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When worn, this simple brown robe confers great ability in unarmed combat. If the wearer has levels in monk, her AC and unarmed damage is treated as a monk of five levels higher. If donned by a character with the Stunning Fist feat, the robe lets her make one additional stunning attack per day. If the character is not a monk, she gains the AC and unarmed damage of a 5th-Level monk (although she does not add her Wisdom bonus to her AC). This AC bonus functions just like the monk's AC bonus.
At 1st level, a brawler counts her total brawler levels as both fighter levels and monk levels for the purpose of qualifying for feats. She also counts as both a fighter and a monk for feats and magic items that have different effects based on whether the character has levels in those classes (such as Stunning Fist and a monk's robe). This ability does not automatically grant feats normally granted to fighters and monks based on class level, namely Stunning Fist.
So, the unarmed damage part is pretty straight forward - you treat your unarmed damage levels as a Brawler five levels higher.
But how does the AC part work?
I could see three possibilities:
a) You are not a Monk even if your class levels count as Monk levels, so you only gain the AC bonus of a 5th level monk (+1 dodge AC) when not wearing armor and unencumbered, and you don't get Wisdom-to-AC.
b) You are treated as a Monk, so you gain the AC bonus of a monk five levels ahead of your level when not wearing armor and unencumbered, and you don't get Wisdom-to-AC.
b) You are treated as a Monk, so you gain the AC bonus of a monk five levels ahead of your level when not wearing armor and unencumbered, and you also get Wisdom-to-AC, because that would be part of the AC of a monks five level ahead of your level.
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Let's see, strictly RAW I'd interpret it as this.
You have levels in monk per martial training so you would get the AC of a monk five levels higher than your brawler level. Following on to the second to last sentence (i.e. "if the character is not a monk...") you are not a monk so you get the bonuses of a 5th level monk--however you already have higher bonuses from brawler level + 5 per the the second sentence (i.e. "if the wearer has levels in monk...") so they would not stack and you would just get the higher bonus and that would leave you with "although she does not add her Wisdom bonus to her AC".
So that would be your first b) choice--add 5 levels to your brawler class and use that AC and don't use wisdom to AC.
Now here's the second part of that situation. How does the Monk Robe interact with Close Weapon Mastery (CWM)? Does it then give you an ECL of +1 for your Unarmed Strike in reference to weapons for CWM?
The brawlers unarmed goes up by 5 levels and the brawlers ac goes up 5 levels.
For any feat or item that says fighter or monk, sub brawler in for that and it's pretty clear how it will work for a brawler.
Now here's the second part of that situation. How does the Monk Robe interact with Close Weapon Mastery (CWM)? Does it then give you an ECL of +1 for your Unarmed Strike in reference to weapons for CWM?By RAW it doesn't. If you use CWM, your monks robe gives you no benefit (aside from AC)
True the Monk Robe does not mention anything about CWM; however, it does give you effective +5 levels to your Unarmed Strike, which is what the CWM bases off. Therefore in theory, it should grant an ECL +1 to your CWM damage. Though I suppose this would fall into the realm of table variance.
The brawlers unarmed goes up by 5 levels and the brawlers ac goes up 5 levels.
For any feat or item that says fighter or monk, sub brawler in for that and it's pretty clear how it will work for a brawler.
It's not - first question I'd have to your answer is: are we talking about bonus AC that works with light armor, like a brawler's, or one that doesn't, like a monk's?
Monk's robe does say: "This AC bonus functions just like the monk's AC bonus." So it's not the same kind of AC bonus.
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Basically the easiest way to examine the Monk's Robe on a brawler is to replace "monk" with "brawler" throughout most of the item rules. If we look at it in that light, the way a Monk's Robe works for a brawler would be as follows:
Brawler is treated at ECL+5 for their AC bonus and Unarmed Damage (which still allows you to wear light armor). The Brawler does not get Wis to AC just like as listed in the item description. Hopefully that helps.
When worn, this simple brown robe confers great ability in unarmed combat. If the wearer has levels in brawler, her AC and unarmed damage is treated as a brawler of five levels higher. If donned by a character with the Stunning Fist feat, the robe lets her make one additional stunning attack per day. If the character is not a brawler, she gains the AC and unarmed damage of a 5th-Level brawler(although she does not add her Wisdom bonus to her AC). This AC bonus functions just like the brawler's AC bonus.
But that's not what Martial Training says. Martial Training says that the Brawler is treated as a Monk, not that the Monk benefits noted on magic items are treated as Brawler benefits.
But that's not what Martial Training says. Martial Training says that the Brawler is treated as a Monk, not that the Monk benefits noted on magic items are treated as Brawler benefits.
The answer to your question is in the Martial Training itself, Wiz, because that is exactly what it is saying. Martial Training was added to allow Brawler to utilize items from prior sources to their full effect without the need of specifically stating each and every item/feat, or rewriting all previously existing items/feats.
She also counts as both a fighter and a monk for feats and magic items that have different effects based on whether the character has levels in those classes (such as Stunning Fist and a monk's robe).
Therefore with the way Martial Training is written, any feat/item that specifies a Fighter or Monk, should also be treated as reading Fighter/Brawler or Monk/Brawler. I hope that clarifies things for you, Wiz!
It doesn't.
Because what I'm saying is that Martial Training makes magic items treat the PC as a Monk/Fighter, but it doesn't treat the effects it grants in any other way.
To me, Monk's Robe would read:
When worn, this simple brown robe confers great ability in unarmed combat. If the wearer has levels in brawler, her AC and unarmed damage is treated as a monk of five levels higher. If donned by a character with the Stunning Fist feat, the robe lets her make one additional stunning attack per day. If the character is not a brawler, she gains the AC and unarmed damage of a 5th-Level monk (although she does not add her Wisdom bonus to her AC). This AC bonus functions just like the monk's AC bonus.
I consider this the RAW reading, though probably not the RAI. That's why I'd like an official answer.
Well, I do not really know how else to explain it... So I will allow someone else the opportunity to perhaps explain this better. Good luck to you!
Secret Wizard. It's as answered as you're going to get.
Does the magic item have different effects if you're a monk? Yes.
What are those different effects?
AC and unarmed damage is treated as a monk of five levels higher
So since I count as a monk for this feat I raise my AC and unarmed damage by 5 levels. I have both those features so both those features are raised by 5 levels.
Just as Faelyn said, they added that line so that they wouldn't have to change all those feats and items and whatever else is fighter/monk. So what they intend is for you to sub brawler whenever it says fighter or monk.
Unless they already plan an addressing this in the rewrite, I don't imagine this getting an answer. I doubt enough people will FAQ this to make it noticeable, and as far as I can reason, people are already give the correct answer out.
Edit- for robe treat brawler as monk. robe says boost monk level. again for robe treat brawler as monk. So robe boost brawler level.
The effect of adding monk levels to a monk is something that the ability specifically says to treat brawler as monk for the item. That would mean all references to monk or brawler.
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When worn, this simple brown robe confers great ability in unarmed combat. If the wearer has levels in monk, her AC and unarmed damage is treated as a monk of five levels higher. If donned by a character with the Stunning Fist feat, the robe lets her make one additional stunning attack per day. If the character is not a monk, she gains the AC and unarmed damage of a 5th-Level monk (although she does not add her Wisdom bonus to her AC). This AC bonus functions just like the monk's AC bonus.
At 1st level, a brawler counts her total brawler levels as both fighter levels and monk levels for the purpose of qualifying for feats. She also counts as both a fighter and a monk for feats and magic items that have different effects based on whether the character has levels in those classes (such as Stunning Fist and a monk's robe). This ability does not automatically grant feats normally granted to fighters and monks based on class level, namely Stunning Fist.
Let's try the substitution allowed by Martial training:
When worn, this simple brown robe confers great ability in unarmed combat. If the wearer has levels in Brawler, her AC and unarmed damage is treated as a Brawler of five levels higher. If donned by a character with the Stunning Fist feat, the robe lets her make one additional stunning attack per day. If the character is not a Brawler, she gains the AC and unarmed damage of a 5th-Level monk (although she does not add her Wisdom bonus to her AC). This AC bonus functions just like the monk's AC bonus.
The last, italicized, phrase isn't modified by martial training.
Martial training say: "She also counts as both a fighter and a monk for feats and magic items that have different effects based on whether the character has levels in those classes (such as Stunning Fist and a monk's robe).", the italicized part don't require figther or monk levels, it give an effect.It work like a monk's AC bonus. And the monk AC bonus say:
"AC Bonus (Ex): When unarmored and unencumbered, the monk adds his Wisdom bonus (if any) to his AC and his CMD. In addition, a monk gains a +1 bonus to AC and CMD at 4th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every four monk levels thereafter, up to a maximum of +5 at 20th level."
Technically the way the martial training is written you wouldn't substitute brawler for monk in monks robe, you would instead substitute Monk for Brawler in the character's class.
However I am sure that is not intended, and basic reading comprehension does tell us that doing the substitution the other way makes more sense.
The monks robe does 2 things for a monk by virtue of that character being a monk. It does one thing for someone with stunning fist (whether a monk or not) and it does two things for a character who is not a monk.
For the brawler, only the first aspect is significant, since they count as a monk. So the two things that it effects are unarmed damage and AC bonus. Luckily they have both of those features, so it is easy to calculate. They don't inherit the restrictions of the monks AC bonus, because they are not gaining an AC bonus feature that they didn't have (this would apply only for the non-monk non-brawler effect of the robe). If the brawler didn't have an AC bonus feature, perhaps being lost due to an archetype the would gain NO ac bonus, because they would still count as a monk (thus not qualifying for the non-monk stuff), and if being 5 levels higher doesn't give them more AC, then they don't get more AC.
So just look at the Brawlers unarmed damage chart and add 5 level to it to figure out damage, look at the brawlers ac bonus, add five levels to it and figure out what the bonus is.
But the AC bonus is not the same, it has different prerequisites. That confuses me in the reading of the Robe.
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Despite having seperate prereqs you ARE a monk for the purposes of this item, and you just so happen to have a class feature called AC bonus for the robe to advance. Easy peasy.
Same conclusion was come to with a similar PFS item which increased movement speed, that is i dont get a monks increased movement speed, i get a brawlers increased movement speed, which is still 0.
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So to add to this issue. How should this be treated when you are multi-class brawler and monk?
For the AC do you count as being 5 levels higher in each class?
Now THATS a question. Id rule it only works with one or the other, not both. As for RAW? I think Both. I think this question needs its own faq.
Hm. Would that be a good trade off tho? Robe vs Light Armor?
Hm. Would that be a good trade off tho? Robe vs Light Armor?
You can wear both if you want, but depending how the bonus AC works, it might be a dichotomy, yeah.
Also, if you can only wear light armor OR the robe for some reason, light armor is always better because you can enchant Brawling on it.
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Secret Wizard's right - RAW you gain the AC bonus of a Monk 5 levels higher. Which, in turn, grants Wisdom to AC.
No, you do not, as the item specifically says it doesn't grant Wis to AC.
Consider the 3.5 version.
This simple rope belt, when wrapped around a character’s waist, confers great ability in unarmed combat. The wearer’s AC and unarmed damage is treated as a monk of five levels higher. If donned by a character with the Stunning Fist feat, the belt lets her make one additional stunning attack per day. If the character is not a monk, she gains the AC and unarmed damage of a 5th-level monk. This AC bonus functions just like the monk’s AC bonus.
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Secret Wizard's right - RAW you gain the AC bonus of a Monk 5 levels higher. Which, in turn, grants Wisdom to AC.No, you do not, as the item specifically says it doesn't grant Wis to AC.
Consider the 3.5 version.
This simple rope belt, when wrapped around a character’s waist, confers great ability in unarmed combat. The wearer’s AC and unarmed damage is treated as a monk of five levels higher. If donned by a character with the Stunning Fist feat, the belt lets her make one additional stunning attack per day. If the character is not a monk, she gains the AC and unarmed damage of a 5th-level monk. This AC bonus functions just like the monk’s AC bonus.
Robe, Monk's
When worn, this simple brown robe confers great ability in unarmed combat. If the wearer has levels in monk
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At this point the item checks if the wearer is a monk...
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Martial Training says...
At 1st level, a brawler counts her total brawler levels as both fighter levels and monk levels for the purpose of qualifying for feats. She also counts as both a fighter and a monk for feats and magic items that have different effects based on whether the character has levels in those classes (such as Stunning Fist and a monk's robe). This ability does not automatically grant feats normally granted to fighters and monks based on class level, namely Stunning Fist.
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Yes, definitely a monk. At first level, a brawler is a monk as far as magic items are concerned. Now we need to check if the monk increase to ac and unnamed damage is a feat that is accessed by level increases... No, it is just part of the table as increases for having monk levels just like saves, not bonus feats that give access. So, at first level, she is a level 1 monk for the robe. What happens if she is a monk?
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, her AC and unarmed damage is treated as a monk of five levels higher.
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So, being a monk and having levels in monk for the purposes of the item, her AC and unarmed damage would be treated as a monk of five levels higher. A first level brawler would be a 6th level monk with regards to gains in AC and unarmed damage.
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If donned by a character with the Stunning Fist feat, the robe lets her make one additional stunning attack per day.
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The item does not grant stunning fist, so this does not matter unless the character also gained stunning fist some other way. But, stunning fist would also work as it would on a monk.
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If the character is not a monk, she gains the AC and unarmed damage of a 5th-Level monk (although she does not add her Wisdom bonus to her AC). This AC bonus functions just like the monk's AC bonus.
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The item only does not grant wis bonus on AC if the character is not a monk.
Ignore the second to last sentence, as it is based on the character NOT being a monk, and the item considers the character a monk.