I want to make a Binder that Binds Angels/azatas/archons/agathions are there any class Guides?
There's nothing right now. I'm working on a Guide to Planar Binding, but it probably won't be done before the holidays.
I can tell you some of my thoughts. If you're a good-aligned character, this is morally kinda dubious. Mechanically, you probably need to cast Magic Circle against Good to keep your conjured creatures in the circle, and that's an evil-aligned spell: just casting it is a blight upon your soul. In alignment terms, is it really a good act to compel good celestials to work for you under threat of punishment and without conpensation? If you're chaotic good, what the heck are you doing enslaving a good creature? If you're lawful good, how do you justify jumping the chain of command like this and taking an angel away from its duties?
Yes, yes, arguing about alignment is a mug's game -- and 10X yes, players are endlessly creative in coming up with justifications as to why it's ENTIRELY appropriate for the angel to be forced into helping the player's PC kill the monsters and take their stuff! But, really, it's kinda sketchy.
Now if you're not good-aligned... well, the good news is you don't have those ethical or mechanical concerns. The less good news is, you're ticking off a bunch of powerful outsiders who have no reason to look kindly upon you. How bad this is depends on a bunch of different factors, but at a minimum they're going to be legitimately annoyed. And if you're trying to make them do stuff that's against their alignment -- which, since you're nongood, you probably are -- pretty soon you're going to have the heavens kinda pissed at you. My personal take is that chaotic outsiders are more likely to hold lingering, bitter personal grudges about being forced to serve against their will (bad) while lawful outsiders are more likely to tell their bosses and organizations, who may then mount some sort of organized counterattack against you (worse). But either way, it seems like asking for trouble.
Anyway. If you're still interested in trying this, say more, tell how. What kind of caster are you talking about here, and what exactly do you want to accomplish? Is this theorycrafting, an NPC, or something you might actually want to play?
Doug M.
Just want to point out that there is an aasimar oracle archtype called the Purifier that pretty much does the whole 'compel good outsiders" thing (eventually). No alignment restriction, but the flavor seems to be "anti evil outsiders", with the ability to command good outsiders at later levels. Maybe you could flavor it as your angelic heritage letting you act as a "celestial commander" of sorts if your mission was important enough, although you might struggle not to piss it off if you called it up just to make you a coffee or something.
What about Protection from Law/Chaos instead? Does it absolutely have to be Protection from Good?
Without getting into alignment debates, I can envisage a certain type of LG wizard deciding that those lazy Azatas need to be pressed into more useful, productive, service; while CG works on a maverick level: "hey, Archon, you were gonna be ordered around anyway, amirite? I'm just bypassing the chain of command"
Just my 2c.
ginganinja wrote: Just want to point out that there is an aasimar oracle archtype called the Purifier that pretty much does the whole 'compel good outsiders" thing (eventually). Yeah, I don't love that archetype. You can compel good outsiders by... channeling? In the same manner that evil clerics can compel undead? Um.
Darkness Rising wrote: What about Protection from Law/Chaos instead? Does it absolutely have to be Protection from Good? No, fair point -- it doesn't. So you could be a CG character and use Protection from Law to trap an archon. (It does have to be Protection from Good if you're trapping a NG angel, mind.)
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Without getting into alignment debates, I can envisage a certain type of LG wizard deciding that those lazy Azatas need to be pressed into more useful, productive, service; while CG works on a maverick level: "hey, Archon, you were gonna be ordered around anyway, amirite? I'm just bypassing the chain of command"
Just my 2c. I like this! It's creative, but it's not inconsistent with the alignment system. It does leave you at a mechanical disadvantage in that your character can only bind good celestials of one alignment, but that still leaves you a lot of options. (There are a lot of published celestials out there.)
Also, presumably you could still go after LN, CN, and lower level NN outsiders. (Higher level NN outsiders, you run into the problem that you need a circle to contain them, and there's no Magic Circle Against Neutrality.) That gives you really quite a lot to work with.
Doug M.
If you aren't strict on what you consider "binding", you could always grab the Summon Good Monsters Feat and use the Summon Monster spells to summon various celestial creatures to aid you. That's basically what I'm doing with my character, and it works out well. Of course, at low levels, you won't be able to summon those 4 classes of creatures that you mention, and will have have to settle for celestial animals. As consolation prizes go, celestial eagles are quite nice. :-)
I assume the OP was talking about binding with the Planar Binding spells, which is an entirely different thing from Summoning.
-- Thinking about this, in mechanical terms you'd probably want to play a NG character (gives you access to two classes of good celestial). If you can theorycraft a high level character from scratch, you want a sorceror for the high Cha. But if you were playing this up from low levels, you'd want a wizard... binding needs a lot of utility spells, and the sorceror isn't really competitive until after 15th level.
DMDM's Guide to the Diabolist has much of relevance here, though of course it's aimed at devils rather than celestials.
Doug M.
Planar Binding spells are what i'm talking about, character's alignment will be N,CN or CG and they will be a worshiper of Bastet
xavier c wrote: Planar Binding spells are what i'm talking about, character's alignment will be N,CN or CG and they will be a worshiper of Bastet Okay. Will you be playing the character from 1st level? And, have you decided on a class?
Doug M.
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