Evil cleric using a protection from evil wand?


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Zhayne wrote:


That's utterly ridiculous and a VERY good reason not to play in Golarion, where Saturday Morning Cartoon morality runs rampant.

Redicuous or not, this is how Golarion is. This is also how Greyhawk and Faerun worked. Your home game may be different, but when you are talking to a random person on the boards, this is the assumption. Pretending that it is otherwise and that everyone should know this is a recipe for point-less arguments and frustration.

Zhayne wrote:


Since what actions are and aren't evil is, by definition, subjective (and...

This is not even accepted as truth in the real world. A substantial number of people will argue that good is what God wills, and is objective. Others might argue that good is that which minimizes suffering, and is thus mesurable and objective.

The point of making alignment objective in Golarion is to reduce arguments at the table by letting the DM say "This is just how it works here. He is wearing his Evil pants."


Knight Magenta wrote:


Objective does not mean that "there is no debate over it on the boards." It means that there is no debate over it in character. A paladin can tell you, with absolute certainty, that a particular person, place or thing is Evil. That's objective.

Almost. Detect evil is not quite so cut and dried.

If a good cleric of a [Good] god with an aura of good has actively evil intentions while being scanned by detect evil he will detect as evil.

Quote:
Creatures with actively evil intents count as evil creatures for the purpose of this spell.

Detect evil does not tell you whether someone is evil or not, just that they are either evil, have an evil subtype, or have actively evil intentions.

Also there are a ton of ways to hide an evil alignment from detection.

In character it is really hard to objectively know something is evil as opposed to just probably evil.

Objectively the evil exists in the game, there can be plenty of debate over evil in character though.


Magic Items, about wands (Spell Trigger items):

Quote:
Spell Trigger: Spell trigger activation is similar to spell completion, but it's even simpler. No gestures or spell finishing is needed, just a special knowledge of spellcasting that an appropriate character would know, and a single word that must be spoken. Spell trigger items can be used by anyone whose class can cast the corresponding spell. This is the case even for a character who can't actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin. The user must still determine what spell is stored in the item before she can activate it. Activating a spell trigger item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.


Evil deities, way more than good deities, should be all on board with 'the ends justifies the means'.

Using all tools at your disposal, be they aligned with good or evil, to accomplish your evil goals is practically built in to the alignment.

It's the good guys that have to worry about the moral issues regarding using evil means to do greater good.


Voadam wrote:
Knight Magenta wrote:


Objective does not mean that "there is no debate over it on the boards." It means that there is no debate over it in character. A paladin can tell you, with absolute certainty, that a particular person, place or thing is Evil. That's objective.

Almost. Detect evil is not quite so cut and dried.

If a good cleric of a [Good] god with an aura of good has actively evil intentions while being scanned by detect evil he will detect as evil.

Quote:
Creatures with actively evil intents count as evil creatures for the purpose of this spell.

Detect evil does not tell you whether someone is evil or not, just that they are either evil, have an evil subtype, or have actively evil intentions.

Also there are a ton of ways to hide an evil alignment from detection.

In character it is really hard to objectively know something is evil as opposed to just probably evil.

Objectively the evil exists in the game, there can be plenty of debate over evil in character though.

Well sure, you can trick people and the like. I just meant that Evil is a measurable quantity, like temperature or peanuts. It is a thing that exists. You could argue about whether a creature is Evil or just looks evil but no-one sane will say "well the devil thinks it is good!" Not even the devil.


shadowkras wrote:

Magic Items, about wands (Spell Trigger items):

Quote:
Spell Trigger: Spell trigger activation is similar to spell completion, but it's even simpler. No gestures or spell finishing is needed, just a special knowledge of spellcasting that an appropriate character would know, and a single word that must be spoken. Spell trigger items can be used by anyone whose class can cast the corresponding spell. This is the case even for a character who can't actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin. The user must still determine what spell is stored in the item before she can activate it. Activating a spell trigger item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

The Cleric class can cast Protection from Evil, even if that specific Cleric can't due to their Deity choice. It's not about the capacity to cast the spell, it's about the potential; the Cleric understands the magical process of casting the spell, even if trying to do so would auto-fizzle. He can still prepare the spell and can still attempt to cast it and waste his action. The Wand, however, doesn't care if you can actually cast the spell at the moment; it is concerned with whether you have knowledge of the principal of casting this kind of spell.

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