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Bonus Combat Feats: At 2nd level and every 3 levels thereafter, a brawler gains a bonus combat feat in addition to those gained from normal advancement. These bonus feats must be ones that affect or improve her defenses or melee attacks. The brawler must meet the prerequisites of the selected bonus combat feat.
From the brawler's bonus feat entry. What exactly does this mean? Is it defined anywhere?
Here's an example that probably isn't allowed but could be argued that it is. Improved Initiative doesn't improve melee attacks, obviously. But it could be argued that it improved defense by making you act sooner in combat which would make you be caught flat-footed less often. Being caught flat-footed less often is obviously better for your defense. Improved Initiative is a combat feat so it should be able to be taken.
I'm sure there are other examples of feats that probably weren't intended to be taken as a bonus feat in this way, but can be argued in such a way that they could be allowed. So to the original point, is this clarified anywhere?
You have to apply reason at some point. Extra Channel help you live longer, which improve your ability to continue to make melee attacks. But that's clearly not intentional.
If the feat doesn't specifically address defenses or melee attacks, it probably wasn't intended to qualify as a brawler bonus feat. I can't think of a way that Paizo could have worded this that would avoid such parsing issues, so it's up to the reader to use their head.
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You have to apply reason at some point. Extra Channel help you live longer, which improve your ability to continue to make melee attacks. But that's clearly not intentional.
If the feat doesn't specifically address defenses or melee attacks, it probably wasn't intended to qualify as a brawler bonus feat. I can't think of a way that Paizo could have worded this that would avoid such parsing issues, so it's up to the reader to use their head.
I figured as much. I was hoping for something more concrete so it wouldn't be left to the GM (to say no), but I didn't figure there was anything out there more than what it says.
The way I see it, is if it alters your Defenses or Melee abilities in any way, it applies.
Even if it's merely changing your Unarmed from Bludgeoning to Piercing damage via Snake Style.
That should.definitely qualify.
I think the should have just said restricted to Combat feats, not including feats which modify ranged attacks.
That would have been more clear, I think.
That particular bit of verbiage is among the reasons I haven't built a Brawler. The designer in me really couldn't come up with a good reason to limit combat feats further with an undefined term.
Here's some examples of other questionable feats:
Improved Trip
Improved Grapple
Combat Reflexes
Agile Maneuvers
Mounted Combat
Those are just from the CRB.
It means that Paizo doesn't know how to prioritize design aspects, leaving in that pointless restriction and then cutting entire class features another archetype relies on because of"word count".
Golly gee I certainly do wonder why you didn't have enough words there, eh?
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Here's some examples of other questionable feats:
Improved Trip
Improved Grapple
Combat Reflexes
Agile Maneuvers
Mounted CombatThose are just from the CRB.
The maneuver feats all enhance melee attacks, so valid choices despite the inane thread elsewhere in this forum. Combat Reflexes enhance AoOs, which are melee attacks unless you are a zen archer or have point blank master. Since the default options for AoOs are melee attacks, it applies.
Mounted combat though, it doesn't enhance your defenses, so it doesn't apply. It's fitting though, because close combat and mounted combat don't go together.
Here's some examples of other questionable feats:
Improved Trip
Improved Grapple
Combat Reflexes
Agile Maneuvers
Mounted CombatThose are just from the CRB.
The maneuver feats all enhance melee attacks, so valid choices despite the inane thread elsewhere in this forum. Combat Reflexes enhance AoOs, which are melee attacks unless you are a zen archer or have point blank master. Since the default options for AoOs are melee attacks, it applies.
Mounted combat though, it doesn't enhance your defenses, so it doesn't apply. It's fitting though, because close combat and mounted combat don't go together.
I agree with your assessment.
To the inane thread it is specific to if you can parry combat maneuvers, not whether they generally are considered to be a melee attack.
Here's some examples of other questionable feats:
Improved Trip
Improved Grapple
Combat Reflexes
Agile Maneuvers
Mounted CombatThose are just from the CRB.
The maneuver feats all enhance melee attacks, so valid choices despite the inane thread elsewhere in this forum. Combat Reflexes enhance AoOs, which are melee attacks unless you are a zen archer or have point blank master. Since the default options for AoOs are melee attacks, it applies.
Mounted combat though, it doesn't enhance your defenses, so it doesn't apply. It's fitting though, because close combat and mounted combat don't go together.
Generally, I would hope that your assessment is correct. Unfortunately for the combat maneuver feats, it's unclear whether "attack" means a damaging attack or an offensive action. I agree that they're melee, and I would deem them to be attacks in the general sense of the term, but being either a standard action Combat Maneuver or a replacement to a melee attack (either in a full attack sequence or in place of a standard action melee attack) does not necessarily make them a melee attack.
For Combat Reflexes, the argument you've made sounds logical, but enhance is a tricky word. Does increasing = enhance for the sake of this feat?
A couple definitions to consider from the CRB:
Melee Attacks: With a normal melee weapon, you can strike any opponent within 5 feet. (Opponents within 5 feet are considered adjacent to you.) Some melee weapons have reach, as indicated in their descriptions. With a typical reach weapon, you can strike opponents 10 feet away, but you can't strike adjacent foes (those within 5 feet).
Performing a Combat Maneuver: When performing a combat maneuver, you must use an action appropriate to the maneuver you are attempting to perform. While many combat maneuvers can be performed as part of an attack action, full-attack action, or attack of opportunity (in place of a melee attack), others require a specific action.
My problem is whether "enhancing a melee attack" uses a tight definition or a colloquial one.
My problem is whether "enhancing a melee attack" uses a tight definition or a colloquial one.
In the context of this ability, I think it is colloquial. I would let any/all melee combat maneuver feats benefit from it.
I would say that yes, stabbing shot affects melee attacks by allowing you to make a melee attack with an arrow without penalty in place of a rapid shot.
Now I want to make a brarcher. (Brawlcher?)
And I think it should be Brawlcher.
I like Archwler myself.
Archler seems more pronounceable.And I think it should be Brawlcher.I like Archwler myself.
Besides, Brawlcher brings to my mind a brawler who mulches opponents.
Archler seems more pronounceable.And I think it should be Brawlcher.I like Archwler myself.
But Archler just reminds me of the Onceler from the Lorax.