Goblin Squad Member
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I have all the gathering skills at 4 and and most if not all the knowledge skills at 5.
Sometime I find nodes that say "you don't have the skill to ahrvest anything here", generally several of them in close proximity, but in one occasion they where all the nodes I found moving away from a settlement for more than 2 hexes (at the end of my trek I was about 2 and a half hexes away from the nearest settlement).
It is working as intended? Having nodes that contain only high level stuff is an intended mechanic?
Added question: some node disappear in a short span of time after it has been harvested, other persist for a longer time, sometime apparently not despawning at all.
It is because the node has some stuff that could be harvested with a higher skill?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Lee could tell you the guts of it if he wanted but I can tell you a few useful things.
Rank 7 - Tier 2 materials
Rank 14 - Tier 3 materials
When you get that message, it means you need to increase your harvesting rank before you can extract from that node; the nodes you saw probably need rank 7 to access. And that means trained rank, not final skill after racial and other bonuses. Dwarves get +20? to mining I think, so at rank 6 they'd have 60 + 20 = skill 80 (higher skill value than you get from 7 ranks of mining) but still be unable to access T2 rocks because their rank is too low.
"T2 node" doesn't mean there is only T2 material from the drop. At rank 7 and 8 that we can currently train in-game most often you'll get 1-2 units of T1 like always and 1-2 units of T2 on top of that. I get T2 all over so I'm 95% sure we also get T2 materials from nodes that could have been harvested by sub-rank-7 gatherers. It's just that the access value to those nodes was under 7 so everyone can gather from them, but sub-7 will miss out on the T2 materials.
At rank 8 I still run across the occasional rock that says I don't have enough skill to harvest anything here (Seems like the T1 and T2 rocks get mined out and replaced with a T3 that no one can mine yet). It just happens a lot less often than the T1/T2 boundary.
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Goblin Squad Member
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See the post gold, gold, fools gold
Yes - one issue is a lot of tier 1 gatherer - but I feel the hidden issue is that the common resources (ore, pine, coal, yew) seem to deteriorate while uncommon resources become more prevalent.
A node that gave me 9 gold and 1 iron ore is just wrong - and this was inside the hour when everything was reset and ore should have been added.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I wonder if this is an effect of increased skill, first you get a base Mat, then it do a skill check to se if you get more, and when you get that your skill is applied and pushes you so far up in the table that you only get goodies...
No - that should not be the case
I'm only level 7 and barely able to gather gold. Otherwise a level 16 will find high tier and will be close to unable to find low tier. That can't be right.
I think the way it works:
The skill / level determines how many mats you find.
Then for each mat it is rolled what you actually find.
80 iron and 20 gold available
If you find 2 mats and are level 0-6 then 2 * 80% chance to find 1 iron and 2 * 20% chance to find nothing or 64% to find 2 iron, 2 * 16% (32%) to find 1 iron and 4% to find nothing (you are not skilled enough)
If you are level 7 then 64% chance to find 2 iron, 32% to find 1 iron and 1 gold and 4% to find 2 gold - but off course you have a higher chance to find >2 mats.
Now if this changes to 20% iron and 80% gold then the tier 1 will again and again be unable to find anything and the tier 2 will more often find gold as iron.
This is in agreement with what I see as tier 2 harvester and looking at the complaints of tier 1 harvesters.
GW said that higher tier should be rare - this is NOT the case right now and it seems that the ration high tier to low tier more and more shifts to higher tier.
I tried to explain it in my post gold, gold, fools gold - but off course I can't see the actual algorithms and there is some part of speculation here.
On the other hand - I started playing games when you didn't see algorithms and when you collected data over weeks and month in spreadsheets to work backwards to work out the algorithm from observation - and then use this knowledge to have an edge over other players.
Good old times ...
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Goblin Squad Member
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My impression is that if a node contains a mix of tier 1 mats and tier 2 mats then, given I have tier 1 gathering skills I will be able to harvest the tier 1 mats leaving the rest. The node doesn't respawn until depleted, so the area is left with only nodes few can harvest. The region around Phaeros is populated by these persistent nodes that only contain higher tier resources... and are the only nodes that remain.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Thod, you final comment makes me think of all my hand drawn maps of the original Bard's tale and Pools of Radiance (gold box) heh
I still remember my first games of PBM (Play by snailMail) - Starweb. One turn took 3 weeks. A total game close to a year despite only being around 20 turns. I would write down my commands and send them to the German provider who would type them in, send per express all commands to the US, get it processed and printed, get the turns back and then send out again.
So I think it took 10 days to have a turn back - and then 10 days to do your turn of 15 orders and to communicate with allies and enemies.
Several players had their own stationary for their own character. So you could get diplomacy on a self made stationary in hand written form.
Yes - this much smaller pace meant you optimized every single command and you still had time to analyze all information and glean even the smallest bit of information from that.
We are talking 31 years ago.
Later it got faster and the turns would be processed in Germany - a LOT later and you would send them in via e-mail.
Starweb, Feudalherren, It's a Crime (a game in the US) and a UK one I forgot the name. Oh - and Quest - where all other players did an alliance of alliances against the 'Bruderschaft' - the alliance I had founded with 2 local friends - because we were seen as to dominant - but they failed.
Their main issue with our alliance - we didn't share freely all the information we had gathered. We likely where the only ones knowing several of the algorithms powering the fights and we had the best map - nearly complete.
You only would see the neighbour hexes - and you couldn't travel very fast. So every turn you might get two or three more hexes. Well - actually thing it was 80*80 squares - not hexes.
I wrote a font in Latex that allowed me to produce maps. The main document was a pure text file of 80 by 80 ascii char that I had a script to cut into 16 pieces and to render it as proper maps with my font.
Nowadays you have Wikis and google docs with spreadsheets and everything is offered on a golden platter ...
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Goblin Squad Member
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My impression is that if a node contains a mix of tier 1 mats and tier 2 mats then, given I have tier 1 gathering skills I will be able to harvest the tier 1 mats leaving the rest. The node doesn't respawn until depleted, so the area is left with only nodes few can harvest. The region around Phaeros is populated by these persistent nodes that only contain higher tier resources... and are the only nodes that remain.
There are some issues with this way of looking at it.
a) how does a iron ore 1 / gold 9 node ever come into existence
b) how is it possible that higher level gatherers get more resource as a lower level one if the amount of resources is predetermined.
c) Phaeros should have enough level 7+ gatherers who should have taken care of this if the only reason that these nodes stay is that a tier 1 was unable to collect them. Easy pickings for a single gatherer
Yes - the tier 1 gatherers have depleted the area. The more common a resource the more likely it is that you more or less reduce it to close to zero growth.
What is left is a wasteland of nodes where you don't get anything anymore are low tier.
Interesting question - can you harvest from a node 15 minutes after you got the message you don't have enough skill. I think I saw it once happen to me when I tried twice for a resource that 'broke' but who tries multiple times?
Worth a test.
