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Can you purchase the following (at the correctly adjusted cost)
Heightened continual flame.
Continual flame from a cleric.
Continual flame at a CL > than minimum.
No.
They CAN be provided by a fellow party member, though (you have to pay for the spell component cost but they can do the spellcasting for free).
Incredibly valuable, especially if the cleric has the Heighten feat
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Can you purchase the following (at the correctly adjusted cost)
Heightened continual flame.
Continual flame from a cleric.
Continual flame at a CL > than minimum.No.
They CAN be provided by a fellow party member, though (you have to pay for the spell component cost but they can do the spellcasting for free).
Incredibly valuable, especially if the cleric has the Heighten feat
i know you cannot purchase a cleric's continual flame at minimum caster level with prestige - but I believe the purchase with money has no such limitation.
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i know you cannot purchase a cleric's continual flame at minimum caster level with prestige - but I believe the purchase with money has no such limitation.Can you purchase the following (at the correctly adjusted cost)
...
Continual flame from a cleric.
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No.
They CAN be provided by a fellow party member, though (you have to pay for the spell component cost but they can do the spellcasting for free).
Incredibly valuable, especially if the cleric has the Heighten feat
I know for sure it's possible to buy the cleric version based on the RAW in the CRB I couldn't find a reason you couldn't buy it.
I'm completely unclear if you can buy any metamagiced spell.
I agree the metamagic is not purchasable because it would not be minimum caster level - but even a regular cleric's continual flame would help non-darkvision people against the darkness spell.
I happen to have several casters of various levels that do heightened continual flame - and people come up to me to tell me how much it helped in some later game.
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In the Guide to Organized play it lists what you can buy. There are no clerical cast continual flame items in any legal resource as far as I am aware.
So that leaves spellcasting services. Although it is not clear I'd say the FAQ on meta magic combined with the restrictions on consumables makes it clear that the intent is you buy spellcasting services as you buy consumables, ie lowest caster level and you have to pick wizard over cleric.
Its a moderately moot point since getting a PC cleric to cast isn't usually an onerous chore and one REALLY wants the heightened version anyway (which is clearly disallowed)
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Spellcasting is not a consumable item as such it's different. Since it's different I see no reason I couldn't get a cleric continual flame.
At a minimum expect table variation. I won't allow it at any table I run unless the player has it from a PC together with a signed chronicle sheet indicating when and from whom he got it (characters who can actually cast it are an exception to that). My rationale for that is above.
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In the Guide to Organized play it lists what you can buy. There are no clerical cast continual flame items in any legal resource as far as I am aware.
So that leaves spellcasting services. Although it is not clear I'd say the FAQ on meta magic combined with the restrictions on consumables makes it clear that the intent is you buy spellcasting services as you buy consumables, ie lowest caster level and you have to pick wizard over cleric.
Its a moderately moot point since getting a PC cleric to cast isn't usually an onerous chore and one REALLY wants the heightened version anyway (which is clearly disallowed)
Can you cite that? As long as you pay gold, you are allowed to purchase spellcasting services at higher than minimum caster level, otherwise, in the higher tiers, spells like remove disease from an NPC caster at minimum level just won't cut the mustard.
And, just to add to the confusion, since, in PFS, scrolls are untyped as to Arcane or Divine, what happens when you buy a scroll of continual flame at CL3, and have a Cleric use it? Does it automatically act as the Cleric version of the spell, becoming SL3, CL5, or does it stay as the Wizard version of the spell, SL2, CL3?
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And, just to add to the confusion, since, in PFS, scrolls are untyped as to Arcane or Divine, what happens when you buy a scroll of continual flame at CL3, and have a Cleric use it? Does it automatically act as the Cleric version of the spell, becoming SL3, CL5, or does it stay as the Wizard version of the spell, SL2, CL3?
It's CL 3, because that's what the maker and the buyer paid for and how it reads to detect magic.
Spell level is a theoretically interesting question, but I think for practical play it's safe to say that you don't apply the benefit of the doubt to change it from how it was actually made into a magic item that can't legally exist. It's a scroll of continual flame, spell level 2, either divine or arcane as needed, even if the scroll user can't cast any such spell from his own spell slots.
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Can you purchase the following (at the correctly adjusted cost)
Heightened continual flame. No.
Continual flame from a cleric. Yes, but not with Prestige.
Continual flame at a CL > than minimum. Yes, but not with Prestige.
Spell level and Caster level on scrolls don't change, because of the way the hand-waiving is done - scrolls aren't considered arcane or divine, so the only checks are "Is this spell on my spell list?" and "Do I have a high enough ability score to cast it?". Otherwise it's CL3 & SL2, always.
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Can you cite that?
As I said above, its unclear to me. The closest thing that I found is from the PFS FAQ.
"Magic items or spellcasting services must be purchased as listed in the Core Rulebook, including wands and scrolls. You may not apply metamagic feats when purchasing magic items or spellcasting services. The only exception is when the item or service is specifically listed as a reward on a Chronicle sheet."
My argument is :
1) spellcasting services and magic items have the same rules
2) magic items must be crested at minimum level and use wizard spell level when appropriate
Therefore, spellcasting services follow the same rule as magic items.
A different argument is that the Ioun torch and Everburning torches already exist as magic items and so that is what the PCs must purchase.
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You can buy spellcasting services at whatever level you like. (normal minimum applies)
It's important when having make whole cast. Need a caster level 24 make whole to fix your +4 armor?
No problem, just pay 24*10*2gp
While there's no specific rule I think spellcasting services should follow the same order as magic items (I'll mention it to Brock for further updating in the guide), otherwise the OP guide is wrong about the costs for spells like lesser restoration, and we're left with the same problem that the consumables rule is designed to deal with.
All that said, a super high caster level continual flame isn't actually that helpful. It's harder to dispel but that's about it, but the caster level is irreverent when comparing to darkness/deeper darkness.
Note that even a spell level 3 continual flame will not function in deeper darkness.
Deeper darkness references darkness which says "Magical light sources only increase the light level in an area if they are of a higher spell level than darkness."
So a spell level 3 continual flame would work in darkness but not deeper darkness.
The countering and dispelling bit has nothing to do with bringing the spells into each other's areas, it has to do with readying to counterspell or specifically targeting one spell with the other when cast.
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Just as a note wouldn't they overlap and negate each other where they overlap since both are level 3 and counter and dispel equal or lower level spells?
Nope.
Perhaps this will help.
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Is there a practical cap to what caster level you can buy a continual flame spell at or other spells? I know make whole has been specifically said that you can get it at any caster level, even if such a high level caster doesn't exist on Golarion, but what about other spells?
I ask because
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The idea is to get it early so when you face [CENSORED] in the 1-2 tier in [CENSORED] you can tolerate deeper darkness without insta TPKing.
Wand of Obscuring mist - wands don't provoke AoO - so if you can use one, a wand of obscuring mist would let you pull out and nullify a lot of sneak attacking. (draw, cast, 5 foot step - often makes you invisible to an attacker.)
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HOWEVER - Why not - if you have the book - just use unwelcome halo (1st level spell)
An oil of unwelcome halo costs 50gp and eliminates darkness spells just like the daylight spell - if you happen to be good, make sure you bring livestock or a dog or cat.
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Are you sure that works? It's a lower spell level. If so wow that's a good wand to buy.
The idea is to get it early so when you face [CENSORED] in the 1-2 tier in [CENSORED] you can tolerate deeper darkness without insta TPKing.HOWEVER - Why not - if you have the book - just use unwelcome halo (1st level spell)
An oil of unwelcome halo costs 50gp and eliminates darkness spells just like the daylight spell - if you happen to be good, make sure you bring livestock or a dog or cat.
Its language is like daylight (it might actually be most of the same words) - not specific to levels of spells -
If unwelcome halo is brought into an area of magical darkness (or vice versa), the effects of both spells are temporarily negated, so that the otherwise prevailing light conditions exist within the overlapping fields of effect.
If you don't have people in the party with darkvision or darkvision potion - you might still be out of luck.
I have seen some disagreement about who can cast the spell and on whose spell list the spell appears - an oil eliminates those disagreements - where a wand propagates them.
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It says magical darkness, but not deeper darkness. I think negating the spell is daylights thing (which has really wonky rules, because the whole whoevers spell level is bigger thing is only in the rules for the darkness spell, not generally, and daylight has a nuke it all! clause, BUT can only negate, not then go on to provide light, and then if mars is in Sagittarius... )
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More likely a banning from pfs and a talk with the freelancer about why you don't use a 1st level spell to do a third level spells main job.
Yeah, we really need to ban faerie fire and glitterdust to stop negating higher-level spells like greater invisibility.
Oh, whoops, I meant we need to ban resist energy because a 2nd-level spell shouldn't be able to render a character nearly immune to a CR19 ancient red dragon's iconic breath weapon.
Oh, not that either? You must be meaning that we need to ban dispel magic and talk to its author about how you don't use a 3rd-level spell to completely prevent a 9th-level spell from ever happening.
Or maybe we should just be okay with narrow, situational, solution-type spells being able to answer higher-level threats.
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Or maybe we should just be okay with narrow, situational, solution-type spells being able to answer higher-level threats.
I'm fine with a narrow situational solution spell being an answer to higher level threats.
But this is a narrow situational solution spell that replaces the other narrow situational solution spell to higher level spell threats.
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Or maybe we should just be okay with narrow, situational, solution-type spells being able to answer higher-level threats.
I'm fine with a narrow situational solution spell being an answer to higher level threats.
But this is a narrow situational solution spell that replaces the other narrow situational solution spell to higher level spell threats.
So what?
Think of it this way: people are carrying around solutions to one specific individual spell. That solution had no business being the same spell level in the first place, so unwelcome halo is a fix, not a problem.
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The spell is broken - intended as a harmful spell, it works 10x as well as a beneficial one, duplicating the majority of a very common 3rd level spell's effects (and the duration barely matters at all, since the other spell is most often cast to combat a single encounter with darkness.
That said, I can't stand the use of magical darkness in PFS, so I'm fully in support of this spell, even the abuse of it by non-Sarenrae worshipers. [I gotta say, the complete ignoring of those Deity descriptors on the spells is very frustrating from a flavor perspective].
In other news, I only just realized that I've only once or twice played a character with darkvision in PFS.
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I'd say the use of unwelcome halo being discussed here—to shatter the schemes of those who want to slay you under cover of darkness—very solidly falls in the category of a "harmful spell".
A spell that says "You don't get to use sneak attack, and all your enemies have double the chance of hitting you" is very much a harmful/offensive spell.
That's why the halo is "unwelcome": because for the types of enemies you use it against, it royally screws them. How you can think the intent was something other than that, I don't understand.
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Unwelcome halo says
"..
This halo sheds normal light in a 20-foot radius from the creature, and increases the light level by one step for an additional 20 feet.
.."
So you if you use it in normal light does it make a ring of bright light?
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The spell is not a perfect solution like Daylight because there are negatives- big ones - but when being unable to see when the badguys can all see it is a lesser of two evils
one of the downsides
"This halo makes it impossible for the creature to gain concealment in nonmagical darkness, and in dim or darker conditions, the creature’s glow can be seen even if it is not within direct line of sight."
the other being it must be targeted on a creature - not an object - and the creature cannot be good)
