I'm curious how GMs and Players alike deal with the necromancer's favorite material component, considering fun facts like:
•Onyx isn't a very valuable rock, so 25g/50g chunks are going to be particularly huge (probably not fitting into any eye sockets!).
•Components list doesn't clarify if lots of onyx adding up to the required amount works, or if you need a single piece of the stuff per undead animated/created. This also ties into the above point - if trying to create a 18HD undead (a common number, as that's a T-Rex which make for great undead), that's 900gp worth of Onyx, and that's a LOT of onyx, *especially* if it has to be a single piece!
Onyx on Golarion is probably worth a lot more than on Earth due to its use in magic. I wouldn't worry too much about the size of the onyx you need.
Onyx is considered "semi-precious" and 50 gp of it probably wouldn't weigh very much at all.
Gems: Although you can assign any value to a gemstone, some are inherently more valuable than others. Use the value categories below (and their associated gemstones) as guidelines when assigning values to gemstones.
Low-Quality Gems (10 gp): agates; azurite; blue quartz; hematite; lapis lazuli; malachite; obsidian; rhodochrosite; tigereye; turquoise; freshwater (irregular) pearl
Semi-Precious Gems (50 gp): bloodstone; carnelian; chalcedony; chrysoprase; citrine; jasper; moonstone; onyx; peridot; rock crystal (clear quartz); sard; sardonyx; rose, smoky, or star rose quartz; zircon
Medium Quality Gemstones (100 gp): amber; amethyst; chrysoberyl; coral; red or brown-green garnet; jade; jet; white, golden, pink, or silver pearl; red, red-brown, or deep green spinel; tourmaline
High Quality Gemstones (500 gp): alexandrite; aquamarine; violet garnet; black pearl; deep blue spinel; golden yellow topaz
Jewels (1,000 gp): emerald; white, black, or fire opal; blue sapphire; fiery yellow or rich purple corundum; blue or black star sapphire
Grand Jewels (5,000 gp or more): clearest bright green emerald; diamond; jacinth; ruby
Granted, it doesn't specify the weight of these, but I think it's assumed they are "gemstone sized" in that they could easily fit onto a ring or necklace. I don't think the weight would be an issue, even for 1,000 gp worth.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
It is one of those things that most of us handwave. If they pay the money I let them use the onyx.
Typically in our group, we ask the GM how much of a spell component we can get whenever we get ready for an adventure from the town/city we are in. The players then buy whatever amount they are interested in and that is placed on the character sheet in gp amounts. This way we have a logged amount that is available when we are out on adventure to keep track of. At lower levels we tend to track how much of each and the worth of the individual stones, but at higher levels we tend to worry about it less (when you can teleport back to town to exchange the ten 50gp stones for one 500gp, does it really matter? Is how we look at it).
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
If you are a wizard use the blood money spell
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Except no GM in their right mind would ever allow the Blood Money spell.
Except no GM in their right mind would ever allow the Blood Money spell.
Disagree, but to each their own.
Alchemy checks mostly... Onyx is essentially volcanic glass, not difficult to replicate.
My GM would allow it and I'd certainly allow it.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
If you are a wizard use the blood money spell
Or False Focus up to a point.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Actually in one of the splatbooks its talks about how Onyx is a controlled substance in many towns and cities, directly as a result of its necromantic uses. The towns don't want undead about, so they make the spell component illegal.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
My big problem is the metagame-y B.S. inherent in using Onyx to raise undead the way the rules describe.
It's 25gp worth of Onyx per hit dice of the creature you're trying to raise. What's a "hit dice" to the character doing the raising? How does the necromancer know which onyx to use? What happens if they pick one that's too small or two big? There's no rules regarding how to tell how many "hit dice" a corpse used to have.
In my games I use onyx dust. That way the amounts can be regulated. You just pour it on until the ritual works. The character doesn't need to know the exact hit dice before hand that way.
Another alternative is Scrimshaw. The necromancer uses the Craft skill to turn the bones themselves into something worth the appropriate amount. This can take a little longer in game, but is thematically interesting and means the character doesn't have to blow all their money on material components.
I dont have a GP cost on undead creation. Pehaps some rare incense to give a sligth bonus. But undead is supposed to be too easy to make. And the cost of violating ones soul as well as some random guys is not calculatet in GP.
Evil is free but at a terrible cost.
Except no GM in their right mind would ever allow the Blood Money spell.
Well, since the spell works with blood money it should work. This is like saying it doesn't work with False Focus just because you don't like it.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Except no GM in their right mind would ever allow the Blood Money spell.Well, since the spell works with blood money it should work. This is like saying it doesn't work with False Focus just because you don't like it.
A GM can disallow a Spell or a feat!
My big problem is the metagame-y B.S. inherent in using Onyx to raise undead the way the rules describe.
It's 25gp worth of Onyx per hit dice of the creature you're trying to raise. What's a "hit dice" to the character doing the raising? How does the necromancer know which onyx to use? What happens if they pick one that's too small or two big? There's no rules regarding how to tell how many "hit dice" a corpse used to have.
In my games I use onyx dust. That way the amounts can be regulated. You just pour it on until the ritual works. The character doesn't need to know the exact hit dice before hand that way.
Another alternative is Scrimshaw. The necromancer uses the Craft skill to turn the bones themselves into something worth the appropriate amount. This can take a little longer in game, but is thematically interesting and means the character doesn't have to blow all their money on material components.
metagamey?
The necromancer knows one undead is more powerful than another, and knows he needs a better/bigger/more valuable onyx for more powerful undead for the magic to work.
Simple.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I deal with it like any other special material component. caster needs to cart around any he think's he'll need, and have to use it sparingly until he can replenish them.
of course if you wanna bypass it, play either a wordcaster, or grab the experimental wordcaster feat to grab the undeath wordspell.
standard action, no material components. only drawback is that it doesnt interact with desecrate.
|
I feel that there is small "disconnection" in explanation of spell. RAW, it says that you need Onyx gems worth of specific value such as 50g Onyx gem for 2 HD undead creature, but RAI that seems fundamently wrong. How come villains never carry bulks of those gem types? Doesn't it add more annoyance in having to choose gems of specific values? How do spellcasters in game know which gem is required to be used since 50g worth gem might work in the same way as 200g gem for 2 HD creature?
There is so much trouble with animating dead per RAW, but RAI you probably ever needed a simple 25g worth Onyx gem ever (in bulks) and use as much is needed. At least I believe it's supposed to work like that for pure simplicity sake otherwise you need entire list of gems of specific values.
Adam
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
That's why, once you have a handful of undead, you park them in an onyx mine with pickaxes in the middle of nowhere so you can have a ready supply of onyx.
That's why, once you have a handful of undead, you park them in an onyx mine with pickaxes in the middle of nowhere so you can have a ready supply of onyx.
but here is where it gets interesting... since the spell requires the value of onyx and not the amount, and since you are the primary supplier and buyer in that area you could fix the market and declare arbitrary prices and make any sliver fit the bill
How do you deal with Onix? Well, while it is resistant to fire attacks, its special defense is abysmally low, so you should still have Ch******der use its fire attacks.
How do you get Onix to fit into places? That is what p***balls are are for..
Wait....we are talking about a different kind of onyx, aren't we?
Anyway, maybe we shouldn't think of this in terms of mass, but perhaps along the idea of quality- this gem can hold X amount of necromantic energy. A different gem of a similar size might hold (X times 3) amount of energy since its crystaline structure is better at holding energy.
This is hold I like to view the diamonds for raise spells, at least- those diamonds are not worth that much as jewelry- they might actually be god ugly. No, they are a form of industrial diamond that is suited for the job. Thus, their value is born purely from their utility rather than aesthetics.
Now, this approach might mean you find some onyx that is not actually useful. But, I counter- who the hell would carry around non industrial onyx when it makes you look like a necromancer? You are not going to find non-useful onyx, all of the looted onyx is from other necromancers, traders working with necromancers, or do-gooders who killed a necromancer and took his onyx as proof.
Just buy them in a new age shop with theaputic Stones then the Price is more rigth for moving them around.
My players have to actually find it. Either in a specialty shop in a very shady place that specializes in necromancy or in a place where buying that much onyx would be suspicious.
Smaller onyx gems can be fused into one with a fabricate spell
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
What if you get a discount? If you can buy Onyx at 20% off, do you need to buy 25% more of it?
How do I deal with Onyx? Well, squirtle or any other water poke'-- Oh wait...
More seriously, blood money, words of power, a kind gm.
I remember the time I convinced a guardsman that i was selling onyx to kind undead who wanted a child, oh lord the naive fool.
Alchemy checks mostly... Onyx is essentially volcanic glass, not difficult to replicate.
i know this thread is old, but volcanic glass is obsidian, onyx is an actual stone (primarily silica), specifically chalcedony. it's the same as agate, just colored differently.