Goblin Squad Member
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Oh gosh, the elves in Pathfinder Online are really not very good looking. They have tiny little eyes, chubby cheeks, and no chin... and they stand with their chest way out and their shoulders way back. They just look very wrong. I hope they improve them before the game comes out. I'm not sure if I can play an ugly elf... I'm afraid I like pretty elves. I might have to switch my character concept to a gnome instead.
Boojum the brown bunny
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Yeah, sadly, only ugly races are available for now, and that seems unlikely to change in the future—you know how Paizo can be about "monstrous" species.
CEO
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We are working on making the elf faces "better." I put that in quotes, since everybody's idea of what is pretty and what isn't is very subjective. But the Paizo team approved some new elf faces the other day and I expect they will be implemented soonish.
-Lisa
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Goblin Squad Member
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Well, the female Thighs are pretty bad. Their hips are fairly incredibly wide as well. I've always pictured elves as more slender than humans, so the female elf hips and thighs being bigger than a humans causes me a bit of trouble.
The problem I see with the face is that the mesh has chubby cheeks and no chin. When you look in 3/4 view you can see he's got no chin.. and as you rotate around the elf character his cheeks are wide and round instead of sunken like they are in the Pathfinder Artwork.
Well, I really, really hope they get it fixed. :D
Boojum the brown bunny
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Goblin Squad Member
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Also, is it me or are the human proportions off? Their shoulder to hip line is long while their hipline to feet seems short. Any word on if they are going to let us have sliders to adust the body proportions, like leg length and shoulder width and the like?
Boojum the brown bunny
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Goblin Squad Member
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Last elf I made was in Alpha 7/8. At that time, I noticed that the appearance on the character creation screen did not match the final appearance in game. At creation, well, none of the adjectives i would use to describe my toon would be complimentary, but in game it was better, the face appeared thinner to me and finer featured. Is there still a discrepancy in how models render in game vs. character creation screen? Are you basing your comments on in game or in creation screen?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I can't count the number of times I've tried to spin around my toon in the creation or the login screen and felt a bit disoriented when camera didn't move. Not that I've ever chosen a toon based only on the appearance from the rear, but gotta check that all my assets in place...
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm referring to the looks in the game, not the looks in the creation software. After you create your character, circle around it's head in the game to view it from all sides.. Remember, that is how OTHER people will see you. This resulting shape is based on the mesh and any deformers that are applied. If the mesh has outwordly rounded cheeks, then your character will.. and your face will not be slim.
Also, I was rather suprised at how lantern jawed the female elves are. I always pictured them as having heart shaped faces with narrow chins. But that could just be me.
Boojum the brown bunny
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Goblin Squad Member
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I can't count the number of times I've tried to spin around my toon in the creation or the login screen and felt a bit disoriented when camera didn't move. Not that I've ever chosen a toon based only on the appearance from the rear, but gotta check that all my assets in place...
Actually, I quite often choose what my toons look like from the rear, after all if you are going to be staring at a rear end for most of the game, at least make sure it looks nice ;)
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Goblin Squad Member
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Ok, so here are two examples of what I'm talking about as to the size of the eyes, the shape of the face, and on the girl elves, the thighs.
So the male elf. My main objection is the roundness of the face. The chipmunk cheeks and no chin. I also dislike the itty bitty eyes, but that could just be because of the facial shape.
On the female elf, the square jaw seems human and the large thighs seem out of place.
Female Elf
At any rate, I hope they make the elves prettier. I know these things are all in alpha state and all due to change.. so I hope those changes are included. Sadly, I don't get to post to the alpha forums, just to here.
Boojum the brown bunny
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Goblin Squad Member
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On the female elf, the square jaw seems human and the large thighs seem out of place.
http://www.evillair.org/pictures/PathfinderElfGirl.pngAt any rate, I hope they make the elves prettier. I know these things are all in alpha state and all due to change.. so I hope those changes are included. Sadly, I don't get to post to the alpha forums, just to here.
Boojum the brown bunny
The female elf heads look like humans from the front, from the side you get the almond/fey shape of the heads. I think all 3 female elf heads are fantastic. Best elf heads I've seen in any game anywhere.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think that hitting the exact bottom of the uncanny valley with elves, and the top of the "stylized" side for humans, is exactly the desired end state.
I agree. Pathfinder elves have an otherworldly look, with good reason.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I've pictured pathfinder elves more like Vulcans, and the Half-Elves are more like the Tolken elves everyone is accustomed to.
Oh, I agree that Pathfinder Elves are not like most other elves in other games.. particularly the males. To me, this is a good thing. I like that they are different. In other games the male elves tend to be a bit androgynous. But the elves in Pathfinder Online don't really look like Pathfinder elves to me either. The eyes are more crescent than almond shaped. The chin is round and soft instead of square and strong.. and far to close to the lower lip. The face is round rather than elongated.
Also, Pathfinder Elves seem to have no bodyfat.. so I am hoping that they texture the tiny face muscles into the models.
I would LOVE it if they made the male and female elf proportions and shapes closer to the Pathfinder Elves. It's just that, right now, they don't seem to resemble either.
Boojum the brown bunny
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Goblin Squad Member
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I've always pictured elves as more slender than humans, so the female elf hips and thighs being bigger than a humans causes me a bit of trouble.
I tend to conceptualize "elves" as more "expressive" than humans based on a variety of reasons and in particular their form -> function from being slender and communicating with many subtleties and greater emotional depth.
This takes the form of being more slender and longer limbed in connection to communicating a wider visual display via posture and poise of pose and gesture along with a more musical (Farsi?!) language to go with a more wider range of facial expressions and larger eyes proportionately (more whites (that bit whatever it's name is) in the eye) such a Natasha McElhone's wonderfully large and expressive eyes: Like deep, still pools. If you think of Italians they are highly gesticulating humans for example, but imagine Italians who are several hundred years old but maybe look a healthy 50 gesticulating and slender (some animals communicate via pose much more; dolphins use this a lot too to vary their grammar of clicks iirc).
You compare to dwarves who are at the other extreme!
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Goblin Squad Member
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Actually, I suspect that elf eyes are built differently than human eyes. A lot of the elves in Pathfinder art appear to have no visible sclera (the white part). Their eyes look like giant irises, sometimes with discernable pupils, sometimes without.
Relevant thread (unfortunately, with no Paizo input).
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Goblin Squad Member
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Actually, I suspect that elf eyes are built differently than human eyes. A lot of the elves in Pathfinder art appear to have no visible sclera (the white part). Their eyes look like giant irises, sometimes with discernable pupils, sometimes without.
Relevant thread (unfortunately, with no Paizo input).
oohh ... like kittens
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CEO
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And YAY! Thanks for the update, Lisa! I appreciate it. I think part of my problem is with the proportion of eyes to face. I look forward to seeing the changes and how they look!
If you like Merisiel, our iconic Rogue and pretty much our iconic elf, then you should be happy.
-Lisa
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Goblin Squad Member
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If you like Merisiel, our iconic Rogue and pretty much our iconic elf, then you should be happy.-Lisa
Oooh, sharp girl, that...
Hmmm mabby an elf as secondary character...
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Goblin Squad Member
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Actually, I suspect that elf eyes are built differently than human eyes. A lot of the elves in Pathfinder art appear to have no visible sclera (the white part). Their eyes look like giant irises, sometimes with discernable pupils, sometimes without.
Relevant thread (unfortunately, with no Paizo input).
I guess that may be true to try to make them look more alien? But atst in humans more white means more reading of emotions iirc I read somewhere (all a dangerous thing!)? So if I was building Elves I'd increase the whites, but just to be commenting on the design, not dictating. I suppose both would have a desired differentiation effect depending on which is deemed more necessary for them.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Sounds like the Voltari out of twilight :PIf you think of Italians they are highly gesticulating humans for example, but imagine Italians who are several hundred years old but maybe look a healthy 50 gesticulating and slender ...
Then and again, maybe don't imagine Italians at all, perhaps something closer to some of the Dravidian dances of Southern India... /wipes brow
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Goblin Squad Member
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I would agree with the OP. The Dwarves, on the other hand, have indeed turned out to be quite beautiful. (Just like my dear ol' father always told me!)
I had no intentions of playing a dwarf but I will as a DT because the models rock so hard.
To be honest, graphically, I expect PFO will always be very character centric with some cool monsters here and there and a big variety of gear skins but very sparse on the environment stuff. It's the character you get attached to, it's the character models that need the gloss.
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Goblin Squad Member
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And clothes with colourings and jewelry and and ..... *looks dreamily into the future, drooling"
Yup. If you look at the Pathfinder IP art you see very detailed characters with an almost absurd amount of work put into attire, garb, weapons. The settings really don't get anywhere near as much love.