Dex Monk Ranged Options

[TheFlyingPhoton]

I have a Halfling Monk (Underfoot Adept) in PFS with 10 Strength. It's been working out very well in melee, but I'm starting to worry about flying opponents/situations where using ranged weapons would be much better tactically (as it's come up twice for the character so far).
I've had a sling since level 1 (since it's free), but I'm starting to get past the point where a 1d3+0 small sling is useful/reasonable.
I was looking at flurrying 1-damage shuriken, since I'm a level or two away from doing max sling damage if I don't miss.
Should I pick up a pack of some other thrown weapon to use one of a round (and more once I hit BAB+6) with +0 Strength bonus, or just pick up a crossbow and not worry it?

[Undone]

What is retrain to the zen archer archetype for 200 bob?

Thrown weapons don't work because you can't enhance them very well. Without a magic weapon you can't hit incorporeal. As you level up thrown weapons become progressively worse.

[TheFlyingPhoton]

So I guess my next question is would anyone like to contribute anything useful?

[Undone]

Option B is 2PP for a potion of fly.

[Brad McDowell]

Qinggong for Scorching Ray?

[RumpinRufus]

What level are you now?

Alchemist's fire is reasonably effective, or tanglefoot bags. Possibly combined with a readied action if they are too far away when your turn comes around.

[blahpers]

Poison the shuriken, at least. But you'll need more than one damage.

I forget--do agile weapons still get Dex to damage when thrown?

[graystone]

Rope dart, Shuriken and Wushu dart are all monk weapons. Rope dart Somehow has a 20' range increment (100' total range) with a 12' rope that retrieves the weapon.

[TheFlyingPhoton]

I just hit level 4 with the character.

The Qinggong and Zen Archer archetypes are both incompatible with Underfoot Adept.

The Agile weapon property specifies melee weapons that can utilize Weapon Finesse, and that you get Dex to damage when using the WF feat. Throwing a melee weapon doesn't utilize WF, as far as I know.
Also, a +2 enhancement seems kind of expensive for what is essentially going to be his backup weapon.

The Rope dart and Wushu Dart both look interesting. Monks are not proficient with those, though, are they (but can still flurry)?

I don't know very much about poison usage. I'll have to look more into it. I know PFS has some very specific rules regarding it, though.

Alchemical Items might be a very good idea here. I know there's a lot of interesting options there. I'll be digging through those lists again.

I recently played two PFS scenarios where my ranged issues needed to be addressed. In one, we fought three air elementals that were making use of flyby attack (readied actions took care of the issue). The other was a scenario that utilized a lot of unusual rules and combat situations. We came across a group of enemies that basically acted like a swarm of medium creatures (and had both acid and fire resistance). I was level 3 playing up to subtier 6-7, so I didn't want to get up into melee with it, so I ended up having to sling it for 1d3 every round.

[graystone]

TheFlyingPhoton wrote:

The Rope dart and Wushu Dart both look interesting. Monks are not proficient with those, though, are they (but can still flurry)?

Yes, you'd have to get proficiency from something to not take the -4 non-proficiency penalty, but since they are monk weapons you can flurry with them.

[Avoron]

I'm almost completely sure that agile weapons add their dexterity to damage when thrown RAW. There are only two requirements for the agile weapon ability:

1. The ability is placed on a melee weapon that is usable with the Weapon Finesse feat. This would include melee weapons that can also be thrown, because they are usable with the Weapon Finesse feat.

2. The wielder has the Weapon Finesse feat.

There is no rule about whether the wielder is capable of using the Weapon Finesse feat with that attack, or even with that weapon. RAW, a Huge agile handaxe can be used by a medium character who has Weapon Finesse as a two-handed weapon, and the character would add their dexterity bonus on damage rolls but their strength bonus on attack roles.

Similarly, an agile dagger could be thrown and still add the character's dexterity bonus to damage rolls.

[Imbicatus]

Obsidian shuriken combined with the splintering weapon feat are nice.

[graystone]

Avoron wrote:

I'm almost completely sure that agile weapons add their dexterity to damage when thrown RAW. There are only two requirements for the agile weapon ability:

1. The ability is placed on a melee weapon that is usable with the Weapon Finesse feat. This would include melee weapons that can also be thrown, because they are usable with the Weapon Finesse feat.

2. The wielder has the Weapon Finesse feat.

There is no rule about whether the wielder is capable of using the Weapon Finesse feat with that attack, or even with that weapon. RAW, a Huge agile handaxe can be used by a medium character who has Weapon Finesse as a two-handed weapon, and the character would add their dexterity bonus on damage rolls but their strength bonus on attack roles.

Similarly, an agile dagger could be thrown and still add the character's dexterity bonus to damage rolls.

About the only weapon that it matters for is the Wushu Dart. the other ranged monk weapons aren't melee weapons.

[Brother Fen]

If you get the throw anything monk feat, you can throw whatever is near you. Go with that or the shurikens with flurry.

My monk uses throw anything in this fashion. There's usually something nearby to throw. Or I'll just throw my own weapons and pick them up later. Of course you don't want to throw anything useful off a cliff. . .

[graystone]

That's a 3.5 feat from the sword and fist book. It isn't a legal Pathfinder feat so it's a no go for PFS. In addition, you'd still have to throw monk weapons to use it in a flurry.

[blahpers]

A shame this is for PFS. A blinkback belt and a +1 agile throwing cestus would be amusing. Hundred-hand slap? Throwing the gauntlet? Rocket punch!

[Brad McDowell]

How is Qinggong not compatible? Underfoot adept still has a ki pool, correct? It still has slow fall to replace for Scorching Ray?

Maybe not compatible at level 4, but should be compatible at level 5.

[Imbicatus]

Qinggong is compatible with all a other Monk archetypes.

BTW, Nice to see you Jeff, I miss the Fashion Square games.

[Secret Wizard]

Harrow Warden Monk can Flurry Starknives.

[Imbicatus]

Secret Wizard wrote:

Harrow Warden Monk can Flurry Starknives.

Yes, but you still need quick draw to throw multiple starknives, even with flurry.

[TheFlyingPhoton]

I didn't realize the Qinggong replacements were all optional (UA also swaps high jump out). So that's definitely an option, especially since I haven't played my first game at level 4 yet.

Upon rereading it, Agile would totally work. Buying enough to flurry, however, could get expensive. A single +1 Agile Dagger might be the way to go there (or a dip into fighter to get proficiency with a better thrown weapon along with an extra feat, which this build badly needs anyways).

Harrow Warden and Underfoot Adept both give up Stunning Fist.

Brother Fen wrote:

If you get the throw anything monk feat, you can throw whatever is near you. Go with that or the shurikens with flurry.

My monk uses throw anything in this fashion. There's usually something nearby to throw. Or I'll just throw my own weapons and pick them up later. Of course you don't want to throw anything useful off a cliff. . .

graystone wrote:

That's a 3.5 feat from the sword and fist book. It isn't a legal Pathfinder feat so it's a no go for PFS. In addition, you'd still have to throw monk weapons to use it in a flurry.

Is BF talking about this?

[Imbicatus]

TheFlyingPhoton wrote:

Is BF talking about this?

I think so. I don't think improvised weapons are the answer unless your are also a monk of the empty hand, and I'm pretty sure it doesn't stack with underfoot adept.

You can also look into the alchemical ammunition in the alchemy manual.

Anything that says ammunition in the descriptor on that table can be used with shuriken instead of arrows.

[graystone]

Nope! As I said, it was from a 3.0 book.

Throw Anything ( Sword and Fist: A Guidebook to Monks and Fighters, p. 9)

Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +2, Dex 15+,

Benefit: You can throw any weapon you can use, regardless of whether it is intended to be used as a ranged weapon. The range increment of weapons used in conjunction with this feat is 10 feet.

[Charon's Little Helper]

Put me down as another vote for Quinggong! Every monk ever should have Quinggong - it was a stealth buff for the monk class.

The first power that most people pick up is barkskin. (It's what allows a monk's AC to keep up when they can't get an amulet of natural armor.)

Scorching Ray is a pretty decent 2nd choice. You won't get as much out of it as a drunk monk, who's basically a switch-hitter with the ability to lay down scorching rays nearly every round, but it's still a handy option.

As an underfoot adept though, you might consider picking up true strike. Assuming that you're going with the standard trip build (improved/greater trip & vicious stomp), true striking would basically guarantee those two extra attacks against anyone that is trippable.

[Petty Alchemy]

blahpers wrote:

A shame this is for PFS. A blinkback belt and a +1 agile throwing cestus would be amusing. Hundred-hand slap? Throwing the gauntlet? Rocket punch!

Or you could take a page from the Dai Li with this qinggong power