Has anyone tried a Strength focused kineticist yet? I've been pondering through the playtest but unable to do any actual gaming personally. I was wondering how, specifically, a natural attack focused kineticist would do? I'm aware that you could still do a Dex bases natural attacker as well and it could possibly pull ahead properly geared. Mainly just thinking a little outside of the normal kineticist box.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe tengu is the pfs race with the most innate natural attacks, at 3? That's 3 primary natural attacks at 1d3+str + 1d6 / per 3 levels if using kinetic fist. A telekinetic can possibly use a claw for kinetic blade, depending on gm viewing on the wording since kinetic blade is different for telekinetics. Also since blade doesn't provoke atm I'm assuming fist doesn't either?
Another possible build is a half-orc telekinetic whip or net user, I'm unsure if a telekinetic's kinetic blade would hit touch AC if using a touch attack weapon or if it'd target normal AC?
I understand the negatives in going this way, I was assuming that you'd forgo focusing on Dex and possibly making con secondary as well.
I'm guessing there is a minimum number of natural weapons in which you need in order to compete, and possibly needing to pick up pounce somehow.
I'm just wondering if power attacking with a 2h telekinetic blade could be worth it? I'm not as sold on the weapon based one but a telekinetic gets to have the benefit of reach from just kinetic blade itself since you are enhancing the object in your hand.
Edit: At one point kinetic blade was intended to provoke and needed a concentration check to cast defensively.
I think the main issue with full-attacking with loads of natural weapons is at low levels, that's a load of burn you can't avoid with the move action minus 1 burn technique. Until you get infusion specialization at level 5, getting 1 burn to full attack more than two or three times a day at low levels is gonna get a kineticist killed.
Level 5 onward it's more viable. Bunch of attacks are nice of course.
The issue is strength and wild talent choice. Kinetic Blade doesn't add Str mods, but Con instead like original blasts so it's hard to not simply justify Weapon Finesse; also I don't think telekineticist's can use Kinetic Blade on natural attacks, it states "for telekineticists, you transfer the power of your kinetic blast to any object held in one hand". Kinetic Fist would keep your natural die damage + Str mod, but you only get 1 out of 3 d6's of your blast as extra damage and I'm not sure if that's worth it when not making touch attacks on an average BAB class. Power attacking a one-handed touch attack kinetic blade could be cool. By that level medium/heavy armor proficiency can be afforded and vital strike might be worthwhile if not caring about extra attacks.
my build of superman is a strength based kineticist (he's a Aether Kineticist 5 at the moment).
I have +10 to hit, and do 1d3+1d6+7 damage. at 7 I plan on taking fire, and at 15 it will be water.
He has done pretty good so far as the main tank of the party.
Also, at pre-level 5, you can just use your move action to negate the burn from kinetic blade/fist.
I actually played two of them and got better results from level 1 to 20, with issues only in the first three levels of playing:
One is XVIZVIOR, a LizardFolk pyroKineticist with natural attacks, improved unarmed strike with 2WF and using Kinetic Fist always and using Searing flesh almost to finish enemies striking at first levels, then using multiple kinetic defenses.
Damage was good and precision not an issue even at first levels, but damage taken hurted a lot until 5 when took infusion specializaztion (form) to negate kinetic fist BURN and fullattack all the way. At 7th took expanded element for Aether and then expanded defense. At 15 th expanded element with AIR to negate annoying ranged attacks. Because of the low initiative the Lizardfolk did not suffered from needing to pounce for fullattacking. At 13th he became a sort of dimensional dervisher limited times per day with a ranged kinetic blast quickened and with ride the blast, then kinetic fist to fullattack with unarmed strike and natural attacks added. The real winner was Greater kinetic form (air), for increased STR and DEX.
The other one I played was TITAN, a Human geokineticist focused on Overrun maneuver, Charge with Rhino charge to ready a charge in the most favorable moment and Spring attack while earth gliding as a backup strategy. This was more tanky, focusing only in STR and CON and investing feats in heavy armor prof (yeah stoneplate armor!). Expanded element (water) and (aether) along with expanded defense for real tankyness. Kinetic form was helping alot! The increased reach also turned in a mini-combat patrol and helped a lot while overruning. Did not use kinetic blade for this build until level 9, but a morningstar twohanded.
I prefer using STR for builds instead of DEX because STR seems to be more buffable (size increments, bloodrage spell + courageous weapon, etc).
One thing I did notice is that kinetic fist says "any blast". So does this mean I can kinetic fist a composite blast? If so then at 3 natural attacks you'll break even on damage dice plus you'll get to add in power attacks and other damage bonuses such as AFMFs.
If you can get more than 3 natural attacks then you start to pull out ahead with composite fisting.
One last question to ponder: Can you combine kinetic blade and kinetic fist? Or does one preclude the other?
both kinetic blade and kinetic fist are form infusions, and you can only apply one form infusion and one substance infusion to any given blast.
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On using Composite Blast with Kinetic Fist, realize it would be 3 burn, 1 for Kinetic Fist, 2 for the Composite Blast. By the level you are getting a Composite Blast you could easily have reduced the cost of Kinetic Fist to 0, but you can't reduce the cost of the Composite Blast to 0 before level 15 and even then it requires a move action thus precluding a full attack, so you only get one swing no matter how many natural attacks you have. This means if you want to make multiple attacks with the Composite Blast, you are taking Burn so you will be limited in how many times you can do it. That said, yes you can do it, and it would be quite powerful. You could also do the same thing with Kinetic Blade, but that requires iterative attacks to get more hits.
On a side note, unlike Kinetic Blade, Kinetic Fist (and Kinetic Whip) last till the start of your next turn allowing you to take AOOs with it. If you have combat reflexes this gives a lot of potential for damage with a single use.
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both kinetic blade and kinetic fist are form infusions, and you can only apply one form infusion and one substance infusion to any given blast.
You can have more that one substance infusion on a blast. you have to be will to take the burn for it. In the play-test it only says "Infusions allow a kineticist to alter her kinetic blast to suit her whims. Form infusions change the way the blast is delivered, and substance infusions add an extra effect to the blast."
On using Composite Blast with Kinetic Fist, realize it would be 3 burn, 1 for Kinetic Fist, 2 for the Composite Blast. By the level you are getting a Composite Blast you could easily have reduced the cost of Kinetic Fist to 0, but you can't reduce the cost of the Composite Blast to 0 before level 15 and even then it requires a move action thus precluding a full attack, so you only get one swing no matter how many natural attacks you have. This means if you want to make multiple attacks with the Composite Blast, you are taking Burn so you will be limited in how many times you can do it. That said, yes you can do it, and it would be quite powerful. You could also do the same thing with Kinetic Blade, but that requires iterative attacks to get more hits.
On a side note, unlike Kinetic Blade, Kinetic Fist (and Kinetic Whip) last till the start of your next turn allowing you to take AOOs with it. If you have combat reflexes this gives a lot of potential for damage with a single use.
Thanks, I was aware of the burn but it was mainly a secondary concern since the whole build is going against the grain, though I think that telekinetists have a real special potential with kinetic blade. I was also aware it would be more of an end game all star but you did give me some good insight though. I won't lie my true motives for this was creating interesting and simple NPCs, you brought up a good point on the AoO thing though. Imagine setting up a combat patrol with a long reach, though admitting this puts the build back in dex focus land but I like it none the less.
Just think how nasty my terrakinetic roper is going to be. Or my aerokinetic chokers, the silence will kill you. I'm really hoping we get psychic mind flayers, well it's equivalent since the flayer is tm'ed.
