Building a slayer - dex or str?


Advice


Am somewhat new to pathfinder so excuse my quite fundamental ignorance of the mechanics.

Am playing in a homebrewed campaign, most things are accepted (within reason).

My first character died and the group is lacking in the rogue-ish department. So I ended up deciding on Slayer. Been looking around a bit and not found any actual guide for the class.
I've seen people suggest 1 lvl of swashbuckler and I get why, I'd rather have a single class for the purpose of understanding its strengths and weaknesses better though.

So down to the actual advice I ask in the headline!

Should I focus fully on dex or is str the better choice? I am not opposed to a str build, my main concern regarding that would be the skills that rely on dex - stealth more than any other.
Also any must have feats that a new player might miss?

I'm not asking for a fully optimized min-max build here, my gm is pretty lenient with the group as we're all quite new.

We've got a 25 point buy

For flavour sake, I have decided on Two Weapon Fighting. Human, half-elf or half-orc and I would also prefer sticking with pure Slayer.


Dex build is doable with a Slayer... But if you want to TWF, I think strength is going to be your best option.

Since this is replacing a dead character, I must ask: are you starting at a higher level than one? If so, you should use your 2nd, 6th, and 10th level slayer talents on TWF, ITWF, and TW Rend respectively. 4th can go to the Trapfinding talent and 8th is a freebie (though you probably want Combat Trick). I'd recommend a Half-Elf for this, since you can use the Drow Magic racial trait to qualify for Arcane Strike.

An alternative to TWF if you really want to go dexterity based is to play a switch-hitter, using a bow when enemies are distant and pulling out a rapier when they get close. You want to be Human for this, using your level 1 feats on Weapon Focus (Rapier) and Weapon Finesse so you can pick up Fencing Grace at level 3.


Anything over 20 point buy should not really consider Weapon Finesse in my opinion, you have enough stats to make a good build.

You'll have a good stealth without having to put your Dex into overdrive. There's plenty options to increase it.


Definitely Str. Slayers and Rangers have a unique advantage in that they ccan have the best of both worlds: TWFing with the extra damage of a Str based character.

I'd allocate stats somewhere in the ballpark of:

Str: 16
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int: 12
Wis: 12
Cha: 11

You can dump Cha and have an extra 3-5 points to play around with if you please, which I'd actually suggest doing for 16 15 14 12 14 7 (or 14 Int instead of Wis if you want more skills).

Then snag TWFing at 1st level or 3rd level (since you qualify) and use Combat Style to snag ITWF and GTWF at their respective levels (6 and 10). You can get Double Slice at 2nd if need be, but I'd suggest grabbing Trapfinding at 2nd and push your first Combat Style back to 4th. So you'd look a little something like this Feat-wise:

1.) Two-Weapon Fighting
3.) Power Attack (?)
5-9.) Not super important, pick what you like.

Talents:

2.) Trapfinding
4.) Double Slice
6.) Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
8.) Combat Trick?
10.) Greater Two-Weapon Fighting

By that point, you should have a +2 belt of Physical Prowess (Str/Dex) at least, so you qualify for Two-Weapon rend at 11th, OR, take TWR at 10th if you have a +4 belt already (which is very possible).

That leaves you being a solid TWFer, with a ton of Feats left over to do with as you please.

I personally just for shiggles might use them either for Half-Orc to get Die Hard and the Deathless Feat line (snagging Sacred Tattoo and Shaman's Apprentice as your alternate racial traits. Toss in Fate's Favored as your normal trait for a +2 Luck to all saves. Bangin'.) just so you're a sturdy bastard, or as a Human to Racial Heritage an Aasimar (ask your GM on this, not strictly by the rules here but reasonable) and take the two Feats that give you Wings.

You could also use them for general purpose Feats like Shadow Strike, or Extra Slayer Talent for Bleeding Attack.

You could also consider going Sword and Board as well. You'll get less attacks, but your shield is amazingly versatile (especially with Shield Master 4 levels early), being able to do a bit of battlefield control with Shield Slam, and resulting in a similar (read: better because of a higher attack bonus on the off-hand shield and basically half-price weapon) damage output with a higher AC.


well, Slayers also need more hit points, skill points and to beef up their wisdom for will saves. an on top of that, they need enough Dex to fill out mithril Kikko/Brigandine

with a 25 point buy, as a half elf with the drow blooded and drow magic alternate racials i recommend

Strength 17 (15+2)
Dexterity 15 (to fill out armor)
Constitution 14
Intelligence 14
Wisdom 14
Charisma 7

put your 4th level point in strength and your 8th level point in dexterity to fill out armor. in fact, don't even really focus on dual wielding, a 2handed bludgeoning weapon with the sap master line and cornugon smash/shatter defenses will do you better

i mean, you can use the Archery style to gain the main prerequisite free archery feats you need for ranged combat as a backup option

and you bring an earthbreaker as well as a light hammer and light shield

the earthbreaker is for fights where heavy impact matters more, the light hammer and light shield are for fights where you need the defense and the archery style is to shoot stuff you can't normally hit

but by 8th level, you should have an 18 strength and 16 dexterity to hit hard and fill out your armor

buy belts of physical perfection because against higher level foes, you will outright need the extra hit points and with extra skill points from your intellect and high intelligence for prerequisites, you qualify for a lot of stuff

take dual minded, drow blooded and drow magic as alternate racials. with drow magic and ranks in spellcraft, you can take craft wondrous item at 3rd level and start crafting your own gear later on with a skill you will be using frequently anyway

arcane strike is optional with this build and the extra damage doesn't matter as much when your 2handed power swings against your studied targets come with a free intimidate check and a mountain of extra bludgeoning damage, while being lethal or nonlethal at your discretion


Being able to use two-weapon fighting without needing all that dexterity is a colossal advantage of using the Ranger Two Weapon Style. Any weapon you pick up is automatically going to do effective damage, especially with the Studied Target bonus. With a 25 point buy you can grab just enough dexterity to qualify for Double Slice as well.

I'm not sure which way you're looking to go with weapons, but if you want something powerful and (in my opinion anyways) pretty stylish, you can also wield a cestus or spiked gauntlet with your offhand and a one-handed weapon with your mainhand. Since changing your grip is a free action, you can make any single attack like a charge or attack of opportunity with two hands on your main weapon for plenty more power. When it's time to unleash a full attack, your weapon grip switches to one hand so that you can start punching with an iron fist as well as slashing away with your weapon. You can even pick up Improved Unarmed Strike and move into Style Feats territory to use stuff like Boar Style or Dragon Style with your punch, if you like the flavor of it.


Auren "Rin" Cloudstrider wrote:
in fact, don't even really focus on dual wielding, a 2handed bludgeoning weapon with the sap master line and cornugon smash/shatter defenses will do you better

Some good ideas, but I'd have to respectfully disagree on a couple things. A two weapon style Slayer is right up there with the Guide Ranger as one of the few truly brutal ways to use two weapons. With Quick Draw or a glove weapon you don't even necessarily have to give up the advantages of two-handed attacks until a full attack makes it worth it.

Also utterly dumping charisma seems a bit excessive for a casual gamer with a 25 point buy, unless it suits the character.


A cracked Opalescent White Pyramid ioun stone costs 1500 GP and would give you weapon familiarity with a weapon, like the two-bladed sword. While I'm generally not a huge fan of exotic weapons, the two-bladed sword is a decent option for THF attacks when you can't make a full attack, and it saves you a feat on quick draw. :)


I suggest going for str. With 25 points i Favor a balanced build. Str 16, dex, con and wis 14 int 12 and cha 13 if you go human, Half elf/orc ( all stat increase in str). Great sword and either power attack or weapon focus at level 1. With that as the basic the rest Will be a bit more forgiving.
What level do you start?


Pathfinder Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Lostcause78 wrote:

Should I focus fully on dex or is str the better choice? I am not opposed to a str build, my main concern regarding that would be the skills that rely on dex - stealth more than any other.

Also any must have feats that a new player might miss?

I'm not asking for a fully optimized min-max build here, my gm is pretty lenient with the group as we're all quite new.

We've got a 25 point buy

For flavour sake, I have decided on Two Weapon Fighting. Human, half-elf or half-orc and I would also prefer sticking with pure Slayer.

Str if you want to do melee, which you evidently do based on selected weapon style. Dex does help with most of your skills.

What are you looking for out of Slayer? Are you looking to make an all-around skill monkey or just to handle traps? You've mentioned stealth, just wondering what else you are looking for.

Read the ranger guide, especially the section about the switch hitter ranger. Being able to take a Ranger combat style means not having to obey the prerequisites on that style. For TWF that means you can put more into Str for the damage and to hit.

Do a rough draft of what skills you want, then check if you will want a higher Int because of that.

As for guides, read the Rogue guide and the Ranger guides then adjust as appropriate based on your concept for the character.


Thanks for the many replies so far, good stuff!

To answer a couple of questions, I start as lvl 4 and the concept is a mercenary style slayer, so a bit more ranger than rogue combatwise.

As for weapons I like to be somewhat iconic in style, short swords or combat daggers of some sort, expecting longswords/scimitars/similar would be harder to wield?
Also is it good or bad to wield different weapons? Such as larger weapon in main hand and a smaller weapon in offhand.

think I am sold on the rounded stat build focussing on str


Lostcause78 wrote:

As for weapons I like to be somewhat iconic in style, short swords or combat daggers of some sort, expecting longswords/scimitars/similar would be harder to wield?

Also is it good or bad to wield different weapons? Such as larger weapon in main hand and a smaller weapon in offhand.

You probably want to avoid using a normal sized weapon in your offhand, but other than that it's pretty much open. Weapon Focus and Improved Critical only apply to one weapon, but not having them - or only having them on your mainhand - is a pretty marginal difference.

The 1-hander with a spiked gauntlet or cestus combo I mentioned, or a double weapon as someone else mentioned, are powerful because you don't have to worry about drawing or sheathing your second weapon, and you can make single attacks two-handed to really beef up your damage. But again the difference isn't that serious, so just use whatever you like the look of.

EDIT: Come to think of it, swinging two Falcatas with the Slayer's attack bonuses might actually pay off, since they have both a larger damage die and a truly brutal critical...


Thank you :)


I don't know if the glory that is the falcata is worth taking a -4 on all your attacks. Something worth considering if you plan on using an exotic weapon anyway, is the Sawtooth Saber. 1d8 19-20/x2 that counts as a light weapon for the purposes of TWF and TWF only. Keep one in a Glove of Storing or on a weapon cord and you can switch between TWF and THF depending on your need.

When you purchase your Cracked Opalescent White Pyramid(s), remember to get them implanted. It only takes a couple mid-20 DC Heal checks, and you don't have to worry about them being snatched or sundered.


Falcata + Shield is less bad. You'll be taking a -4 on those hits, but a potential 17-20/x3 crit makes up for it, especially with Favored Target essentially taking you back to baseline +1 with more damage by 10th.


GhanjRho wrote:
I don't know if the glory that is the falcata is worth taking a -4 on all your attacks.

Dual falcata is only -2 compared to other TWF options. Compared to dual kukri you're trading -2ab for +2damage and an upgrade to the best crits in game. It's generally a better deal that what Power Attack gives two weapons, though with Slayer attack bonuses, Weapon Focus and a nice, solid strength score you've potentially got the ab to run both and watch those massive chops roll heads.

Anyhow, not focusing on a light weapon means being able to two-hand your main weapon when it's advantageous. Assuming you have Quick Draw (which itself can do some funky things with throwing two weapons with a high strength score and a studied target bonus), you can rely on two-handing through charges or running battles until it's time to make a full attack.


I've just started a Slayer and here's what I'm trying out -

Half-Elf with the alternate Exotic Weapon proficiency racial instead of skill focus.
20 point buy: Str 17. Dex 16. Con 12. 10 for Int, Wis, & Cha

Grabbed the 2-Bladed Sword for my weapon. This should now allow me to TWF for full round attacks but allow me to get the slight extra damage boost for 2-handed attacking when I only attack once a round.

Still tweaking my build and not sure where its going or how it will play.


Sounds nice Matt, let us know how it goes!


Here's what I have so far - still in the process of a lot of tweaking.

Half-Elf with the alternate Exotic Weapon proficiency racial instead of skill focus.
20 point buy: Str 17. Dex 16. Con 12. 10 for Int, Wis, & Cha

Class: Slayer

1) Feat: TWF, Study target, Track
2) Talent - Rogue Weapon Training (Weapon Focus): 2-bladed Swords.
3) +1d6 Sneak, Feat: Double Slice
4) Strength bump to 18, Talent: Trapfinding
5) 2nd studied target, Feat: Iron Will
6) +2d6 sneak, Slayer talent - Rogues: Trap Spotter
7) Stalker, Feat: Dodge
8) Strength bump to 19, Talent - Ranger Style: Improved TWF
9) +3d6 Sneak, Feat: Slayer talent - Rogues: Powerful Sneak (what can I say, the 1s like me)
10) 3rd Studied target, Advance Talents - Ranger Style: 2-Weapon Rend
11) Figure this out when I get near it...if I do.

I'm very worried about the survivability of this character as he has a low CON for a melee and no real defencive feats or talents.

If anyone has any advice, I really have only a limited idea on how this will work.

I really wanted it to go with the Vanguard Archetype but I haven't been able to get that to work.


Matt2VK wrote:

Here's what I have so far - still in the process of a lot of tweaking.

Half-Elf with the alternate Exotic Weapon proficiency racial instead of skill focus.
20 point buy: Str 17. Dex 16. Con 12. 10 for Int, Wis, & Cha

Class: Slayer

1) Feat: TWF, Study target, Track
2) Talent - Rogue Weapon Training (Weapon Focus): 2-bladed Swords.
3) +1d6 Sneak, Feat: Double Slice
4) Strength bump to 18, Talent: Trapfinding
5) 2nd studied target, Feat: Iron Will
6) +2d6 sneak, Slayer talent - Rogues: Trap Spotter
7) Stalker, Feat: Dodge
8) Strength bump to 19, Talent - Ranger Style: Improved TWF
9) +3d6 Sneak, Feat: Slayer talent - Rogues: Powerful Sneak (what can I say, the 1s like me)
10) 3rd Studied target, Advance Talents - Ranger Style: 2-Weapon Rend
11) Figure this out when I get near it...if I do.

I'm very worried about the survivability of this character as he has a low CON for a melee and no real defencive feats or talents.

If anyone has any advice, I really have only a limited idea on how this will work.

I really wanted it to go with the Vanguard Archetype but I haven't been able to get that to work.

I don't think you can pick Imp twf and rend without first picking the first tier of slayer talent-ranger style.

Although since at lvl 3 you hhave double slice as a feat, you can simply change it to extra talent- ranger style- double slice

Also, pucking up gr twf with the third style feat will save you from having to worry about dex. You can pick up rend at 11 with your normal feat


Auren "Rin" Cloudstrider wrote:
take dual minded, drow blooded and drow magic as alternate racials. with drow magic and ranks in spellcraft, you can take craft wondrous item at 3rd level and start crafting your own gear later on with a skill you will be using frequently anyway

I will go against the group here and be the one to say don't take drow blooded. I say so due to something you missed (or you just listed this weirdly)- you can't take dual minded and drow blooded at the same time since they both replace adaptability.

Dual minded is the better choice- a strait, untyped +2 to wills saves. That shores up your defenses nicely, and if you throw in iron will and maybe 12 wis, and you will have no problems with will saves. This (with maybe a switch out for half-orc for their +1 luck to all saves) is my method for making martial characters that are the stereotypical 'aim the dominate at them to TPK' types.

But this doesn't mean that the arcane strike trick isn't good. In fact, I say take it further and take riving strike, which is an ACG feat that makes anything you hit while your weapons are using arcane strike take a -2 to saves against spells. Your glittered up weapons suddenly make you a nice little debuffer.

But how to qualify for arcane strike? Take the Light-Bringer traitfor Sarenrae worshippers. That trait is great since it is one of only two trait based SLAs (the other being a religion trait of the dwarven god of marriage) that scales with your level. All other trait SLAs give you a 'your highest caster level gained or CL 1'. But Light-bringer skips that and gives you a CL=Level.

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