So, first, my sample character:
Aldaran
Male garuda-blooded aasimar (plumekith) barbarian (urban barbarian) 1/fighter (two-handed fighter) 1/diviner 1 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player's Guide 108, Pathfinder RPG Advanced Race Guide 84, Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Combat 31)
CG Medium outsider (native)
Init +7; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +8
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Defense
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AC 19, touch 13, flat-footed 16 (+6 armor, +2 Dex, +1 dodge)
hp 31 (3 HD; 1d6+1d10+1d12+9)
Fort +7, Ref +3, Will +4
Resist acid 5, cold 5, electricity 5
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft. (20 ft. in armor)
Melee earth breaker +6 (2d6+6/×3) or
. . falchion +6 (2d4+6/18-20) or
. . mwk cold iron bardiche +7 (1d10+6/19-20) or
. . scythe +6 (2d4+6/×4)
Special Attacks rage (6 rounds/day)
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 3rd; concentration +5)
. . 1/day—see invisibility
Arcane School Spell-Like Abilities (CL 3rd; concentration +5)
. . 5/day—diviner's fortune (+1)
Diviner Spells Prepared (CL 1st; concentration +3)
. . 1st—alarm, ant haul[APG] (DC 13), identify
. . 0 (at will)—arcane mark, mending, message
. . Opposition Schools Enchantment, Necromancy
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Statistics
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Str 18, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 14
Base Atk +2; CMB +6; CMD 19
Feats Alertness, Dodge, Mobility, Power Attack, Scribe Scroll, Toughness
Traits dangerously curious, indomitable faith
Skills Acrobatics +6 (+2 to jump), Climb +4, Diplomacy +6, Fly +0, Knowledge (local) +6, Knowledge (planes) +6, Perception +8, Sense Motive +2, Spellcraft +6, Survival +4, Use Magic Device +9; Racial Modifiers +2 Acrobatics, +2 Fly
Languages Celestial, Common, Draconic, Sylvan
SQ arcane bond (styx, scorpion, greensting), controlled rage, crowd control, forewarned
Combat Gear wand of shield (50 charges); Other Gear breastplate, earth breaker, falchion, mwk cold iron bardiche, scythe, cloak of resistance +1, hemp rope (50 ft.), masterwork backpack
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Special Abilities
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Controlled Rage (Ex) May gain lesser bonus split as desired, but without normal drawbacks.
Crowd Control (Ex) If 2+ foes adjacent, +1 to hit & AC. Unslowed by crowds & bonus to intimidate.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Divination Diviners are masters of remote viewing, prophecies, and using magic to explore the world.
Diviner's Fortune +1 (5/day) (Sp) As a standard action, touch grants ally +1 insight bonus to many checks for 1 round.
Empathic Link with Familiar (Su) You have an empathic link with your Arcane Familiar.
Enchantment You must spend 2 slots to cast spells from the Enchantment school.
Energy Resistance, Acid (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Acid attacks.
Energy Resistance, Cold (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Cold attacks.
Energy Resistance, Electricity (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Electricity attacks.
Familiar Bonus: +4 bonus on initiative checks You gain the Alertness feat while your familiar is within arm's reach.
Forewarned 1 (Su) Can always act in surprise rounds.
Mobility +4 to AC vs. AoO provoked by moving out of or through a threatened area.
Necromancy You must spend 2 slots to cast spells from the Necromancy school.
Power Attack -1/+2 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Rage (6 rounds/day) (Ex) +4 Str, +4 Con, +2 to Will saves, -2 to AC when enraged.
Share Spells with Familiar Can cast spells with a target of "You" on the familiar with a range of touch.
So... This type of character is somewhat of a pet project of mine. Basically I like fighters, preferably melee ones, so that is the backbone of the character - hitting hard and efficiently.
Over the course of playing I've come across a couple of different scenarios:
- Your group is the 'each man and woman for themselves' kind, so if you want to tackle a flying creature, you better get a pot with you because the wizard won't cast it on you. If you want to use Mirror Image, ditto, etc. You can pile on examples at will;
- Your group is highly cooperative, and makes sure that you can do your work in the best way possible, since if you hit the bad guys hard, and as many times as possible, it is good for everyone. I have had Sorcerers casting Dimension Door on me so I would be on the bad guy caster's face immediately, or making me fly so I could go up and after the Chimera, casting Protection from Evil to increase my saves, etc. I, on the other and, would do my best to make sure the bad guys want to chase me, then proceeding in hitting them as hard as I can;
- Then there are the balanced groups (which I believe make up most of the cases), when all of the above will happen once in a while in one or the other direction;
- Last but not least, sometimes there is no time to buff the fighter, and doing so would mean a loss of overall efficiency - cleric better off healing than casting Bull's Strength, wizard beter off casting Fireball than Mirror image on the fighter, and so on.
So, what I want to play is a strongly martial focused character that can buff himself with key spells in key situations.
Off the top of my head, and assuming a 2handed weapon combatant which drops ONE buff on himself before combat begins, I am looking at stuff like Shield, Mirror Image, Fly, Blur, Lead Blades, Bless Weapon, Weapon of Awe, Invisibility, Greater Invisibility, etc. The buff choice would depend on the situation at hand of course.
Fighter is my base class - I will be taking mostly, if not only, fighter levels from here onwards. Barbarian, apart from being a magnificent add to many martial builds (in my opinion), adds in some skills I would really like to have. The wizard choice is actually the most 'mechanic' approach of all - I had the option of either focusing hard on UMD, or take an arcane casting class, which should allow me access to the arcane spell trigger items. The main reason is related with scrolls, wands and rods, more than with the spellcasting itself.
Apologies for the poor formatting, but I am on the run - advice/critique are welcome nonetheless :D
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The two main ways to do it are dip into a caster class (sorcerer for UMD charisma overlap instead of MADing more with adding to mental stats to your martial base) or straight max UMD and straight martial.
Paladins or rangers are another decent concept option that works off the bat. They have spell lists with good buff spells that can come in wands which gives them the option to never need to pump up their casting stat.
Paladins also have good synergy with Charisma-based paladin powers and UMD skill or sorcerer dip casting.
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Bloodrager with the Arcane Bloodline is one of the most disgusting self-buffers in the game. Why not go with that?
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I like playing a mix if barbarian and alchemists. At alc 2, grab a vestigial arm and employ both a shield and a 2 handed weapon. Take armored hulk bbn archetype to get heavy armor proficiency and you can have a serious AC with some staying power. Even at higher.levels, power attacking will miss you on iterative attacks keeping the high AC relevant. Alc extracts and mutagen to buff and heal that others cannot expect you to waste your turn using on them when they don't work on others without a discovery devoted to such. Bbn rage to buff attack damage, though you trade in the AC. Try to wait for a full attack from haste before raging.
Another idea is 1/2 Elf with the alternate racial trait that makes them count as a level 1 arcane caster for spell trigger and spell completion magic items.
But for what you described of your play style, I really think bloodrager would give you more of what you are looking for in combat and self buffing.
But you sad you like fighter better. So maybe a lore warden into early entry EK would work best for you.
@Imbicatus: I can certainly agree with you on most of your reasoning, but in all honesty (and I think maybe this wasn't clear from my initial post) I think the best defensive spells are arcane. I find stuff like Shield (+4 to AC and an added bonus against Magic Missile? Yes, thank you. Hand me that Falchion please), Invisibility, Mirror Image, Blur, Stoneskin, etc, perfectly amazing for any martial combatant. I am well aware of the logic that dictates 'if you hit them harder, they won't last as long, and you won't need as many defenses', and I agree with it. I am just thinking that one round to zap a Mirror Image on may actually be invaluable for a martial, don't you think? Also, I'm expecting some buffs from the other characters in the group :D
@Voadam: Agreed, but since I want to make it mostly a martial character, wouldn't you think a Fighter would be the best option? Though... I gotta admit I really appreciate the Ranger option, mainly for the skill points - feat wise, it can't hold a candle up to a Fighter... Can it? Now, Paladins are brutal, but I guess they take a serious hit from dipping, and also a LOT of what they can do is dependent on Charisma - I feel 14 would never be enough, and I really wouldn't like to tank Dexterity or Constitution. How would you go about setting this up?
@shroudb: I admit I really am not familiar with Alchemists nor the Bloodrager. This is a personal thing, but I dislike the third arm thing... I am not saying it is not effective or strong, it just strikes me as 'funky'. As far as the Bloodrager goes, I will definitely take a look, but I am assuming (maybe incorrectly) it does not stack feats like a fighter - won't this make me a one trick pony in combat? Otherwise I am open to suggestions, though they will have to be a more detailed, since I am not familiar with the class ;)
Serisan: As above, I will look into it - any particular pointers?
Raymond: The third arm... What about a build without a vestigial arm? Makes me feel like a strange offshoot from 'The Hills have Eyes' or something :D Though looking at the concept you are putting forward, it does seem like a sight to be seen - would a build such as this allow me any particular access to arcane casting as I referred above?
ElterAgo: I like the Lore Warden archetype a lot, mainly because of the skills and added abilities it brings to the table, but in a 'mainly martial character' I feel like the loss of Heavy Armor Proficiency and the fighter feats is crippling - do you not agree? I am starting to understand I really need to take a second look at the Bloodrager though. By the way, are you meaning a full progression as Bloodrager, or a dip, instead of an Arcane casting class?
Rodinia: Aaaaaah yes... The gish... I remember it fondly from the days of yore, and how it could be smoothly built :D I am indeed starting at level 3, and am not actually looking to add enough levels of an arcane casting class to actually 'cast' with it, but instead to have a more direct access to spell trigger items. My doubt is which way would be best - the focus on UMD, or the arcane class dipping. Do check my thoughts above on divine vs. arcane buffs, both offensive and defensive, and let me know your thoughts. What I am assuming is that basing the character of a Two-Handed weapon fighter, I will have enough punch as a martial character right there, while using the spells to boost myself mostly in defense (again, Mirror Image, Shield, etc.) or utility (Fly, Invisibility, etc.), though now that you speak of it.... Those are some sweet offensive buffs. I am aiming at a default of one zap per fight (may already be too much in some cases), or even maybe two or three in exceptional cases.
@Renegadeshepherd: Again I am not very familiar with alchemists and mutagens, but would love to hear more about it.
All of this writing got me thinking - if I am carrying around a wand of mirror image, to zap myself with it on the first round of combat, I will also have to invest on higher caster level items (or in this particular case, I would never have more than... 2 images?) - not sure how much of a sinkhole for gold that may become. What do you think?
I'd make a Warpriest for the Self-buffing martial. You have full caster level, full weapon and armor, and nothing beats the action economy of fervor self buffing, and the best buff spells are on the cleric list.
Seconding this. My Half-orc Gorumite Warpriest (see profile) buffs himself with Divine Favor and then proceeds to murder stuff with his greatsword. Next level he'll get Vital Strike, which combined with Greater Weapon of the Chosen will allow him to hit like a truck every turn. It's not the strongest combo, but it's fun, so far. :)
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ElterAgo: I like the Lore Warden archetype a lot, mainly because of the skills and added abilities it brings to the table, but in a 'mainly martial character' I feel like the loss of Heavy Armor Proficiency and the fighter feats is crippling - do you not agree? I am starting to understand I really need to take a second look at the Bloodrager though. By the way, are you meaning a full progression as Bloodrager, or a dip, instead of an Arcane casting class?
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They give up a few feats but gain others. You're probably losing more than that with the triple multiclassing.
The loss of heavy armor is usually nothing to me. Even if I do have proficiency, I almost never chose to wear it. Penalties to skills like stealth, swim, climb, acrobatics, etc... plus taking longer to get to where the fighting is taking place, are just too much of a problem for a couple of points of AC. Usually a challenging opponent is going to hit you especially with its primary attacks (or first iterative attacks) and just a few points doesn't seem to make all that much difference on the secondary/iterative attacks. So I'm usually picking mithral breastplate or chain shirt anyhow.I meant just bloodrager. Seems to do exactly what you said you want except piles of feats. Just possibly a single level dip in something else, but probably not. It is an excellent self buffing class all by itself.
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Seconding this. My Half-orc Gorumite Warpriest (see profile) buffs himself with Divine Favor and then proceeds to murder stuff with his greatsword. Next level he'll get Vital Strike, which combined with Greater Weapon of the Chosen will allow him to hit like a truck every turn. It's not the strongest combo, but it's fun, so far. :)I'd make a Warpriest for the Self-buffing martial. You have full caster level, full weapon and armor, and nothing beats the action economy of fervor self buffing, and the best buff spells are on the cleric list.
And then you can hit even harder since Gorum grants clerics (and warpriests) Lead Blades as a 3rd level spell. As a personal spell, you can cast lead blades with Fervor. It combos quite nicely with the greater weapon of the chosen vital strike build.
Serisan: As above, I will look into it - any particular pointers?
There really aren't a lot of pointers to give. Arcane bloodline just gives you buffs when raging starting at 4. You also get a very compact spell list full of good buffs. You have a lot of key buffs, like Enlarge, Fly, etc. on your spell list, so you can wand them as desired.
You lose some of the finer control of the Magus in exchange for full BAB, rage, and SMASH.
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And then you can hit even harder since Gorum grants clerics (and warpriests) Lead Blades as a 3rd level spell. As a personal spell, you can cast lead blades with Fervor. It combos quite nicely with the greater weapon of the chosen vital strike build.Seconding this. My Half-orc Gorumite Warpriest (see profile) buffs himself with Divine Favor and then proceeds to murder stuff with his greatsword. Next level he'll get Vital Strike, which combined with Greater Weapon of the Chosen will allow him to hit like a truck every turn. It's not the strongest combo, but it's fun, so far. :)I'd make a Warpriest for the Self-buffing martial. You have full caster level, full weapon and armor, and nothing beats the action economy of fervor self buffing, and the best buff spells are on the cleric list.
You are correct. I probably won't Fervor Lead Blades much, though, because that's 2 Fervor uses per fight and I've only got so many. D:
He really feels like a Fighter with magic (and when you're swinging 2x times at your full BAB, it's almost like you're not a 3/4 BAB class!) and is pretty much the perfect gish for me, personally.
@OP: If you prefer Arcane spells, the Arcane bloodline Bloodrager is where it's at. He's way more beatstick-y and less caster-y than 6th level spellcaster options, though. Some kind of Bard or Skald could work, too, giving up some sheer facebeating for better spellcasting and more out-of-combat class features.
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There are so many good ways to build this character.
Cleric, Druid, Oracle, Hunter, Warpriest, Inquisitor, Paladin, Ranger. These are the divine flavors of beatstick and they are all very playable at all levels. Don't let 9th level casting fool you, Clerics, Druids and Oracles are all very good at melee.
Bloodrager, Magus, Barbarian/Magus, Bard, Fighter/Wizard/Eldritch Knight, Skald, Swashbuckler/Magus. These are the arcane flavors of beatstick. They are strong through the whole game as well, but lack the power of a full caster. These seem more like what you were going for though.
Alchemist is awesome as well, and really in a class by itself.
I will also suggest a Bloodrager with the Arcane Bloodline. The bloodrager gets access to lots of good buff spells, though they take a while to come online for self casting. You can always use wands of them though. Also, as a tip invest of runestones of power for extra spell slots so you can cast your buffs more often.
The Bloodrager gets the ability to casts spells by raging by expending a spell slot built into the class. (Basically a free action self buff).
But the arcane bloodline takes it one step further and says that while you rage you:
Arcane Bloodrage (Sp): At 4th level, when entering a bloodrage you can choose one of the following spells and apply its effects to yourself: blur, protection from arrows, resist energy (choose one energy type), or spider climb. These effects last for as long as you continue bloodraging, regardless of the spell's normal duration.
Greater Arcane Bloodrage (Sp): At 8th level, when entering a bloodrage, you can choose to apply the effects of either displacement or haste to yourself. This is in addition to arcane bloodrage, and otherwise works as that ability.
Those are great buffs, and decent variety depending on what other support casters you have available.
I built one that focused on debuffing using intimidate, hurtful, cornugon smash, arcane strike blooded, arcane strike and riving strike. Oh, also the cruel weapon enhancement.
Between the self action buffs, and the ability to debuff enemies through intimidate he is a monster that is lots of fun to play.
A Magus casting Bull Strength, and Enlarge Person on himself is impressive.
I'd simply make an Oracle of Battle, Bloodrager, Inquisitor or Magus.
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Another good idea is a Magus that focuses on polymorph buffs.
Oftentimes you can get a decent size bonus to str AND a Movement speed like flying or swimming. The first example that comes to mind is Monstrous Physique you pick up a size bonus to str, a nat armor bonus and: "climb 30 feet, fly 30 feet (average maneuverability), swim 30 feet, darkvision 60 feet, low-light vision, and scent."
Another good idea is a Magus that focuses on polymorph buffs.
Oftentimes you can get a decent size bonus to str AND a Movement speed like flying or swimming. The first example that comes to mind is Monstrous Physique you pick up a size bonus to str, a nat armor bonus and: "climb 30 feet, fly 30 feet (average maneuverability), swim 30 feet, darkvision 60 feet, low-light vision, and scent."
You do not gain ALL those abilities. If the creature you change into has one/some of those abilities, you gain it. The only one guaranteed is Darkvision, as all 'monstrous humanoids' have Darkvision 60 ft.
Seconding this. My Half-orc Gorumite Warpriest (see profile) buffs himself with Divine Favor and then proceeds to murder stuff with his greatsword. Next level he'll get Vital Strike, which combined with Greater Weapon of the Chosen will allow him to hit like a truck every turn. It's not the strongest combo, but it's fun, so far. :)I'd make a Warpriest for the Self-buffing martial. You have full caster level, full weapon and armor, and nothing beats the action economy of fervor self buffing, and the best buff spells are on the cleric list.
I'm also backing this. The Warpriest is designed to go "Kaio-Ken!" and kick it up another notch every turn.
You don't need Shield or other AC-buffing spells when you swift-cast Enlarge Person/Righteous Might, then Bear's Endurance, etc., etc.
And if you take a Samsaran as your race, you can add True Strike to your spell list, meaning you will basically never miss - you swift-cast True Strike every turn, and just let the damage start stacking up (it's not tremendously optimal, but a +20 to hit on one attack every turn is NASTY, ESPECIALLY if you focus on the Vital Strike tree)
@Voadam: Agreed, but since I want to make it mostly a martial character, wouldn't you think a Fighter would be the best option? Though... I gotta admit I really appreciate the Ranger option, mainly for the skill points - feat wise, it can't hold a candle up to a Fighter... Can it? Now, Paladins are brutal, but I guess they take a serious hit from dipping, and also a LOT of what they can do is dependent on Charisma - I feel 14 would never be enough, and I really wouldn't like to tank Dexterity or Constitution. How would you go about setting this up?
Fighter is a very good option among many options for a melee focused character.
Rangers get their style bonus feats which skip prereqs, really nice for the super high two weapon fighting dex prereqs. They get fewer feats than a fighter and no heavy armor, but they are decent melee with a lot of one shot melee buff options. The one in our group uses wands of lead blades and gravity bow quite often on himself for offense and chameleon style concealment spells for defense.
I'm actually considering an eventual 1 level dip into paladin with my 7 charisma melee character in our Wrath of the Righteous game just for the DR ignoring smite.
Personally if I was going for a ground up melee paladin I'd go high strength, charisma, constitution, and low int, wis, and dex. Heavy armor and possibly shield for AC combined with smite defense, low wisdom means still use wands though no or few spells and scrolls. The higher the point buy the better paladins do with their MAD.
I seem to notice tow distinct mindsets, between Warpriest and Bloodrager.
On the Warpriest, I would like more of and more versatile defensive buffs - they do seem to pack an outstanding array of offensive spells, but the defense ones seems slightly more lackluster. Am I looking at it all wrong? The offensive possible combos though... wow...
The Bloodrager seems to work almost 'the other way around', as I am not identifying impressive offensive buffs - yes, they do have Magic Weapon, True Strike, Brow Gasher, Enlarge Person... So I don't think they will match up with a divinely blessed combatant, but they won't be defenseless either - and I DID say I was expecting to focus my offense on martial abilities ;)
Now... Yes, I am going to start at level 3. Won't I be crying for the complete lack of spell casting? On the other hand, do I have access to the spell lists in a way that allows me to use wands without UMD nonetheless?
YES! I like the Arcane Bloodrager - should I team it up with Metamagic Rager or something else, in your opinion?
You don't need Shield or other AC-buffing spells when you swift-cast Enlarge Person/Righteous Might, then Bear's Endurance, etc., etc.
But you wouldn't say not to a Mirror Image, would you? ;)
You don't need Shield or other AC-buffing spells when you swift-cast Enlarge Person/Righteous Might, then Bear's Endurance, etc., etc.But you wouldn't say not to a Mirror Image, would you? ;)
Actually, yes I would.
Defensive spells are spells that aren't kills your opponents. Who needs a Mirror Image when they're dead?
The point of the Warpriest is that you can fervor-buff and then make a full-round attack.
No chance of AoOs, no time spent besides a Swift Action - just gettin' bigger and killin' dudes at full-speed.
At the same time, if you're casting AC-upping spells as a Bloodrager or Barbarian, you're kinda missing the point of being a Bloodrager - you have lots of HP, you get more when you Bloodrage, and you get beefier, too.
Also, an Invulnerable Rager + Mutagenic Mauler would be pretty hilarious, since it gets the job done that the Alchemist does, but with a beefier body and free Two-Weapon Fighting + Double Slice for attacks made with Close weapons.
There are a few issues with the "self-buffer". In many groups, it is considered rather selfish.
There are other issues: How many rounds before you are "ready"? Standing there casting for 2-3 rounds before you can contribute is not much of a team player. I know you said "one" but even one round of self-buffing before you contribute can be a lot.
Next- how useless will you feel if not buffed? We have a guy who does this, and as soon as Dispel Magic is cast or his buffs run out he is whining about retreating and how "useless" he is.
The best melee PCs for self-buffing are the Paladin and the Inquisitor as many of their buffs are swift actions. And the Magus too, depending.
@chbgraphicarts: I do understand, and agree completely with your perspective. In this particular case, I am trying to build an effective, hard-hitting melee martial, which can add on specific defenses/offenses.
I understand that in most cases, battles rage on brutally and fast, but truth be told (and perhaps this is the case only in the games I play), and even though action economy is king, in most games I play, battles are not over in a heartbeat, so I would like to have a single standard action to buff myself at the beginning - I can drop a mirror image (if I didn't drop it before), and wade into combat. Yes, I miss that initial charge, and its potential damage, but against a hard hitting bad guy, I up my survivability by a ton. Right?
If at lower levels, I zap myself with a wand of shield, then move into the face of the bad guy, and I am a bloodrager, I have a lot of hit points, I get more beefier when I rage AND I have a +4 to AC - isn't that just added value, in exchange for a standard action?
tkul spoke about the Dervish of Dawn in a post above, and I have played one at around level 8 - he would be dead many times over if it was not for Magic Mirror (And Crane Wing back in the day), facing some sort of crazed barbaric Warlord with a to-hit over the top. It is this kind of utility I am looking for :D
@DrDeth: I get it, and that is why I insist on that single buff, depending on situation - I know I cannot zap a wand as a swift action (or is there a way?), and that alone puts me at a disadvantage vs. a Warpriest and others. Do you think my attempt is simply not worth it at all?
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Whisper's Rule of Buffing: If combat has already started no buff is worth giving up a full round of attacks for.
While it's not always true, it's usually true.
Magda is a self-buffer. Her typical round one opening is:
0. Already has minute-per-level buffs going before combat starts
1. Move action to start +2 +2 Bardsong for whole party
2. Swift action cast +4 +4 Divine Favor for self
3. Take a 5' step to fish for AoOs
4. Standard action to either cast a spell (e.g. Blessing of Fervor) or attack
5. Hopefully scoop up some AoOs with the +6 +6 self-buffs.
When there's no time for buffing her alternate round one opening is:
1. Swift Action +4 +4 Divine Favor
2. Free Action activate boots of speed
3. Full attack
master self-buffer: warning, i'm being silly.
15 point buy
str: 10 -strength isn't super supportive of self-buffing can be neutral.
dex: 13 -some finesse is usually required
con: 12 -stamina is somewhat important
int: 14 -spellcasting ability for illusions can be useful
cha: 8 - kind of a dump stat due to the independance of the character
wis: 9 - another dump which may be reason for independant spell use.
Gnome wizard illusionist would be a good choice. At first level your illusions last an extra round after concentration ends. This is helpful when your ghost sounds "moans" are interrupted by a happy ending. I'd suggest a bonded object for the extra spell, inspiration, and privacy vs an animal companion.
Magda, I have read many of your posts about Reach clerics, and I'll just say they are almost like a bedside reading to me - I really enjoy your perspective, and the insight has taught me much. So, thank you for dropping by :D
Here's the thing, those are only offensive buffs, and most likely more than enough for a second line combatant - but I would like to play a frontliner with also a survival twist. In the above scenario, I would be getting your +2 buff, and my Shield for example (plus whatever martial abilities I am carrying around - rage, fighter feats, whatever).
There will be in most cases buffs from other players in the group (hopefully), but even in the case above, heck, I could carry my own wand of Divine Favor and zap myself if I thought the opponent had a hard AC for example - I do not intend to buff me all the way (I will, given time), but instead complement what I get from others, and build (improve) upon what I can do.
The idea is a martial combatant, with a zap to make the difference :D
I am sure we have all seen Barbarians demolishing down enemies with hits for tons of damage - would that barbarian be much worse in every possible scenario if he had zapped himself with a Shield, a Mirror Image, a Fly, or a Stoneskin spell before starting to mow things down?
As others have said. It depends largely upon your game group play style.
There are some groups that focus so exclusively on offense that most combats are over in 1 or 2 rounds (even if intended to be a tough combat). Buffing for defense is usually a waste of time.
Other groups have most of their buffs up before combat starts. However their GM is handling things lets them know when a combat is likely so they can buff yet apparently are not close enough for the opposition to hear all that spell casting of buffs.
My group is somewhere between the two. Tough combats are usually 3-5 rounds. And the GM rarely lets us know what is coming up far enough in advance to cast buffs before they can hear us.
So we have a few long term (hour or 10 min per) buffs up. Someone that can may buff once before closing for combat. Then someone else in the group will cast other buffs.
Yes, I miss that initial charge, and its potential damage, but against a hard hitting bad guy, I up my survivability by a ton. Right?
Actually, no, you really don't. The longer your opponent is up, the greater number of times you'll get hit, and the lower your chances of survivability. Conversely, the sooner your opponent is down, the better, since it means no-one is threatening your HP anymore.
Then again, it doesn't matter how much HP you have, as long as you're still conscious - a Wand of Cure Light Wounds effectively doubles your HP, as well as the HP of your entire party.
But, if you're dead-set on protecting yourself, then you're better off swift-casting Shield, casting Mirror Image off a Wand as a Standard Action, and drinking a potion as a Move Action (Accelerated Drinker trait).
After that, you can swift-cast Divine Favor and charge in. Every turn after that is spent swift-casting buffing spells and making full-round attacks.
End result is +4 AC, Mirror Image effect, Divine Favor, and another buff all in 2 rounds, 1 of which allows for a Charge.
Magda, I have read many of your posts about Reach clerics, and I'll just say they are almost like a bedside reading to me - I really enjoy your perspective, and the insight has taught me much. So, thank you for dropping by :D
Here's the thing, those are only offensive buffs, and most likely more than enough for a second line combatant - but I would like to play a frontliner with also a survival twist. In the above scenario, I would be getting your +2 buff, and my Shield for example (plus whatever martial abilities I am carrying around - rage, fighter feats, whatever).
There will be in most cases buffs from other players in the group (hopefully), but even in the case above, heck, I could carry my own wand of Divine Favor and zap myself if I thought the opponent had a hard AC for example - I do not intend to buff me all the way (I will, given time), but instead complement what I get from others, and build (improve) upon what I can do.
The idea is a martial combatant, with a zap to make the difference :D
I am sure we have all seen Barbarians demolishing down enemies with hits for tons of damage - would that barbarian be much worse in every possible scenario if he had zapped himself with a Shield, a Mirror Image, a Fly, or a Stoneskin spell before starting to mow things down?
I would honestly go with Bloodrager or Magus if I were you. Bloodrager, as you said, is more defensive/utility buffs in their spell list (although they do have a few nice offensive ones), but they also have rage, just like a Barbarian, which is all the offensive buff you'll need. The Magus, on the other hand, mixes a bunch of good defensive buff with a bunch of good offensive buffs, even more buffs in the form of Acrana, and the ability to mix a full attack with spell casting (and despite the prevalence of it, this need not be an attack. Very handy to haste+full attack in the same round.). You can even go Myrmidarch to become more martial focused (gaining weapons training and armor training like a fighter), and eventually counting all his levels as fighter levels for feat requirements. You don't have any inborn healing, other than infernal healing, but you have UMD, and wands are great out of combat.
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If you're allowed 3pp stuff, Dreamscarred Press's Soulknife and Psychic Warrior are absolutely PERFECT for this idea.
A few defensive self buffs can go a long way.
UMD is DC 20 for a wand, fighters don't have a lot of skill points or charisma to regularly reach that target, its easy to hit at higher levels, but there are a good many of the early levels where UMD is iffy at best and so not a good choice.
Be a two weapon or two handed martial build and dip a level in sorcerer. Have shield be one of your spells known and pick up a wand of mirror image when you get the chance. Even a few images at minimum caster level can make a big difference.
Both of these buffs can be done regularly before kicking in a door and will last 1 minute per level. It is the rare fight that lasts more than 10 rounds. This also allows you to do other scrolls.
Simple and straight forward, you only lose 1 BAB, a few hp, and a level delay in martial class abilities in return for some good one round defensive buffs that can allow you to take more of a blocking wall approach against lots of foes or multiple attack foes where they have action economy on you (Vrocks come to mind).
Half-orc Archeologist Bard with the fate's favored trait and Sacred tattoos alternate racial feature.
I'll draft a Bloodrager tonight when I am home - feel free to throw some builds at me, since I am mostly unknowing regarding Alchemists :D
Actually, no, you really don't. The longer your opponent is up, the greater number of times you'll get hit, and the lower your chances of survivability. Conversely, the sooner your opponent is down, the better, since it means no-one is threatening your HP anymore.
Then again, it doesn't matter how much HP you have, as long as you're still conscious - a Wand of Cure Light Wounds effectively doubles your HP, as well as the HP of your entire party.
But, if you're dead-set on protecting yourself, then you're better off swift-casting Shield, casting Mirror Image off a Wand as a Standard Action, and drinking a potion as a Move Action (Accelerated Drinker trait).
After that, you can swift-cast Divine Favor and charge in. Every turn after that is spent swift-casting buffing spells and making full-round attacks.
End result is +4 AC, Mirror Image effect, Divine Favor, and another buff all in 2 rounds, 1 of which allows for a Charge.
Who is doing all that? The Warpriest?
@DrDeth: I get it, and that is why I insist on that single buff, depending on situation - I know I cannot zap a wand as a swift action (or is there a way?), and that alone puts me at a disadvantage vs. a Warpriest and others. Do you think my attempt is simply not worth it at all?
I think it is an interesting idea, worth trying. But as has been said, it depends on your table. Have you discussed this?
DrDeth: Haven't discussed it yet to be honest. But wouldn't you say that even depending on table, you would have room to zap yourself with that single useful spell - even if you are hasted and blessed, or good hope'd, and you have a dancing shield, and you are flying, etc, there would still be room for, say... Lead Blades? Or Weapon of Awe? Or Blur? Or...? Right?
What about if I try to do it in conjunction? The sweetness of an 'action-economist' Warpriest coupled with a ONE level dip in a class that grants me access to spell trigger items? Hmmmmm, would it work?
*Takes another long look at chbgraphicarts post*
I'll draft a Bloodrager tonight when I am home - feel free to throw some builds at me
1) Get Arcane bloodline and Combat Reflexes which is on Arcane bonus feats list.
1.5) If you don't have to roll Superstition against your own spells, trading level 4 bloodline power for it and something else like Witch Hunter is an option.2) Trade level 12 power for Come and Get Me and something else like Reckless Abandon. Buy 1-2 runestones of power 2 or pearls of power 2 if your GM allows them to work on spontaneous caster. Rage, get Displacement from level 8 bloodline power and Mirror Image from Greater Bloodrage.
Activate Come and Get Me and see if anyone manage to get you.
I made a Figther(tactican)1, investigator x Versatile human that can do some of the stuff you seem to want. my char was dumping cha ( to 7)but taking skill focus(linguistic) and orator at level 1, power attack at level 3 where tha bad guys start to stand fore more than a single str 18 great sword chop, and swift study by level 5. With str 18 and int 16 there was room to get con 14 and dex and wis 12. With alchemi he can self buff or even take infusion and buff others. With inspiration he can go that extra inch when needed and with Martial weapon profs, and studied combat he is in the big boys club when it comes to hit and Dam. With +6 (4 bab and 2 SC) at 5(same as a figther with weapon training), +11 at level 9(7 bab 4 from SC) and +18 at level 15 (11 from bab 7 from SC) i think extracts, possibly mutagen, and inspiration makes up for d8 hit points, and what other weaknesses he May have.
he May have to share the killing spot ligth with the other bruges but he dosent have to be ashamed of entering the stage.
I think loosing Bab and hit points to get what is a sure but limited UMD is questionable.
If you just want that, take that half racial trait that loose the favored class but gets a little bonus in using stuff like a 1st level caster.
A question comes to mind: If I am a Bloodrager level... 2 for example, can I use spell trigger items (wands for example) without UMD, if they are for spells on my spell list?
Ok, so I've listened to all the advice, and decided to revert to an option that tries to mix the best of both worlds, that being the Warpriest action economy with my stubborn wish to throw in wand zapping :D
Does this guy look legit?
Dwarf bloodrager 1/monk (master of many styles) 1/warpriest (sacred fist) of Irori 1
Blessings: Strength, Law
Traits: Fate's Favored, Magical Knack
Feats:
CL1 Bloodrager: Power Attack
CL2 Monk of Many Styles: Pummeling Style
CL3 Warpriest Sacred Fist: Pummeling Charge
The remaining progression would be as Warpriest
Noticeable items for the time being: Wand of Shield
Doubts: I'm in doubt regarding armor - can/should I use it? More important, how do the Wisdom bonuses to AC from monk/sacred fist interact?
I see an immediate disadvantage, which is the two levels dipped and the hit to BAB (not that obvious on a Flurry), but apart from that, do you think it would work?
IIRC, sacred fist warpriest doesn't let you bypass prereqs on style feats.
You need two levels of MoMS monk (mom's monk) for that.
If aasimar is an option (and your GM doesn't overrule silly faq decisions) aasimar (mutagenic)fighter 1/wiz 1(sorc might work better due to wis(sage bloodline) or cha dependany)/EK 10 is good for buff potential. In games where you know when you will fight and have prep-time regularly, it probably outperforms magus.
The stat boosts from aasimar is a bit out of place, but daylight SLA lets you qualify for things that want 3rd level arcane spells.
Looking at PFSRD:
Prerequisite(s): Improved Unarmed Strike, Pummeling Style; base attack bonus +12, brawler level 8th, or monk level 8th.
If I have IUS and Pummeling Style, am I not fulfilling the prereqs? Thus being allowed to take Pummeling Charge?
BaB +12 or monk 8th.
MoMS can use monk feats to bypass the prereqs, but for sacred fist feats you have to go for the old-school way.