First, I've tried searching, but I can't find anything about how to find the phylactery of a Lich character. My DM let a character into the game with one of their old characters without looking over it, and it turned out they're a lvl 14 evil cleric, that happens to be a lich, with a lvl 11 party. Oh, and the party is a good aligned party, but apparently we can't tell there's a lich with us because he's "really good at hiding it with a disguise and scented oils" even though his character has no points in disguise. The question comes from, how can you find a lich's phylactery? The DM pulled me aside and asked me to try to find it so it can be considered a Paladin ridding the world of an evil, instead of a DM not checking the papers. or what should I even do in this situation?
Second question I have deals with I'm starting a different pathfinder game, and wanted to make a purely non-lethal character(except against things like undead and constructs, the DM let me take a modified vow of non-violence and peace from 3.5 just my party members don't get the punishment that came with it, unless they make a vow, because he liked the idea that not wanting to just kill everything shouldn't make it too much worse) and wanted to know if there are any feats that let me change super-natural abilities(SU) and extraordinary abilities(EX) from lethal to non-lethal(I know there is merciful spell metamagic but that doesn't work for SU and EX). and would ability damage from SU, or EX abilities count as breaking the vow since it just says spells and weapons?
Any help would be greatly appreciated
how can you find a lich's phylactery?
- Kill Lich.
- Find Lich while it's reconstituting.
- Kill Lich again.
- Destroy anything box-like that has a magical aura nearby.
wanted to know if there are any feats that let me change super-natural abilities(SU) and extraordinary abilities(EX) from lethal to non-lethal
Not that I'm aware of.
would ability damage from SU, or EX abilities count as breaking the vow since it just says spells and weapons?
Depends on whether the PC considers the vow by its literal definition (in that case: no, it wouldn't count as breaking the vow) or by its intent (in which case: it would totally be breaking the vow).
There is a great non-lethal build in the forum, called sap master. It's mostly rogue based build, but it dishes so much non-lethal it turns lethal and kills the enemy in a turn or two.
Not that I'm aware of.
dang that makes it harder to work this into a viability.. might have to go with a monk or rogue for nonlethal attacks then
Depends on whether the PC considers the vow by its literal definition (in that case: no, it wouldn't count as breaking the vow) or by its intent (in which case: it would totally be breaking the vow).
dang, I was hoping it was a legitimate thing. not just cheese.
There is a great non-lethal build in the forum, called sap master. It's mostly rogue based build, but it dishes so much non-lethal it turns lethal and kills the enemy in a turn or two.
I've played a non-lethal rogue, was trying to get a fighter, or barbarian, who had been the cause of their families death (through killing someone when they could have let them go) so vowed to never kill a living soul again. cuz sap adept/master is only with sneak attack isn't it?
First, I've tried searching, but I can't find anything about how to find the phylactery of a Lich character. My DM let a character into the game with one of their old characters without looking over it, and it turned out they're a lvl 14 evil cleric, that happens to be a lich, with a lvl 11 party. Oh, and the party is a good aligned party, but apparently we can't tell there's a lich with us because he's "really good at hiding it with a disguise and scented oils" even though his character has no points in disguise. The question comes from, how can you find a lich's phylactery? The DM pulled me aside and asked me to try to find it so it can be considered a Paladin ridding the world of an evil, instead of a DM not checking the papers. or what should I even do in this situation?
Second question I have deals with I'm starting a different pathfinder game, and wanted to make a purely non-lethal character(except against things like undead and constructs, the DM let me take a modified vow of non-violence and peace from 3.5 just my party members don't get the punishment that came with it, unless they make a vow, because he liked the idea that not wanting to just kill everything shouldn't make it too much worse) and wanted to know if there are any feats that let me change super-natural abilities(SU) and extraordinary abilities(EX) from lethal to non-lethal(I know there is merciful spell metamagic but that doesn't work for SU and EX). and would ability damage from SU, or EX abilities count as breaking the vow since it just says spells and weapons?
Any help would be greatly appreciated
Locate object might work. You could also kill the lich and treasure map his dried, dessicated hide, cause I bet you that he'd consider his phylactery the most treasured of his possessions.
If you can't directly destroy it because of protections on it, then you can instead plane shift it to the positive energy plane. That'll probably put a kink in any plans to reconstitute.
Legend lore, contact other plane, and properly worded commune spells are all helpful in finding phylacteries.
First, I've tried searching, but I can't find anything about how to find the phylactery of a Lich character. My DM let a character into the game with one of their old characters without looking over it, and it turned out they're a lvl 14 evil cleric, that happens to be a lich, with a lvl 11 party. Oh, and the party is a good aligned party, but apparently we can't tell there's a lich with us because he's "really good at hiding it with a disguise and scented oils" even though his character has no points in disguise. The question comes from, how can you find a lich's phylactery? The DM pulled me aside and asked me to try to find it so it can be considered a Paladin ridding the world of an evil, instead of a DM not checking the papers. or what should I even do in this situation?
Second question I have deals with I'm starting a different pathfinder game, and wanted to make a purely non-lethal character(except against things like undead and constructs, the DM let me take a modified vow of non-violence and peace from 3.5 just my party members don't get the punishment that came with it, unless they make a vow, because he liked the idea that not wanting to just kill everything shouldn't make it too much worse) and wanted to know if there are any feats that let me change super-natural abilities(SU) and extraordinary abilities(EX) from lethal to non-lethal(I know there is merciful spell metamagic but that doesn't work for SU and EX). and would ability damage from SU, or EX abilities count as breaking the vow since it just says spells and weapons?
Any help would be greatly appreciated
Locate object might work. You could also kill the lich and treasure map his dried, dessicated hide, cause I bet you that he'd consider his phylactery the most treasured of his possessions.
If you can't directly destroy it because of protections on it, then you can instead plane shift it to the positive energy plane. That'll probably put a kink in any plans to reconstitute.
So much that. I find that putting things/people in the positive energy plane usually just solves a problem out right. No Shadow afterward, no fuss.
1. The Lich:
Step 1: Kill Lich, loot its corpse
Step 2: Read up on everything in the Lich's possession to become "Familiar" with it.
Step 3: Take a chunk of its corpse to have a "Body Part" from it.
Step 4: Cast "Scrying". The Lich will take a cumulative -15 to its Will save due to being familiar with it (-5) and having its body part (-10)
With the location of where the lich's phylactery is, head over there before he finishes and seal the deal.
2. The Non-Lethal:
Step 1: Take up the Blade of Mercy trait from the Legacy of Fire Player's Guide. (No penalty for dealing nonlethal damage with a slashing weapon, +1 to Nonlethal Damage).
Step 2: Take Enforcer (Intimidate when non-lethal damage is dealt as a free action)
Step 3: Pick up Power Attack (you're melee, you'll want this anyway).
Step 4: Pick up Cornugon Smash (Intimidate as Free Action when Power Attack made).
AND/OR
Pick up Hurtful (Attack as a swift action against a target that has been intimidated within your range).
Step 5: Get a "Cruel" Weapon Enhancement (Sicken intimidated targets that are already shaken and +5 Temporary HP for 10 minutes when an enemy is killed or knocked unconscious.
At the end of it, you can shaken opponents for multiple rounds with the nonlethal damage from Blade of Mercy and Enforcer, then hit them again with your cruel weapon to sicken them as well. If an enemy is immune to nonlethal damage, you can use Power Attack and Cornugon Smash to inflict those conditions instead, albeit with a shorter duration for the shaken condition. (Assuming the creature can still be shaken or sickened).
Your enemy at that point has a cumulative -4 to several of its checks.
Your martials will take fewer hits, your casters will land more debuffs, and everyone else will either fear or love your prowess.
Locate object might work. You could also kill the lich and treasure map his dried, dessicated hide, cause I bet you that he'd consider his phylactery the most treasured of his possessions.
HOLY SHIZ NIBLETS xD Where did this spell come from? I just looked it up and it's awesome. I just gotta find somewhere to have it cast without the lich catching on(so he doesn't move it and all haha)
If you can't directly destroy it because of protections on it, then you can instead plane shift it to the positive energy plane. That'll probably put a kink in any plans to reconstitute.
Would that destroy the phylactery too, or just constantly take out the lich?
1. The Lich:
Step 1: Kill Lich, loot its corpse
Step 2: Read up on everything in the Lich's possession to become "Familiar" with it.
Step 3: Take a chunk of its corpse to have a "Body Part" from it.
Step 4: Cast "Scrying". The Lich will take a cumulative -15 to its Will save due to being familiar with it (-5) and having its body part (-10)With the location of where the lich's phylactery is, head over there before he finishes and seal the deal.
o.O How do you guys make it sound so simple? like I've literally been thinking about that for a few days now and couldn't think of anything.
2. The Non-Lethal:
Step 1: Take up the Blade of Mercy trait from the Legacy of Fire Player's Guide. (No penalty for dealing nonlethal damage with a slashing weapon, +1 to Nonlethal Damage).
Step 2: Take Enforcer (Intimidate when non-lethal damage is dealt as a free action)
Step 3: Pick up Power Attack (you're melee, you'll want this anyway).
Step 4: Pick up Cornugon Smash (Intimidate as Free Action when Power Attack made).
AND/OR
Pick up Hurtful (Attack as a swift action against a target that has been intimidated within your range).
Step 5: Get a "Cruel" Weapon Enhancement (Sicken intimidated targets that are already shaken and +5 Temporary HP for 10 minutes when an enemy is killed or knocked unconscious.At the end of it, you can shaken opponents for multiple rounds with the nonlethal damage from Blade of Mercy and Enforcer, then hit them again with your cruel weapon to sicken them as well. If an enemy is immune to nonlethal damage, you can use Power Attack and Cornugon Smash to inflict those conditions instead, albeit with a shorter duration for the shaken condition. (Assuming the creature can still be shaken or sickened).
Your enemy at that point has a cumulative -4 to several of its checks.
Your martials will take fewer hits, your casters will land more debuffs, and everyone else will either fear or love your prowess.
O.o so idk if I read the feats right, but with Cornugon, if you have a monk and flurry, would you get to attempt an intimidate check it after EACH attack that hit, or at the end? which I guess would go with all things with multiple attacks(like a high BAB)
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As a GM, I'd probably rule that just studying the lich's possessions doesn't make you "familiar" with te lch -- that's something that requires long-term interaction. The body part watching would work, though.
Also, the lich isn't "there" until it finishes reforming. So you'd have a window between the time it finished reforming and the time it cast its anti-scrying spells -- assuming its phylactery wasn't in, say, a lead-lined vault in a graveyard or something. Admittedly, not all liches are that paranoid, but there are countermeasures to a lot of divination magic, which is why you might need to pull out the big guns.
Looking at Cornugon and Power Attack, I'd say that IF you are able to apply Power Attack to your Flurry of Blows (Which is what I see as the potential issue), then you would be able to make an intimidate check after each blow landed.
All said however, I don't think an Intimidate Build for a monk is really ideal. Monks are MAD enough as it stands, and to add in charisma requirements (you want to be able to keep your static intimidate bonuses as high as possible. Other than easy access to Nonlethal damage with Unarmed Strike, the monk has nothing to loan itself to the enforcer feat which is in my opinion better, as it allows an opponent to be shaken for multiple rounds. (Which means with a Cruel Weapon you can opt to deal lethal damage for subsequent rounds.)
As for making things sound so simple, it's mostly because I read a lot when I entered the Pathfinder system. I basically went through the entire D20PFSRD that was relevant to the mechanics of building a character. I went through entire spell and feat lists, and then I just started building more characters than I would ever play as. I just theory-crafted for the heck of it.
I also have a really good memory, so all the minutiae stuck with me.
In short, system mastery comes with needing to read a lot.
As a GM, I'd probably rule that just studying the lich's possessions doesn't make you "familiar" with te lch -- that's something that requires long-term interaction. The body part watching would work, though.
Also, the lich isn't "there" until it finishes reforming. So you'd have a window between the time it finished reforming and the time it cast its anti-scrying spells -- assuming its phylactery wasn't in, say, a lead-lined vault in a graveyard or something. Admittedly, not all liches are that paranoid, but there are countermeasures to a lot of divination magic, which is why you might need to pull out the big guns.
I'd say you can learn a lot about a person from having some time to take 20 in every room of their lair, interests, hobbies, personal living conditions, motivations, etc. Then there is the fact to have even gotten to that point, you will have fought them in combat and "defeated" them.
It's kinda like saying Sherlock Holmes isn't familiar with Moriarty at that point after having foiled one of his plots, met him in person, was able to explore one of his 'lairs' to some extent, talked with his cronies (if you haven't interrogated a villain's accomplice before fighting the villain, you're doing it wrong), and goodness knows what else.
I GM as well, so this is looking like a difference of opinion, because to me getting a look at leisure into their possessions/living quarters is icing on the cake. Or maybe we use liches differently in campaigns.
And to everything else, with the lead-lined precaution and everything, we all have to keep in mind, when it comes to villains, if a GM doesn't want you to kill something, then you're not going to kill it, in which case you as a player will have to do something other than scour the system.
PS: Why the discussion about nonlethal damage?? Am I missing something ... a Lich is normally immune to nonlethal damage.
The OP had two separate questions, one was about lich phylacteries, and the other was about how to remain effective in combat while dealing non-lethal damage for characters that make a vow of non-violence as part of the fluff/crunch.
It was two separate questions each being discussed in turn.
Looking at Cornugon and Power Attack, I'd say that IF you are able to apply Power Attack to your Flurry of Blows (Which is what I see as the potential issue), then you would be able to make an intimidate check after each blow landed.All said however, I don't think an Intimidate Build for a monk is really ideal. Monks are MAD enough as it stands, and to add in charisma requirements (you want to be able to keep your static intimidate bonuses as high as possible. Other than easy access to Nonlethal damage with Unarmed Strike, the monk has nothing to loan itself to the enforcer feat which is in my opinion better, as it allows an opponent to be shaken for multiple rounds. (Which means with a Cruel Weapon you can opt to deal lethal damage for subsequent rounds.)so would a nonlethal barbarian work? can they even do nonlethal in a rage? I don't see anything against it, just when I think of someone in a rage I think of thrashing violently
I think there's a guided thing which lets you use WIS instead of dex/str for attacks as long as it's your god/goddess' weapon idr what it's called though. which makes it more onto Wis Con and Dex, though looking at it all written out it does look like it'd be difficult if not impossible to pull off effectively.
As for making things sound so simple, it's mostly because I read a lot when I entered the Pathfinder system. I basically went through the entire D20PFSRD that was relevant to the mechanics of building a character. I went through entire spell and feat lists, and then I just started building more characters than I would ever play as. I just theory-crafted for the heck of it.
I also have a really good memory, so all the minutiae stuck with me.
In short, system mastery comes with needing to read a lot.
Dang haha that's epic.
And to everything else, with the lead-lined precaution and everything, we all have to keep in mind, when it comes to villains, if a GM doesn't want you to kill something, then you're not going to kill it, in which case you as a player will have to do something other than scour the system.
The DM is kinda wanting the lich to die, just doesn't want it to look like he wants the lich gone. (it came from him overlooking a characters paperwork) but idk what is protecting it if anything. though the lich always talks about his kingdom. and the party still needs to realize it's a lich somehow without metagaming it. which if I played a pally right I should have probably checked at least if he was evil before joining the party, kinda just assumed he was good since it was a party that started out as "rescue the princess from a dungeon where a group of theives had kidnapped and took her" I didn't think about the bad reasons someone might wanna do it (i.e. taking her for his own ransom, being the actual leader, taking out some competition). It might be too late for that now I think
The OP had two separate questions, one was about lich phylacteries, and the other...
PS: Why the discussion about nonlethal damage?? Am I missing something ... a Lich is normally immune to nonlethal damage.
Yeah sorry about that, thought it'd be easier to keep track of, and people probably know something about them both, so i figured it'd be a one stop shop.. didn't think about the confusion..
Rungok has the right idea for magical ways of locating it. Granted, a Lich might well circumvent it by placing it in some sort of anti-scry chest. (Secret Chest spell).
If the GM is nice, and the PCs high enough level, wish or miracle could provide anticlimactic ways of gaining the Phylactery.
The thing is, it's an arms race with the Lich if magical means are used. Does the Lich have powerful enough magic to keep the phylactery safe, or do the PCs have the means to counteract the obscuring magic? Depends on the Lich, depends on the PCs.
Looking at Cornugon and Power Attack, I'd say that IF you are able to apply Power Attack to your Flurry of Blows (Which is what I see as the potential issue), then you would be able to make an intimidate check after each blow landed.Dang haha that's epic.All said however, I don't think an Intimidate Build for a monk is really ideal. Monks are MAD enough as it stands, and to add in charisma requirements (you want to be able to keep your static intimidate bonuses as high as possible. Other than easy access to Nonlethal damage with Unarmed Strike, the monk has nothing to loan itself to the enforcer feat which is in my opinion better, as it allows an opponent to be shaken for multiple rounds. (Which means with a Cruel Weapon you can opt to deal lethal damage for subsequent rounds.)so would a nonlethal barbarian work? can they even do nonlethal in a rage? I don't see anything against it, just when I think of someone in a rage I think of thrashing violently
I think there's a guided thing which lets you use WIS instead of dex/str for attacks as long as it's your god/goddess' weapon idr what it's called though. which makes it more onto Wis Con and Dex, though looking at it all written out it does look like it'd be difficult if not impossible to pull off effectively.
As for making things sound so simple, it's mostly because I read a lot when I entered the Pathfinder system. I basically went through the entire D20PFSRD that was relevant to the mechanics of building a character. I went through entire spell and feat lists, and then I just started building more characters than I would ever play as. I just theory-crafted for the heck of it.
I also have a really good memory, so all the minutiae stuck with me.
In short, system mastery comes with needing to read a lot.
For a monk that Wisdom-to-Damage feat is most likely the Ki Diversity Feat and take the Zen Combatant option. However that requires expending a point of your ki pool, and given the wording of it as compared to the next closest thing, Guided Hand which requires the Channel Energy class feature (so cleric dip or something else at minimum). Guided hand adds Wisdom to your attack rolls, but not damage.
I'm guessing that Ki Diversity acts the same way.
I know I seem to be pushing it, because I am, but for a non-lethal intimidation build, I think there are much better options than a monk. Might I ask why you're so keen on the monk class?
I find that sometimes players come to me with ideas about what a class entails, but that don't really hold up to how they operate mechanically. But then, remaining aware of my own biases, I very often have an initial idea, and then the mechanics of it pre-occupy me until the very end.
A lot of status things -- like just what qualifies as what for a scrying spell -- are GM judgment calls.
I agree that this situation looks to be headed for a train wreck, though.
I know I seem to be pushing it, because I am, but for a non-lethal intimidation build, I think there are much better options than a monk. Might I ask why you're so keen on the monk class?
I find that sometimes players come to me with ideas about what a class entails, but that don't really hold up to how they operate mechanically. But then, remaining aware of my own biases, I very often have an initial idea, and then the mechanics of it pre-occupy me until the very end.
I just liked the thought of a monk, either shaolin monk, or like a monastery monk that went around and spread the ways of peace. I know they have quite a few downsides, their like tier 4, 3 if you optimize a good archtype. I used to have a rogue and went with the sap adept/master line, the main reason I wasn't going that was because I was looking for something new, though it might be good to start with something that works.
I just liked the thought of a monk, either shaolin monk, or like a monastery monk that went around and spread the ways of peace. I know they have quite a few downsides, their like tier 4, 3 if you optimize a good archtype. I used to have a rogue and went with the sap adept/master line, the main reason I wasn't going that was because I was looking for something new, though it might be good to start with something that works.I know I seem to be pushing it, because I am, but for a non-lethal intimidation build, I think there are much better options than a monk. Might I ask why you're so keen on the monk class?
I find that sometimes players come to me with ideas about what a class entails, but that don't really hold up to how they operate mechanically. But then, remaining aware of my own biases, I very often have an initial idea, and then the mechanics of it pre-occupy me until the very end.
So you want a spreader-of-peace that works (mechanically) differently from a non-lethal rogue. I'd say the previous suggestion of a Kensai Bladebound Magus. You've got casting, and an intelligent item. As an INT-based caster you're still a character with a legitimate avenue to have developed self-restraint, and your intelligent whip could explicitly be guiding you on your path as well.
Pretty much any class (Except antipaladins) can have the goal of spreading peace.
So you want a spreader-of-peace that works (mechanically) differently from a non-lethal rogue. I'd say the previous suggestion of a Kensai Bladebound Magus. You've got casting, and an intelligent item. As an INT-based caster you're still a character with a legitimate avenue to have developed self-restraint, and your intelligent whip could explicitly be guiding you on your path as well.Pretty much any class (Except antipaladins) can have the goal of spreading peace.
I'll look into the Magus, it looks kinda nifty. and I basically wanted a fluffy character, that wasn't weak as crap, but I didn't want to try to make it overpowered, just be able to still keep up. with the magus, spell strike is su, but are the spells still spells or would they be something else in terms of interacting with metamagic(merciful)
I was just having a hard time with some of the classes with them keeping up with the rest of the party (already know there will be a cleric, fighter, sorc/rogue(50/50 mix...idk why) and a DMPC at the beginning to kinda guide us because we're gonna be starting right after a fight in a goblin cave. (I think he said something like we're there to find the church's holy object, in return the church will become our pretty much base of operations, letting us eat and sleep there, and for some protect us from the full force of the law. such as having to steal something that was gotten illegally but we have no proof of it; or a baddy disguised as a good guy who is plotting the downfall of the city for his dark lords; or taking back the throne from the wrongful heir, when people think the last prince was dead. these were examples the DM gave me of what he's thinking to try to bring in the "is this peaceful city truly peaceful?" almost like Ba Sing Se from AtLA)
Locate object might work. You could also kill the lich and treasure map his dried, dessicated hide, cause I bet you that he'd consider his phylactery the most treasured of his possessions.HOLY SHIZ NIBLETS xD Where did this spell come from? I just looked it up and it's awesome. I just gotta find somewhere to have it cast without the lich catching on(so he doesn't move it and all haha)
If you can't directly destroy it because of protections on it, then you can instead plane shift it to the positive energy plane. That'll probably put a kink in any plans to reconstitute.Would that destroy the phylactery too, or just constantly take out the lich?
The first.... for the spell you need the litch's hide, so he won't be able to see you cast it since he'd be dead and trying to reform AT the phylactery.
As for the positive energy plane... in general it won't be destroyed, but the Litch's corpse body will be disintegrated every time it starts to form and in no way can survive the process to generate a new body. HOWEVER things that dwell in the positive energy plane tend to be pretty good aligned things and will probably take over the 'destroy the evil magic item' job for you.
Also, your DM can slip you a ring of three wishes with one wish left, and you can, you know, wish for the Phylactery to be in your hands.