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As I read it, witch gets hexes at certain levels. At 1st level, only minor hexes can be selected.
At 10th level a witch can select major hexes whenever they would be able to get a new hex.
If I get to 10th level, can I retrain all the old hexes for new major hexes? Obviously, some need prerequisite hexes, so can't swap those. At 10th level, I meet the requirements to take all major hexes, as I read it.
In terms of power levels, the hexes aren't always better at the major level Vs the minor level. Some of the low level ones are downright over powered at times(slumber, for example). It's true that there is one feat to gain more hexes (extra hex). The feat does not require minor or major hexes, just ones per your level.
Not sure if its intended to work like this, so I'm asking, is it?
Is it reasonable for my PC to have all their hexes retrained for major hexes when I reach 10th level? If I build the character from scratch at 10th level, so there's no retraining, is it more or less reasonable?
From my reading, hex, major hex, and grand hex, are all separate class features, as each of them are listed under separate class feature entries, instead of being listed under one title. Following that, you could only retrain a hex to a hex, or a major hex to a major hex, or a grand to another grad.
Amrel's reading is the same as mine.
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From my reading, hex, major hex, and grand hex, are all separate class features, as each of them are listed under separate class feature entries, instead of being listed under one title. Following that, you could only retrain a hex to a hex, or a major hex to a major hex, or a grand to another grad.
Not quite the case. They are certainly differ class features, but they don't interact the way you say:
Hex
hexes, that grant them powers or weaken foes. At 1st
level, a witch gains one hex of her choice. She gains an
additional hex at 2nd level and for every 2 levels attained
after 2nd level, as noted on Table 2–10. A witch cannot
select an individual hex more than once.
Major Hex
thereafter, a witch can choose one of the following major
hexes whenever she could select a new hex.
Grand Hex
thereafter, a witch can choose one of the following grand
hexes whenever she could select a new hex.
Note how regular "hex" class feature is the only feature that actually grants hexes. The hex per 2 levels is only granted via the basic hex class feature. Major and Grand hexes are not different hexes when retraining. They are still hex selections.
Grand hex and major hex only grant the option to select their type of hex at a certain level of access. You aren't forced to, and can still take a "lesser" hex at 10th or 18th level.
So the question, is if I'm 10th. Can I retrain the individual hexes I've already obtained? If so, do I have access to the major hex set of options, given I've got this new hex and I'm 10th.
Likewise, if I'm 18th, can I retrain lesser hexes I picked after 10th level and make them major hexes?
And last, does the Extra hex feat grant access to major hexes if I'm 10th? Certainly seems that way.
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From retraining: Retraining a class feature means you lose the old class feature and gain a new one that you could otherwise qualify for at that point in your level advancement. For example, if you want to retrain your paladin's fatigued mercy (which she gained at 3rd level), you can replace it only with another mercy from the 3rd-level list. If at 6th level you learned the sickened mercy (which is on the 3rd-level list), you may replace it with a mercy from the 3rd- or 6th-level list (because you are replacing a 6th-level mercy slot which you spent on a 3rd-level mercy).
So you can only retrain a hex gained at less than 10th with regular hex.
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From retraining: Retraining a class feature means you lose the old class feature and gain a new one that you could otherwise qualify for at that point in your level advancement. For example, if you want to retrain your paladin's fatigued mercy (which she gained at 3rd level), you can replace it only with another mercy from the 3rd-level list. If at 6th level you learned the sickened mercy (which is on the 3rd-level list), you may replace it with a mercy from the 3rd- or 6th-level list (because you are replacing a 6th-level mercy slot which you spent on a 3rd-level mercy).
So you can only retrain a hex gained at less than 10th with regular hex.
I see, thank you. That makes sense.
Anyway, main reason for the topic was to verify I wasn't screwing my witch out of intended advantages.
For the most part, I find the "lesser" hexes to be all around better than the major ones. Major healing and the healing hex, are the ones where I thought I might want to swap a lesser for a major, despite the obvious advantage of having both.
You can. With GM approval, as normal for any retraining.
However, "Unless stated otherwise, retraining costs gp equal to 10 × your level × the number of days required to retrain." Also, "It takes 5 days to retrain one class feature."
So, you have to spend 500 gp of your WBL to "retrain" each single hex into a major hex at 10th level. Also note, you have to meet all the requirements before retraining to the new major hex (including normal hex prerequisites).
Actually level restrictions don't appear to be part of the equation:
http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1gn
So I would say yes. You can retrain a hex into a major hex. But it may be that you may only be able to retrain a hex gained via the extra hex feat into a major hex or grand hex.
You can. With GM approval, as normal for any retraining.
However, "Unless stated otherwise, retraining costs gp equal to 10 × your level × the number of days required to retrain." Also, "It takes 5 days to retrain one class feature."
So, you have to spend 500 gp of your WBL to "retrain" each single hex into a major hex at 10th level. Also note, you have to meet all the requirements before retraining to the new major hex (including normal hex prerequisites).
Incorrect. The Srd says the following "Retraining a class feature means you lose the old class feature and gain a new one that you could otherwise qualify for at that point in your level advancement. For example, if you want to retrain your paladin's fatigued mercy (which she gained at 3rd level), you can replace it only with another mercy from the 3rd-level list." Those lines adequately spell it out.
That FAQ post is ONLY referencing feats. (That being said if you retrained a feat that granted an extra hex you could probably select a higher tier).
Note how regular "hex" class feature is the only feature that actually grants hexes. The hex per 2 levels is only granted via the basic hex class feature. Major and Grand hexes are not different hexes when retraining.
They are though. If they are not separate, then why are they mentioned separately in the retraining rules located here?
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCampaign/campaignSystems/retrain ing.html
It specifically says "Witch: Retrain one hex, major hex, or grand hex."
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Note how regular "hex" class feature is the only feature that actually grants hexes. The hex per 2 levels is only granted via the basic hex class feature. Major and Grand hexes are not different hexes when retraining.They are though. If they are not separate, then why are they mentioned separately in the retraining rules located here?
It specifically says "Witch: Retrain one hex, major hex, or grand hex."
Linkified for you.
Major Hex
Starting at 10th level, and every two levels
thereafter, a witch can choose one of the following major
hexes whenever she could select a new hex.Grand Hex
Starting at 18th level, and every two levels
thereafter, a witch can choose one of the following grand
hexes whenever she could select a new hex.
When you retrain a hex, you select a new hex.
If you have the level, the specific witch rules say the hex you can select could be a major or grand hex.It might be that you can retrain up but not down.
Actually level restrictions don't appear to be part of the equation:
So I would say yes. You can retrain a hex into a major hex. But it may be that you may only be able to retrain a hex gained via the extra hex feat into a major hex or grand hex.
I think this specific trumps general, and the FAQ Seanamal mentions supports this.
/cevah
Note how regular "hex" class feature is the only feature that actually grants hexes. The hex per 2 levels is only granted via the basic hex class feature. Major and Grand hexes are not different hexes when retraining.They are though. If they are not separate, then why are they mentioned separately in the retraining rules located here?
It specifically says "Witch: Retrain one hex, major hex, or grand hex."
Linkified for you.
Major Hex
Starting at 10th level, and every two levels
thereafter, a witch can choose one of the following major
hexes whenever she could select a new hex.Grand Hex
Starting at 18th level, and every two levels
thereafter, a witch can choose one of the following grand
hexes whenever she could select a new hex.When you retrain a hex, you select a new hex.
If you have the level, the specific witch rules say the hex you can select could be a major or grand hex.It might be that you can retrain up but not down.
Actually level restrictions don't appear to be part of the equation:
So I would say yes. You can retrain a hex into a major hex. But it may be that you may only be able to retrain a hex gained via the extra hex feat into a major hex or grand hex.
I think this specific trumps general, and the FAQ Seanamal mentions supports this.
/cevah
You definitely can select a Major or Grand Hex whenever you could otherwise select a new hex however this in no way implies that those things are just hexes (as granted by the hex class feature). If they were all hexes then there would be no need for specific language relating to each one. You can't retrain up or down, you can retrain a major hex, which you can get as a direct result of the major hex class feature, for another major hex (the same goes for grand).
Also specific does trump general, however the FAQ states
Can I retrain a feat to replace it with a feat I didn't qualify for at the level I originally gained that feat?
Yes. As long as the new feat is a valid feat for your current character, you can retrain the old feat and replace it with the new feat.For example, if you are a 3rd-level rogue who took Improved Initiative at 1st level, you can retrain that feat and replace it with Weapon Focus. Even though Weapon Focus has a prerequisite of "base attack bonus +1" (which means you couldn't take it as a 1st-level rogue), it is a valid feat for your current level (3rd), and is therefore a valid choice for retraining.
which is "specifically" applying to feats, and only to feats, and nothing but feats. As there is no FAQ about class features in regards to this, then it is not possible. The only exception (and maybe this is what you were saying) is if you retrain the extra hex feat.
As the FAQ applies ONLY to feats, the rules stating
Retraining a class feature means you lose the old class feature and gain a new one that you could otherwise qualify for at that point in your level advancement.
still apply.
The reason for that FAQ, in case anyone wondered, is because unlike with class features, the feat retraining portion featured no language restricting which feats you could take, UNLIKE with class features.
Reference:
Paladin's Mercy
Sorcerer's Bloodline
Witch's Hex <Major Hex> <Grand Hex>
Rogue's Talents <Advanced-Talents>
Ninja's Tricks <Master-Tricks>
The Paladin's Mercy is a single class feature that states level x chooses from list y.
The Sorcerer's Bloodline is a single class feature that states level x chooses from list y.
The Witch's Hex is a single class feature that states choose a hex.
The Witch's Major Hex and Grand Hex are separate class features that modify the Hex class feature.
The Rogue's Talents is a single class feature that states choose a talent.
The Rogue's Advanced Talents is a separate class features that modify the Rogue Talents class feature.
The Ninja's Tricks is a single class feature that states choose a trick.
The Ninja's Master Tricks is a separate class features that modify the Ninja Tricks class feature.
Lets look when these Witch class features come into play
Level .. Special
1st .. Hex
2nd .. Hex
4th .. Hex
6th .. Hex
8th .. Hex
10th .. Hex, Major hex
12th .. Hex
14th .. Hex
16th .. Hex
18th .. Hex, Grand hex
20th .. Hex
Note that you get your major and grand hexes with the hex class feature, and not with a major hex or grand hex feature.
The Hex class feature has no text that states level X is limited to list Y the way the Mercy is worded. The wording of the major and grand hexes clearly indicate they change the list the hex class feature uses.
When you retrain a hex, I don't see a limit like I see for the Mercy or Bloodline.
The same mechanics applies to Talents and Tricks. The improved ones are gained because a separate class feature modified the base feature.
/cevah