Some background...
We are in a city based game, 3 players: Myself the Slayer, a Ninja and a Bard.
It is a very Role Play based game. Thus why some of my choices are not the most optimized for combat.
We had a 15 point buy but because we were a little underpowered we gained +1 to two different stats at every 4 levels.
The entire games is based in one city, and the caves under it. It is a very social and political however I am the only real front liner.
Race: Human
Ali: We do not use alignment but if I had one it would be Lawful Evil.
Class: Cleaner Archtype Slayer
Str: 20
Dex: 16
Con: 10 (yeah, I know, the only real beatstick of the group with a 10 con.)
Int: 16
Wis: 10
Cha: 7
Traits: Student of Philosophy and Clever Word Play, to cover my horribly charisma.
We currently have about 25K in gear.
I have very high skills due to being Human, having good Int, and from Slayer, so skills are great.
I am built to be amazing at the cleaner aspect: lots of bluff, perception, disguise, survival, diplomacy, Stealth, and intimidate.
My weapon is a Pickaxe, ( grew up as a miner, and we live in a abandoned Dwarven city of all stone and on top of MASSIVE mines, nobody pays attention to the guy with a pick axe)
Combat wise I went the Cornugon Smash/shatter defense/power attack route.
Concept is that I am the orphan of murdered parents, my father was an assassin who failed a mission and they killed him and my mom for it, my whole life is about Vengeance, I am so obsessed with vengeance that I have fallen to complete evil in it's pursuit. However our entire group is in the process of organizing all the crime in the city... (Think if Ghost Rider had the mentality of Punisher)
I am the only person who is built for combat, we have a extremely non-combative Street Entertainer Bard who does not fight at all and a Ninja built on more classic ninja skills instead of combat and is going to go Crimson Assassin.
Here is my problem, I find the class to be very boring.
I finally got my misdirect ability at level 7 of Slayer and am looking for something else.
I have no plan as where to go after level 7.
I can not really afford to lose a ton of skills, I could live with a 4/level class but a 2/level would be pretty hard.
I was looking at Hell Knight but it fits thematically other than the heavy armor, but later that is no big deal thanks to their training.
I really have nothing here guys, any advice will be appreciated.
Feel free to ask for any other info you need to know.
Investigator? Empiricist Investigator? All the talents look pretty fun.
I don't know if you guys get traits or not, but student of philosophy would go well with your stats if you're investing in bluff and diplomacy.
What do you want to do that you are not doing?
wraithstrike wrote: What do you want to do that you are not doing? I just feel that Slayer has no flair, it is probably more the way I built it honestly.
I am a strong smart guy who beats people to death with a pickaxe if they commit a crime against humanity.
I need a more fun gimmick, or tick, or something. Most of the time I sit around and occasionally intimidate someone or beat someone to death if they deserve it.
I want to play off the spirit of vengeance idea more, the track down the "evil" and murder it, and using cleaner abilities, I make it look like what i want.
However I have to say from line capable and not completely tank skills.
Protoman wrote: Investigator? Empiricist Investigator? All the talents look pretty fun.
I don't know if you guys get traits or not, but student of philosophy would go well with your stats if you're investing in bluff and diplomacy.
I looked at Empiricst, and like the flair of it.
I will edit in the traits but yes I have:
Student of Philosophy and Clever Word Play, to cover my horribly charisma.
Whisperknives wrote: Protoman wrote: Investigator? Empiricist Investigator? All the talents look pretty fun.
I don't know if you guys get traits or not, but student of philosophy would go well with your stats if you're investing in bluff and diplomacy.
I looked at Empiricst, and like the flair of it.
I will edit in the traits but yes I have:
Student of Philosophy and Clever Word Play, to cover my horribly charisma. Hmm usually you can't take those two traits as they're both social traits. But if you guys houseruled away that restriction, cool.
Your character sounds like Dexter. Maybe be "tortured" that you feel compelled to wipe these stains of unfulfilled vengeance (the targets) and their actual stains (the crime scenes). While you know you're doing what you need to, you also know that you're acting as judge, jury, executioner, and CSI clean up crew and what you do isn't sanctioned by any legal/moral authority.
Protoman wrote: Whisperknives wrote: Protoman wrote: Investigator? Empiricist Investigator? All the talents look pretty fun.
I don't know if you guys get traits or not, but student of philosophy would go well with your stats if you're investing in bluff and diplomacy.
I looked at Empiricst, and like the flair of it.
I will edit in the traits but yes I have:
Student of Philosophy and Clever Word Play, to cover my horribly charisma. Hmm usually you can't take those two traits as they're both social traits. But if you guys houseruled away that restriction, cool.
Your character sounds like Dexter. Maybe be "tortured" that you feel compelled to wipe these stains of unfulfilled vengeance (the targets) and their actual stains (the crime scenes). While you know you're doing what you need to, you also know that you're acting as judge, jury, executioner, and CSI clean up crew and what you do isn't sanctioned by any legal/moral authority. I have never seen Dexter but many people have told me I would like it.
Yeah we got rid of that stupid trait rule, it made no sense.
My character is more having the issues of, as he told the leader of a cult a few games ago. "I am evil, but the world needs me. I know someday that will become that I hate, I am a murderer, I am a monster, someday, someone will take vengeance on me... so be it."
Also he is so obsessed with his work that I know he can not do it in my lifetime, he is looking to become immortal.
I'd retrain to a Cleric or Warpriest, or perhaps an Inquisitor. You are likely getting bored of a martial, which is fine, so why not try a half-caster half-martial?
Maybe pick up Vivisectionist Alchemist just to give you some different abilities? Make you more of a Jack the Ripper type instead of just a thug.
I would also suggest Inquisitor, but your Wisdom is kinda poop for that.
Alchemy is one path to immortality as well.
First, this sounds like an awesome character. Second, I'd recommend the Cleaner archetype or the Cuthroat for flavor.
Skill Focus(Stealth), and Hellcat Stealth.
You can literally disappear, in front of someone, in the middle of the day, without Cover, or Concealment.
Very cool.
Secret Wizard wrote: I'd retrain to a Cleric or Warpriest, or perhaps an Inquisitor. You are likely getting bored of a martial, which is fine, so why not try a half-caster half-martial? I love martial classes, that is not really the issue, I looked as the Slayer class and specifically the Cleaner archtype, and said, "Hey I love the cleaner idea." We are all a big crime syndicate, so it is very useful. However, unless I have to fake a crime scene or we are heading into an obvious fight it is usually sitting back while the Bard and Ninja do everything.
I think Inquisitor or even Paladin (we do not use alignments so paladin's have no restrictions.) would be great thematically or story wise, but i do not have the right stats to support it.
I will look into either empiricist Investigator or Vivisectionist Alchemist.
Investigator will help with the social intrigue. An alternate route would be to find what skills your party is missing and pick up a feat to specialize in that skill.
Lion Blade is an interesting option.
How about switching over to a Vanguard? Gives you more tricks up your sleeve.
Secret Wizard wrote: How about switching over to a Vanguard? Gives you more tricks up your sleeve. I liked the look of it, but I could not do it with Cleaner, and the cleaner ability is amazing.
I wish they would have reprinted Bloodhound from 3.5
I would not bring them back alive but I am the hunt them down kind of guy.
blackbloodtroll wrote: What's your alignment? We do not use alignments but if I did I would definitely be Lawful Evil.
Ok, how's this -- you could dip into Brawler for Martial Flexibility, to adapt more to fights and be more proactive. The Winding Path Renegade (Unblinking Flame Mystery) could be nice if you stay in light armor, or pehaps Unbending Steel if you plan to craft more.
Unarmed Strike also opens a ton of feat alternatives that could work for your build.
Need to clarify some things -
1) It sounds like you're playing a very social game. How much combat do you see in a play session?
2) How will built is you're character for diplomacy and other non-aggressive social stuff?
3) Is your real problem the lack of 'fighting' type encounters?
Can we get a brief example on how a average play session goes?
As others have noted, Empiricist Investigator sounds like the rebuild you want. You'll likely remain about as good in combat (Studied Combat is amazing) with the exception of maybe losing a couple of Feats, Without A Trace and Misdirection...and will instead gain 6-level casting base on Int.
That's quite a lot more utility, right there. You'll also get Investigator Talents, many of which are amazing, and Inspiration, which is quite cool in it's own right. Also, Trapfinding, not that that's a big deal, but it'll be handy.
You might nee to burn a Feat or a level to keep using a pickaxe, but that's doable, and the rest works out very well indeed.
Matt2VK wrote: Need to clarify some things -
1) It sounds like you're playing a very social game. How much combat do you see in a play session?
2) How will built is you're character for diplomacy and other non-aggressive social stuff?
3) Is your real problem the lack of 'fighting' type encounters?
Can we get a brief example on how a average play session goes?
1. We have combat about once every 4 sessions.
2. Total after all factors:
Diplomacy: 15
Intimidate: 18
Disguise: 18
Bluff: 23 (if covering a lie)
Survival: 16
Stealth: 18
Perception: 17
Other skills there for flavor and just in case.
3. Lack of combat encounters is bothersome but not that big of a deal. It is more just that In combat all I do sneak/run up and hit them with a pick axe, outside of combat all I am is a set of skills that everyone in the group also has but they have ninja tricks or Bard abilities to back them up.
Deadmanwalking wrote: As others have noted, Empiricist Investigator sounds like the rebuild you want. You'll likely remain about as good in combat (Studied Combat is amazing) with the exception of maybe losing a couple of Feats, Without A Trace and Misdirection...and will instead gain 6-level casting base on Int.
That's quite a lot more utility, right there. You'll also get Investigator Talents, many of which are amazing, and Inspiration, which is quite cool in it's own right. Also, Trapfinding, not that that's a big deal, but it'll be handy.
You might nee to burn a Feat or a level to keep using a pickaxe, but that's doable, and the rest works out very well indeed.
I am not looking to rebuild, I am looking at what to take after level 7.
Final try --- take the Sleepless Detective PrC. That way, you'll find the evildoers easier plus you pick up quite a few tricks.
Thanks for all the advice guys, I am liking the Empiricist or Alchemist ideas the best, i will see what I can theory craft out of it.
Aspis Agent is a cool option.
Pick up the improvised weapon and other "shady combat" tricks, it fits with the cleaner vibe (The man seems to have been killed by his own chairleg, untraceable murder weapon...)and could spice things up a bit when needing to intimidate or engage in "Hostile Negotations".
Then, even if the bard is doing the sweet talking, you ram a coffee cup into the bodyguard's face with frightening efficacy rendering him blind for a few rounds, and suddenly the bard is sweet talking with a much more attentive crowd, and if you guys still have an abundance of combat encounters, you can introduce novelty and exercise some creativity while not compromising your combat ability.
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