The following are video documentation of:
10 Hours of Walking in NYC as a Man
10 Hours of Walking in NYC as a Woman
conclusion: don't go to NYC
Yeah that is high on my list of places im glad i have no reason to even go near
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I want to see 10 hours walking around nyc as a zombie.
They already sound like a shambling horde without human emotion so not a stretch
I could have used that planquin.
And in New Zealand as a woman.I wonder if that difference has anything to do with NYC having nearly twice the population of New Zealand. Not twice the population of the Auckland, the city they tried it in, but of the whole country.
I'd actually like to think it's a matter of culture and deliberate lack of tolerance for the nastier behavior, but I'm not so sure.
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It is 100% a matter of culture -- that's the point. In Tokyo, whose
population is 13 million compared to NYC's 8.5 million, we would see
similar results like Auckland. Culture.
And in New Zealand as a woman.I wonder if that difference has anything to do with NYC having nearly twice the population of New Zealand. Not twice the population of the Auckland, the city they tried it in, but of the whole country.
I'd actually like to think it's a matter of culture and deliberate lack of tolerance for the nastier behavior, but I'm not so sure.
.
It is 100% a matter of culture -- that's the point. In Tokyo, whose
population is 13 million compared to NYC's 8.5 million, we would see
similar results like Auckland. Culture.
Plus they have vending machines everywhere not getting vandalized.
Apparently there are a LOT of people in NYC that have nothing to do but stand on the sidewalk. Can you imagine what that video would be like if those people actually had something to do?
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And in New Zealand as a woman.I wonder if that difference has anything to do with NYC having nearly twice the population of New Zealand. Not twice the population of the Auckland, the city they tried it in, but of the whole country.
I'd actually like to think it's a matter of culture and deliberate lack of tolerance for the nastier behavior, but I'm not so sure.
.
It is 100% a matter of culture -- that's the point. In Tokyo, whose
population is 13 million compared to NYC's 8.5 million, we would see
similar results like Auckland. Culture.
It was interesting to see that the gentleman that was interested in the woman in New Zealand actually went up and spoke with her rather than screeching something "friendly" from across the way.
Yes, very cultured in Japan.And in New Zealand as a woman.I wonder if that difference has anything to do with NYC having nearly twice the population of New Zealand. Not twice the population of the Auckland, the city they tried it in, but of the whole country.
I'd actually like to think it's a matter of culture and deliberate lack of tolerance for the nastier behavior, but I'm not so sure.
.
It is 100% a matter of culture -- that's the point. In Tokyo, whose
population is 13 million compared to NYC's 8.5 million, we would see
similar results like Auckland. Culture.
Yeah...having lived in Japan and New Zealand, those are not very comparable places. I still remember heading to a subway and seeing a guy out in front of it with his hands down his pants and completely going to town on himself in front of the crowd of people entering and leaving. I encountered several similar messed up situations while living there that I won't get into.
Similarly, I have a good friend who was jogging down a rural road in Japan and had a man drive up and drop pants right in front of her (she took off in the opposite direction).
I can't say I had any of those experiences in New Zealand, nor do my American friends have any sort of similar experiences to share from that country.
A lot of people in that women in NYC video just greeted her politely and a few made rather polite compliments. Sure I know they wouldn't do either of those things if she were less attractive or less attractively dressed, or a man, but I can't say I would call that harassment by any stretch.
Of course the "dayum girl"s or the guys just following her around are a different matter. But then she didn't exactly help the situation by completely ignoring them, and not just saying "not interested", or "would you please stop following me". As any normal person would.
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It was interesting to see that the gentleman that was interested in the woman in New Zealand actually went up and spoke with her rather than screeching something "friendly" from across the way.
This too is considered harassment by some.
It was interesting to see that the gentleman that was interested in the woman in New Zealand actually went up and spoke with her rather than screeching something "friendly" from across the way.This too is considered harassment by some.
Oh no doubt. But it illustrates how one might go about meeting these untouchable creatures in some other way than shouting greetings in the hopes of being noticed. Give the other thread on this, there seemed to be some concern that some men just couldn't meet women in any other way.
Yes, very cultured in Japan.And in New Zealand as a woman.I wonder if that difference has anything to do with NYC having nearly twice the population of New Zealand. Not twice the population of the Auckland, the city they tried it in, but of the whole country.
I'd actually like to think it's a matter of culture and deliberate lack of tolerance for the nastier behavior, but I'm not so sure.
.
It is 100% a matter of culture -- that's the point. In Tokyo, whose
population is 13 million compared to NYC's 8.5 million, we would see
similar results like Auckland. Culture.And your point is? We all agree that New York has some problems.
You made the claim that Tokyo's culture would prevent street harassment. That's not really a big deal if it just moves onto the subway and gets nastier.
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1. This is my point: Cultural differences dominate social
interaction/exchanges between humans; and what we are observing in
these videos is not only a function of the single-variable "population
density". (as you first questioned ...)
Then this guy posted a link, with no explanation, about crime in
Tokyo. Yes, Tokyo has crime. So, I posted a link with no explanation
(because I can do that too -- we all can do it!)
2. My point is: you brought up population size, and questioned
if it is the single most important factor in the behaviors we are
observing in these videos. I said, I think it is 100% cultural.
Then this guy posted a link, with no explanation, about crime in
Tokyo. Yes, Tokyo has crime. So, I posted a link with no explanation
(because I can do that too -- we all can do it!)
3. This is my point: I don't think population size is the
dominant ingredient in "culture" as it applies to groups of humans
(like those grouped into modern cities.) So, as you questioned, is it
the relative size of the cities involved that fully explain the
behaviors we see in these videos? I say no, the behaviors are not
dominated by "population density" but by this thing, this concept, we
call "culture".
Then this guy posted a link, with no explanation, about crime in
Tokyo. Yes, Tokyo has crime. So, I posted a link with no explanation
(because I can do that too -- we all can do it!)
This is fun!
.
You made the claim that Tokyo's culture would prevent street harassment. That's not really a big deal if it just moves onto the subway and gets nastier.
1. Are we going to argue the causes of crime?
1a. Are we going to argue what the components are in the model(s) predicting crime rates around the world?
1b. Are we going to do Statistics (and Model prediction) between Crime and Culture?
1c. Are we going to do Regressions on published crime-data and other published city data, to build a link between Crime and Culture?
1d. Can you do Regression Analysis? Or, can you build a statistical model? If so, please build one and post, so we can get the ball rolling.
1e. I'll do a beginning one, if you want me to.
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Oh no doubt. But it illustrates how one might go about meeting these untouchable creatures in some other way than shouting greetings in the hopes of being noticed. Give the other thread on this, there seemed to be some concern that some men just couldn't meet women in any other way.It was interesting to see that the gentleman that was interested in the woman in New Zealand actually went up and spoke with her rather than screeching something "friendly" from across the way.This too is considered harassment by some.
I don't think that anyone was concerned that meeting them without the catcall couldn't occur. I believe the disagreement was that if you equated the more polite approach with the unacceptable practice of catcalling that there no acceptable approach on the street.
I shouldn't waste my time, but there is a correlation with population. I don't know whether it affected this particular example, but it definitely affects how people interact with each other on the street.
It wasn't just a random link about crime in Tokyo. It was a link about sexual harassment on the subways of Tokyo. I understand it's a bit of a stretch to think that women being groped on subways might have some relation to women having obscene things yelled at them on the streets, but I thought I could see the connection.
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That's what made the link so obtuse. It's a demonstration of the concept
called "Confirmation Bias". A random link would have been much more
powerful. And a sample of links would be even better, because then we
can bring the science of Statistics to the scene.
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And a sample of links would be even better, because then we
can bring the science of Statistics to the scene.
Statistics was never one of your strengths, was it?
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The link is not remotely obtuse.
The premise was larger population= a lot of harassment.
Your counter was that Tokyo has a large population and little harassment.
Their point that Tokyo actually has a lot of harassment, and its even more aggravated than catcalls.
Culture apparently changed the form of harassment, but not its existence
And a sample of links would be even better, because then we
can bring the science of Statistics to the scene.
Statistics was never one of your strengths, was it?
It took me years and years to learn Statistics, so I guess not.
(I even read story books -> story book .)
The link is not remotely obtuse.
The premise was larger population= a lot of harassment.
Your counter was that Tokyo has a large population and little harassment.
Their point that Tokyo actually has a lot of harassment, and its even more aggravated than catcalls.
Culture apparently changed the form of harassment, but not its existence
So, you're saying the link is right on target and supports your view.
I want to see 10 hours walking around nyc as a zombie.They already sound like a shambling horde without human emotion so not a stretch
Wasn't there already a video of guys dressing as zombies and chasing inner-city folks around, IIRC? I've never seen so many "tough guys" run screaming, it was hilarious. But I do think one of them pulled a gun on one of the "zombies" at one point, so the joke ended. The video was a while ago, but I think it's out there. It got alot of views if I recall.
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The Funny or Die video is annoyingly facetious.
An legitimate video of walking around as a white man would be far more telling... about why it's so scary to be a woman in the same situation.
Strangers are weird in the city, man. It doesn't break down neatly along racial lines, nor does the catcalling.
Anyway, that video's attempt to make light of the situation just annoys me... and I'm (evidently) pretty vocal about street harassment as a problem. The underlying message (that men and women are treated differently) is fine, but the delivery in this case is just crass and stupid. And not particularly funny.
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It is 100% a matter of culture -- that's the point. In Tokyo, whose population is 13 million compared to NYC's 8.5 million, we would see similar results like Auckland. Culture.
Tokyo, quite famously, has a street harassment culture all its own. I'm talking about groping on public transit, specifically. Not something I'm comfortable getting links for at work.
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NSFW Language.
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Jezebel remembers intersectionality: A Hollaback Response Video: Women of Color on Street Harassment
Meanwhile over at The Intercept: No, We Don’t Need a Law Against Catcalling
"Feminists of color have long criticized Hollaback’s tactics for having precisely this effect, of casting black and brown men as congenital predators, thus perpetuating their criminalization (in a tradition going back hundreds of years). In New York, where the fight over stop-and-frisk is not over, such activism currently coincides with policing that punishes youth of color for dancing on the subway or uses bullhorns to shoo black students out of affluent Park Slope. Discussing the Hollaback video on his radio show, Geraldo Rivera asked Rudy Giuliani if it was proof of the city’s moral decay, with both men agreeing that street harassment should be seen as analogous to graffiti — a policing priority under New York Police Commander Bill Bratton. In the meantime, not far from where I live, a group of 'concerned residents, business owners, artists and civic croups' called Gowanus United is closing ranks around gentrifying spaces in the name of public safety, raising alarms against a parole complex slated to open next year 'within a half-mile radius' of 'our streets, buses and subways.'"
Obligatory word drop: Liberal, feminist, yuppie, gentrifier.
Jezebel remembers intersectionality: A Hollaback Response Video: Women of Color on Street Harassment
Meanwhile over at The Intercept: No, We Don’t Need a Law Against Catcalling
"Feminists of color have long criticized Hollaback’s tactics for having precisely this effect, of casting black and brown men as congenital predators, thus perpetuating their criminalization (in a tradition going back hundreds of years). In New York, where the fight over stop-and-frisk is not over, such activism currently coincides with policing that punishes youth of color for dancing on the subway or uses bullhorns to shoo black students out of affluent Park Slope. Discussing the Hollaback video on his radio show, Geraldo Rivera asked Rudy Giuliani if it was proof of the city’s moral decay, with both men agreeing that street harassment should be seen as analogous to graffiti — a policing priority under New York Police Commander Bill Bratton. In the meantime, not far from where I live, a group of 'concerned residents, business owners, artists and civic croups' called Gowanus United is closing ranks around gentrifying spaces in the name of public safety, raising alarms against a parole complex slated to open next year 'within a half-mile radius' of 'our streets, buses and subways.'"
Obligatory word drop: Liberal, feminist, yuppie, gentrifier.
You forgot the trigger warning, thanks a lot.
I had a nice, long post with my perspective as a new yorker, but my phone ate it. Ah well.
I had a nice, long post with my perspective as a new yorker, but my phone ate it. Ah well.
D'oh! Stlarning technology!
Telling a passing woman you like her accouterments, quite loudly.
Telling a passing woman you like her accouterments, quite loudly.
That made me think of someone Catcalling "nice accoutrements" to someone. LOL crass and classy at the same time. IT'S A JOKE, NO I AM NOT FOR CATCALLING, hence the crass part.(figured I'd head the loons off at the pass)
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social experiment = Ten Hours of Princess Leia Walking in NYC
nation = zombie
You forgot the trigger warning, thanks a lot.Jezebel remembers intersectionality: A Hollaback Response Video: Women of Color on Street Harassment
Meanwhile over at The Intercept: No, We Don’t Need a Law Against Catcalling
"Feminists of color have long criticized Hollaback’s tactics for having precisely this effect, of casting black and brown men as congenital predators, thus perpetuating their criminalization (in a tradition going back hundreds of years). In New York, where the fight over stop-and-frisk is not over, such activism currently coincides with policing that punishes youth of color for dancing on the subway or uses bullhorns to shoo black students out of affluent Park Slope. Discussing the Hollaback video on his radio show, Geraldo Rivera asked Rudy Giuliani if it was proof of the city’s moral decay, with both men agreeing that street harassment should be seen as analogous to graffiti — a policing priority under New York Police Commander Bill Bratton. In the meantime, not far from where I live, a group of 'concerned residents, business owners, artists and civic croups' called Gowanus United is closing ranks around gentrifying spaces in the name of public safety, raising alarms against a parole complex slated to open next year 'within a half-mile radius' of 'our streets, buses and subways.'"
Obligatory word drop: Liberal, feminist, yuppie, gentrifier.
Trigger warning:
NSFW
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Snicker snicker
Now that a lot of that Hip-Hop is over 20 years old, I can't help but think of all the funny situations of parents boring their kids with stories of listing to The Chronic, smoking Blunts, and doing all the other stuff that seemed so "gangsta" way back when...
"In my day, you could buy a 40oz of Olde E for $1.69, and back then, it really was 40oz.!"
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I was riding to work the other day and this jam came on the "Throwback" station. It was awesome and it sounded real familiar but after two verses the dj went into Tribe and then Black Sheep and I couldn't remember who it was. Went to work and looked around to see who might know the song. Asked all the hip hop kids, tried describing it and singing the chorus and they were like "He was rapping about being poor over a Bob Marley sample? Oh, well, that narrows it down..."
Went home and was ashamed and embarrassed to discover it was Naughty by Nature. Was even more upset when I went to work the next day and none of the hip hop kids knew who Naughty by Nature were.
On-topic lyric/Trigger warning
Don't ever come to the ghetto
'Cuz you wouldn't understand the ghetto
So stay the f%#+ out of the ghetto!
Down with Hollaback yuppie gentrifiers!
