Kineticists and Full BAB


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I've seen in the kineticist rules thread that a lot of people are calling for full BAB. Not all, but quite a few. Not being as experienced as some on these threads, I'd like to focus this threads topic on whether commenters believe the kineticist should have full BAB or not.

If not, why not?

As was pointed out to me, full BAB means getting iterative attacks sooner, which would prove a little too strong... possibly. Now. Lets say that may be the case. That full BAB could prove too strong (not saying that it is mind you, this is just for thought). Then, as another question, how would you fix the accuracy without touching the Full BAB?

My current thought on that last question posed by myself, would be to possibly lower the amount of accepted burn needed to trigger the Feel the Burn ability. Maybe to 2 instead of 3. Allowing the bonuses to rise just a bit if one chooses to max it.

Mind you this isn't to debate about the burn mechanic. Most enemies in the games I've played have tried to kill me (i.e. lethal) over knocking me out, save for a handful. However my experience will be different than others and I've read quite a few that feel the non-lethal damage given through burn is harsh. Anyways, this isn't a burn thread unless it pertains to figuring out how best to increase the kineticists accuracy. Whether by Full BAB or other means. That is at least, if others care to share their opinions.

Side Question: Has anyone attempted a play test using a house ruled full BAB kineticist? If so. How did it go?


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Only the melee powers care about iterative attacks, so alter them to either do less damage per attack or remove iterative attacks from them. Then you have no issue with full BAB. Melee shouldn't be the high damage way to make up a energy blaster class.

If they MUST keep melee the way it is, physical blasts could use a pseudo-full BAB like flurry of blows.

Any solution that involves burn without reworking how burn works seems a bad idea IMO.

Dark Archive

With the Kineticist as is the only reason you would need to get more iterative attacks is if you took Kinetic blade. The regular Blasts are standard actions.


I don't think Full BAB is necessary. A combination of area talents, accuracy talents, and bonus feats would do the trick.


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I think the blast sshould work off of your "kineticist level. Since that represents your ability to control. So for blasts the bab = Kin lv. They still should have their bab for melee though, as it stands maybe? It seems like they can hit and do damage pretty good still.
It would make sense as well. Since the blast is in form of a weapon your having to control and combat with; it's a bit different than wielding the elements further ranged.


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I like the idea of keeping 3/4 BAB for Kinetic Blade and other weapons, but using the wording of "use your Kineticist level in place of your Base Attack Bonus for levels in this class when using Kinetic Blast."

That would boost accuracy, enable cooler feats earlier (usable only on the blast in that case, until the normal BAB caught up), and wouldn't break the game by enabling tons and tons of high-damage iteratives.


Yup. I think running the blasts (only) off class level, and possibly altering the wording to allow you to apply non iterative bonuses might be nifty.
though the bonuses is awhole different discussion really.

Scarab Sages

I am not convinced full BAB is required. What is currently lacking is the ability to gain enhancement bonuses to attack. I have submitted Kinetic Bracers as an item that would address not only some of the to-hit issues, but allows or DR to be overcome.


Artanthos wrote:
I am not convinced full BAB is required. What is currently lacking is the ability to gain enhancement bonuses to attack. I have submitted Kinetic Bracers as an item that would address not only some of the to-hit issues, but allows or DR to be overcome.

That item would help indeed. but I don't think it would solve all the issues. They aren't missing just slightly (for the non touch AC stuff). At least that is the impression I get from the various play tests.

With a magic item they would be hitting just like a rogue with a magic item --They regularly miss as well and it's one of the reasons people say they are just not good. Unlike say bards, alchemists, investigators and the like. Who gain their own way of to hit in the form of buffs.

Kin's do have Feel The Burn. but currently it's so taxing to get usage of that.

So really either they need pseudo full bab, or burn needs to be altered in a way that makes it more usuable (I still vote for 3+con free points of burn per day, then burns con directly there after) so you can have FTB without giving up a large percentage.

Feel the Burn is 1 to hit/damage. max of 1 per 3 levels. At lv 10, that is potentially +3 which would give bab+FTB of 10. for 3burn or 30hp. Which is pseudo full bab. Eventually it actually tends to list towards a little more than Full bab.
but, burn is a bit painful as it stands.

So really...I think pseudo full bab or free points of burn per day-before it starts chunking off stats or hp. are probably the best way to solve the to hit issues.

RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

The closest analogue to the kineticist that we have in the rules right now would be, in my mind, the gunslinger. She has a full BAB (though many would, perhaps rightly, argue that she doesn't really need it). I see granting the kineticist a full BAB as but one of many solutions that should be implemented to bring the class up to the right power level.

(That and more utility, of course.)


Artanthos wrote:
I am not convinced full BAB is required. What is currently lacking is the ability to gain enhancement bonuses to attack. I have submitted Kinetic Bracers as an item that would address not only some of the to-hit issues, but allows or DR to be overcome.

See I worry that the magic item path ends up getting into funky things that happened to the monk because he didn't get enhancement bonuses, and needed specific magic items the class was almost dependent on them.

Better to bake something into the class to compensate I think. Someone was comparing this class to a utility gunslinger, and I think that feels about right. BAB might be one way to go, or you could have them hit on a ranged touch attack like a gun (I know there is a power that does this but honestly I think this might be a better way to handle it).

Scarab Sages

Every class, other than kineticist, that functions as a martial benefits from and is expected to have magic weapons as a standard part of progression. How else is the fighter or rogue expected to bypass DR?

Even the monk has a choice between monk weapons or an Amulet of Mighty Fists.


In my experience, every class that doesn't have either Full BAB or real spellcasting simply tends to lag a bit behind the other classes. Maybe Pathfinder Unchained will fix the rogue and monk, but it hasn't happened yet. Until then, I am extremely wary of the Kineticist having anything less than Full BAB.


Yeah. It's weirdly between "nothing but akiller" and "combat utilty"
I'd want combat utility. More utility. but that's another thread.
For the combat part of combat utility. It'll need more than just 3/4th bab and access to magical weapon like item. As others pointed out, that doesn't/has not worked well for Rogue or Monk. A flurrying monk does ok as a full action but otherwise.. not so well in m yexperience.
most other 3/4s tend to have utility, and a buff.


There is no need for full BAB, the CR system as a whole is not tiered in a manner where touch AC scales well. What this means is that as the Keneticists levels there to hit increases but the enemies AC does not appreciably increase.

looking at an average 5th level Keneticist with a 16 dex (not outlandish for a 2 stat class) and their BAB as it stands garners a +6 to hit, which vs the average CR 5 target is roughly a 70% hit rate (taking the general touch AC of 12 which is roughly the average) or for a "tough" challenge of CR 8 it is roughly a 50% hit chance (taking a much higher average thanks to some high Touch challenges setting the target roughly around 16)

This is of course missing extra things such as cover for allies in the way and in combat penalties which give a -8 to the attack. The former can be mitigated by positioning (which though not always an option is part of the challenge of the game) and the later by a feat meaning this is a negligible problem. And of course this is ignoring any bonuses from feats like point blank, feeling the burn, or spells such as bless aiding further in that role.

So if people really have a problem with the BAB (and two of the three keneticists I have seen play have not had a problem) the best solution in my opinion is to give the keneticist a few bonus feats (ranged feats are a little bit of a tax on character building)

The other problem is that the above holds true for the Touch attacks but the normal attack options will have more problems hitting. For this a simple addition of the touch attack option for each element and giving a marked advantage to the non touch attacks (bonuses to hit for target type or objects use to throw ect.)

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

SwaOshi wrote:
There is no need for full BAB, the CR system as a whole is not tiered in a manner where touch AC scales well. What this means is that as the Keneticists levels there to hit increases but the enemies AC does not appreciably increase.

Many of the blasts don't target touch.


Jiggy wrote:
SwaOshi wrote:
There is no need for full BAB, the CR system as a whole is not tiered in a manner where touch AC scales well. What this means is that as the Keneticists levels there to hit increases but the enemies AC does not appreciably increase.
Many of the blasts don't target touch.

a fact which I addressed at the end of my post


SwaOshi wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
SwaOshi wrote:
There is no need for full BAB, the CR system as a whole is not tiered in a manner where touch AC scales well. What this means is that as the Keneticists levels there to hit increases but the enemies AC does not appreciably increase.
Many of the blasts don't target touch.
a fact which I addressed at the end of my post

I'd rather have a full BAB than your suggested 'fixes' for the non-touch blasts.

As far as touch attacks, it's true they don't scale well but that an even better reason to just switch to a full BAB. If you need a 2 to hit touch AC is it a boost to switch it to a full BAB and STILL need a 2? After a while, touch is pretty much an auto-hit and doesn't change from 3/4 to full BAB, but it's a HUGE boost to the normal AC attacks that could use all the help you can throw at them.


Yup.. it's pretty hard to balance both ways honestly. I kind of figure though honestly..
The touch AC attacks will become easier and easier to hit in general as levels grow. So.. really 3/4 or full bab.. they're gonnna be hitting pretty easy. So I've in general been a bit more concerned with the non touch.

So really I still vote pseduo full bab for blasts. or current BAB and alter burn in some way for at least a few free burns so you can get the siheld and FTB


graystone wrote:
As far as touch attacks, it's true they don't scale well but that an even better reason to just switch to a full BAB. If you need a 2 to hit touch AC is it a boost to switch it to a full BAB and STILL need a 2? After a while, touch is pretty much an auto-hit and doesn't change from 3/4 to full BAB

In my opinion this is the problem with the class (and a few others) having such an easy time to hit should not be the norm for any class, as it defeats the purpose of many combat encounters and if you wish to just bypass AC as a whole than you should be hitting saves rather than AC.


SwaOshi wrote:
graystone wrote:
As far as touch attacks, it's true they don't scale well but that an even better reason to just switch to a full BAB. If you need a 2 to hit touch AC is it a boost to switch it to a full BAB and STILL need a 2? After a while, touch is pretty much an auto-hit and doesn't change from 3/4 to full BAB
In my opinion this is the problem with the class (and a few others) having such an easy time to hit should not be the norm for any class, as it defeats the purpose of many combat encounters and if you wish to just bypass AC as a whole than you should be hitting saves rather than AC.

Your missing something. You bypassed AC only to often hit resistance/immunity. By the time you hit auto-hit you also hit often takes less/no damage.


Artanthos wrote:
I am not convinced full BAB is required. What is currently lacking is the ability to gain enhancement bonuses to attack. I have submitted Kinetic Bracers as an item that would address not only some of the to-hit issues, but allows or DR to be overcome.

I'd rather it were not Bracers. Many cool items occupy that slot and it's pretty necessary for good AC if the player wants to multiclass with Monk or other unarmored class. Gloves would be better, IMO. Or even an slotless item. After all, archers don't have to give up an item slot just to get enhancement bonuses.

Besides, the full BAB comes with an greater HD, which is extremely useful for a class that has to suffer non-healable damage just to use its own class features.

That said, accuracy is only one of the very serious limitations of the Kineticist... It lack of out-of-combat utility tot he point where it's about as useful as Fighter, it Burn mechanics don't work very well, causing this Con-based class to effectively have surprisingly low hp, and DR/SR/Resistance/Immunity can make an enemy all but immune to the Kineticist's attacks... My Aero-Kinetcist was basically useless against a Blue Dragon. Air blasts simply couldn't hit it and even when they did, the damage wasn't all that good... Attacking with Electricity was a non-option.

RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

A full BAB would also mean earlier qualification for certain combat feats (I can't think of any relevant ones at the moment, but I'm sure there must be some). It's not like we're condoning iterative blasts at their current strength after all. In my experience, the difference between 3/4 BAB and full BAB aren't terribly pronounced anyway and it would be the most elegant solution as opposed to incorporating additional class features to improve accuracy. This change would literally just be fixing their Table and Hit Die entries. Plus, a d10 or (gasp!) d12 hit die seems appropriate, considering, well...burn.


The gunslinger comparison is most apt to my mind.
Gunslinger has better skill selection, but doesn't have any of the 'magic' type support that the kineticists could have access to. The kineticists has less ability to pierce DR or gets to be subject to SR and elemental resistance.

I think 'elemental flavored' gunslinger is not a bad place to aim for balance wise.


They're attack rolls with feet! Obviously they should be full BAB, and we should get rid of this nonsense where a kinetic blast is a standard non-weapon action.


joeyfixit wrote:
They're attack rolls with feet! Obviously they should be full BAB, and we should get rid of this nonsense where a kinetic blast is a standard non-weapon action.

That almost made some kind sense. Did you have a point?

Silver Crusade

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My suggestions for Kineticist accuracy; note that they aren't intended to all be implemented at once.

1: Make their attack rolls use constitution, instead of Dex. That way they won't have to split their points between dex and con.
2: Make feel the burn NOT dependent on number of burn points, only that you have burn (IE a 6th level person would only need 1 point of burn to get the +2).
3: Double the effectiveness of Feel the Burn (so the person gets +2 to hit and damage per point of burn). I don't suggest combining this with any of the other stuff on this list (except maybe #1)
4: Give the Kineticist Precise Shot for free at level 2 or 3. Every other ranged attacker class either gets it as a bonus feat (archery ranger, zen archer) or has some way to bypass AC, such as by attacking touch AC (Gunslinger, Alchemist, spellcasters) and doesn't need it as much.
5: Give each kineticist a Touch blast and a normal AC blast. Don't make the Kineticists choose between them, except for the extra element stuff at level 7.


Alex:
#1 Not a fan. You can only drop dex so far do to AC , initiative and REF. You might be able to get away with this if they could wear heavier armor types.
#2 I could work with this. 1 burn I can work with.
#3 This still means shooting yourself a LOT to get it.
#4 yes, a thousand times this. Hunters get this, spells AND a pet.
#5 It'd be nice to start off with both at start.

Scarab Sages

Kineticist can wear heavier armor, they just need proficiency.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

I'm thinking that the issue with just giving full BAB comes from not wanting the kineticist to be great with all the weapons that aren't their blast/other powers. I can see a flavor/balance argument that they should not be awesome with a spear, for example.

So I'd be in favor of a conditional bonus that applies only to their blast - either conditional full BAB like a monk has, or a scaling bonus like the inquisitor's judgment that only applies when using kineticist powers.

Instead of just giving free Precise Shot, why not just add in a class ability that causes the blasts not to take the -4 for firing into melee. Again, the idea is that the class isn't necessarily good with arrow and throwing daggers, just really good with its blasts.

Dark Archive

ryric wrote:

I'm thinking that the issue with just giving full BAB comes from not wanting the kineticist to be great with all the weapons that aren't their blast/other powers. I can see a flavor/balance argument that they should not be awesome with a spear, for example.

So I'd be in favor of a conditional bonus that applies only to their blast - either conditional full BAB like a monk has, or a scaling bonus like the inquisitor's judgment that only applies when using kineticist powers.

Instead of just giving free Precise Shot, why not just add in a class ability that causes the blasts not to take the -4 for firing into melee. Again, the idea is that the class isn't necessarily good with arrow and throwing daggers, just really good with its blasts.

To repeat something said upthread, the gunslinger can fight at full BAB with a spear. Surprisingly we see few doing so.

Full BAB improves several aspects of the kineticist because it also guarantees d10 or d12 hit dice, and a kineticist needs to be able to function at half health without issue.

If gunslinger characters can get full BAB and 4+int skills, the kineticist should be getting the same treatment.

Scarab Sages

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Mergy wrote:
Full BAB improves several aspects of the kineticist because it also guarantees d10 or d12 hit dice, and a kineticist needs to be able to function at half health without issue.

BAB and hit die are not hard linked. Look at Dragon Disciple.

Dark Archive

The single exception happens to be a prestige class. Every other class in Pathfinder uses BAB linked with hit dice.


Well there's also Barbarian but that's a bit of a legacy thing.

Scarab Sages

Mergy wrote:
The single exception happens to be a prestige class. Every other class in Pathfinder uses BAB linked with hit dice.

It does make the point that the design team can choose to increase one without the other.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

Mergy wrote:

To repeat something said upthread, the gunslinger can fight at full BAB with a spear. Surprisingly we see few doing so.

Full BAB improves several aspects of the kineticist because it also guarantees d10 or d12 hit dice, and a kineticist needs to be able to function at half health without issue.

If gunslinger characters can get full BAB and 4+int skills, the kineticist should be getting the same treatment.

Actually the one time I've seen a gunslinger played it was the PFS pregen and she was much better off with her longsword than with her gun. But that speaks more toward the feat tax that is Precise Shot more than anything else.

I guess my argument is flavor - "person who manipulates the elements into attacks, barriers, and effects" doesn't strike me as someone who should be particularly good at (all forms of) fighting. But to me 1/2 BAB is what a normal person(commoner) has, and a class with better than that is trained at fighting to some extent, or very well trained for full BAB. Gunslingers shoot things, which is attacking, so they should be very good(full BAB). Kineticists manipulate elements, only part of which is attacking, so merely an "above average" (3/4) BAB seems appropriate.

But that definitely means they should get more utility out of their element than they currently do.


With full BAB it would be too strong as a dip.
- At will ranged attack with damage greater than a sling
- a wild power, some of which are strong


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Umbranus wrote:

With full BAB it would be too strong as a dip.

- At will ranged attack with damage greater than a sling
- a wild power, some of which are strong

For 1d6 + Con? With CL 1? That can't be used with magical weapons?

That really not worth delaying you class progression... You're better off grabbing a crossbow. Or, if you really, really want a ranged attack, a level of a class that gives you proficiency with longbows.


If the general opinion is that the touch attack blast do not have the desired reliability than there would be a appreciable problem. As far as I can see and as far as the opinions posited here it does not seem that many if anybody believes the touch attacks have a problem.

The simplest solution is to simply give a touch attack to each energy type which is a simple thing to justify in fluff.

Than if the desire is to make every blast desirable (rather then relegating players to simply picking the touch blast) give a reasonable bonus to the non touch attacks. examples may include

-force: give a damage increase for larger objects or flat footed for using objects in the environment.
-air: swap the air and electric attack type and give the electric a bonus to hit vs metal targets
-earth: provide difficult terrain for anyone hit, or entangled or some other fluff appropriate status effect
-Fire: provide the ability to bypass resistance with the normal attack version.

There is no reason a "casting" class should have full BAB, and there are obvious other problems with the class which have little to do with the BAB (increase utility and skills come to mind) but that is beyond the scope of this discussion and should not be used as an excuse for full BAB


With the right tweaks, the class could just as easily be poor BAB and d6 Hit Die. Burn is balanced around total hit points. If they raise the hit die, they would raise the burn. Likewise if they lower the hit die, they could lower the burn. Accuracy is a thing that can easily be added with various mechanics.

I feel lowering the hit die could help the class embrace more damage and more utility as it could become more comparable to a full caster.


Right now the class could have the barbarian chassis (d12,full Bab, 4 skills) and still be less effective than the barbarian, in and out of combat. The classes have some similarities in theme:
Both have raw innate power, that can develop into several complementary abilities, can overexert their bodies to channel more power, and are mostly focused in dealing sustained damage.
The difference is that rage offers more benefits than disadvantages, while burn is the opposite. Melee damage (or ranged, such barbarians do exist) is well built into the game, and there are several ways to deal with high AC or DR, while energy damage can be entirely avoided with the right spell/items/race.
The Barbarian's core attribute scales his chance to hit as well as damage, and his limited resource enhances it further.
Limited rage powers can be used once by rage, leaving no lasting penalty during the day.
Rage scales with level, meaning the barbarian becomes more effective at it with training.

It's not only the BaB that is underwhelming in the class. It's the whole cautious approach at something new. While it (kinetics) seems like a very powerful way to fight, it's not much different from weapon combat, and should be treated as part of the class, along with all the other stuff it needs to work.


graystone wrote:
joeyfixit wrote:
They're attack rolls with feet! Obviously they should be full BAB, and we should get rid of this nonsense where a kinetic blast is a standard non-weapon action.
That almost made some kind sense. Did you have a point?

What wasn't clear?


Lemmy wrote:
Umbranus wrote:

With full BAB it would be too strong as a dip.

- At will ranged attack with damage greater than a sling
- a wild power, some of which are strong

For 1d6 + Con? With CL 1? That can't be used with magical weapons?

That really not worth delaying you class progression... You're better off grabbing a crossbow. Or, if you really, really want a ranged attack, a level of a class that gives you proficiency with longbows.

I could honestly see it for lower level campaigns (E6 or some such). Have a Fighter dip Hydrokineticist, he picks up an emergency blast that targets Touch and an emergency pseudo Grease that, while the caster level won't scale, works off one of his better stats.


Lemmy wrote:
Umbranus wrote:

With full BAB it would be too strong as a dip.

- At will ranged attack with damage greater than a sling
- a wild power, some of which are strong

For 1d6 + Con? With CL 1? That can't be used with magical weapons?

That really not worth delaying you class progression... You're better off grabbing a crossbow. Or, if you really, really want a ranged attack, a level of a class that gives you proficiency with longbows.

Yeah, I'm trying to think of the potential for abuse at a one level dip, and not coming up with much. Barbarian? Bloodrager? These are the only magical/Supernatural Constitution-based classes I can think of. You'd be trading in a class level for a d6 ranged weapon, which no well-built Barb is going to do.

You still need dex to aim it. Gunslingers target touch AC without worrying about energy resistance or SR, and I don't see a whole lot of one level gunslinger dips at the tables.


kestral287 wrote:
Lemmy wrote:
Umbranus wrote:

With full BAB it would be too strong as a dip.

- At will ranged attack with damage greater than a sling
- a wild power, some of which are strong

For 1d6 + Con? With CL 1? That can't be used with magical weapons?

That really not worth delaying you class progression... You're better off grabbing a crossbow. Or, if you really, really want a ranged attack, a level of a class that gives you proficiency with longbows.

I could honestly see it for lower level campaigns (E6 or some such). Have a Fighter dip Hydrokineticist, he picks up an emergency blast that targets Touch and an emergency pseudo Grease that, while the caster level won't scale, works off one of his better stats.

And for that he's coughed up a feat (and his fighter level for fighter-only feats) and hurt his will save. I don't think it's necessary to burn his BAB, too.

That same fighter can dip in gunslinger for a free gun and grit, but people aren't (usually) calling for that to become a 3/4 BAB class.


kestral287 wrote:
Lemmy wrote:
Umbranus wrote:

With full BAB it would be too strong as a dip.

- At will ranged attack with damage greater than a sling
- a wild power, some of which are strong

For 1d6 + Con? With CL 1? That can't be used with magical weapons?

That really not worth delaying you class progression... You're better off grabbing a crossbow. Or, if you really, really want a ranged attack, a level of a class that gives you proficiency with longbows.

I could honestly see it for lower level campaigns (E6 or some such). Have a Fighter dip Hydrokineticist, he picks up an emergency blast that targets Touch and an emergency pseudo Grease that, while the caster level won't scale, works off one of his better stats.

Sure it's possible to tailor the campaign to whatever build one can come up with... That doesn't mean the dip is too good.

Hell! Even in a E6 campaign, dipping into (Full BAB + d10) Kineticist is okay at best.

Dark Archive

Melkiador wrote:

With the right tweaks, the class could just as easily be poor BAB and d6 Hit Die. Burn is balanced around total hit points. If they raise the hit die, they would raise the burn. Likewise if they lower the hit die, they could lower the burn. Accuracy is a thing that can easily be added with various mechanics.

I feel lowering the hit die could help the class embrace more damage and more utility as it could become more comparable to a full caster.

Hey guys,

I'll admit that I haven't had a chance to actually play a Kineticist yet, but they are one of the classes that most caught my eye when reading over the playtest document. That typed, I feel that the above would the wrong direction to take this class in.

Personally, my favorite thing about Kineticists right now is the ability to go melee-centric with them. If you make them into complete equivalents of wizards/sorcerors for BAB and HP, that really hurts their options for melee/close-combat and makes them just a spell-less mage (which would probably suck).

I would much rather see Kineticists get full BAB all the time and potentially a better HD too.

Maybe the way to balance melee vs. ranged combat would be to make it so that they'd suffer burn for every attack they make in a turn?

-That might end up being too severe, but there should be a way to balance the two styles of play without making one completely obsolete. While blasting things with elemental energy is cool, I'd personally like to have a character that can also summon energy blades at will while rushing into combat.


An archer with a conductive bow could make use of an unlimited sp ranged ability. It doesn't only deal 1d6 but 1d6+1+con mod. And using the wild power to get a healing power, always on feather fall or some other wild talents can be neat, too.


Good, poor or average BAB doesn't really matter in the long run, except for the melee infusions. If the class needs more HP, then burn can burn for less. If the class needs more accuracy, then that can be added with class features. The point is that there is no meaningful reason to give good BAB as compared to giving poor BAB. The same power levels could be achieved with either, with enough tweaks.

The class has average BAB, because its flavor calls for it. It is essentially a combat spell caster. It doesn't have a full spell progression equivalent though. So, it's an average BAB class.


As for the dip stuff i ngeneral..
making it full bab or not, I know a few things I would dip it for. Stuff like arcane trickster or sneak attack types.

Also someone mentioned that burn is a factor of max life; and I've seen it i na few other threads.. but isn't it a factor of character level?

So no matter what your hit die is, your always being damaged character level. So higher hit die means more likely more burn.
Isn't that right or did I miss some detail somewhere?

but yeah. I'd love to keep 3/4th bab, give pseudo full bab for blasts; but not the iterative melee (mechanically it's a bit strong, and it represents the difficulty to control an elemental weapon while fighitng close range with someone make ssense to me. can't exert full power), and change burn slightly (personally I'm still loving my lil idea but it needs work).

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