What is the weakest(lvl wise)character/group of characters you can come up with, that could beat the Pathfinder version of Cthullhu. Anything goes mythic ranks, monster characters, whatever allows you to beat the guy as early as possible.
Scenario 1 - Open field, the characters knew beforehand, the great Old One was coming.
Scenario 2 - Cthulhu is in an underwater temple in a 600'x 300'x 300' room. The characters are not informed before fighting Cthulhu.
EDIT: Munchkinbuilds(Simulakrum army, own demiplane etc.) are allowed, but playable characters are preferred.
Mythic?
Mythic?
Cthulhu is mythic too, so go for it, when needed.
The main thing is being able to consistently make the save DCs against his various abilities. Outside of that he really doesn't have that many hit points. My archer ranger can regularly do about 200 hp worth of damage in a round. If 4 PCs can inflict that in 1 round at best there are two rounds of combat assuming people don't start instantly dying or going insane.
Then there is the problem of permanently keeping him down...which is difficult.
But if you're talking just reducing him to 0 or less hp once...someone should be able to come up with something.
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As an ultimate endgame for a group we ran against Pathfinder's take on Cthulhu. I damn near soloed it what with a level 20 Android Arcane Gun. We had prior knowledge and prep time and he manifested 1000 feet away. Effectively, Timestop to polymorph into a 4 armed creature, set 2 of my pistols to dancing, get off as many buffs as possible. Then as he charged, Quickened Dimension Door and the first feat in the dimensional agility chain. Full attack with six guns against touch. Immune to the fear effect and passed the save. Having the party there was just icing.
Cthulhu wasn't a fun encounter because his high save/die is lame.
When everyone turned on each other afterwards, THAT was fun.
Cthulhu is CR30, so he'd be an end-boss for APL25 characters.
So, technically, a party of 8 lv24 characters would be the "weakest" you could get.
I don't know if Mythic vs Mythic is more in the favor of the players or the monster, but my group only uses Mythic for the monsters, and characters simply level up using the "above level 20" rules and basically required multiclassing/prestige classing. So we'd probably use 8 lv22-24 characters, no Mythic stuff, and obviously no Epic.
Since Cthulhu has control weather at will it is very likely always in the center of hurricane force winds or torrential rains etc, it is also quite likely manifested as its astral projection so killing cthulhu would involve finding where it actually resides.
Cthulhu can also target people with greater dispel at 400 ft then mythic surge to very likely succeed on a caster level check.
There's also Explosive Runes shenanigans per the following threads -
First Explosive Runes
Second Unspeakable Presence
The second one had a genuine question about unspeakable presence, then was derailed into Explosive Runes shenanigans. Long story short, prepared, creative mages might rig a phone book up of explosive runes, summon something that has a SLA to area effect dispel magic and fail the attempt, triggering all the runes at the same time.
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Despite this is not a creation of mine, I'll quickly modify porpentine's One.
Name: One. Race: Human. Class/Level: Qinggong Zen Monk 20. Favoured
Bonus: H∞. Age: 30. Height: 5’. Weight: 130lbs. Alignment: LN. Pointbuy: 14/14/14/7/17/7 = 20.
Str 18 (24), Dex 18 (24), Con 14 (20), Int 7 (9), Wis 28 (34), Cha 7
Initiative +13
Perception +41, Darkvision
Hit Points 233
Armour Class 57, touch 40, flatfooted 50 (class 17, arm 12, dex 7, def 5, nat 5, ins 1)
CMD 67 (base 30, class 17, dex 7, str 7, def 5, ins 1)
Fort +24, Ref +27, Will +30; +2 magic & poison; evasion
Spell Resistance 30, Damage Resistance 10/Chaotic
Speed 90, fly 40
Base Attack +15, Base Flurry +20
CMB +22
Fist +22/+17/+12 (2d10+7, 1d6 energy, cold iron, magic, lawful, adamantine)
Fist vital strike +22 (2d10+7, 4d10, and ditto)
1. Bow deadly +32/+27/+22 (1d8+24, +1 per previous hit/19-20x3, 1d6 nonlethal, nonprovoking, threaten 5’, ignore less than total concealment/cover, all DR bar Epic, ki focus, -1 attack and damage beyond 30’)
2. Bow ki deadly vital strike +32 (2d10+24/19-20x3, 4d10, and as 1)
3: Bow deadly flurry +33/+33/+28/+28/+23/+23/+18 (1d8+28, and as 1)
4: Bow ki deadly flurry +33/+33/+28/+28/+23/+23/+18 (2d10+28, and as 1)
5: Bow ki deadly flurry haste +34/+34/+34/+29/+29/+24/+24/+19 (2d10+28, and as 1)
Traits: Exile, Resilient
Feats:
1st: Toughness
Human: Improved Initiative
Monk 1st: Improved Unarmed Strike
Monk 1st: Perfect Strike (bow, special)
Monk 1st: Precise Shot
Monk 2nd: Weapon Focus (longbow)
Monk 2nd: Point Blank Shot
Monk 3rd: Point Blank Master
3rd: Deadly Aim
5th: Defensive Combat Training
Monk 6th: Specialisation (longbow)
Monk 6th: Improved Precise Shot
7th: Lightning Reflexes
9th: Vital Strike
Monk 10th: Improved Critical (longbow)
11th: Hammer the Gap
13th: Stunning Fist
Monk 14th: Pinpoint Targetting
15th: Improved Vital Strike
17th: Ability Focus (Stunning Fist)
19th: Mantis Style
The Way of One:
* Bow Flurry: no flurry with any other weapon
* Perfect Strike: 20/day, once/round, as part of attack; roll three d20s for one bow attack, with a discard as confirmation if the first threatens
* Zen Archery: Wisdom determines ranged attacks
* Mantis Style: swift, combat duration, +2 stunning DC. One bonus stun/day
* Vows of Cleanliness, Fasting and Truth: no lies, no potions, must remain clean, +11 ki
* Ki Pool: 33/day, swift, self only and one round unless stated:
1= (i) extra bow flurry [one attack], (ii) +50’ bow increment, (iii) +4 dodge armour, (iv) unarmed bow damage, (v) +20 speed or jump, (vi) +5 barkskin [standard, 200 min]
2 = (i) bow ignores total concealment, (ii) restoration [standard], (iii) dimension door 1200’ [move]
3 = (i) bow ignores total cover [shoot round corners], (ii) etherealness [move, 1 min], (iii) shadow walk [standard, 20 hours, self and 20 passengers, DC28w]
* Grasshopper: +20 jump with constant running start
* Reflexive Shot: One makes (and by default does not incur) bow opportunity attacks
* Stunning Fist (Ex): 21/day, once/round, as part of unarmed or bow attack: dc34/36w, stun
* Diamond Soul: Spell Resistance 30
* Quivering Palm (Su): 1x/day, as part of unarmed or bow attack: dc32w, death * Ki Bow: any arrow One fires becomes a Ki Focus weapon
* Hammer the Gap (Ex): cumulative +1 damage/previous hit uninterrupted by misses in a round; this damage is critiplied
* Perfect Self: immune to spells targetting humanoids. DR10/Chaotic
Skills: Acrobatics +27, jump+71 (16 ranks, 3 class, 7 stat, 1 luck/20 class, 24 speed), Fly+17 (1 rank, 7 stat, 1 luck, 4 item, 4 man), Heal+16 (3 ranks, 12 stat, 1 luck), Knowledge Planar+20 (20 ranks, -1 stat, 1 luck), Perception+41 (20 ranks, 3 class, 12 stat, 1 luck, 5 item), Sense Motive+17 (1 rank, 3 class, 12 stat, 1 luck), Stealth +30 (19 ranks, 3 class, 7 stat, 1 luck)
Gear (880,000gp): belt of physical perfection+6 & dwarvenkind (166,350gp, 1lb), tome of wisdom+4 (expended, 110,000gp), manual of strength+4 (expended, 110,000gp), manual of dexterity+4 (expended, 110,000gp), composite merciful str24 longbow+5 (73,100gp, 3lb, hardness 15, hp55), vest of armour+8 (64,000gp, 1lb), ring of protection+5 & counterspells (56,000gp; greater dispel 660gp), headband of wis+6 and int+2 (Know: Planar, 42,000gp, 1lb), ring of evasion & counterspells (31,000gp; greater dispel 660gp), greater bracers of archery (25,000gp), cloak of resistance+5 (25,000gp, 1lb), luckstone (20,000gp), broom of flying (17,000gp, 3lb), boots of speed (12,000gp, 1lb), bottle of air (7250gp, 1lb), ioun stone+1 armour (5000gp), eyes of the eagle (2500gp), handy haversack (2000gp, 5lb), 2 ioun torches (150gp), mwk backpack (50gp, 4lb), 300 arrows (15gp, 45lb), cold iron knuckle (2gp, 1lb), 2 weapon cords, 7gp
In the haversack: 20 monk’s outfits (100gp, 20lbs), 2 holy waters (50gp, 2lb), 2 unholy waters (50gp, 2lb), 5 smoke arrows (50gp, 5lb), 40 blunt arrows (4gp, 6lb), soap (1gp, 2lb), waterskin (1gp, 4lb)
Encumbrance (light 266lb): 67lb with broom. Encumbrance for broom (light 200lb): 194lb
Bonus: H∞. Age: 30. Height: 5’. Weight: 130lbs. Alignment: LN. Pointbuy: 14/14/14/7/17/7 = 20.
Str 18 (24), Dex 18 (24), Con 14 (20), Int 7 (9), Wis 38 (44), Cha 7
Initiative +33 (to be assumed as 53)
Perception +41, Darkvision
Hit Points 283
Armour Class 58, touch 45, flatfooted 51 (class 22, arm 8, dex 7, def 5, nat 5, ins 1)
CMD 72 (base 30, class 22, dex 7, str 7, def 5, ins 1)
Fort +24, Ref +27, Will +35; +2 magic & poison; +10 against mind affecting; evasion
Spell Resistance 30, Damage Resistance 10/Chaotic
Speed 120, fly 40
Base Attack +15, Base Flurry +20
CMB +22
Fist +22/+17/+12 (2d10+7, 1d6 energy, cold iron, magic, lawful, adamantine)
Fist vital strike +22 (2d10+7, 4d10, and ditto)
1. Bow deadly +37/+37/+37 (1d8+30, +1 per previous hit/19-20x4, 1d6 nonlethal, nonprovoking, threaten 5’, ignore less than total concealment/cover, all DR bar Epic, ki focus, -1 attack and damage beyond 30’)
2. Bow ki deadly vital strike +37 (2d10+30/19-20x3, 4d10, and as 1)
3: Bow deadly flurry +38/+38/+38/+38/+38/+38/+38 (1d8+34, and as 1)
4: Bow ki deadly flurry +38/+38/+38/+38/+38/+38/+38 (2d10+34, and as 1)
5: Bow ki deadly flurry haste +39/+39/+39/+39/+39/+39/+39/+39 (2d10+34, and as 1)
Traits: Exile, Resilient
Feats:
1st: Toughness
Human: Improved Initiative (m)
Monk 1st: Improved Unarmed Strike
Monk 1st: Perfect Strike (bow, special)
Monk 1st: Precise Shot
Monk 2nd: Weapon Focus (longbow)
Monk 2nd: Point Blank Shot
Monk 3rd: Point Blank Master
3rd: Deadly Aim (m)
5th: Defensive Combat Training
Monk 6th: Specialization (longbow)
Monk 6th: Improved Precise Shot
7th: Lightning Reflexes
9th: Vital Strike
Monk 10th: Improved Critical (longbow) (m)
11th: Hammer the Gap
13th: Stunning Fist (m)
Monk 14th: Pinpoint Targeting
15th: Improved Vital Strike
17th: Ability Focus (Stunning Fist)
19th: Mantis Style
Mythic: Dual Path (Guardian)
Path abilities:
Fleet Charge;
Always a chance;
Limitless Range;
Armored Might;
Fleet Warrior;
Precision x3;
Adamantine Mind;
Maximized Critical;
And we have to remember that:
He automatically stabilizes when below 0, and dies at double negative constitution;
He has 23 uses of mythic power, and once per round if he rolls 20 on attack rolls he regain 1 use of mythic power.
He has surge +1d12 on any d20. This costs 1 mythic power.
He is at full health after 8 hours of rest.
If he needs to save against a non-mythic effect, if he succeeds he ignores partial effects.
As immediate action he can force a reroll for himself, taking the second throw even if it's worse. This costs 1 mythic power.
He can end as a free action the following conditions; bleed, blind, confused, cowering, dazed, dazzled, deafened, entangled, exhausted, fascinated, fatigued, frightened, nauseated, panicked, paralyzed, shaken, sickened, staggered, and stunned. This costs 1 mythic power and works even if the condition prevent One from taking actions.
He comes back to life whenever One dies, as long he didn't died by a critical hit or coup de grace scored by an artifact.
The Way of One:
* Bow Flurry: no flurry with any other weapon
* Perfect Strike: 20/day, once/round, as part of attack; roll three d20s for one bow attack, with a discard as confirmation if the first threatens
* Zen Archery: Wisdom determines ranged attacks
* Mantis Style: swift, combat duration, +2 stunning DC. One bonus stun/day
* Vows of Cleanliness, Fasting and Truth: no lies, no potions, must remain clean, +11 ki
* Ki Pool: 38/day, swift, self only and one round unless stated:
1= (i) extra bow flurry [one attack], (ii) +50’ bow increment, (iii) +4 dodge armour, (iv) unarmed bow damage, (v) +20 speed or jump, (vi) +5 barkskin [standard, 200 min]
2 = (i) bow ignores total concealment, (ii) restoration [standard], (iii) dimension door 1200’ [move]
3 = (i) bow ignores total cover [shoot round corners], (ii) etherealness [move, 1 min], (iii) shadow walk [standard, 20 hours, self and 20 passengers, DC28w]
* Grasshopper: +20 jump with constant running start
* Reflexive Shot: One makes (and by default does not incur) bow opportunity attacks
* Stunning Fist (Ex): 21/day, as part of unarmed or bow attack: dc44/46w, stun
* Diamond Soul: Spell Resistance 30
* Quivering Palm (Su): 1x/day, as part of unarmed or bow attack: dc32w, death * Ki Bow: any arrow One fires becomes a Ki Focus weapon
* Hammer the Gap (Ex): cumulative +1 damage/previous hit uninterrupted by misses in a round; this damage is critiplied
* Perfect Self: immune to spells targetting humanoids. DR10/Chaotic
Skills: Acrobatics +27, jump+71 (16 ranks, 3 class, 7 stat, 1 luck/20 class, 24 speed), Fly+17 (1 rank, 7 stat, 1 luck, 4 item, 4 man), Heal+16 (3 ranks, 17 stat, 1 luck), Knowledge Planar+20 (20 ranks, -1 stat, 1 luck), Perception+46 (20 ranks, 3 class, 17 stat, 1 luck, 5 item), Sense Motive+22 (1 rank, 3 class, 17 stat, 1 luck), Stealth +30 (19 ranks, 3 class, 7 stat, 1 luck)
Gear (880,000gp): belt of physical perfection+6 & dwarvenkind (166,350gp, 1lb), tome of wisdom+4 (expended, 110,000gp), manual of strength+4 (expended, 110,000gp), manual of dexterity+4 (expended, 110,000gp), composite merciful str24 longbow+5 (73,100gp, 3lb, hardness 15, hp55), vest of armour+8 (64,000gp, 1lb), ring of protection+5 & counterspells (56,000gp; greater dispel 660gp), headband of wis+6 and int+2 (Know: Planar, 42,000gp, 1lb), ring of evasion & counterspells (31,000gp; greater dispel 660gp), greater bracers of archery (25,000gp), cloak of resistance+5 (25,000gp, 1lb), luckstone (20,000gp), broom of flying (17,000gp, 3lb), boots of speed (12,000gp, 1lb), bottle of air (7250gp, 1lb), ioun stone+1 armour (5000gp), eyes of the eagle (2500gp), handy haversack (2000gp, 5lb), 2 ioun torches (150gp), mwk backpack (50gp, 4lb), 300 arrows (15gp, 45lb), cold iron knuckle (2gp, 1lb), 2 weapon cords, 7gp
In the haversack: 20 monk’s outfits (100gp, 20lbs), 2 holy waters (50gp, 2lb), 2 unholy waters (50gp, 2lb), 5 smoke arrows (50gp, 5lb), 40 blunt arrows (4gp, 6lb), soap (1gp, 2lb), waterskin (1gp, 4lb)
Encumbrance (light 266lb): 67lb with broom. Encumbrance for broom (light 200lb): 194lb
One, regardless the situation, acts before Cthulhu (53 against a maximum of 35). While he hits on 11s (10s with haste), he can stop Deadly Aiming to gain +6 to hit, losing 18 to damage. It doesn't matter the damage at first, since Cthulhu must save against DC 44 ( or 46, but let's One be fair) stunning fists on every attack, NOT once per round. Since only 50% of attacks hits, he's out after a single saving throw failed (needing a 15), and One needs a 4 or higher for a hit, he has a 0.42% chance of NOT getting stunned if One decides to full attack (He does). When Cthulhu is stunned, One hits him even on 1s, he just rolls dices for crits (always confirmed, maximized and are x4). Since One's stun stacks, it's just a matter of few round before One kills Cthulhu for the first time. The second time it's just the same thing, but Cthulhu is staggered for 7 round (statistically speaking).
The only thing Cthulhu can use is Unspeakable Presence. One needs to roll two 1, for a 0.25% chance of that happening. If that happens, One dies, returning the day later since Cthulhu doesn't posses an artifact.
EDIT: Since saves are Charisma based One needs 10s for saves, so he has a 25% chance of dying. Much greater but still not enough to stop him, since he can't be killed by Cthulhu.
But lets' follow the scenario;
1) Cthulhu arrives to us (since he is coming) prepared but without specific preparation for One. One acts first and wins.
2) Cthulhu is in his temple, One spawns there without specific reasons. One is surprised but it doesn't make any difference. One acts first, moves near to Cthulhu, wins, and finally returns outside the temple because water can still kill him. For a while.
Done?
Are you assuming there is no ongoing weather affects or can the one fire arrows even during windstorm plus winds?
There's also Explosive Runes shenanigans per the following threads -
First Explosive Runes
Second Unspeakable Presence
The second one had a genuine question about unspeakable presence, then was derailed into Explosive Runes shenanigans. Long story short, prepared, creative mages might rig a phone book up of explosive runes, summon something that has a SLA to area effect dispel magic and fail the attempt, triggering all the runes at the same time.
Fire Resistance 30 means each rune will deal 6 damage at best, you would need A LOT of explosive runes, but in the end you could kill him if you prepare enough.
Are you assuming there is no ongoing weather affects or can the one fire arrows even during windstorm plus winds?
One can't fire with wind that is too strong. At least I didn't found something that allowed this.
But for scenario 1 Cthulhu has no time to set up wind defenses.For scenario 2, there's no wind underwater and One is capable of firing arrows at ridiculously high penalty, which are negated by getting near to Cthulhu.
Despite this is not a creation of mine, I'll quickly modify porpentine's One.
** spoiler omitted **...
I thought immunity to paralysis includes immune to stunned, if not Cthullhu is indeed toast.
Fire Resistance 30 means each rune will deal 6 damage at best, you would need A LOT of explosive runes, but in the end you could kill him if you prepare enough.There's also Explosive Runes shenanigans per the following threads -
First Explosive Runes
Second Unspeakable Presence
The second one had a genuine question about unspeakable presence, then was derailed into Explosive Runes shenanigans. Long story short, prepared, creative mages might rig a phone book up of explosive runes, summon something that has a SLA to area effect dispel magic and fail the attempt, triggering all the runes at the same time.
Explosive Runes deals force damage, not fire damage.
There is, however, the issue of Spell Resistance for each individual rune blast.
Just want to point out that thanks to mythic time stop a 20 wizard 10 mythic tiers automatically wins due to infinity time stop.
So your bar is character level of effective 24 or lower otherwise the wizard auto wins.
People outside Time Stop are invulnerable. You can't touch nothing during those hours. And why you need caster level 24? Just cast it twice! Or extend it with a rod.
Are you assuming there is no ongoing weather affects or can the one fire arrows even during windstorm plus winds?One can't fire with wind that is too strong. At least I didn't found something that allowed this.
But for scenario 1 Cthulhu has no time to set up wind defenses.
For scenario 2, there's no wind underwater and One is capable of firing arrows at ridiculously high penalty, which are negated by getting near to Cthulhu.
Cthulhu has control weather at will, control weather lasts 4d12 hours, seems safe to assume it is always up. And you can have extreme weather underwater.
First time this challenge came around I went with this archer.
Mythic Johnny Bowman Fighter 20, Champion(M) 10
NG Huge Human
lnit +32;
Senses blind sense 30', darkvision 60', low-light vision, true seeing;
Perception +23
DEFENSE
AC 55 (+14 armor, +4 deflection, Dex +6, +1 dodge, +4 insight, +4 luck, +4 morale, +6 natural, +4 sacred, -2 size) Touch 35, Flat Footed 48
HP 394 (20d10+274)
Fort +51, Ref +43, +38 Will
DR 5/-, regeneration 5
OFFENSE
Speed 40', swim 60'
Ranged +5 Distance, Seeking Darkwood Composite Longbow (STR +22) +47/+47/+47/+47/+47/+47/+47 (4d6+77/19-20/x5) Manyshot on first two shots.
Space 15’, Reach 15’
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 22)
6/day – Touch of Rage
STATISTICS
STR 54, DEX 22, CON 28, INT 7, WIS 10, CHA 16
Base Atk +20, CMB +45, CMD 61
Feats: Arcane Strike, Cosmopolitan, Deadly Aim, Eldritch Heritage (Orc), Greater Weapon Focus (Longbow), Greater Weapon Specialization (Longbow), Improved Critical (Longbow), Improved Eldritch Heritage, Improved Initiative, Improved Precise Shot, Iron Will, Magical Aptitude, Manyshot, Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Skill Focus (Survival), Toughness, Weapon Focus (Longbow), Weapon Specialization (Longbow), Deadly Aim (Mythic), Improved Critical (Mythic), Improved Eldritch Heritage (Mythic), Improved Initiative (Mythic), Manyshot (Mythic), Rapid Shot (Mythic), Weapon Focus (Mythic), Weapon Specialization (Mythic), Optimistic Gambler (T), Reactionary (T)
Special Abilities: Bravery +4, Armor Training, Armor Mastery, Weapon Training, Weapon Mastery, Hard to Kill, Amazing Initiative, Recuperation, Mythic Saves, Force of Will, Unstoppable, Immortal, Legendary Hero, Surge 1d12, Extra Mythic Feat, Extra Mythic Feat, Extra Mythic Feat, Limitless Range, Precision, Precision, Precision, Enhanced Ability, Mythic Sight, Mythic Sight
Gear: Belt of Physical Perfection +6, Boots of Speed, Bracers of Archery Greater, Cape of the Mounteback, Efficient Quiver, Gloves of Dueling, Headband of Alluring, Robe of Arcane Heritage, 4000 Arrows, Srcoll (3x Giant Form II), +4 DISMaL Ring of AC Boosting, +5 SIMPLR Ring of Save Boosting, +5 Mithril Full Plate
Permanent Spells: Giant Form II, Gravity Bow
Tactics- Autowin Initiative (Declare 20 for 52 after roll), Use Amazing Initiative to activate Touch of Rage, Swift to Active Arcane Strike, Full Attack (7 attacks, 9 arrows), Use surge ability to make at least one attack a critical hit, Avg 1183 hp damage. For Cthulhu, during time when it is reforming move out to 1000 ft And then wait to full attack while staggered after reforming.
I'm really not too familiar with mythic, do you have some ability that lets you fire during high winds?
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Possibly a lv 20 lunar oracle with wasting curse. Use form of the beast to turn into another great old old one bokrung and beat the s*%* out of him. Not sure if you can really beat the s&@$ out of him but at least you're immune to most of the stuff you need to save against(is unspeakable presence fear a mind affecting effect?).
Basically any Charisma based caster with a mount (probably Nature Oracle (or any Oracle with Animal Ally) for divine protection and paragon surge (Improved Eldritch Heritage-Arcane)) is set to win if an ally is willing to blood money them into infinite charisma. Can be done as early as 10th level (11th if including eldritch heritage). Just pick a good save or suck without spell resistance and you're set.
I'm really not too familiar with mythic, do you have some ability that lets you fire during high winds?
High winds from what? Johnny Bowman will autowin initiative and drop Cthulhu in 1 round.
I'm really not too familiar with mythic, do you have some ability that lets you fire during high winds?High winds from what? Johnny Bowman will autowin initiative and drop Cthulhu in 1 round.
control weather at will which lasts 4d12 hours, i think it only fair to assume it is always on unless Cthulhu decides otherwise.
i suppose if we assume that the first encounter is "Cthulhu has just manifested into existence for the first time ever" sure, but that seems like a silly setup to me.
More like Cthulhu just arrived where you are. What now?
Johnny Bowman says, "I shoot him a bunch."
If a monster has an ability at will it will almost surely always be using it, control weather seems like a no brainer to me.
Generally I'm a fan of the whole beastmass challenges etc, but sometimes i think people willfully ignore the stat block of monsters.
Anyway, here's how i'd stat out an encounter with Cthulhu.
Cthulhu has arisen! It is likely near the middle of the 4 mile wide hurricane coming towards shore, go kill it brave adventurer before we all die!
Weather
Hurricane-Force Wind: All flames are extinguished. Ranged attacks are impossible (except with siege weapons, which have a –8 penalty on attack rolls). Perception checks based on sound are impossible: all characters can hear is the roaring of the wind. Hurricane-force winds often fell trees.
Wind Force | Wind Speed | Ranged Attacks Normal/Siege Weapons | Checked Size | Blown Away Size | Fly Penalty
Hurricane | 75–174 mph | Impossible/–8 | Large | Medium | –12
1 The siege weapon category includes ballista and catapult attacks as well as boulders tossed by giants.
2 Checked Size: Creatures of this size or smaller are unable to move forward against the force of the wind unless they succeed on a DC 10 Strength check (if on the ground) or a DC 20 Fly skill check if airborne.
3 Blown Away Size: Creatures on the ground are knocked prone and rolled 1d4 × 10 feet, taking 1d4 points of nonlethal damage per 10 feet, unless they make a DC 15 Strength check. Flying creatures are blown back 2d6 × 10 feet and take 2d6 points of nonlethal damage due to battering and buffeting, unless they succeed on a DC 25 Fly skill check.
Cthulhu auto succeeds it's fly check.
Tactics
Cthulhu uses a move action each round to fly 200 feet towards the shore and otherwise holds turn. If it notices something that doesn't die immediately it will greater dispel then quicken feeblemind it (range for both is 400ft)
If it reasonably believes something is nearby but can't spot it then Cthulhu will gate in a Guardian Dragon which will use it's breath weapon first round then limited wish to give PC -7 to it's next save.
Cthulhu will not close to melee until it uses up all summons and gates, if a PC comes in to attack it will greater sunder the primary weapon before attacking.
Nothing too complicated, level 20 casters shouldn't have any problem.
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Most of these tactics remind me of a similar thread about a high level party vs Lucifer.
Where most of the posters assumed that the original lord of all devils would fight the party toe-to-toe, solo.
I could pretty easily beat Queen Elizabeth II in a fist-fight. That doesn't mean I stand even a remote chance of actually doing so.
Cthulhu is the high-priest and godhead of an entire race of beings, thousands upon thousands of which are with him in R'lyeh. Not to mention millions of Deep Ones that would probably be in attendance were R'lyeh to rise.
It's a much easier fight to try to prevent the stars from ever becoming right in the first place.
If a monster has an ability at will it will almost surely always be using it, control weather seems like a no brainer to me.
Generally I'm a fan of the whole beastmass challenges etc, but sometimes i think people willfully ignore the stat block of monsters.
Anyway, here's how i'd stat out an encounter with Cthulhu.
Cthulhu has arisen! It is likely near the middle of the 4 mile wide hurricane coming towards shore, go kill it brave adventurer before we all die!
Weather
** spoiler omitted **Tactics
** spoiler omitted **...
A ballista is essentially a Huge heavy crossbow
Johnny Bowman is huge in size and using a huge longbow. He will take the -8 penalty. At 1100 ft out he will full round Cthulhu using the tactics stated in his stat block. DPR is 1048.32. IF by some insane circumstance he rolls 52d6 and every one of them comes up a 1, then he still does 933.12 damage. Drops him in one round.
Johnny Bowman might want to save an arrow or three for the thousands of Star Spawn. Just sayin'.
It's not in the stat block.
If you want to propose a scenario then go for it.
Are you accounting for 50% damage reduction?
Also remember True seeing is 120 feet range.
At -8 you are hitting every time?
Are you accounting for 50% damage reduction?
Also remember True seeing is 120 feet range.
At -8 you are hitting every time?
Bow has a seeking enhancement which negates all % miss chances. The DPR number I gave includes the possibility of missing (which is why the number is fractional.) I'm using the standard DPR formula.
The damage formula is h(d+s)+tchd.
h = Chance to hit, expressed as a percentage
d = Damage per hit. Average damage is assumed.
s = Precision damage per hit (or other damage that isn't multiplied on a crit). Average damage is again assumed.
t = Chance to roll a critical threat, expressed as a percentage.
c = Critical hit bonus damage. x2 = 1, x3 = 2, x4 = 3.
Non-Euclidean (Ex)
Cthulhu does not exist wholly in the physical world, and space and time strain against his presence. This grants Cthulhu a deflection bonus to AC and a racial bonus on Reflex saves equal to his Charisma modifier (+12). His apparent and actual position are never quite the same, granting him a 50% miss chance against all attacks. True seeing can defeat this miss chance, but any creature that looks upon Cthulhu while under the effects of true seeing must succeed at a DC 40 Will save or be afflicted by a random insanity (this is a mind-affecting effect). The save DC is Charisma-based.
It isn't clear if seeking would by pass this ability or not, I would probably rule against seeking but I could see it either way.
granting him a 50% miss chance against all attacks. True seeing can defeat this miss chance
Seeking: Only ranged weapons can have the seeking ability. The weapon veers toward its target, negating miss chances that would otherwise apply, such as from concealment. The wielder still has to aim the weapon at the right square. Arrows mistakenly shot into an empty space, for example, do not veer and hit invisible enemies, even if they are nearby.
Strong divination; CL 12th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, true seeing; Price +1 bonus.
Emphasis mine.
I'm not sure how you can read that and possibly come to the conclusion that it doesn't work.
RAW says it ignores miss chance, period. RAI with "His apparent and actual position are never quite the same" is clearly concealment a la displacement. The seeking enchantment requires true seeing, so essentially the arrows and/or the bow are seeing His True Form™ but no one cares if they go insane, they're inanimate objects.
@Kthulhu: I realize the whole point of existential horror (aka everything Lovecraft ever wrote) is that You Can Not Win, but you are being silly. Cthulhu is a CR 30 encounter, the millions of theoretical star-spawn (probably should be less since they're freakin' huge and in one city) are a much higher encounter level because it's an army. Therefore you should have an army of level 20 adventurers, and I bet on the army of adventurers at that point.
Alternatively, Johnny Bowman STILL has no trouble continuing to fire for as long as his Abundant Ammunition spells (he DOES have a whole party assisting) and other bonuses hold out. BTW, there's no FAQ saying that spell doesn't stack with Named Bullet, which ignores DR, adds damage, and makes all hits critical threats against aberrations. For that matter, Johnny Bowman's comrades have a pretty good shot at dropping their own weather control.
Of course at that point regeneration kicks in. while Star-Spawn are vulnerable to fire and fire's really easy make lots of and one well-placed teleport circle gives you all the lava you'll ever want...sorry I'm not sure where I was going with this. Oh and numbers, Johnny Bowman's only got so many shots per round and an endless horde of starspawn are charging at him en masse because you made it happen that way and he can't be standing on a flying carpet that's headed away from them...right I lost the thread again.
I mean, if you WANT the party to lose, you can keep changing the statblock and the setup and you can keep making them miss the ever-moving goalposts. But as written, most of the above work.
Johnny is already overcoming Cthulhu's DR, and his crits auto-confirm.
I actually thought about giving him a few portable holes full of arrows and a couple of bound trolls to squire his arrows.
But to your greater point, some people just have a real need to believe that martials cant accomplish the challenges of casters. It's difficult, and the casters are definitely more playable. But martials, built well, can be effective against the big guns in the game.
Yeah, in straight damage, martials should almost always win. That's their thing. Casters only do better if they're fighting a specific kinda target (huge mass of squishies) or you're counting the effects of their buff spells. Evocation is weak.
Mind you, I still prefer to play casters, but that's because I like rolling support, plotting, and being a nonchalant smartass.
Question: does your auto-confirm stack with Named Bullet's Auto-threat? Because that would be hilarious.
It would stack, but you would have to overcome SR. Johnny is already grabbing a crit every round by using mythic surge to push his die roll into threat.
Looks like Johnny takes Cthulhu down without a struggle really. We could up the hurricane to a tornado to negate even siege ranged attacks but that seems a little too cheesy to me.
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Looks like Johnny takes Cthulhu down without a struggle really. We could up the hurricane to a tornado to negate even siege ranged attacks but that seems a little too cheesy to me.
In all fairness to Cthulhu, Johnny was built at 20/10 for the express purpose of fighting Cthulhu.
And it can still be stopped by another spellcasting party member to give Johnny a clear shot with either Mythic Endure Elements or a counter-casting of control weather.
Mythic Endure doesn't include wind speed.
Yeah, Beyond the high save DCs Cthulhu doesn't have much going for it.