon training progression.
But if you want to focus somewhat on fighting with ranged weapons, Zen Archer is definitely the way to go.
Thanks for your input. I was off a little on the Zen archer but the site was down yesterday when I tried to edit it. I would only need a 2 level dip in Zen Archer for the Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Weapon Focus: Composite Longbow, and Perfect Strike (which gives me 2 uses a day or at level 10, 2 Zen & 8 Lore Warden, I would have 4 uses a day).
If I wanted to not provoke when shooting a bow I'd dip 3rd level, but I'm more than capable of fighting in melee so I don't think I really need Point Blank Mastery. 4th level dip doesn't really give me much to really matter.
I'm also no sure how I feel about the Monastic Legacy feat. It bumps my unarmed strike damage from 1d6 to 1d8 at 10th level (2 monk levels + (8 lore warden levels / 2) = treated as a 6th level monk for unarmed strike)
I do have access to the Wizard spell list, without having to UMD wands, so I can easily use Gravity Bow & Enlarge Person (buy large arrows and I'm shooting 3d6+3 per arrow). Alternatively, I have access to lots of great melee buffs from the Wizard list also. Not sure how useful I'd be at range without all the free Zen Archer feats.
MotSM I've got the two bonus feats, which I could get Combat Reflexes and Dodge, and in place of Evasion I get +1AC natural armor bonus and free Toughness feat. Which with Zen Archer my bonus feats are tied up getting Precise Shot and Rapid Shot.
Anyone else care to suggest which Archetype I should dip 2 levels in? Zen Archer or Monk of the Sacred Mountain?
|
|
Also, if you are intending to switch hit, you might want to look at the Far Strike Monk as an alternative to the Zen Archer. You get several of the same bonus feats, but you get an additional bonus feat of quick draw at level 1. This will let you quickly switch between ranged and polearm without needing to drop a weapon.
|
|
Will you mostly fight archery style, or will you mostly fight with a polearm? It usually works best to commit mostly to one or t'other. Although switch hitting is a thing, where you can do both but aren't quite as good at either as is a specialist. What's your objective?
Main objective is to be able to use AoO's to get strikes on advancing enemies and to UMD (or 100% success on Wizard wands) buffs on myself with my standard action. If I went MotSM, instead of whipping a bow out I could fall back on casting 2nd-4th level spells from scrolls with no issue (Thanks to Arcane Training) to fight at range. I believe 2 prestige gives you 4-5 Scorching Rays on 1 scroll, could do likewise with other spells.
I mainly want to focus on using my Reach weapon though I think, like a Reach Cleric. Backing off with a 5ft step or acrobatics check and using my standard to use wands or scrolls. Then getting AoO's from my Reach weapon and Combat Reflexes. Grabbing an Improved Familiar I've get another standard per turn to UMD a wand to buff myself or allies.
I also want to focus on Disarming unarmed, taking the -4 penalty, to grab the enemies weapon and either drop it in my square so they can't pick it up or 5ft back and later toss it towards my team. The Lore Warden gives a little boost to combat maneuvers and by 7th level the Lore Warden bonuses negate the -4 penalty to "snatch" the weapon from the enemy.
Thats my main focus I think. Reach combat with a familiar and UMD focus for buffs and ranged combat if forced to.