| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
It is about whether or not it is acceptable to automatically assume that police killings are motivated by racism.
Given that young black men are 210% more likely to be shot dead by police then whites, I would say it would be criminally negligent not to question race as a motivating factor in police killings.
http://www.propublica.org/article/deadly-force-in-black-and-white
It is about whether or not it is acceptable to automatically assume that police killings are motivated by racism.
Given that young black men are 210% more likely to be shot dead by police then whites, I would say it would be criminally negligent not to question race as a motivating factor in police killings.
http://www.propublica.org/article/deadly-force-in-black-and-white
I had a post saying that that wasn't that bad, that given how much more often black males are involved in criminal activity it was probably inevitable...
Then i realized you misplaced a decimal point.
21 times greater is 2,100%
| 7 people marked this as a favorite. |
I hate to pull this particular card, but as a mostly life long new yorker, you're in the wrong here. Staten Island has had issues with heavy handed enforcement with respect to minor crime from police FOR YEARS, and while I do think race plays a role here, it pales in comparison to how that particular neighborhood is patroled. Note that they got the guy selling loosies in front of a store in...I do agree that there is a high number motivated by racism. I just don't believe that racism is the default answer to shootings, and many people do, even after proof is shown otherwise.OK, next question: granted that it is less than 100%, what percentage of police shootings motivated by racism is acceptable to you? I think that's what the source of strife is here -- most people would answer "zero" rather than merely "any is okay because we know it's not 100%."This isn't about whether or police shootings motivated by racism is acceptable. It is about whether or not it is acceptable to automatically assume that police killings are motivated by racism.
Take the case in New York with Eric Garner. Looked like a combination of incompetence and tempers flaring up due to the fact that the cop and the suspect had a history, and not a pleasant one. But unless somehow the black supervisor on the scene was somehow a race traitor, the death was not because he was black.
BTW: You want a conspiracy theory? I got one, and I don't think it's too far-fetched: Garner's legal issues, and the reason he knew that particular cop, were related to not paying cigarette taxes. The mayor of NYC loves himself some taxes. The people who elected him, the same people who would be part of the grand jury pool, elected a man who campaigned on raising taxes.
Is it just me, or does this sound like a "Business man didn't pay the money we wanted him to pay. Sure was a tragic 'accident' what happened to him. If only he had paid, that could have been avoided."
EXACTLY.
My mom lived in Crown Heights (actually still does) in the 80's and 90's and that neighborhood was ROUGH. Drug dealers and other a-holes literally plied their trade right in front of my mom's building and in front of the bodega across the street.
Most of the people in that neighborhood were working stiffs, my mom included and the people there were sick of this crap and the violence and called the police on these guys frequently.
Guess what? The cops either never showed up or would show up some time later. Sometimes even hours later. this was the pattern with them.
As soon as some white people moved into the neighborhood all of that started to change. All of a sudden the patrol cars started to come around more often and the neighborhood felt safer. And because it felt safer more white people moved in. And then there was a bigger police presence and the neighborhood got safer.
Now my mom's neighborhood is gentrified. Racist white people look at that and say "If they couldn't clean up their own neighborhood they don't deserve it" (and yes I've actually heard someone say this) and they willfully ignore the reality of the actual situation. I don't think it's the fault of the whites who moved into my mom's neighborhood seeking lower rent but they don't quite realize the extent of what their unseen privilege buys them either.
And the cops? They do tend go after the easy targets (not always though). Ive literally seen these guys go after two or three black / brown guys at the W4th b-ball court area for drinking a beverage out of a brown bag (in this instance it wasn't even an alcoholic beverage and they were made to dump it out) while ignoring the obviously drunken white frat boys across the street.
See the thing is, people think that black and brown people and a few white people who actually pay attention and know whats up are making all of this stuff up. They refuse to take any word of abuse or poor behavior from the police as anything other than black and brown people complaining and lying.
Now my mom's neighborhood is gentrified. Racist white people look at that and say "If they couldn't clean up their own neighborhood they don't deserve it" (and yes I've actually heard someone say this) and they willfully ignore the reality of the actual situation. I don't think it's the fault of the whites who moved into my mom's neighborhood seeking lower rent but they don't quite realize the extent of what their unseen privilege buys them either..
truth.
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
My experience with police forces in the US follows.
My opinion:
When you're polite to an officer, they're polite to you. 1% of the time this isn't true.
When you're belligerent with an officer, they're belligerent with you. 99% of the time this is true.
That is highly dependent on race, geography, and how clean cut one looks. A lot of the time they will come at you belligerently from the start if you live in a shitty area and dress baggy.
What some Americans (and internationals) are calling fear of the police, I call respect for authority (which I have).
I respect authority when I can trust them.
Simple rules, from my point of view:
If an officer engages you, be polite and respectful.
Sure. I'll politely ask if I am being detained, and if so for what reason. If I am not being detained, I will politely ask the officer to stop taking to me.
If an officer issues a directive, follow it.
That depends highly on the directive.
When an officer says, "Hands up!" don't start walking toward them! Put you hands up and be quiet.
Fine.
When an officer asks for ID, don't invoke the Constitution or Patrick Henry, just show them your ID.
Absolutely not. In my state, I am not required to display ID to a police officer upon request. In fact, I have no legal obligation to identify myself to a police officer at all. As such, I will not be providing so much as my name to the police, much less ID.
When you've broken the law, no matter how trivial or what circumstances you believe mitigate your offense, be contrite and respectful--that doesn't mean you have to admit you did or didn't do anything, but don't be deliberately stupid.
Should go without saying.
When an officer tells you to calm down, or stop cursing at them, calm down and shut up: the officer's demand was explicit and black-and-white; there is absolutely zero chance that they actually meant for you to teach them all the profanities you know, and in as loud a voice as possible.
I prefer quiet noncompliance within the limits of state and local law, anyway.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
A lot of [fairly sarcastic, but sometimes sincere] incredulity regarding my previous post: this is why I wrote 'my experience' and 'my opinion'.
I don't think there is anything seriously wrong with your opinion and your experience is what it is but it does come off as 'Advice for white people, by white people'
While it's certainly good to not freak out when dealing with cops and also to have respect for authority (even if that respect is more the fear based respect you would give to say, a potentially rabid animal)a lot of times when you are black in the U.S. that shit doesn't even mean anything in regards to protecting you.
Like, say, when some cops jump you from behind and crack your skull open before beating you half to death without ever saying anything or interacting with you in anyway(personal experience).
In that case the only reaction you can even have is to spray blood everywhere.
It also comes off as "It must be black people's fault. If they behaved properly, cops wouldn't have to beat them and shoot them."
Andrew may not have meant that, but in response to a discussion about cop violence towards black people, it's hard to read it otherwise.
True, but I am giving him the benefit of doubt. I have seen his posts else where and he seems a very smart and reasonable person. I am taking it as him just telling his own personal (undoubtedly white) experience.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
And if you spray blood on their uniforms, they'll make you answer for that too, apparently. Unless that destruction through bleeding on their uniforms is the excuse they will use to explain why they jumped you.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
And if you spray blood on their uniforms, they'll make you answer for that too, apparently. Unless that destruction through bleeding on their uniforms is the excuse they will use to explain why they jumped you.
Well, in my case they didn't arrest me or charge me with anything.
Official explanation was it was a case of mistaken identity, though the suspect they were after and I looked literally nothing alike and it wasn't like it was a case where they were chasing someone and got confused who was who.
They literally just saw me jogging down the street and were like "Hey, isn't that that robbery suspect?"
No, no I am not you psychotic dicks.
|
It's purely my experience; and I suppose it's advice that I personally follow.
I'll be the first to admit that no instance in my life has ever put me in a position to ever need to follow that advice.
I've never experienced or personally witnessed (obviously, I'm not counting videos on the news, etc.) anything remotely resembling police brutality or abuse of authority (by law enforcement), and I've never met anyone who themselves personally witnessed or experienced the same--I'm not trying to imply that it doesn't happen, only to indicate that I have a very, very limited frame of reference.
With this in mind, I can have an opinion but I can't contextualize that opinion or qualify it: I never meant anyone to understand that I believe the victims of police violence or abuse of authority caused their own problems.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Pardon the interruption...
[Conversation with Young Black Teamster with whom I've been discussing politics at work]
Me: Hey, you get down to any of the protests, yet?
YBT: Nah. I want to, but, I haven't had a chance. Man, f+%* the p...
Me: Yeah, lissen to me, f+$& all that, politics and shiznit. Lissen: I went to one of the protests and I now have a hawt New York schoolteacher girlfriend. Now, look, if two middle-aged white people can get together at these protests, what do you think's gonna happen when a young black stud like you shows up?
YBT: Yeah, yeah, I'll clean up!
Me: Yeah, you'll get all the pussy.
YBT: That's right! I'm goin' to the protests! I'm gonna get all the pussy!
Man, this organizing shiznit is easy.
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
The issue is that your advice carries with it two potential conclusions.
1) If you're beat by police, you didn't follow the advice, therefore you created the situation where police had to beat you.
2) Police are violent individuals and must be dealt with using extreme caution.
Let's assume you didn't intend the first one, since it's victim blaming. The second option is still disturbing and a major reason why a lot of people have issues with how police handle themselves.
In another thread, someone pointed out that Frank Serpico experienced death threats and was essentially hung out to dry by his fellow officers, putting his life in danger, because he had turned whistleblower on fellow officers who had broken the law. This was given as an example of why officers should not be held to a standard where they bust their brothers for doing wrong.
It's a similar argument, cops are so bad, it's better to just let them be in control, otherwise they will hurt you.
I disagree, cops need to be held to a higher standard.
|
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
OK, so I saw my last post was deleted. I'm not surprised. I was angry when I wrote it - I still am. I'm furious. I wrote that Fergurg, and people like him, are delusional.
I get why my post was deleted. I don't agree with it, but I expected it. However, a few posts beyond that, I find this:
BTW: You want a conspiracy theory? I got one, and I don't think it's too far-fetched: Garner's legal issues, and the reason he knew that particular cop, were related to not paying cigarette taxes. The mayor of NYC loves himself some taxes. The people who elected him, the same people who would be part of the grand jury pool, elected a man who campaigned on raising taxes.
Is it just me, or does this sound like a "Business man didn't pay the money we wanted him to pay. Sure was a tragic 'accident' what happened to him. If only he had paid, that could have been avoided."
And this is precisely what I'm talking about. Our slavish devotion to an abstract notion of 'civility' (toward other white males who have none for anyone else) has sincerely hampered our position. Unless you catch someone organizing a cross-burning, you can bet calling a racist racist is going to get stamped down hard.
Yet here is someone insinuating that the mayor, who has a black family - who has been touched directly by the brutality and racism of the NYPD - is responsible for the death of an innocent man over TAXES. Here is somebody who has done nothing but try to justify the murder of unarmed black citizens as legitimate police work, now using those same people he denigrated as pawns for some right-wing fantasy about Tax Collecting Death Squads.
What a vile, racist and ridiculous thing to say. What a vile, racist, and delusional position to hold. Fegurg is a very disturbed individual with disturbing views. Yet my post is the 'inflammatory' one for pointing that out?
My guess is this will probably be deleted, too. Something might happen to my account - a temporary suspension or something so I can "calm down" or whatever. But we whites who for too long placed the feelings of racists in our midst above the lives and justice for those who didn't look like us - we are just as responsible for these statistics as the "I Am Darren Wilson" crowd. Every time we legitimized these people, every time we refused to call them what they are, every time we got up on the proverbial stage and shook hands and acted like The Loyal Opposition with murderers we perpetuated that system. There is blood on all of our hands now.
I'm done treating people with respect whose entire existence is one dedicated to the oppression and murder of others. I'll save my respect for their victims.
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
The time to worry about your rights is when you're safe. Until things change significantly, when you're dealing with a cop, worry about not getting shot. (Especially if you're not caucasian.)
Pretty much this.
I've told my son a few simple things.
The police are not your friends. They are not there to help you. Because they deal with criminals who mostly look like you? To them youre just another criminal. If you can avoid them STAY AWAY.
If you are confronted. Be calm. be polite and comply.
If they want you to jump up and down on one leg and recite the our father? Comply.
If they want you to lay face down on the dirty sidewalk with your arms spread out! Comply.
Comply. Comply. Comply.
Because if you do not? THEY WILL KILL YOU. and then say it was your fault because you have no true right to exist as a human being. And unfortunately most of this country agrees with them.
So Swallow your pride. Comply and Live.
I've been telling him this since he was 10. He's going to be 13 in a few weeks. The amount of pure HATRED I feel for my countrymen and this country in general because I have to prepare him like this at such a young age is maddening. But at the end of the day I'd rather have him humiliated, but home and alive than proud and in a graveyard in a pine box.
I know that there are some of you who are going to be quick to say I'm an awful parent or am teaching him hatred. Some of you have voiced this before. To you I'm going to say one thing: When you are raising a young black male in this country and have also grown up as a young black male in this country THEN MAYBE I'll take seriously anything that you have to say. IF not Then youre just talking about a bunch of things that you know next to NOTHING about.
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
I see 2 groups. Group 1 says "the victims shouldn't have to do anything, and saying they should do anything is victim blaming" where as group 2 is more concerned with keeping people alive than they are with deciding who is to blame when people get killed. Group 1 might be "right" but I can't help but think I side more with group 2.
The time to worry about your rights is when you're safe. Until things change significantly, when you're dealing with a cop, worry about not getting shot. (Especially if you're not caucasian.)
There's two parts to this.
1) In the situation
2) Talking about it after the fact
Right now, in this thread, we are not "in the situation". We are "talking about it after the fact". Hypothetical situation:
I'm at a movie theater, I pick my seat.
Guy comes along, pulls a gun and demands my seat.
Is it the smart thing to comply? Sure.
Does it make it my fault if I get shot for refusing? No.
The man with the gun is making the choice to shoot me. I am not FORCING him to do so. I am not using mind control, nor physical force.
The problem with focusing on what was "smart" for me is that it reduces the conversation to focusing on my actions, instead of how messed up it is for someone to pull a gun on me just because they want my theater seat. My actions should not be the focus of the conversation AFTER THE FACT. The actions and behavior of the gunman should be the focus.
People have rights. We acknowledge that in this country. We even like to talk about how those rights are what make this country great. Therefore, when people defend those rights, or demand that those rights be respected (such as not complying with an officer who is acting like a jerk), we need to recognize that those rights are being trampled and defend them.
When confronted with an angry police officer, should a citizen comply? Yes.
Their non-compliance isn't the cause of the problem though. The cause of the problem is the angry police officer who will resort to violence at the mere imagining of resistance.
I don't want to live in a country where law enforcement is entitled to shoot you just because you aren't complying fast enough or precisely enough for their personal taste.
Talk about the root of the problem. Focus on that.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
It's purely my experience; and I suppose it's advice that I personally follow.
I'll be the first to admit that no instance in my life has ever put me in a position to ever need to follow that advice.
I've never experienced or personally witnessed (obviously, I'm not counting videos on the news, etc.) anything remotely resembling police brutality or abuse of authority (by law enforcement), and I've never met anyone who themselves personally witnessed or experienced the same--I'm not trying to imply that it doesn't happen, only to indicate that I have a very, very limited frame of reference.
With this in mind, I can have an opinion but I can't contextualize that opinion or qualify it: I never meant anyone to understand that I believe the victims of police violence or abuse of authority caused their own problems.
It's all good, I kinda assumed this was the case. A lot of times the less direct experience with something we humans have the more apparent the 'right' solution to the problem seems.
It's only once you've had direct experience with the problem you realize how shitty the situation actually is and that it's more of a issue of coping with ludicrous bullshit, than sailing through it because you have found the right answer.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
The time to worry about your rights is when you're safe. Until things change significantly, when you're dealing with a cop, worry about not getting shot. (Especially if you're not caucasian.)Pretty much this.
I've told my son a few simple things.
The police are not your friends. They are not there to help you. Because they deal with criminals who mostly look like you? To them youre just another criminal. If you can avoid them STAY AWAY.
If you are confronted. Be calm. be polite and comply.
If they want you to jump up and down on one leg and recite the our father? Comply.
If they want you to lay face down on the dirty sidewalk with your arms spread out! Comply.
Comply. Comply. Comply.
Because if you do not? THEY WILL KILL YOU. and then say it was your fault because you have no true right to exist as a human being. And unfortunately most of this country agrees with them.
So Swallow your pride. Comply and Live.
I've been telling him this since he was 10. He's going to be 13 in a few weeks. The amount of pure HATRED I feel for my countrymen and this country in general because I have to prepare him like this at such a young age is maddening. But at the end of the day I'd rather have him humiliated, but home and alive than proud and in a graveyard in a pine box.
I know that there are some of you who are going to be quick to say I'm an awful parent or am teaching him hatred. Some of you have voiced this before. To you I'm going to say one thing: When you are raising a young black male in this country and have also grown up as a young black male in this country THEN MAYBE I'll take seriously anything that you have to say. IF not Then youre just talking about a bunch of things that you know next to NOTHING about.
Nah, you aren't an awful parent, you're teaching him what will give him the best chance to survive.
What is awful is that that is the lesson he needs to learn.
OK, so I saw my last post was deleted. I'm not surprised. I was angry when I wrote it - I still am. I'm furious. I wrote that Fergurg, and people like him, are delusional.
I get why my post was deleted. I don't agree with it, but I expected it. However, a few posts beyond that, I find this:
BTW: You want a conspiracy theory? I got one, and I don't think it's too far-fetched: Garner's legal issues, and the reason he knew that particular cop, were related to not paying cigarette taxes. The mayor of NYC loves himself some taxes. The people who elected him, the same people who would be part of the grand jury pool, elected a man who campaigned on raising taxes.
Is it just me, or does this sound like a "Business man didn't pay the money we wanted him to pay. Sure was a tragic 'accident' what happened to him. If only he had paid, that could have been avoided."
And this is precisely what I'm talking about. Our slavish devotion to an abstract notion of 'civility' (toward other white males who have none for anyone else) has sincerely hampered our position. Unless you catch someone organizing a cross-burning, you can bet calling a racist racist is going to get stamped down hard.
Yet here is someone insinuating that the mayor, who has a black family - who has been touched directly by the brutality and racism of the NYPD - is responsible for the death of an innocent man over TAXES. Here is somebody who has done nothing but try to justify the murder of unarmed black citizens as legitimate police work, now using those same people he denigrated as pawns for some right-wing fantasy about Tax Collecting Death Squads.
What a vile, racist and ridiculous thing to say. What a vile, racist, and delusional position to hold. Fegurg is a very disturbed individual with disturbing views. Yet my post is the 'inflammatory' one for pointing that out?
My guess is this will probably be deleted, too. Something might happen to my account - a temporary suspension or something so I can...
I agree with much of what you say, but not how it was said.
The time to worry about your rights is when you're safe. Until things change significantly, when you're dealing with a cop, worry about not getting shot. (Especially if you're not caucasian.)Pretty much this.
I've told my son a few simple things.
The police are not your friends. They are not there to help you. Because they deal with criminals who mostly look like you? To them youre just another criminal. If you can avoid them STAY AWAY.
If you are confronted. Be calm. be polite and comply.
If they want you to jump up and down on one leg and recite the our father? Comply.
If they want you to lay face down on the dirty sidewalk with your arms spread out! Comply.
Comply. Comply. Comply.
Because if you do not? THEY WILL KILL YOU. and then say it was your fault because you have no true right to exist as a human being. And unfortunately most of this country agrees with them.
So Swallow your pride. Comply and Live.
I've been telling him this since he was 10. He's going to be 13 in a few weeks. The amount of pure HATRED I feel for my countrymen and this country in general because I have to prepare him like this at such a young age is maddening. But at the end of the day I'd rather have him humiliated, but home and alive than proud and in a graveyard in a pine box.
I know that there are some of you who are going to be quick to say I'm an awful parent or am teaching him hatred. Some of you have voiced this before. To you I'm going to say one thing: When you are raising a young black male in this country and have also grown up as a young black male in this country THEN MAYBE I'll take seriously anything that you have to say. IF not Then youre just talking about a bunch of things that you know next to NOTHING about.
you aren't a bad parent. I'm glad you had this conversation with your son. It is of the utmost importance. I agree with much of what you say. However, I would not recite it verbatim to my son, Daughter, niece or nephew.
|
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Considering that DeBlassio is rapidly losing the respect of the NYPD with his public statements about the situation, I'd say the whole conspiracy theory things is about as ridiculous a statement I've heard in a while. He was already on shaky ground with them based on his statements when he was running for the office. There is no love between the mayor's office and the police union.
NY is not going to be a fun place while they deal with the logical outcome of twenty years of gentrification and, even before 9/11, a seriously concentrated assault on crime by NYPD, with, as I'm sure FreeholdDM can tell you, a metric assload of misconduct, abuse, and outright murder. The blowback is coming at a time we're already sensitive to police excess, so I would almost feel bad for the NYPD, if it weren't for them bringing much of this on themselves for the way they've acted the last twenty years.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
I see 2 groups. Group 1 says "the victims shouldn't have to do anything, and saying they should do anything is victim blaming" where as group 2 is more concerned with keeping people alive than they are with deciding who is to blame when people get killed. Group 1 might be "right" but I can't help but think I side more with group 2.
The time to worry about your rights is when you're safe. Until things change significantly, when you're dealing with a cop, worry about not getting shot. (Especially if you're not caucasian.)
Damn strait. Someone ought to tell Rosa Parks to get in the back of the bus where its safe!
If someone doesn't stand up for their rights it will NEVER change significantly.
I would just like to interject that respect is EARNED not given. I don't respect the office, the title, the badge, the Law, the uniform or anything else that can be bought or sold. As far as I'm concerned, the rejection of authority granted by god or the Crown was the best reason the US fought the Revolutionary War.
In my everyday dealings with people I try to treat everyone with dignity and respect. The guy mopping the floor gets the same treatment as the police or the guy in the fancy suit.
Police wield vast amounts of legal power and weaponry, but that is all. They don't have god, morality, history, or reputation on their side. If a cop gives you an order that they are not legally permitted to give*, you have no responsibility to obey it. In fact, out of respect for the people who have fought and died for our rights and freedoms, I would say the patriotic thing would be to NOT tolerate police abuse of power.
Disobeying the police can and does have tragic consequences, but it often has legal and moral backing.
*You better be 100% sure about the legality, and many issues are not clear cut.
EDIT: BNW you are correct, a young black male is 2,100% more likely to be fatily shot then their white counterparts. I first thought 2,100% when I wrote the post, but just kind of couldn't believe it. I thought I must have been mistaken, I must have messed up somehow, but damn.
Here are some more shocking statistics:
US statistics about race
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
But you know what Rosa Parks didn't do? She didn't yell, "Burn this b~*$* down!"
What she did say was, "It was not pre-arranged. It just happened that the driver made a demand and I just didn't feel like obeying his demand."
So what she did was more along the lines of not getting out of the street while holding some cheap cigars...
Oh, wait.
I guess the bus driver should have shot her, right?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Strong words
While I don't disagree, I feel that there is a time and place. Paizo has been kind enough to host our conversation here, and as their guests, it is only right that while under their roof, we adhere to their rules. What I might say in Paizo's store or message boards is different then what I might say on the street in front.
I would also say that talking to people on the internet is of very limited value when trying to change things, although I admit I don't have a clue what the best way to enact positive change really is.
I have found that shutting down peoples ideas or insulting them (saying this in general not toward you) generally makes people more entrenched and less open minded. If you want to influence or enlighten someone, you generally have to connect with them, and the easiest way is to listen to their viewpoint first. Yeah, sometimes you have to sit through some ignorant BS, but at least it gives you a frame of reference for the conversation. You can't change someones mind for them, but you can help them change it themselves.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Let's not conflate Brown and Parks. Those are two completely different situations.
US statistics about race
All of those are, I think, quite telling -- with the exception of "75% of white Americans have only white friends." That looks damning on the surface of it, until you also read that "65% of black Americans reported only having black friends." The difference isn't really statistically-significant, at that point.
It's still a very sad statistic, but it's the only one that's not clearly a direct result of bias against blacks.
All the others DO point directly at that bias, however.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Not being snarky, genuine question. Since you have your hatred of your fellow countrymen and this country, to the point where you dismiss the views of everybody that is not your race, why do you...The time to worry about your rights is when you're safe. Until things change significantly, when you're dealing with a cop, worry about not getting shot. (Especially if you're not caucasian.)Pretty much this.
I've told my son a few simple things.
The police are not your friends. They are not there to help you. Because they deal with criminals who mostly look like you? To them youre just another criminal. If you can avoid them STAY AWAY.
If you are confronted. Be calm. be polite and comply.
If they want you to jump up and down on one leg and recite the our father? Comply.
If they want you to lay face down on the dirty sidewalk with your arms spread out! Comply.
Comply. Comply. Comply.
Because if you do not? THEY WILL KILL YOU. and then say it was your fault because you have no true right to exist as a human being. And unfortunately most of this country agrees with them.
So Swallow your pride. Comply and Live.
I've been telling him this since he was 10. He's going to be 13 in a few weeks. The amount of pure HATRED I feel for my countrymen and this country in general because I have to prepare him like this at such a young age is maddening. But at the end of the day I'd rather have him humiliated, but home and alive than proud and in a graveyard in a pine box.
I know that there are some of you who are going to be quick to say I'm an awful parent or am teaching him hatred. Some of you have voiced this before. To you I'm going to say one thing: When you are raising a young black male in this country and have also grown up as a young black male in this country THEN MAYBE I'll take seriously anything that you have to say. IF not Then youre just talking about a bunch of things that you know next to NOTHING about.
Fergurg, I believe I have been patient with you, but your implications, if not your words and tone, are potentially out of line here.
Answer me this seriously. And take time to consider before you respond.
Are you seriously saying "if you don't like it, leave the country? "
Strong wordsWhile I don't disagree, I feel that there is a time and place. Paizo has been kind enough to host our conversation here, and as their guests, it is only right that while under their roof, we adhere to their rules. What I might say in Paizo's store or message boards is different then what I might say on the street in front.
I would also say that talking to people on the internet is of very limited value when trying to change things, although I admit I don't have a clue what the best way to enact positive change really is.
I have found that shutting down peoples ideas or insulting them (saying this in general not toward you) generally makes people more entrenched and less open minded. If you want to influence or enlighten someone, you generally have to connect with them, and the easiest way is to listen to their viewpoint first. Yeah, sometimes you have to sit through some ignorant BS, but at least it gives you a frame of reference for the conversation. You can't change someones mind for them, but you can help them change it themselves.
Well said.
Let's not conflate Brown and Parks. Those are two completely different situations.Uh oh. The Apocalypse has come! I agree with Freehold DM about something.
a potential stopped clocks situation, to be sure.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Only if she was running at the bus driver, trying to take his gun.But you know what Rosa Parks didn't do? She didn't yell, "Burn this b~*$* down!"What she did say was, "It was not pre-arranged. It just happened that the driver made a demand and I just didn't feel like obeying his demand."
So what she did was more along the lines of not getting out of the street while holding some cheap cigars...
Oh, wait.
I guess the bus driver should have shot her, right?
people forget that the bus driver was in his tights at the time to physically and roughly remove her from the bus. If it was Robert Parks instead of Rosa, that may well have happened.
The time to worry about your rights is when you're safe. Until things change significantly, when you're dealing with a cop, worry about not getting shot. (Especially if you're not caucasian.)
This leads to a situation where all rights can be stripped simply by keeping people unsafe, and the perpetrators are protected by people saying they shouldn't try to claim their rights.
Rights are meaningless if you are shot if you try to claim them.
Looooooool typos.
That driver did have a super villainous look to him.