Swarm VS Swarm ?


Rules Questions


Can a swarm be used as an attack against an existing swarm ?

For example could a swarm be summoned to attack an encountered swarm ?
It seems to work by my reading....but I wanted to see if I was missing something.


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Well swarm DMG isn't weapon DMG so I say sure it's legal, in fact I once summoned a frog swarm to battle a wasp swarm which lead us to the same question as above.


The BIG question would be is a swarm susceptible to another swarms distraction o-0 ???


This is all part of why people hate swarms. Everything about them is so aggravating and tedious, the best counter is another swarm.


DominusMegadeus wrote:
This is all part of why people hate swarms. Everything about them is so aggravating and tedious, the best counter is another swarm.

...Or AoE damage. Most groups use AoE attacks.


Yes. Swarm damage is not weapon damage.

Shadow Lodge

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This is the BEST way to deal with a swarm! Set it up and let them have at it!

Place bets on which swarm will win!

Grand Lodge

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Yes, and it counts as an attack that affects an area.


IIRC swarms can't share the same space, seem to recall James Jacobs saying something about it. (a more specific post than this one)

Silver Crusade

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Avatar-1 wrote:

This is the BEST way to deal with a swarm! Set it up and let them have at it!

Place bets on which swarm will win!

Monkey swarm vs bees!!

Monkey vs amoebas!

The possibilities are endless.

Now, since I'm an evil jerk.. I have to throw this into the ring.

What happens when swarms interact with troop units? Do they nauseate the whole troop with distraction? The troop's considerably bigger (20 squares at least to a swarm's 4), so can the swarm even affect the whole troop?

Does the troop attack damage a swarm, or does it count as a 'weapon attack.'?


As written they would both affect each other with the exception that distract doesn't work because the swarm can't affect the whole troop.


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Rikkan wrote:
IIRC swarms can't share the same space, seem to recall James Jacobs saying something about it. (a more specific post than this one)

I've only seen posts on the subject to prevent multiple swarms on the same side from stacking to make Vashta Nerada-type death swarms. I can't see why there's be a problem with swarms attacking each other.

Grand Lodge

Rikkan wrote:
IIRC swarms can't share the same space, seem to recall James Jacobs saying something about it. (a more specific post than this one)

First, that's the only post by him on the subject that I'm aware of. Second, if his post was correct than swarms couldn't share space to damage creatures and tiny and smaller creatures without special reach couldn't ever attack things in melee.


Quote:
Swarm Subtype: A swarm is a collection of Fine, Diminutive, or Tiny creatures that acts as a single creature. A swarm has the characteristics of its type, except as noted here. A swarm has a single pool of Hit Dice and hit points, a single initiative modifier, a single speed, and a single Armor Class. A swarm makes saving throws as a single creature. A single swarm occupies a square (if it is made up of nonflying creatures) or a cube (of flying creatures) 10 feet on a side, but its reach is 0 feet, like its component creatures. In order to attack, it moves into an opponent's space, which provokes an attack of opportunity. It can occupy the same space as a creature of any size, since it crawls all over its prey. A swarm can move through squares occupied by enemies and vice versa without impediment, although the swarm provokes an attack of opportunity if it does so. A swarm can move through cracks or holes large enough for its component creatures.

I could see reading that as because a swarm is a collection of creatures, 2 swarms can't share the same square.


Tarantula wrote:
It can occupy the same space as a creature of any size, since it crawls all over its prey. A swarm can move through squares occupied by enemies and vice versa without impediment, although the swarm provokes an attack of opportunity if it does so. A swarm can move through cracks or holes large enough for its component creatures.
I could see reading that as because a swarm is a collection of creatures, 2 swarms can't share the same square.

Except we are talking two separate swarms...which are each technically their own separate creatures....

So by my reading, the two swarms act as two distinct creatures of "any size", and can move through each others occupied space.

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