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As the title asks. Which would be better for PFS, an Arcane Duelist Bard Kitsune or an Eldritch Scion Magus Kitsune? On one hand, the bard has a lot more skills, yet on the other hand, I don't see this character really being a performer. Of course, this is remedied by them simply taking perform oratory as their sole perform skills and being something of a over the top swordsman who inspires with rousing speeches and fights with a dramatic flare, bantering with enemies and such as appose to being an actual performer by trade such as a musician, actor etc which is something I distinctly do not see this character as. However, Eldritch Scion fits almost perfectly the fluff I want(charismatic magical swordsman) however, I have heard that, as an archtype, it pretty much sucks. However, I want to know if it sucks so much that it's not even worth it, or is it have enough going for it to make it at least a bit salvagable? Also...a magus doesn't get a lot of skills without int, so that is another detractor against the eldritch scion.
Does anybody have any advice for me on which option I should go with? Either way, the character will be a dex-based melee fighter, using a rapier with fencing grace taken at level 5...and either way the fluff will remain largely the same as long as I stick to Oratory as my sole perform skill if I go bard.(I know that dervish dance can get me dex to damage 2 levels sooner, HOWEVER, the dervish route blocks me out of using my main weapon until level 3 since scimitars can't be finessed before dance, while the rapier route lets me use my character's weapon of choice straight from level 1 onward. While damage will be lower before level 5, both magi and bards have plenty of in-class ways to boost damage so I will still be dealing ok damage before I hit fencing grace.) So yeah, any advice for me on this matter?
I think both are fine but the magus can get the level to damage deed and that is where he wins out.
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True, I forgot totally about that. Though before level 8 I'll be a bit swift-action starved if I go that route since as an eldritch scion I'll need a swift action to use spell combat and a swift action to use that deed. However, post level 8 that becomes a non-issue....so yeah, Magus definitely ends up dealing more damage in the long run....but is also more of a late bloomer then the arcane duelist here since pre-level 8 I can't spell combat AND use that deed at the same time. However, prior to level 8 spell combat + spellstrike is still good damage, and the deed actually helps with damage some by giving me an alternative source of extra damage to spell combat that can be used with a non spell-combat spell strike.
Seeing how much I'll be dipping into my arcane pool, I think the feat that grants me more pool points may be almost necessary, here.
The arcane dueligt is not that duel like until level 5-6 ish when his Martial stuff starts to show. I think you would be better of with a normal magus, pehaps even a kensai, and then just accept that int 14 is ok for a start and then use the cha to Pick up amateur swasbuckler for panache and the oppotune parry riposte, for even better defense of your sky high dex. With frost bite you can have dex and 2 times level to Dam around level 5. And no reason to ever Exchange your haramaki for henviser armor.
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A Kitsune will never have enough intelligence to make it as a standard magus, NEVER, not without dumping wis, cha and strength as well, and the strength hit will REALLY hurt prior to level 3 when fencing grace/dervish dance comes online. 14 is NOT, I REPEATE, NOT ENOUGH INT for a magus....not at all. So normal magus is out of the question, here, since Kitsune race matters more to me then the magus class. I suppose Arcane Duelist would be the best option for a Kitsune, here, other then swashbuckler or a fullcaster like a sorcerer or oracle, but I don't want a straight martial or a straight caster...I want a combo deal....or at the least a character that can be self-suficient in PFS while still having spellcasting.
However, that does lead me to ask, how "self-suficient" do you really need to be in Pathfinder Society? Would playing a fullcaster like a Sorcerer or Oracle not be as bad as I think it may be despite the fact tables are random and you may not always have compitent meat shields? If so I may just go with a fullcaster and forget the hybrid character concept entirely, likely an Oracle since I at least get a d8 and medium armor to protect me some(and possibly cha to AC and/or an animal companion depending on the mystery I choose.).
A Kitsune will never have enough intelligence to make it as a standard magus, NEVER, not without dumping wis, cha and strength as well, and the strength hit will REALLY hurt prior to level 3 when fencing grace/dervish dance comes online. 14 is NOT, I REPEATE, NOT ENOUGH INT for a magus....not at all. So normal magus is out of the question, here, since Kitsune race matters more to me then the magus class. I suppose Arcane Duelist would be the best option for a Kitsune, here, other then swashbuckler or a fullcaster like a sorcerer or oracle, but I don't want a straight martial or a straight caster...I want a combo deal....or at the least a character that can be self-suficient in PFS while still having spellcasting.
However, that does lead me to ask, how "self-suficient" do you really need to be in Pathfinder Society? Would playing a fullcaster like a Sorcerer or Oracle not be as bad as I think it may be despite the fact tables are random and you may not always have compitent meat shields? If so I may just go with a fullcaster and the hybrid character concept entirely.
Why is 14 not enough int for a magus?
Edit: but you dont need my premission to play a sorcerer or a oracle, so knock your self out.:)|
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Because spell DCs. Unless your exclusivly casting shocking grasp and buffs, your DCs will suck hard. HARD. Also, your arcane pool and class features suffer A LOT. Your not a battle cleric, your casting stat matters for more then just being able to cast a few buffs per-day. I simply put, refuse to play a gimped character, and a magus with 14 int IS gimped.
I don't know what I want to play, TBH. I'd prefer to play a fullcaster, but with the random table setup PFS has your not gurinteed a compitent meat shield/defender every time you game. Thats what has me scared to play a fullcaster like a sorcerer or an oracle: survivability. If anybody with more PFS experence could give me an idea about how survivable fullcasters are from level 1 onward in PFS I'd be grateful...
Because spell DCs. Unless your exclusivly casting shocking grasp and buffs, your DCs will suck hard. HARD. Also, your arcane pool and class features suffer A LOT.
You dont want to be casting a lot of spells with save any way, ok you May not want to take arcane arcuracy but that is a questionable move any way if you expect 4-5 battles a Day.
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Just...no. There is no way you will convince me 14 int is good for a magus, because it's not. So please stop trying to win me over to your line of your thinking because it won't happen. I do not feel comfortable playing a magus with anything less then 16 int and thats FINAL. I apologize if I'm comming off as rude but I've made it very clear that I have no intrest in playing a magus with 14 int before. So I would be very grateful if we could move this conversation in a different direction since both of us have our opinions and neither of us is going to change the other's mind. Thank you.
As for Sorcerer and Oracle, I assume that they are not survivable enough at low levels without a gurinteed compitent meat shield to consider or is it just that nobody who's reading this thread has enough experence in PFS to attest to the survivability of level 1 fullcasters in PFS scenarios?
Just...no. There is no way you will convince me 14 int is good for a magus, because it's not. So please stop trying to win me over to your line of your thinking because it won't happen. I do not feel comfortable playing a magus with anything less then 16 int and thats FINAL. I apologize if I'm comming off as rude but I've made it very clear that I have no intrest in playing a magus with 14 int before. So I would be very grateful if we could move this conversation in a different direction since both of us have our opinions and neither of us is going to change the other's mind. Thank you.
As for Sorcerer and Oracle, I assume that they are not survivable enough at low levels(like level 1, since I hate pre-mades and don't intend to GM anytime soon.) to consider or is it just that nobody who's reading this thread has enough experence in PFS to attest to the survivability of level 1 fullcasters in PFS scenarios?
Suit your self. And good luck.
Thanks. I do appreciate the advice, but I just am not comfortable playing a "sup-optimal" character like a magus with less then 16 int. Thanks for understanding....and still, nobody has anything to say on sorcerers or oracles and therir potentinal survivability at level 1 in PFS scenarios?
You dont need a PHD in optimisation to play in PFS. Just make a character you want to play and he will do fine. At level 1 everybody is one crit from death. But the loss of dying there is not that big. Oracle is only a good fortitude save away from a cleric, in the defense department, and is under all circumstances defensively stronger than a magus at 1-3.
If high power and Kitsune is both important. I suggest a serpentine bloodline sorcerer. That way you can charm and dominate Lots of stuff with the ...person Line of spells. Pehaps tattooed archtype if you dont like all bloodline powers.|
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Actually, no. The Oracle will have at max 17 AC, and thats only if he takes at least 14 dexarity. He cannot afford chainmail at level 1. He can MAYBE get 18 AC, BUT only if he takes a mystery that gives cha-to-ac, like lore or lunar. A magus with 18 dex and a chain shirt(which can be afforded at level 1) will have a fighter-worthy 18, making his AC better then the AC of every oracle except oracles of lore, nature or lunar oracles. So no...the oracle dose not have "better" defenses then the magus under ALL curcumstances. He has SLIGHTLY worse defenses normally, and in very situational cases has equal defenses. The only way for an oracle to "surpass" a magus' defenses at level 1 is to be a Lunar Oracle and take the animal companion revilation as you now have a reliable, perminent meat shield built into your class. Nature can kinda do that too, but it gets terrible animal choices...or rather...one choice...a horse....which, IMO, is pretty lackluster as far as animal allies are concerned.
Blade Adept Arcanist. 3 levels Arcanist, 2 levels Daring Champion Cavalier, take the Magical Knack trait to keep your caster level at 5, then get the Eldritch Blade exploit.
With Arcane Armor Training and a Mithral Chainshirt, as long as you have a swift action, you don't need to worry about AFC.
It's pretty unique! You could take a dip into Archaeologist Bard to remove AFC with light armor altogether and pick up Archaeologist's Luck as a combat boost.
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There isn't a problem, I am just stating that, overall, the defenses of an oracle are not "always better" then the defenses of a magus at level 1. If I had to say anything, I'd say they are roughly equilivilent, with the magus having slightly better AC but the Oracle making up for it with the ability to self-heal.(Provided they didn't choose to cast inflicts)
There isn't a problem, I am just stating that, overall, the defenses of an oracle are not "always better" then the defenses of a magus at level 1. If I had to say anything, I'd say they are roughly equilivilent, with the magus having slightly better AC but the Oracle making up for it with the ability to self-heal.(Provided they didn't choose to cast inflicts)
If AC is the only number you look at and oracle have dex 14 and magus 18 then you are rigth. But i Think it looks like you dont want advice.
Good luck.
I am always a fan of the arcane dualist. The ability to do semantic components of spells with you weapon is very good, especially paired with the ability of it being your arcane bond item, wow. I am also partial to the musical aspect of the class to. So I am totally bias here. Singing off heavy metal and creepy funny songs lyrics; oh the fun.