feat advice for my brawler


Advice


was wanting advice on feats for my brawler hes no archetype im going to take grapple and trip feat chains but dont know what else to take for maneuvers know pummeling strike feats maybe help with some to make him more mobile would be awesome and is there a way to add throwin weapon attack to his repotire when needed help anr opinions would great I ALSO WANT HIM TO USE UNARMED ATTACKS


For throwing weapons, wushu darts and wooden stakes are the ones you are proficient with by default that can be thrown in the brawler's flurry.

Not entirely sure how often it would come up after you grab pummeling charge (seems like it would mostly be fliers), but it is an option. Wooden stakes are free actually.

Pummeling style and charge are extremely powerful, solving a lot of problems with DR while giving you pounce basically. It is highly recommended.

Contributor

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Are you asking for feats to take normally, or for feats to swap into with martial flexibility?

Typically, you're going to want to use your core feats to build your basic fighting style and your martial flexibility for more situational affairs. For example, if you want to focus on thrown weapons, your best bet (as lemeres mentions) is to specialize in using wooden stakes. Quick Draw is going to be very important to your build, as it'll allow you to draw your stake(s) quick enough to make a full attack with them. Likewise, you'll probably want to invest in a blinkback belt, which will teleport any stake that you throw back into your belt for further use. This, of course, depends on how much you want to focus on thrown weapons.

Picking up Combat Expertise is a worthwhile investment. Not because Combat Expertise itself is good, but it allows you to use martial versatility to pick up just about any Improved combat maneuver feat that you want without needing to invest any additional feats into that combat maneuver. For example, you can take Combat Expertise and whenever you decide that you want to trip, you can use martial flexibility to gain Improved Trip temporarily. Next time, you could take Improved Disarm instead, or Improved Dirty Tricks.


Iron Brush is also a viable thrown weapon.

I recommend you check my guide too! <3


Secret Wizard wrote:

Iron Brush is also a viable thrown weapon.

I recommend you check my guide too! <3

Oh, you are right, I had skipped over that one because... brush...

The wooden stakes at least got a pass because of the Blade movies. Side note: the description of stakes mentions how iron stakes are just the same thing. So that means metal is fine, and you can grab silver/mithral then. Because you want something that actually works against vampires.


Think of Versatility as you'er casting feats instead of spells.
You need your feat components.

Sand for sleep....combat expertise for...trip this round...steal the next.

Same with Power Attack, dodge, weapon focus,....and the list continues.


Iron Brush is the best ranged weapon because it has the same stats as the Wushu Dart but it also has a Sleight of Hand bonus.


just want to use stakes when im not in range to use unarmed

Grand Lodge

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Here is a human brawler build I've been sketching out. It focuses on unarmed damage and grappling. I noticed you want trip. Its not in my core feats but still accessible through martial flexibility. You can have trip as your 2nd maneuver training...focus on grapple. Trip does poorly IMO because it is extremely difficult to do. If the enemy flies, has more than 2 legs, or has no legs you can not trip them easily. This is why I didnt waste feats on it.

Human 20 point buy
Str 17 (15+2), dex 14, con 15, int 10, wis 14, cha 7
Traits: martial artist (+1 all unarmed damage), accelerated drinker

Feats and class progression:
1HD Brawler 1- weapon focus- unarmed strike, power attack
2HD brawler 2- pummeling style
3 HD brawler 2/master of many styles monk 1- pummeling charge, combat reflexes
4 HD Brawler 2/ MoMS monk 2- Dragon style, (+1 str)
5HD Brawler 3/ monk 2- Dragon Ferocity
6HD Brawler 4/monk 2-
7HD Brawler 5/ monk 2- Improved grapple, combat expertise
8HD Brawler 6/ monk 2- (+1 con)
9HD Brawler 7/ monk 2- Iron Will
10HD Brawler 8/ monk 2- Greater Grapple
11HD Brawler 9/ monk 2- weapon specialization- unarmed strike
12 HD Brawler 10/ monk 2- (+1 str)

By dipping monk you gain several things...evasion being a huge thing. Monk saves for 2 levels is +3 to all 3 saves. You also get both stunning fist and knock out. Master of many styles lets you do dragon style+pummeling styles. With combat reflexes you could martial flexibility into snake style line....combat expertise+power attack allows Martial flexibility to grab ANY combat maneuver on the fly.

I recommend these items:
wayfinder+dusty rose prism (+2 to all CMB AND CMD)
jingasa of the fortunate soldier
belt of physical perfection +2
Holy Amulet of Mighty fist
Swarm bane clasp
Headband of wisdom +2
potions of enlarge person, barkskin, heroism, resist energy 10, and shield


Sounds like a fun build. Nice job.

Grand Lodge

Thanks I have been searching the Forums, reading guides, and theory crafting it for a few weeks. I plan to play it for the Legacy of Fire or Skulls and Shackles AP which ever comes first for my group. SO 1 trait will be different but other then that I believe I have it sketched out well enough.

Sovereign Court

If you're going to do much tripping & are going unarmed - you should grab Vicious Stomp & Combat Reflexes. Once you grab Greater Trip, you'll get two AOOs every time you trip something.

Also of note - with the brawler ability to grab combat feats for particular situations, once you get up to being able to grab three, you can grab Spring Attack to combo with your double AOO. At that point, Spring Attack becomes pretty mean. (depending in large part upon the target)

Of note - while opinions may vary widely - I'd avoid spending a feat on Power Attack if you're going to be using manuvers most of the time. Power Attack isn't all that great without the 3:1 ratio of using a two-handed weapon anyway.


i like the spring attack grapple combo im def gonna that. What can use the AOOs for if i dnt have sneak attack?

Sovereign Court

swifthunter420 wrote:
i like the spring attack grapple combo im def gonna that. What can use the AOOs for if i dnt have sneak attack?

I'm assuming you mean spring attack / trip combo.

And I'm not sure what you mean AOOs & sneak attack. They're pretty much unrelated.


attacks of opportunity arent like sneak attack?


swifthunter420 wrote:
attacks of opportunity arent like sneak attack?
CRB wrote:

Attack of Opportunity

Sometimes a combatant in a melee lets her guard down or takes a reckless action. In this case, combatants near her can take advantage of her lapse in defense to attack her for free. These free attacks are called attacks of opportunity. See the Attacks of Opportunity diagram for an example of how they work.

Basically, it is a free pot shot that you get when the other guy is distracted with things like going reading, doing the song and dance involved with spells, picking a penny off the ground, rummaging through their backback, or try to ignore and walk right next to the guy using a sword bigger than he is.

You can look at the basic list of actions found in the table in this link. The table tells you if the action normally leaves someone open to attacks. Of course, feats and abilities can change whether a certain action draw an AoO or not.

The attack you make with an AoO is at full BAB (might be modified with power attack from your last turn though). You can normally only make one AoO per round, although combat reflexes adds your dex modifier to that number.

Overall, AoOs are not like sneak attacks, and you do not need sneak attack in order to make AoOs. Anyone can make them, and you just need to see the other guy with his pants down (taking your pants off in combat definitely draws an AoO... and usually draws one from both friend and foe...hehe..)


Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:


Human 20 point buy
Str 17 (15+2), dex 14, con 15, int 10, wis 14, cha 7
Traits: martial artist (+1 all unarmed damage), accelerated drinker

Feats and class progression:
1HD Brawler 1- weapon focus- unarmed strike, power attack
2HD brawler 2- pummeling style
3 HD brawler 2/master of many styles monk 1- pummeling charge, combat reflexes
4 HD Brawler 2/ MoMS monk 2- Dragon style, (+1 str)
5HD Brawler 3/ monk 2- Dragon Ferocity
6HD Brawler 4/monk 2-
7HD Brawler 5/ monk 2- Improved grapple, combat expertise
8HD Brawler 6/ monk 2- (+1 con)
9HD Brawler 7/ monk 2- Iron Will
10HD Brawler 8/ monk 2- Greater Grapple
11HD Brawler 9/ monk 2- weapon specialization- unarmed strike
12 HD Brawler 10/ monk 2- (+1 str)

Your build plan here is flawed, Pummeling style requires BAB+6, and P.Charge needs BAB+12. Also Combat Expertise requires Int 13


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Rahim Kassam-Adams wrote:
Your build plan here is flawed, Pummeling style requires BAB+6, and P.Charge needs BAB+12. Also Combat Expertise requires Int 13

..did you read either the pummeling feats or the brawler class? There are specific exemptions to all of those.

The pummeling feats let you qualify faster if you are monk or brawler (2 and 8). And brawler just plain ignores the combat expertise prereq.

Grand Lodge

The master of many styles can overlook the style feat pre-reqs.

Brawler's Cunning (Ex): If the brawler's Intelligence score is less than 13, it counts as 13 for the purpose of meeting the prerequisites of combat feats.

My build is not Flawed. Its all legal. Tho I posted it a few months ago when Pummeling Charge was banned in PFS. Apparently Its back off the ban list but only works w/ Unarmed strikes.


Be a dwarf - spell shatter, strong soul, and dwarf only combat feat access.

Disruptive, Spell Breaker and Spell Shatter are the 3 most game changing and shocking feats to pull out with martial flexibility.


swifthunter420 wrote:
was wanting advice on feats for my brawler hes no archetype im going to take grapple and trip feat chains but dont know what else to take for maneuvers know pummeling strike feats maybe help with some to make him more mobile would be awesome and is there a way to add throwin weapon attack to his repotire when needed help anr opinions would great I ALSO WANT HIM TO USE UNARMED ATTACKS

I should say first that I don't know a lot about Brawlers, but I do know a lot about Grapple and Trip builds. My first thoughts are not sanguine about combining Grappling and Tripping, but let's brainstorm.

The mainsteam way to develop grappling is via a Tetori build. A level 9 Tetori can negate Freedom of Movement, but if you do that, you won't be able to do those other cool things you want to do. Grappling will be your only trick. You can become a very powerful grappler though if you only take Greater Grapple and a 2 level dip into Cavalier, Order of the Penitent. The Order Ability is Expert Captor, which allows you to Tie Up a Grappled, not Pinned! opponent, and you don't take the -10 to do it, either. That means if you begin the round adjacent to your opponent, you can Initiate a Grapple as a Standard Action and then Tie him Up as a Move Action: devastating! Take 4 levels in Alchemist. Take the Tentacle and Crab Tumor Familiar discoveries. The Tentacle will give you a +4 on your Grapple Checks, and a Crab Familiar gives you a +2. Alchemal Bombs are decent throwing weapons. Mutagens are awesome. There are other things you can do to pump up your Grapple Mod A LOT. When you go the route of prosecuting a grapple, this is definitely my recommendation: your goal is not to damage your opponent, but to Tie Up. If inflicting damage is your goal, there are better ways. If destroying your opponent in 1 round is your goal, there aren't better ways.

The Prone Condition is a nice one to inflict on others. They get a -4 to attack and a -4 to AC, they can't either stand up or withdraw without taking attack of opportunities from you. With Fury's Fall, you can apply both your ST and DEX mods to your trip bonus. With Greater Trip, you get an Attack of Opportunity as you Trip them. With Vicious Stomp, you get and attack of opportunity as they go down, and yes, VS and GT stack!

As I write, though, I don't recommend Vicious Stomp for this character. The AoO from Vicious Stomp has to be an unarmed strike. And if you are close enough for an unarmed strike, then maybe you should be grappling instead of tripping. But a lot of Trip Weapons are reach weapons. The way I'm starting to see a build like what you describe is one that covers the gamut of ranges. When you are up close and personal, you Grapple. When you are at Reach distances, you use your glaive, ranseur, whip, or something and Trip. When your enemy is farther away, you throw spears or pull out your Adaptive Composite Longbow. So take Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, and Greater Trip, of course. Take Fury's Fall.

The thing I really hate about Tripping is that you can't trip anyone who is 2 or more sizes bigger than you, but there are 2 ways around that. The Punishing Kick Feat works a little like Stunning Fist except that instead of making your opponent Stunned, you make them Prone. It works on any size creature, but they get a saving throw. The other is a Teamwork Feat called the Harder they Fall. An Ally has to Aid Another you, but then you can Trip creatures regardless of size. I was recommending a Cavalier dip, anyway. 1 level in Cavalier, and you get a bonus Teamwork Feat, and the Tactician Ability which lets you gift your Teamwork Feat to all allies within 30'.


Ah, I missed that Combat Expertise bit in the Brawler class. I guess I misread the Pummeling feats pre-reqs when I looked at them; I didn't realize the way it was written meant BAB+X -or- Monk/Brawler Lvl.Y, as opposed to BAB -and- Class lvl.

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