Goblin Squad Member
|
In all the six-ring hexes around Alderwag, I get a "You do not have the skill to harvest anything here" error when I try to dig through trash piles. My scavenging skill is 5, which ought to be high enough to sift through garbage, I should think. Other nodes work fine. Is anyone else having trouble with trash?
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Others have had the same experience in the past. (on Day 1 of alpha 7 I found dozens of middens in the north that I couldn't harvest.) Once or twice is not unreasonable (Even trash nodes can have only tier 2 goods in them), but if you get a lot, it is probably an issue. Did you try logging out and checking again?
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Others have had the same experience in the past. (on Day 1 of alpha 7 I found dozens of middens in the north that I couldn't harvest.) Once or twice is not unreasonable (Even trash nodes can have only tier 2 goods in them), but if you get a lot, it is probably an issue. Did you try logging out and checking again?
Yup, this is the second day in a row that I've encountered the problem. It does seem like the number of midden heaps in these hexes has increased recently, which is welcome, but a fat lot of good it does me if I can't scrounge them.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Others have had the same experience in the past. (on Day 1 of alpha 7 I found dozens of middens in the north that I couldn't harvest.) Once or twice is not unreasonable (Even trash nodes can have only tier 2 goods in them), but if you get a lot, it is probably an issue. Did you try logging out and checking again?Yup, this is the second day in a row that I've encountered the problem. It does seem like the number of midden heaps in these hexes has increased recently, which is welcome, but a fat lot of good it does me if I can't scrounge them.
If you can't get any further with it today, maybe we can meet up tonight and do some testing. Cal isn't too far away (fingers crossed) and has midden harvesting 7, so should be able to get something if it is a real case of them all being full of T2 stuff.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Having the harvesting skill at 7 or 8 removes almost all of that.
However I've been miner 8 (T2) for a month and I still occasionally find rocks that tell me I do not have the skill to harvest anything here, so bigger stuff is already out there waiting for us.
Way back in Alpha 7 I was miner 16 and still got that.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I sometimes get the no skill to harvest message under the following conditions:
1. I have just left the settlement hex.
2. The "pyramid" settlement icon still is visible on the edge of the minimap circle.
If I get that no-harvest message, I can continue deeper into the new hex, until the hex-type symbol changes. I can then return to the node and harvest normally.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I sometimes get the no skill to harvest message under the following conditions:
1. I have just left the settlement hex.
2. The "pyramid" settlement icon still is visible on the edge of the minimap circle.If I get that no-harvest message, I can continue deeper into the new hex, until the hex-type symbol changes. I can then return to the node and harvest normally.
ooh that is definitely a bug.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I sometimes get the no skill to harvest message under the following conditions:
1. I have just left the settlement hex.
2. The "pyramid" settlement icon still is visible on the edge of the minimap circle.If I get that no-harvest message, I can continue deeper into the new hex, until the hex-type symbol changes. I can then return to the node and harvest normally.
Interesting... I'm going to try that later.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
ooh that is definitely a bug.Yeah. The game should do a sanity check as soon as we try to harvest. Game: what is the character's grid coordinates? Oh - dang :quietly updates hex-type symbol: oh, hey, harvest *is* legit here.
The game should do a sanity check as soon as we try to do a lot of things.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
That "sanity check" will balloon into a monstrously inefficient validation routine that's happening all the time.
The point of Alpha (and to an extent Early Enrollment) is to identify where the optimized solutions are not functioning and to fix them, not to obviate them by duplicating work at multiple points in the process.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
If there is a bug, it is not the Inability of a Scavenger 5 to harvest anything, it is the contents.
As a Scavenger 7 (70%) I've been through five hexes of a six hex ring around Alderwag. I have logged out and back in thrice to be sure there were no synchronization issues.
In 34 middens, I have found 34 Perfect Deep Blue Spinel (T2 Raw Gem) I have not found a single other thing in any of the 34 middens.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Final score for finishing the six hex loop around Alderwag (including getting the half of the first hex I'd missed the first time:
58 middens, 58 Perfect Deep Blue Spinel (T2 Raw Gem) I have not found a single other thing in any of the 58 middens. There's a slight chance that there was more than one spinel per midden and I missed it. After a while, I just stopped counting the middens and relied on the spinel count, watching only in case something else came up.
A gatherer of below level seven would not have been able to harvest any midden in those six hexes.
I also noticed a preponderance of T2 produce in the plant nodes, so I cleaned those up for you, too ;-P
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
If there is a bug, it is not the Inability of a Scavenger 5 to harvest anything, it is the contents.
As a Scavenger 7 (70%) I've been through five hexes of a six hex ring around Alderwag. I have logged out and back in thrice to be sure there were no synchronization issues.
In 34 middens, I have found 34 Perfect Deep Blue Spinel (T2 Raw Gem) I have not found a single other thing in any of the 34 middens.
That sounds more like a loot table with very few T1 items so they all got harvested almost straight away.
|
Goblinworks Game Designer
|
I sometimes get the no skill to harvest message under the following conditions:
1. I have just left the settlement hex.
2. The "pyramid" settlement icon still is visible on the edge of the minimap circle.If I get that no-harvest message, I can continue deeper into the new hex, until the hex-type symbol changes. I can then return to the node and harvest normally.
Hmm. My guess is you may not have gotten fully transferred to the next hex, so it's trying to pull resources from the hex it thinks you're in (the settlement hex, which has no resources) rather than the one you're standing in that spawned the node.
I'll ask around tomorrow to see if they've ruled that out as a possibility.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I sometimes get the no skill to harvest message under the following conditions:
1. I have just left the settlement hex.
2. The "pyramid" settlement icon still is visible on the edge of the minimap circle.If I get that no-harvest message, I can continue deeper into the new hex, until the hex-type symbol changes. I can then return to the node and harvest normally.
Hmm. My guess is you may not have gotten fully transferred to the next hex, so it's trying to pull resources from the hex it thinks you're in (the settlement hex, which has no resources) rather than the one you're standing in that spawned the node.
I'll ask around tomorrow to see if they've ruled that out as a possibility.
Yeah, I figured it was something like that. I can see that I'm across the hex line in the minimap, but I can also see that the game still thinks I'm in the settlement. There's always an issue in transition spaces; if I run down a hex edge, I don't really expect it to check when I cross the line every time.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
If there is a bug, it is not the Inability of a Scavenger 5 to harvest anything, it is the contents.
As a Scavenger 7 (70%) I've been through five hexes of a six hex ring around Alderwag. I have logged out and back in thrice to be sure there were no synchronization issues.
In 34 middens, I have found 34 Perfect Deep Blue Spinel (T2 Raw Gem) I have not found a single other thing in any of the 34 middens.
I sort of also have a case of the Perfect Deep Blue Spinel blues in that area.
Around the hexes of Stoneroot I have Mining 90:
True Coal
Perfect Bloodstone
Perfect Deep Blue Spinel
Potent Saltpeter
Potent Cinnabar
Potent Brimstone
Potent Paraffin Wax
I have Foresting 30:
Potent Juniper Berries
Pine Logs
I have Scavenger 30:
You do not have the skill to harvest anything here
I have Dowser 30:
Uncanny Antithesis Essence
Uncanny Esoteric Essence
Are our interactions with mineral nodes impacting resources? If so how? It's been like this for weeks.
On the bright side we have everything we need to build as many +1 charged wands and staffs as we want.
|
Goblinworks Lead Game Designer
|
Are our interactions with mineral nodes impacting resources? If so how? It's been like this for weeks.On the bright side we have everything we need to build as many +1 charged wands and staffs as we want.
There is a bug in the system currently that resource ratings are being reset each time the server resets, i.e. every morning. So even if you exhaust a resource, it will be back to full after the restart the next morning. This is in addition to checks run every 15 minutes to restore resources bit by bit if they are below max. So gathering has an impact, just not a long term one.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
There is a bug in the system currently that resource ratings are being reset each time the server resets, i.e. every morning. So even if you exhaust a resource, it will be back to full after the restart the next morning. This is in addition to checks run every 15 minutes to restore resources bit by bit if they are below max. So gathering has an impact, just not a long term one.
Are our interactions with mineral nodes impacting resources? If so how? It's been like this for weeks.On the bright side we have everything we need to build as many +1 charged wands and staffs as we want.
What's the long term plan for how it should work? If it wasn't bugged what should we see? I'm thinking of investing in a gatherer focused character and want to know how higher skills will impact a hex.
I got a dumb question for everyone though. Was there a blog post or is there a place that explains what all the terrain types are, their icons and what resources to expect? And how much do they vary based on map location or just terrain type?
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Quick request: While question marks are being replaced with actual icons in many areas of PFO, could we also get icons for hex classification (normal, monster home hex, etc.) that are not repurposed terrain icons? Using terrain symbols here is worse than a lack of information; it's misleading information.
They don't have to be snappy, representative pictograms, either. A big green N for normal, a red MH for monster home, and I'd be happy until the pretty icons were done.
During the closed Alpha and the invite-only Alpha, the misused terrain symbols weren't great, but they were acceptable. Starting with the Stress Test, we've entered a phase when we can't expect every player to have scoured the message boards and spreadsheets to find the one post that contains the 'terrain icons to hex categories' key. Let's not confuse people unnecessarily by making them climb hills in a hex that's marked Plains, when it really means "No Escalation Here".
|
Goblinworks Lead Game Designer
|
| 8 people marked this as a favorite. |
So the system as it's intended:
There are a 130 resources in the game. Each hex has a rating, generally 0-5000, for each of these resources. Usually hexes have 0 in most resources. Each hex has a total "value" of resources, which is the value of all the resources in the hex at server start in terms of of the crafting system. In figuring out how much of a given resource is required for making an item we assigned values to each resource, but these are not prices as the price of a piece of iron ore is ultimately going to be determined by the player. We just needed some rough relative values to determine the ratios of adamantine to iron in the world and such.
Each terrain has certain types of resources it favors. For example, you tend find more iron in mountains and wood in woodlands. These rules are not hard and fast though; you can scavenge iron in croplands hexes. Woodlands, croplands, coastlands, and wetlands hexes have dowsing, scavenging, and forestry nodes while highlands, mountains, and brokenlands (meteor craters) have dowsing, mining, and forestry nodes. In a given hex you can only get a resource out of one node type, but you can get brimstone out of a scavenging node and a mining node in different hexes.
Terrains:
Woodlands hexes produce wood and a variety of herbs from forestry nodes, gems, metals, leather, cloth, and chemicals from scavenging nodes, and essence from dowsing nodes.
Croplands hexes produce a wide variety of herbs from forestry nodes, cloth, leather, gems, metals, and chemicals from scavenging nodes, and essence from dowsing nodes.
Wetlands produce a wide variety of herbs from forestry nodes (with a higher rate of color herbs), cloth, leather, gems, metals, and lots of chemicals from scavenging nodes, and essence from dowsing nodes.
Highlands produce a few herbs from forestry nodes, chemicals, gems, and coal from mining nodes, and essence from dowsing nodes.
Mountains produce a few herbs from forestry nodes, chemicals, gems, and metals from mining nodes, and essence from dowsing nodes.
Regions:
The map is broken up into a number of regions, each of which have their own resource themes. For example, the Northern Cragthorns are the mountains to the southwest of Thornkeep and they are the only mountains in the game rich in copper, meanhwhile the Southern Thorncrags down near Brighthaven and Phaeros are the only mountains in the game rich in gold and the Southern Echo Peaks just north of Thornkeep are rich in silver.
Hex Types:
Starter/NPC hexes generally have non-zero ratings in 10-15 resources, all of which are tier 1. With the next update you will see that they provide a wide variety of resources so tier 1 characters can find what they need without going to far, but are still limited to terrain and region appropriate resources. The total value of resources in a NPC/starter hex is approximately 1/3 a wilderness hex and 1/64 that of a monster hex. Any hex neighboring a starter settlement, within 2 hexes of Thornkeep, or along the major roads is a starter/NPC hex. These cannot become infected with escalations and will not be claimable by PCs in any portion of territorial conflicts.
Wilderness hexes, which are most hexes, have non-zero ratings in 8-15 resources with a mix of tier 1 and tier 2. These resources are limited by terrain and region, some some woodland hexes have lots of pine while others have lots of maple These differences are usually along geographic lines, like mainly pine in the north and maple in the south. The total value of the resources in a wilderness hex are approximately x3 as much as an NPC starter hex, and 1/20th that of a monster hex.
Monster hexes have non-zero ratings in 6-20 resources from all tiers, but most of their value comes from tier 3 resources following region and terrain restrictions. Despite having so much more value than other hex types, monster hexes can be tapped out about as quickly as a wilderness hex, if not more so.
Each time you remove a resource from a node, the associated rating for that hex decreases by one. If that rating reaches 0, that resource stops appearing in nodes in that hex. If all the resources for a node type reach 0, those nodes stop spawning in the hex. Every fifteen minutes the system runs a check to see if the resource rating should increase by 1; the chance of increase is (the current rating of the node)/(original rating of the node). So if the hex originally has iron of 1000 and you harvest 10 units of ore, it has an iron rating of 990 and there is a 990/1000=99% chance it will get one point of iron back when the next 15 minute resource rating check comes around. This means if you really take a lot of resources out of a hex the harder it will be for it to replenish, the higher the value the more you can take out before you begin to notice the slow down in replenishment, and the more resources in a hex the more checks the system runs to see if resources are to be replenished. So a hex with a few high rating resources will be more likely to replenish those ratings, while a hex with a large number of low resource ratings will be easier to tap out on any single resource, but will have the chance to restore more value to the hex overall by running more checks.
Currently the system is refilling all the resources every server day, so a lot of the paragraph above is effectively invisible. Sure if a resource rating is 200 or below you may get it to 0 in 24 hours, but if it's 3000 that's not so likely.
The lower the resource rating is compared to the original rating, the more likely you are to get impure (i.e. heavier) resources.
The likelihood to get more than two resources per node is based on your skill level.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Regions:
The map is broken up into a number of regions, each of which have their own resource themes. For example, the Northern Cragthorns are the mountains to the southwest of Thornkeep and they are the only mountains in the game rich in copper, meanhwhile the Southern Thorncrags down near Brighthaven and Phaeros are the only mountains in the game rich in gold and the Southern Echo Peaks just north of Thornkeep are rich in silver.
This is the first I hear of a "regional" map with names for mountain ranges and passes. Is this an informal map that GW staff makes reference to, or is there an actual map of the area divided by regional names/terrain types?
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Thanks, Lee. It sounds like a dynamic system that will encourage our gatherers to either tread lightly, or move across the landscape like locusts as they strip each hex of resources.
The next big wrinkle will be how much each gatherer can carry, and how far afield they're willing to go before they start gathering.
|
Goblinworks Lead Game Designer
|
This is the first I hear of a "regional" map with names for mountain ranges and passes. Is this an informal map that GW staff makes reference to, or is there an actual map of the area divided by regional names/terrain types?
Regions:
The map is broken up into a number of regions, each of which have their own resource themes. For example, the Northern Cragthorns are the mountains to the southwest of Thornkeep and they are the only mountains in the game rich in copper, meanhwhile the Southern Thorncrags down near Brighthaven and Phaeros are the only mountains in the game rich in gold and the Southern Echo Peaks just north of Thornkeep are rich in silver.
There is an actual map, but the only thing it does is help me organize what areas produce what resources. I could have called them Mountain Range 1, Mountain Range 2, etc, but I figured I would put something in more interesting. Unfortunately I don't really have a good clean version that would provide more answers than questions really.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
@ Mr Hammock
I have a concern!!!!
Yes I am whining again.
The Southern Echo Peaks have a good bit of coal around Ossian's Crossing. There is the option of a "wood" for "iron" etc... economy, but you are messing with many NW settlements and what was "theirs".
Does the NW have a unique gatherable resource?
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Regions:
The map is broken up into a number of regions, each of which have their own resource themes. For example, the Northern Cragthorns are the mountains to the southwest of Thornkeep and they are the only mountains in the game rich in copper, meanhwhile the Southern Thorncrags down near Brighthaven and Phaeros are the only mountains in the game rich in gold and the Southern Echo Peaks just north of Thornkeep are rich in silver.
@Giorgo, if the mountains north of Thornkeep are called "the Southern Echo Peaks", maybe that's it? When I look at the big OE map, Forgeholm is definitely in the south edge of that mass of mountains.
@Lee Hammock (only in jest): It looks like the name of the Cragthorns and Thorncrags has been the subject of some long-running differences and possibly even feuds between mapmakers, unsure what to call these two ranges...
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I have a concern!!!!
Yes I am whining again.
The Southern Echo Peaks have a good bit of coal around Ossian's Crossing. There is the option of a "wood" for "iron" etc... economy, but you are messing with many NW settlements and what was "theirs".
Does the NW have a unique gatherable resource?
My guess is Belladonna Berries. They're everywhere in the far NW; by far the most common item I find in Nature nodes. I just hope they're vital for an important, popular recipe, so people in other regions have some incentive to buy the silly things.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
So, in order to maintain maximum resource ratings, we shouldn't harvest more than 72 units of a particular resource per hex per day.
That seems really low, as I can clear that in around an hour with just one character. I'm foreseeing a lot of depleted hexes in our near future....
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Thanks Lee, good to know! It sounds like the more we harvest the less likely nodes will regenerate. Will there be resets? If we get to zero and nodes no longer generate at all what happens?
My guess is Belladonna Berries. They're everywhere in the far NW; by far the most common item I find in Nature nodes. I just hope they're vital for an important, popular recipe, so people in other regions have some incentive to buy the silly things.
They can be used for Weak Deadly. With the latest update all +2 tanner recipes will need it. Like Ordered Essence it sounds like it will be valuable.
I would like to know what kind of love we're getting in the Northwest. Seems like a lot of vitals and numinous if we're comparing mining stuff. Not much metal but plenty of gems.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I actually found some use for Belladonna berries in a low level alchemy mixture, but I dont recall wich it was. I rememer it because I had left a heap of them in my Alderwag Vault and wished I hadn't.
Very interesting with the resource info. So there is no actual environment parameter? So all nodes within a hex is the same independent of the location such as river bed, glade or roadside. Is there any plans for a future environmental distribution, like making gold more commonly found in riverbeds mineral nodes than in mineral nodes spawned on roads...
Goblinworks Executive Founder
|
So, in order to maintain maximum resource ratings, we shouldn't harvest more than 72 units of a particular resource per hex per day.
That seems really low, as I can clear that in around an hour with just one character. I'm foreseeing a lot of depleted hexes in our near future....
Are you respecting encumbrance limits while doing that?
I foresee deliberate attempts to deplete resources of rivals, based on that extreme scarcity.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Thanks Lee, good to know! It sounds like the more we harvest the less likely nodes will regenerate. Will there be resets? If we get to zero and nodes no longer generate at all what happens?
My guess is Belladonna Berries. They're everywhere in the far NW; by far the most common item I find in Nature nodes. I just hope they're vital for an important, popular recipe, so people in other regions have some incentive to buy the silly things.They can be used for Weak Deadly. With the latest update all +2 tanner recipes will need it. Like Ordered Essence it sounds like it will be valuable.
I would like to know what kind of love we're getting in the Northwest. Seems like a lot of vitals and numinous if we're comparing mining stuff. Not much metal but plenty of gems.
You're finding lots of numinous gems? There must be a regional divide for gemstones between Stoneroot Glade and Tavernhold, because I've found very few numinous gems.
If you have too many on your hands, drop them in the Talonguard AH and I'll come buy them.
|
Goblinworks Lead Game Designer
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
An important distinction to keep in mind: I said that gold could only be mined in the Southern Thorncrags. I did not say it could not be scavenged elsewhere. Same with silver and copper.
And it is supposed to be Thorncrags...because I think it sounds better.
Forgehelm is in the Southern Echo Peaks.
The hills in the NW of the map have approximately 55% of the coal in the game. So in 60 hexes out of 900, you have half of all of a major resource in the game. Plus 50% of the bloodstone, 70% of the brimstone and juniper berries, 66% of the cinnabar, 90% of the saltpeter, and all of the parafin wax, quicklime, aqua mortis, and aqua fortis in the game.
All of the resources in the game show up where they do not just because of terrain and region, but also projected demand. We have a bunch of spreadsheets to try and figure out how much of each resource players will want, and gold for example never gets a lot of demand so it's never going to be present in a wide swath of hexes. Coal on the other hand is needed in such vast quantities we can't restrict it to only the hill hexes we have present on the map unless those hexes only produced coal...and maybe not even then. It's easier to restrict off higher tier stuff, thus the hills are the place to go for tier 2 and 3 chemicals. These demand numbers will be updated as we see actual demand in game (on the next build you'll get a refined resource chart that does just that, putting more copper into the world and less silver).
|
Goblinworks Lead Game Designer
|
So, in order to maintain maximum resource ratings, we shouldn't harvest more than 72 units of a particular resource per hex per day.
That seems really low, as I can clear that in around an hour with just one character. I'm foreseeing a lot of depleted hexes in our near future....
96 per day technically, but your point is still valid. Expecting to do all your harvesting next door to your settlement is not going to be effective in the long term. People should go to the frontiers to really find large supplies of items.
|
Goblinworks Lead Game Designer
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I actually found some use for Belladonna berries in a low level alchemy mixture, but I dont recall wich it was. I rememer it because I had left a heap of them in my Alderwag Vault and wished I hadn't.
Very interesting with the resource info. So there is no actual environment parameter? So all nodes within a hex is the same independent of the location such as river bed, glade or roadside. Is there any plans for a future environmental distribution, like making gold more commonly found in riverbeds mineral nodes than in mineral nodes spawned on roads...
We have a plan to go to a placed node system rather than the pure random system we have currently, which would fix a lot of the nodes in weird places issues we have now. With such a change we could make them more location relevant, but that project is a ways off as it is a lot of work.
|
Goblinworks Lead Game Designer
|
On a side note, the system as described provides no way for a resource at zero to replenish; is that intended?
Anything reduced to 0 or a negative number automatically increases by 1 each 15 minute check. The negative number thing comes up if you happen to get a lot of items out of a node, and once we get the harvesting/gusher system online.