Help me with a cursed item


Rules Questions


So I have an NPC that is going to get a cursed item. This item has strong I think it would be enchantment/ mind effecting abilities. It makes loved ones seem it become creatures you hate will a murderous passion. A generic example would be a dwarf that gets it and his adventuring friends have become Half Orcs or Goblins. How should I write this up? What is the CL an item like this? What is the DC to identify? I think I want an ring so it should look like a ring of protection.

I want it to function like a prisoners ring meaning it is not easy to remove, cheapest option is a remove curse. Is that too much?

I have never messed with cursed items so any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you in advance.


Congratulations. Running a Cursed item (properly) is a big step in DMing.

An item that can't be removed is a common choice. Remove curse is the default removal in most cases. No problem there. Other options work just as well depending on the item. Some just automatically return if removed or discarded, cursed swords leaping into their owner's hands during a fight (or forcing a fight) are common.

As for identifying a cursed item, typically you need to beat the check by 10 or more. Anything less and you just detect what it's supposed to be/disguised as, say a ring of protection in your example.

Obviously, if you suddenly can't remove it, that's usually a good sign it's cursed, so most cursed items don't become 'sticky' until their bad sides manifest or they're first used in a stressful situation, like combat. That means someone picking up or swinging a sword, or even taking practice shots at a target or a friend might receive the actual bonuses, but as soon as a true threat or fight starts, it turns into a -2 sword and it always replaces your weapon whenever you try and swing at a creature.

In the case of your ring, once its 'hallucinatory' effects manifest you can decide whether it does or does not continue to provide its protection benefits. Your call, but I'd say keep them.


Cursed items mimicks a specific other magic item.
Your example is a cursed item mimicking a ring of protection. Say that it was mimicking a ring of protection +1, then it would work like this:

Identifier rolls a 17 or less on spellcraft: Identifier gets no info.

Identifier rolls 18-27 on spellcraft: Identifier believes that it is a ring of protection +1

Identifier rolls 28+ on spellcraft: Identifier knows that it is a cursed item and knows what it does.

The DC to identify a cursed item as the mimicked item is the normal DC for that item. The DC to realise that it is cursed is normal DC+10.
And Pizza Lord was correct in everything he said AFAIK


awesome thank you both. I have been hesitant to mess with cursed items as I have never encountered them as a player, I am still rather new to the game, and this is my first tempt as a GM to use one.

So having it be stuck on a person is not a big deal, I like this. And the effect I am wanting isn't to out there?


The effect you want sound to me, like Murderous Command.

I would set a trigger condition and a DC for the item. If X happens, the cursed player rolls will save vs DC of Y, and on a fail, follow the Murderous Command rules. But re-fluffed so their loved ones look like orcs.


This effect would probably be either an illusion (phantasm) or an enchantment (compulsion), depending on how much it forcibly changes the target's mental processes.

In terms of written effect, the description of the spell phantasmal killer (except less extreme and without any actual risk of harm) seems sort of like that. Or maybe it could work as an effect similar to a suggestion spell that says "perceive your friends as hated creatures" or something like that. Murderous command might work, but it seemed to me that you were referring to something that didn't control someone's actions, just changed how they perceived something. Either way, the victim would probably have a single Will save to disbelieve/be unaffected (probably either permanently or until they take it off and put it on again), at whatever difficulty you think is appropriate. Caster level would probably be around 5 to 8, depending on how high you make the saving throw DC, but that's just a wild guess on my part. I just noticed that a Stone of Weight is CL5, and a Berserking Sword is CL8, and it seems around that level of power.


I think I will have the will save happen right when the enchantment/compulsion is enacted, when the wearer sees the friendly. The NPC was with their friend and failed the save and now believes that his friend is actually a creature that the NPC hates, a Blue Dragon. This NPC thinks his long time friend has been a Dragon all along and only now reveled its self. I'm not sure about the DC yet but I will have to decide before the weekend.

If the save is failed and the ring is taken off would the target of the ring still believe the enchantment?

And do cursed item show all magical effects with detect magic? In the case of this ring it would show abjuration, I think, for the +1 protection part of it but would it show the enchantment part too? Wouldn't that clue PC's in that the item is more than they perceive it to be?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Deaths Adorable Apprentice wrote:

So I have an NPC that is going to get a cursed item. This item has strong I think it would be enchantment/ mind effecting abilities. It makes loved ones seem it become creatures you hate will a murderous passion. A generic example would be a dwarf that gets it and his adventuring friends have become Half Orcs or Goblins. How should I write this up? What is the CL an item like this? What is the DC to identify? I think I want an ring so it should look like a ring of protection.

I want it to function like a prisoners ring meaning it is not easy to remove, cheapest option is a remove curse. Is that too much?

I have never messed with cursed items so any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you in advance.

You generally can't identify cursed items as cursed. Just use the rules for identifying the item it APPEARS to be. CL... whatever you want it to be. Presumably high enough so that the party caster is going to have a devil of a time meeting it's DC.


I would set the DC at the party casters highest spell DC, then to identify the curse is still +10 on top of that (hope they didn't min max their spell DC's =p )

I might also suggest making the ring a ring of True Seeing 3/day, then when the ring is used for true seeing the curse occurs, and the user BELIEVES that they are seeing the truth. That might be a bit sneaky though.


There is, in fact, a system for this. It's all described very neatly on pages 106, 267, and 536 of the core rulebook. If someone uses detect magic (concentrating for 3 rounds), it works somewhat like

this:

"You discover that there is magic in this item. Roll a Knowledge (arcana) check. You can only do this if you are trained in that skill."

Possibility 1: Knowledge arcana: less than (15 + 1/2 caster level of item) = "No information available."

Possibility 2: Knowledge arcana: equal to or more than (15 + 1/2 caster level of item) but less than (25 + 1/2 caster level of item) = "Faint abjuration aura. You can make a Spellcraft check to identify its properties if you are trained in that skill." If they get equal to or more than (15 + caster level of item) on their Spellcraft check, they discover that it has the properties of a ring of protection +1.

Possibility 3: Knowledge arcana: equal to or more than (25 + 1/2 caster level of item) = "Faint abjuration aura and [insert aura of cursed item here]. You can make a Spellcraft check to identify its properties if you are trained in that skill. If they get equal to or more than (15 + caster level of item) but less than (25 + caster level of item) on their Spellcraft check, they discover that it has the properties of a ring of protection +1. If they get equal to or more than (25 + caster level of item) on their Spellcraft check, they discover its true properties.

Other useful information to remember: if they use the spell identify instead of detect magic, they get a +10 bonus on the Spellcraft check but not the Knowledge (arcana) check. Also, a certain person can only attempt to identify the properties once per day (more times just gives the same result. They can, however, use detect magic on it as many times as they wish in order to identify its aura. Finally, if they already know it is cursed, then ignore the DCs of "25 + whatever" and discover all of the information by succeeding on the checks of possibility 2.

Oh, and remember that you can just ignore all of this information if you want to and come up with your own DCs. Whatever you think is best.


LazarX wrote:
Deaths Adorable Apprentice wrote:

So I have an NPC that is going to get a cursed item. This item has strong I think it would be enchantment/ mind effecting abilities. It makes loved ones seem it become creatures you hate will a murderous passion. A generic example would be a dwarf that gets it and his adventuring friends have become Half Orcs or Goblins. How should I write this up? What is the CL an item like this? What is the DC to identify? I think I want an ring so it should look like a ring of protection.

I want it to function like a prisoners ring meaning it is not easy to remove, cheapest option is a remove curse. Is that too much?

I have never messed with cursed items so any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you in advance.

You generally can't identify cursed items as cursed. Just use the rules for identifying the item it APPEARS to be. CL... whatever you want it to be. Presumably high enough so that the party caster is going to have a devil of a time meeting it's DC.

I don't understand what you are saying.

d20pfsrd cursed items wrote:
Identifying Cursed Items: Cursed items are identified like any other magic item with one exception: unless the check made to identify the item exceeds the DC by 10 or more, the curse is not detected. If the check is not made by 10 or more, but still succeeds, all that is revealed is the magic item's original intent. If the item is known to be cursed, the nature of the curse can be determined using the standard DC to identify the item.

As far as I can tell that calls out the exact DC to identify a cursed item as cursed. The DC is the mimicked items DC+10


Sadly the group is leaving town and didn't do anything with this individual. Which means I can use it again later, yay!


That's just fine. Here's an idea. The cursed NPC can either catch up with them, or they run into the NPC on the road (it can be a different NPC if they already met the original but basically the same.)

He's got blood on him, maybe some wounds depending on if people fought back. He claims his farm/village/home was attacked by orcs or half-orcs. His cursed ring actually activated and he saw orcs and started attacking and actually killed his family/neighbors. Obviously he believes he's telling the truth for such things that check for it, and if the PCs investigate they find the slain bodies of his family. They've been slashed or bludgeoned. Nothing from the home is taken.

NPC claims there's a small half-orc community nearby or maybe an orc tribe and he asks the PCs to go and wipe them out for revenge. He offers like...10 gp for them to do it. If that's not enough or they don't seem willing, he offers them his magic ring of protection. Obviously it saved his life (and detects as such) and it must work especially well against orcs, so he offers it to a PC.

Maybe the PCs attack an innocent group of half-orcs, assuming they don't notice that all the people they're attacking wield clubs or longswords and the people at the farm were killed by slashing weapons or bludgeoning weapons, (whichever one they don't have). Make sure the camp is at least far enough away that a PC has a chance to be affected by the cursed ring if they're wearing it.

I know you've already got your ring set up, but here's one example of how such a cursed ring might be set up:

Cursed Ring of Intolerence:

Aura: as ring of protection +2 or Abjuration (it has Enchantment powers but the Abjuration is still stronger). CL: 6th

This specific ring detects as a ring of protection +2 and functions as such for all apparent tests except for being attacked in earnest by an orc-blooded foe, at which point it functions as -2 to AC against any such attacks. This effect is not easily noticeable in combat, so a wearer might not become aware of it for some time.

The ring's curse manifests once per day while the wearer is sleeping. If the wearer fails a DC 15 Will save (adjustable if too low) then they are subject to the equivalent of a suggestion spell; 'Orc-bloods cannot be tolerated or trusted,' for 6 hours from the time they awaken. The effect basically applies a two step penalty to initial reactions against orcs and half-orcs. A wearer who is friendly with such an individual will act as indifferent initially. A person who would be indifferent or worse towards an orc will react with hostility (lower results indicate an increasingly higher potential for open attack). This does not prevent effects or skills, such as Diplomacy, from improving the wearer's attitude, only more difficult.

The wearer can still gauge relative threat levels however, so will not attack if outnumbered or unarmed unless they would normally do so. This effect does not disrupt a sleeping creature regardless of their save and, as it does not allow control of the wearer, effects like protection from evil offer no protection.
Creatures which do not sleep have a chance to be affected as above, typically around dawn but a successful Will save may be detectable as resisting a mental assault, though not necessarily from where.

If the wearer fails the initial save against the suggestion, then they must make a second DC 15 Will save or be affected by a phantasm that clouds their mind and makes them see orcs in place of other humanoid creatures.

The phantasm includes auditory distortions that make communication from such masked targets sound harsh, gutteral, and threatening. This is not actual orcish however and a wearer that can understand orcish just hears threatening growls and grunts. This phantasm never masks orc-blooded humanoids, even if they are disguised as a different race. Example, a wearer failing this second save would see a human, an elf, a half-orc, and an orc wearing an elf disguise as an orc or half-orc, an orc or half-orc, that same half-orc, and an elf (with a normal check to realize it's a disguise), respectively. This effect can occur at any time during the duration of the suggestion effect and typically happens at a time when it would be most detrimental to the wearer or those around him.

While the ring's curse does not force a wearer to attack orc-blooded targets and a wearer that is friendly to a known orc will likely just act distant and unfriendly that day, the fact that the curses phantasm can mask other creatures (even loved ones) as orcs makes it highly likely that the wearer will attack and kill them, since they appear as unknown, hostile seeming individuals (which would normally be an indifferent attitude initially at best, but while under the suggestion will almost always result in hostility.)

This ring can easily be removed or discarded at any time, though the effects of a failed save remain. Additionally, the curse has no effect on orc--blooded wearers. (Just a design decision, you can say it functions on orcs to but in regard to elves or dwarves.)

That's just one possible way it could work not only for NPCs but also potentially on PCs (on which things that influence their actions can be difficult to pull off.) Also, since it only adjusts attitude, it won't necessarily cause a PC to murder a half-orc ally. You may have to explain that they feel distrustful or don't feel like interacting with that individual, but since most party are assumed to be helpful or friendly with each other it won't cause party killing (which would be something to seriously avoid since it causes resentment unless done very carefully.) This all assumes mature players who understand the item is there as part of a story and to provide a challenge or puzzle/mystery, not as some evil toy you're using just for the sake of using an evil toy.


Pizza Lord is awesome! This is brilliant I will use it. Though much later I think. Thank you very much.

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