wizard cleric is the ultimate utility character.
If you want a trapsmith there's a 2nd level spell that temporarily gives you trapfinding if you want that. Or just take one level of rogue. Then just max out Perception and disable device.
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If you really want utility go for an Archeologist Bard/Sorcerer. The Archeologist has plenty of skills and more importantly bardic knowledge. Put a single point into every class skill then cast Heroism and use Archeologist Luck. With Fates Favorite your bonus to all skills is huge for all skills, and bardic knowledge will boost knowledge’s even further.
The biggest boost to utility is spells. This way you get two sets of spells based on the same stat. Play a half elf and use the favored class bonus for Bard for extra performance and the Sorcerer for Extra spells. I assume that you can take both bonuses each level because half elves have two favored classes.
Consider archaeologist bard/swashbuckler also due to the gestalt of the combined pools. You could also mix in paladin for great saves. Fates favored trait is a must, as mentioned above.
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Brawler/Investigator
Be Batman!
What classes are the rest of the party?
If you are interested in Archeologist, but don't want to loose Bardic Performance, take Evangelist Cleric as your other class. Pump WIS and CHA. Once you do maybe you could see if your DM will give you Zen Archery as a feat and you can be effective in combat without getting into melee.
The Archeologist bard is basically a rogue that has magic. Take the trait criminal to get disable device as a class skill, and fates favorite to boost your archeologist luck and there is nothing a rogue can do that you can’t do better. Use your bard spells to boost your abilities with things like invisibility, heroism, gaseous form and the like.
I would still take the sorcerer for the other class. Your group has the combat down and the combat spells seem to be taken care of. What you are lacking is utility spells. Not buffing spells, but thing like teleport, fly, clairvoyance, and mages magnificent mansion. Also divination, enchantment and illusion spells will allow you to do a lot more sneaky stuff than any skill especially at higher levels.
The Umbral bloodline seem to give the most for this including hide in plain sight at 9th level.
Between these two classes you will probably have every utility spell in the book.
Take Mysterious Stranger's concept 1 step further by going with a Half-orc with the Sacred Tattoo trait and the Lingering Performance feat. The fact that you can also grab Endurance to (easily) qualify for Diehard is just gravy.
you just became one tough, lucky sumb!tch.
Plus, half-orcs qualify for the human FCB for either bard and sorcerer ... meaning you can diversify that spells known list EVEN FURTHER!
Since Psionic classes are allowed, you may also want to consider Investigator/Psion. There are many utility powers that are not available as spells, and both classes use INT as their primary stat.
Are you using point buy? If so, how many points?
...The current characters are a magus/summoner, fighter/cleric, slayer/soulknife, wilder/bard, and gunslinger/alchemist. So I feel that combat is REALLY covered and spell casting is pretty well covered. It's the sneaky, trap disabling, lock opening, investigating, info gathering, etc., char that I'm looking to play.
Druid/XXX(not Rogue!) is great at most of those tasks. Wildshaping into air or earth elementals hard to beat at sneak or at investigating as is a dog running around in an urban environment. On top of that Summon Nature's Ally gives your slap happy pals flanking buddies.
all that and without the suck of the Rogue and you have a solid spell list.
If you are going for a druid then use inquisitor for the other class. That would work give him the skills he needs for the investigation and sneaky things he wants. Wild shape last hours per level so when you first get it you can remain in animal form for 4 hours. At 5th level you can pick up Natural Spell to allow you to cast spells in wild shape. By 6th level you can spend 12 hours a day in wild shape, and by 8th you are up to all day. The only thing this character would not be able to do would be to disarm magical traps. In most campaigns that is probably not a big deal, but in some it can be important.
I still think the Archeologist Bard/Umbral Sorcerer is the best way to go. Just make sure to pick up lingering performance and a race that gets +1 round of performance per day as a FCB. While many of the spells are on both lists this is not a bad thing. Normally both the sorcerer and the bard have such limited spell selection they have to make every spell count. This way you can afford to pick up some situational spells because you will be able to get the other spells you need with the other class.
Aura of the Unremarkable is a great spell for pulling off completely outrageous things, but it is very limited in scope so most spontaneous casters will probably avoid it. This would be a perfect spell for this character.
Shadow Projection is another spell that would be very useful for this character. The ability to become a shadow to scout out an area is huge.
Empiricist Investigator and Wizard.
The god of skills meets the god of skill-replacement spells.
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Investigator (Empiricist)/Wizard with a serious Int focus sounds like the way to go. Grab the Student of Philosophy Trait and you can base the vast majority of skills on Int as well as your spellcasting.
Investigator provides skills, while Wizard provides utility spells on top of those provided by Investigator Extracts. It's really about as much of a utility build as possible outside going Investigator/Bard...and you already have a Bard.
I think I figured this out. So the archeologist's luck feature replaces the bardic performance feature. Therefore, any feats, or racial features, etc., that would normally affect bardic performance, would instead affect archeologist's luck, right?
Exactly Lingering Performance also triples the number of rounds.
I had a couple of ideas more for flavor than optimization perhaps.
Investigator and Archeologist are popular suggestions, what about combining those?
There is also an Investigator archetype for Rogue. That could be a very interesting combination with the Investigator class and get you extra skills per level.
If you are interested in spell casting, there is also the Sage Sorcerer as an INT casting option as an alternative to the Wizard.
If you haven't seen it yet, google the Pathfinder X to Y document for ideas and switching around ability modifiers for all sorts of powers.
Most GM's won't allow prestige classes and gestalt to stack, but the idea of a mystic theurge/arcane trickster tickles me pink.
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I had a couple of ideas more for flavor than optimization perhaps.
Investigator and Archeologist are popular suggestions, what about combining those?
There is also an Investigator archetype for Rogue. That could be a very interesting combination with the Investigator class and get you extra skills per level.
The issue with these ideas is that the abilities are highly redundant in some ways. Identical Good Saves, same BAB, similar 6-level spell lists in the case of Investigator and Archaeologist, both Luck and Studied Combat requiring Swift actions to activate, and so on. Two more divergent Classes seem a good idea, IMO.
Both the investigator and the archeologist bard have a lot of overlap that does not take advantage of the gestalt rules. Both have 6 skill points per level, both have the same combat ability and saves. You would get both bard spells and extracts but not much else. The same is going to be true for the rogue.
With sorcerer you get much stronger magic and a bloodline. Basically the sorcerer is trading away a lot of combat for magical power. Full 9th level casting is a lot more powerful then extracts and offers a lot more versatility and utility.
The original poster is not interested in combat so that eliminates many of the classes. An archeologist bard/paladin for example would be a lot better in combat and have much better defenses.
The current characters are a magus/summoner, fighter/cleric, slayer/soulknife, wilder/bard, and gunslinger/alchemist. So I feel that combat is REALLY covered and spell casting is pretty well covered.
Nope and nope. The only class combo that makes sense, unless everyone rolled at least three stats above 16, is wilder/bard, and he is the only caster who would probably build a caster, not a gish. There is also no full arcane caster.
So I'd suggest to roll Arcanist. Seeing how DSP stuff is allowed, the other side would be Vizier for being hard to kill, skill bonuses, and backup damage/utility.
Play a half elf and use the favored class bonus for Bard for extra performance and the Sorcerer for Extra spells. I assume that you can take both bonuses each level because half elves have two favored classes.
nop. you get the fevored class only when you take a level in the faovrd class. that mean ehwn he levle as bard he get the BARD(and only the bard) fevored calss bonus.) and when he level as the sorcerer he'll get the sorcerer fev class bonus. getting one fev class has nothing to do wit hthe other's bonus. you can have eve n12 fev classes(human with the extra fev class feat) yo ustill get only one bonus for the class you just leveld in.( UNLESS yo utake the trait "find kin". or however it is called trait.in that case you still get the fev class you picked, but even if you took that you get +1 hp and +1 skill)
nop. you get the fevored class only when you take a level in the faovrd class. that mean ehwn he levle as bard he get the BARD(and only the bard) fevored calss bonus.) and when he level as the sorcerer he'll get the sorcerer fev class bonus. getting one fev class has nothing to do wit hthe other's bonus. you can have eve n12 fev classes(human with the extra fev class feat) yo ustill get only one bonus for the class you just leveld in.( UNLESS yo utake the trait "find kin". or however it is called trait.in that case you still get the fev class you picked, but even if you took that you get +1 hp and +1 skill)Play a half elf and use the favored class bonus for Bard for extra performance and the Sorcerer for Extra spells. I assume that you can take both bonuses each level because half elves have two favored classes.
He is gaining levels in both classes using the gestalt rules. So each level he gains a two classes.
Both the archeologist bard/sorcerer mix and the investigator/wizard will be very similar.
The archeologist will be better at spotting things other than traps. Trap finding only applies to detecting traps. The archeologist will also disable traps and open locks faster.
Archeologist luck vs. inspiration is fairly close. Both have limited pools that may run out. Inspiration has the advantage of being unlimited for some things, but also has to be used individually. Since using inspiration on a saving throw is an immediate action you can only use it on a single saving throw. It also requires you to use more for combat uses so may run out quicker. Archeologist luck basically requires lingering performance. It applies to everything that it qualifies in the round and also increases damage. Inspiration will be better for skills if you pick up the right talents. Archeologist luck is going to be better in combat.
Magic wise the bard has spells vs. the investigators extract. Extracts only affect the investigator unless he spends a talent to affect others. Even when they affect others it is a single character so is often less powerful. The big advantage is that you can know unlimited number of extracts; the down side is you have to memorize the right one. The bard gets several spells early, Heroism being a good example. He also gets cantrips. His spells can also affect multiple targets and can do more than just boost the character. The downside is he gets a limited number. Overall I would call it a draw.
As far as talents it would seem that the investigator has the advantage because he gets more of them. This is actually an illusion because there are some he almost has to take. The investigator is going to want expanded inspirations, underworld inspiration and infusion if he is concentrating on being the sneaky thief type. So he has to either spend feats for extra inspirations or wait till 9th level to pick up a rogue talent. The archeologist bard actually has a couple of talents built in. He gets the equivalent of fast picks, and quick disable for free. This means he can actually get his first talent by 4th level.
The investigator gets poison use, studied combat and studied target.
The bard gets evasion, uncanny dodge, bardic knowledge, and lore master.
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Both the archeologist bard/sorcerer mix and the investigator/wizard will be very similar.
This is true.
The archeologist will be better at spotting things other than traps. Trap finding only applies to detecting traps. The archeologist will also disable traps and open locks faster.
Eh. The Investigator can go Empiricist and use Int instead of Wis on Perception. That plus Inspiration and, well, he's likely a whole lot better than the Archaeologist at traps and on par otherwise.
Archeologist luck vs. inspiration is fairly close. Both have limited pools that may run out. Inspiration has the advantage of being unlimited for some things, but also has to be used individually. Since using inspiration on a saving throw is an immediate action you can only use it on a single saving throw. It also requires you to use more for combat uses so may run out quicker. Archeologist luck basically requires lingering performance. It applies to everything that it qualifies in the round and also increases damage. Inspiration will be better for skills if you pick up the right talents. Archeologist luck is going to be better in combat.
You're forgetting Studied Combat. With that, the Investigator is much better at straight combat. +1/2 level on attack and damage is a much higher bonus than archaeologist's luck starting about 8th level, even with Fate's Favored. The Archaeologist does definitely win out on Saves, though.
Magic wise the bard has spells vs. the investigators extract. Extracts only affect the investigator unless he spends a talent to affect others. Even when they affect others it is a single character so is often less powerful. The big advantage is that you can know unlimited number of extracts; the down side is you have to memorize the right one. The bard gets several spells early, Heroism being a good example. He also gets cantrips. His spells can also affect multiple targets and can do more than just boost the character. The downside is he gets a limited number. Overall I would call it a draw.
This is a fair comparison, but I'll just note that a lot of the Archaeologist's advantages vanish given the presence of another Bard in the group (which there is) who can do that stuff, and picking Wizard as a second class shores up most of Investigator's faults (if you want to cast Haste on the party...simply do so as a Wizard).
As far as talents it would seem that the investigator has the advantage because he gets more of them. This is actually an illusion because there are some he almost has to take. The investigator is going to want expanded inspirations, underworld inspiration and infusion if he is concentrating on being the sneaky thief type. So he has to either spend feats for extra inspirations or wait till 9th level to pick up a rogue talent. The archeologist bard actually has a couple of talents built in. He gets the equivalent of fast picks, and quick disable for free. This means he can actually get his first talent by 4th level.
This is true to some degree, but I think you're exaggerating the early need for Expanded Inspiration. I mean, it's great, but you don't need it as soon as physically possible or anything.
The investigator gets poison use, studied combat and studied target.
The bard gets evasion, uncanny dodge, bardic knowledge, and lore master.
This assumes a lack of Archetypes. Empiricist does quite a bit better here than straight Investigator, IMO, as does Mastermind. I also feel like including Studied Combat, probably the single biggest attack boosting class feature in the game, in a list of afterthoughts like this is a weird choice. studied combat is absurdly badass.
You need to decide what kind of game you want to play. With a gestalt character you can either diversify (two dissimilar classes) and run into action economy issues during combat, or specialize (two similar classes) and do one thing really well. Specializing in skill monkey could be good, but what would you do in combat?
Your healer is going to be engaged in melee, your buffer is going to be blasting, and the other caster is going to be in melee as well. It seems that you might need to diversify to help your party best. If you go skill monkey on one side and controller/debuffer on the other, you won't have to worry about action economy in combat because you'll have one job. Out of combat you are trap finding, puzzle solving and maybe even facing a little with the Bard.
I'd say your best bet is whatever flavor of skill monkey on one side (and I wouldn't rule out Ninja either) and either Wizard or Sage Sorcerer on the other. Either option also give you a familiar that can help you in both roles.
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If you are looking at straight up Utility I recommend A Bard/ScrollMaster Wizard. It really pops at ten, but until then you can have an shield bonus as a wizard that also let's you have spells at the ready as the scroll blade and shield count as in hand and ready. At ten you can use your caster level in place of a scrolls, essentially giving you plenty of excess slots. Couple it with the Bard's flexibility and you have a very "Gambit" style character.
If you're looking more on the martial side of the utility I recommend going Hexcrafter Bladebound Magus/Spellsage Wizard. you lose some of the Bards floating buffs and tricks, but gain; a scaling magic weapon, access to some wicked SLAs, great combat ability, and spontaneous casting from 3 additional spell lists. Best of all at level six you can do anything you want. I'd invest into Kirin style with this build as opposed to Dervish Dance.
Normally being able to use INT for some skill is going to big, but in this case it will not be as valuable. The player is rolling for stats not using a point buy, and they have already been rolled. The obvious place for the 11 is in STR which means the next lowest stat is a14, and the highest stat is a 17 (19 after racial adjustment). The difference is only +1(+2). If he goes bard I would put the 16 in INT.
The bard gets a straight +1/2 per level on all perception, disable device and knowledge skills. The investigator gets +1/2 per level on disable device and perception rolls to spot traps. The investigator does not get the bonus on perception to spot an ambush or notice anything but a trap. This is like getting 6 extra skill points per level for the bard vs. ½ or maybe ¾ for the investigator. Also the ability of a bard to take 20 on a knowledge skill is something an investigator can’t do. At 10th level a bard can perform all skill untrained. Admittedly by this point the only thing that this will apply to is professional skills which are of limited use.
Studied combat takes a move action instead of a swift action. It also applies to only a single target and only applies to melee attacks. Archeologist luck applies to all attacks including spells.
Overall the investigator is going to be a bit better at skills, but the bard will be better at combat. Now the original poster is not trying to be a major combat monster, but you still want to be able to contribute something and more importantly to survive. This is where I see the bard has the edge.
I have never said that the bard is better at skills than the investigator. The investigator will obviously be better at skills overall, but the bard is not that far behind. The bard is going to do better in combat and survivability. Evasion and better saves due to archeologist luck being able to be used for all saves instead of just one means he will be able to deal with area of effect damage a lot better. Uncanny Dodge means that he gets his full AC even when flat footed or facing an invisible attacker.
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Normally being able to use INT for some skill is going to big, but in this case it will not be as valuable. The player is rolling for stats not using a point buy, and they have already been rolled. The obvious place for the 11 is in STR which means the next lowest stat is a14, and the highest stat is a 17 (19 after racial adjustment). The difference is only +1(+2). If he goes bard I would put the 16 in INT.
If going Investigator/Wizard that difference gets much bigger with levels, as all stat-boosting resources go to Int. 30 Int being expected by level 20, and around 26 by level 12. Even by level 6 or 7, I'd expect a 22.
That last is probably a +4 on Wisdom based skills, equal on Charisma, and a +3 on Int based skills for the Investigator...all not counting Inspiration. It's also not counting Bardic Knowledge or the Archaeologist bonus to Perception, but hey.
The bard gets a straight +1/2 per level on all perception, disable device and knowledge skills. The investigator gets +1/2 per level on disable device and perception rolls to spot traps. The investigator does not get the bonus on perception to spot an ambush or notice anything but a trap. This is like getting 6 extra skill points per level for the bard vs. ½ or maybe ¾ for the investigator. Also the ability of a bard to take 20 on a knowledge skill is something an investigator can’t do. At 10th level a bard can perform all skill untrained. Admittedly by this point the only thing that this will apply to is professional skills which are of limited use.
All true, but Inspiration gives an effective +3.5 (or 4.5) to all of those. Possibly quite a bit more if going Half-Elf. Even with only a bit higher of a bonus from Int...well, you wind up with some advantages, even when including the Archaeologist's Luck. Let's look at level 6 Perception, shall we?
An Empiricist Investigator (with Int of only 20, assuming he's got no Headband yet) has a +14. An Archaeologist Bard with wis 14 (the highest score you wanna put there) also has a +14. The Investigator can add Inspiration on top of that, which is slightly better than Archaeologist's Luck at this level. Now, on maxed out Knowledge skills, the Investigator's still got only a +14, while the archaeologist has a +15...but the Investigator's got free Inspiration use on those, which makes up for the difference even including the Archaeologist's Luck.
By 12th, doing the same comparison, the Archaeologist has +23 Perception, +24 on maxed Knowledge skills (+27 and +28 when using luck...but ), while the Investigator (with Int 26) has +23 Perception, and +23 to maxed out Knowledge skills...but can make both those +27.5 more or less at will via Inspiration with the right Talents (which you've got plenty of at this point). So...when using Luck, they're on par, when not using it, the Investigator's better.
The same pattern basically continues as they level up. Now, the Archaeologist can theoretically pull ahead with adding Int and Wis to his Cha headband...but that costs a lot of money that could probably be better used on other items.
Studied combat takes a move action instead of a swift action.
Until you grab Quick Study. So...for 4th level and 4th level alone.
It also applies to only a single target and only applies to melee attacks. Archeologist luck applies to all attacks including spells.
Sure...but only on attack, not damage. Few spells need a +2-5 bonus on attack rolls, given the whole Touch Attack thing. And attack spells generally suck anyway compared to save-or-suck ones.
Overall the investigator is going to be a bit better at skills, but the bard will be better at combat. Now the original poster is not trying to be a major combat monster, but you still want to be able to contribute something and more importantly to survive. This is where I see the bard has the edge.
Uh...Archaeologist gets +5 bonuses to to-hit, damage, and Saves, at most (with Fate's Favored). Investigators double that on to-hit and damage with +10. That makes Archaeologist better at Saves, certainly, but less good at melee combat by quite a bit.
I have never said that the bard is better at skills than the investigator. The investigator will obviously be better at skills overall, but the bard is not that far behind. The bard is going to do better in combat and survivability. Evasion and better saves due to archeologist luck being able to be used for all saves instead of just one means he will be able to deal with area of effect damage a lot better. Uncanny Dodge means that he gets his full AC even when flat footed or facing an invisible attacker.
Depends on what you mean by combat. It's certainly more durable vs. spells, especially those where Evasion applies, but the Investigator is better at offensive physical combat by quite a bit. Still, if we're talking full caster, that's very possibly irrelevant making Archaeologist a god choice survivability-wise.
A couple of thing to keep in mind about studied combat is that you don’t get it until 4th level. It only applies to a single melee target, and does not work on a target with concealment. You also have to use a move action to activate it every time. This is not to say that it is worthless, it’s actually a decent ability, but has a lot of limitations. This is what that rouge should have instead of sneak attack.
Archeologist luck requires a single swift action to start and its abilities apply to all attacks, damage, saves and skills. While its usefulness on spells may not be that important it still works on them. More importantly it works on ranged combat. Both the bard and investigator have proficiency in short bows. This character will probably have a decent DEX but only an 11 STR. He will probably be wearing no armor so his AC will not be the best. Ranged combat is a lot better for this particular character than melee.
Let’s assume an 8th level character. With a single swift action the bard can increase his chance to hit and damage with a bow, and improve his saving throws. The investigator on the other hand is using a move action and then may have to use his standard action to move in to attack. This means he does not get an attack until the second round of combat. In the meantime the bard has attacked twice. The next round the bard attacks twice without having to worry about being attacked. The investigator can now attack but will also be able to be attacked back. Round three the target goes down, but there are still other targets. The bard will simply chose a new target and take his full attack. The investigator now has to spend a move action to get his studied target and then may still need to move to the new target. At this point the bard has attacked 6 times to the investigators 2 or 3 times. The investigator has may have also taken some damage.
I think either one of the combinations would work it really depends on what the player wants.
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A couple of thing to keep in mind about studied combat is that you don’t get it until 4th level. It only applies to a single melee target, and does not work on a target with concealment.
True that you don't get it until 4th level...but the one target thing is basically meaningless unless you're killing more than one enemy in melee per turn, which is pretty unlikely. And if you are, that's what the Domino Effect Talent is for.
And the concealment thing is actually untrue. It's debatable on the damage (there's a whole discussion on the subject of concealment and precision damage that I'm not gonna get into here)...but just flat-out wrong on the attack bonus. You need to be able to see your target, which means Invisibility cancels it (barring See Invisibility, anyway), but no other concealment effect does so.
You also have to use a move action to activate it every time. This is not to say that it is worthless, it’s actually a decent ability, but has a lot of limitations. This is what that rouge should have instead of sneak attack.
Uh...as mentioned, this is only true for one level. At 5th, you take Quick Study and it's now a Swift Action. And 1 Swift Action per foe isn't any worse than one every three rounds like an Archaeologist.
Archeologist luck requires a single swift action to start and its abilities apply to all attacks, damage, saves and skills. While its usefulness on spells may not be that important it still works on them. More importantly it works on ranged combat. Both the bard and investigator have proficiency in short bows. This character will probably have a decent DEX but only an 11 STR. He will probably be wearing no armor so his AC will not be the best. Ranged combat is a lot better for this particular character than melee.
That really depends. He could easily layer on Shield Extracts and a Mage Armor spell and get a +8 AC that way. And as of Fencing Grace, killing stuff with Weapon Finesse is a rapier is very viable.
Additionally, his Cha will be the 11 as an Empiricist, since with Student of Philosophy, Charisma is almost utterly meaningless. So he could easily go Str 16 Dex 15 and have the same AC as the Bard. Indeed, an Empiricist can casually go:
Str 16 Dex 15 Con 14 Int 19 Wis 14 Cha 11
While an Archaeologist/Sorcerer skill monkey will need stats more like this:
Str 11 Dex 15 Con 14 Int 16 Wis 14 Cha 19
And the two are still on par on social skills, to boot.
Now, it is true that ranged has some serious advantages as opposed to melee for a caster, but it's also rather Feat intensive, which is less than ideal for a full caster. 5-7 Feats to be good at it is a lot more than the 1-4 needed for melee combat (the Strength version needs Power Attack and only Power Attack), allwing more Feats for Spell Focus, Item Creation, Metamagic, and Extra Investigator Talent Feats.
Let’s assume an 8th level character. With a single swift action the bard can increase his chance to hit and damage with a bow, and improve his saving throws. The investigator on the other hand is using a move action and then may have to use his standard action to move in to attack. This means he does not get an attack until the second round of combat. In the meantime the bard has attacked twice. The next round the bard attacks twice without having to worry about being attacked. The investigator can now attack but will also be able to be attacked back. Round three the target goes down, but there are still other targets. The bard will simply chose a new target and take his full attack. The investigator now has to spend a move action to get his studied target and then may still need to move to the new target. At this point the bard has attacked 6 times to the investigators 2 or 3 times. The investigator has may have also taken some damage.
Again, this assumes a lack of Quick Study on the Investigator's part. Ie: The single most essential combative Investigator Talent. It's thus much like comparing melee and ranged damage numbers while giving the archer all the Feats they need but ignoring the existence of Power Attack.
It also ignores Inspired Weapons. Which are great. But that's a bit more understandable.
I think either one of the combinations would work it really depends on what the player wants.
This I agree with wholeheartedly. :)
The way I see it the archeologist bard does a better job of a thief. He can pick up the two rouge talents needed to be a great thief sooner than the investigator. He already gets the equivalent of fast picks and quick disable for free, so all he needs is fast stealth and trap spotter. His spells are also for the most part tailored to the role a little better. Getting heroism as a second level spell is a big advantage. I consider that spell a must have spell.
The investigator on the other hand has a long list of things he is going to want to spend his talents on before he will be able to get those. He is going to want expanded inspirations, amazing Inspirations, underworld inspirations, quick study, infusion, and probably empathy. I probably missed some even with that. The inquisitor can spend feats to get extra talents, but at that point he does not have them to spend on other things.
The problem with the investigator is they have so many good talents. Unfortunately you can’t have them all. This is a good problem for a class to have because it means that you can have a variety of investigators that are all different. It also means the character takes a little longer to come together. Once he does he is great, but waiting for that to happen can frustrate some players.
The way I see it the investigator is more specialized. A lot of his abilities are limited but taking the right talent can open them up. The problem comes is that talents are a limited resource and it may be a while before you can get all the ones you want. They have the flexibility to do anything well just not everything at once. If you want to concentrate on combat there are a talents that will make you very good at this, but this means your abilities in other areas are not as strong as they could be.
The one area that I see the bard doing better in than the investigator is magic. The bard has a larger selection of spells than the investigator has extracts. True the bard has a limited number but his selection is better. Look at their 6th level list. Almost half of the alchemists extracts are form of the X variants. The bard gets many spells earlier than the wizard. A bard gets overwhelming presence as a 6th level spell; to a wizard this is a 9th level spell. He also gets shadow evocation, and shadow conjuration which is a very versatile spells. And he gets cantrips. Detect Magic, Mage Hand, Message, and Sift are all very useful.