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The human sorcerer favored class bonus is great, but I'll also chime in that it doesn't look game breaking to me.
You play the game to have fun.
Having more choice is fun.
For the most part, Levels 1-10 this is an option to cast an extra spell of a level much lower than you. Remember this doesn't give any extra castings per day.
Level 1-3: You can choose to cast a cantrip.
Even if I told my players that they could scribe cantrips for 5g, I don't know if this would come up much. Plus the scroll actually gives you an extra casting, versus just the option to use a slot to cast. What's this going to be abused for? Most good sorcerers will have the "good cantrips" like Detect Magic. This gives them an option to cast dancing lights, ghost sound, open/close... probably something that doesn't see a lot of use.
Level 4-5: Extra 1st level spell. The wizard picks up Fly at 5, and you get the option to use your spell slots for -- Grease, Jump, Floating Disc? For 25g the sorcerer could have the spell and the extra casting. If you're seeing 8-12 "encounters" per level, maybe you'd read 3-4 of these scrolls, or use the utility spell you learned 3-4 times?
That's the way I'd look at it.. you gave up permanent skills/hit points for saving money on some scrolls. Maybe 250-500g worth by the time you hit level 6. And those scrolls give you extra casting power versus consuming your spell slots.
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Setting all that aside, when you are trying to tell people "don't worry, a bunch of new feats doesn't mean power creep" and then Paizo kicks things off with a power balloon, the case is undercut.
I cant see any thinking sorc taking this option before level 4, and even then it is really quite weak until you get access to using it for 2nd level spells these low level spells aren't really worth sacrificing an extra HP, or skill point.
Maybe it's just my games though. Maybe you all play in games where the casters don't get attacked and you never use your skills for RP heavy portions.
To me, this a nice balanced choice, one that opens up new possibilities to the player, and is far from mandatory the way it sits.
20 extra HP is better for a sorcerer than it is for a fighter because the sorcerer is softer and the HP represent a bigger percent boost. And yet the clear and obvious agreement is not just that no human sorcerer will take the HP now, but that there may even be too much motivation to make all sorcerers human just to get this.
Keep in mind that this is a preview. For all we know there are going to be a bunch of abilities for non human sorcerers that will make people consider using non human races as well. I would guess that Gnomes, Half-Elves, and Half-Orcs all have a good chance of getting new sorcerer options. I'm fairly certain that Paizo was careful enough to try and spread out favored class bonuses for each individual class among several races. As long as they did this, I think everything will be fine.
There's a feat from complete arcane called "extra spell", which only grant one extra spell known per selected. If Human sorcerer can have one extra spell known "every level" that's really really powerful. This might not be totally broken, but it would become a no-brainer.
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The power only advances every other level.Wizard: Select one arcane school power at 1st level that is normally usable a number of times per day equal to 3 + the wizard's Intelligence modifier. The wizard adds +1/2 to the number of uses per day of that arcane school power."... increases by half the number of uses per day ..." surely?
Witness the power of my demi-acid dart...
Are we sure that's what this means? I know I must have read that line a half dozen times so far and I'm still not sure what it means ...
It almost kind of sounds as if the wizard takes his normal uses per day of that arcane school power and then adds an additional 1/2 that number on top
i.e. 3 + INT mod (let's say +3) = 6 uses per day. Add +1/2 of 6, which is 3, so 6 + 3 = 9 ... 9 uses per day of that arcane school power instead of 6.
I'm not saying this is correct, I'm just trying to figure out what the heck it actually means!
And yet the clear and obvious agreement is not just that no human sorcerer will take the HP now, but that there may even be too much motivation to make all sorcerers human just to get this.
Just my thoughts. 1) We have no idea what other Racial Sorcerer options will be like. 2) It's an extra spell known (versatility), not an extra spell slot (power). 3) 20 HP are still a big deal for a Sorcerer. All the versatility in the world means squat if you get one-shotted by the Big Bad.
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There's a feat from complete arcane called "extra spell", which only grant one extra spell known per selected. If Human sorcerer can have one extra spell known "every level" that's really really powerful. This might not be totally broken, but it would become a no-brainer.
Except the spell must be 1 level lower, unlike the feat. Wizards get to Fly, Sorc gets to chose between Magic Missile and Identify.
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And this is vastly better for the sorcerer than 20 HP for a fighter. And if you are sayign 20 HP, that is AT LEVEL 20. 20 HP at L20 is minor, whereas 3 more 8th level spells known is freaking insane.
I don't buy this...
At 20th level, the average encounter yields 67,000gp of treasure or ~17,000gp per person. An 8th level scroll is 3000g. If there's 3 spells at 8th level you want, you can basically pick up 6 scrolls (and extra castings) for the loot from a single encounter. Over the 10-12 encounters you face before leveling again, you *might* read all 6 scrolls. Once again, those scrolls are extra castings unlike the human variant which is just the option to cast with your slots.
You'd actually have a tough decision between knowing more spells or having 20HP. The difference between 80HP and 100HP at Level 20 is lifesaving and many level 20 characters would gladly expend 18,000g, 50,000g or even 100,000g on dozens of scrolls to cover whatever they might choose with the extra known spells, then take those HP and run.
I can tell you, without a doubt, good BBEG sorcerers will take the HPs over the known spells, and simply get some scrolls for those utility spells they might want to cast!
It honestly sounds like it could be good balanced variant option...
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The Human sorcerer favored class bonus in the preview seems really overpowered. The Sorcerers main drawback is their extremely limited spell selection- I don't think I, or any of my players, would play anything but a Human when rolling up a sorcerer, and would take the extra spell known every time.
Consider that gaining a single extra spell known was, at one point, a feat. Toughness, as the Pathfinder feat, gives +1 hp per level (average, anyway). If you put every single favored class bonus into hit points, that's equal to the benefit you see from a single feat. Alternately, you can put every bonus into gaining an extra spell, which is almost (almost because the spell has to be 1 level lower than your highest) as good as taking Extra Spell twenty times.
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It almost kind of sounds as if the wizard takes his normal uses per day of that arcane school power and then adds an additional 1/2 that number on topi.e. 3 + INT mod (let's say +3) = 6 uses per day. Add +1/2 of 6, which is 3, so 6 + 3 = 9 ... 9 uses per day of that arcane school power instead of 6.
I'm not saying this is correct, I'm just trying to figure out what the heck it actually means!
No, what it means is that you get an extra use out of it for every 2 levels you choose that as your favored class bonus.
Level 1, you choose this, 6 + 3 + .5 = 9.5 = 9 uses
Level 2, Choose it again, 6 + 3 + .5 + .5 = 10 uses
You only really see benefit from it every 2 levels you use it.
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The Human sorcerer favored class bonus in the preview seems really overpowered. The Sorcerers main drawback is their extremely limited spell selection- I don't think I, or any of my players, would play anything but a Human when rolling up a sorcerer, and would take the extra spell known every time.
Consider that gaining a single extra spell known was, at one point, a feat. Toughness, as the Pathfinder feat, gives +1 hp per level (average, anyway). If you put every single favored class bonus into hit points, that's equal to the benefit you see from a single feat. Alternately, you can put every bonus into gaining an extra spell, which is almost (almost because the spell has to be 1 level lower than your highest) as good as taking Extra Spell twenty times.
Yes, extra spell.
A crappy feat, from a splatbook full of goofy things like communicator and spellhand, from 3.5 which this current system antiquates. Just to be sure we are talking about the same thing here.
Apples and oranges people.
Re: the ¨+1/2¨ in the Elven Wizard power, I THOUGHT that was a type-O meant to reference +1/2 class levels, but a little ¨reading the actual passage a second time¨ seemed to clear it up rather well for me:
Wizard: Select one arcane school power at 1st level that is normally usable a number of times per day equal to 3 + the wizard's Intelligence modifier. The wizard adds +1/2 to the number of uses per day of that arcane school power.
Once an elven wizard takes this power twice, he gains an additional use of that ability.
So you have to take 2 levels choosing this option before you get another use (or any effect from choosing this option).
I`m also in the camp that the human Sorceror favored class option is crazy stuff.
Human Sorcerors are probably going to pick from the HP option at low levels, but once they have 3rd level spells, I think picking up more 2nd level spells known (and higher level after that point) is just going to be crazy effective. ...The fact the Elven Wizard power is +1 usage/2 levels just makes the Human Sorceror option look even more powerful - I think a similar approach for the Human Sorceror option (+1 spell known of -1 max spell level every 2 levels you take this favored class option) would still be MORE than attractive.
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Stonesinger also had some ambiguity for me:
Do you just get a Caster/Class Level bump for EXISTING class abilities, or do you gain class abilities a level early?
In any case, I really hope the editing process was alot better for the APG than the Core Rulebook. I presume it`s easier, since it`s not a brand new rule-set and there is alot more familiarity with that ruleset now (and the nuances that need to be looked after, e.g. action types re: attacks). I`d really really like to buy the first printing of the APG, but I am not getting burned after the Core Rules.
The power only advances every other level.Are we sure that's what this means? I know I must have read that line a half dozen times so far and I'm still not sure what it means ...
Wizard: Select one arcane school power at 1st level that is normally usable a number of times per day equal to 3 + the wizard's Intelligence modifier. The wizard adds +1/2 to the number of uses per day of that arcane school power.
Once an elven wizard takes this power twice, he gains an additional use of that ability.
The bolded section seems to make it pretty clear. You need to take it twice before you get a single additional use.
FWIW, I'd be inclined to do something similar for the additional spell for Human Sorcs, but I'd like to see the APGs write-up on it in full first.
Director of Game Design
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Hey there Everybody,
Let me just dive right into the deep end here with the Human Sorcerer favored class bonus.
Yes, it is an attractive choice. No, it is not really game breaking. Here's why.
The sorcerer's main balance for his increased number of spells is two-fold. The first, and most important, is his staggered spell progression (he gets his higher level spells later). I cannot stress how large of a drawback this is. The second, is his limited spell selection. This is a lesser concern because it is easily overcome with items (scrolls, wands, staves, all make this a much smaller issue).
When it came time to look at these class bonuses, this one did seem quite good, on paper. In reality, due to the staggered progression, you are, at best, getting a bit of extra variety, in a power level that is roughly 3 levels behind where the groups current power level is. That is valuable, to be sure, but it actually is only working to alleviate the second concern, while still living in the constraints of the first.
Now, that said, you might not agree. If you are the GM, you are free to work with your group to allow or disallow anything in the game, from this class bonus right up to the ranger class if you want, but there are a lot of fun, new options in this book, and I hope you will take a look.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Most of the players I know considered the Extra Spell feat to be worthless. I tend to agree. Feat slots or too valuable to waste for one extra spell. When I have played a sorcerer (typicall multiclassed in 3.5) I would pick up wands, scrolls, or staves for the extra spells and save the feat slot for better options.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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On the subject of some of the questions asked:
1. Fractional favored class benefits: Like everything else in Pathfinder, fractions always round down, so any of the fractional favored class elements you have to take enough times to get a whole number before you get any benefit. The original sample ideas I got were all 1:1 benefits per level. In the turnover for this chapter, I proposed the idea of doing some abilities fractionally like this one, for things that might be too good to allow as cheaply as a one-level swap for a HP/SkP. When you get the book, if you see any abilities that you happen to think are too good (as some folks are indicating about the sorcerer spell choice option), feel free to apply the same kind of rule.
2. "One level higher - what does it mean?" It means that abilities that you HAVE function as if you were one level higher. That's it. You're treated as one level higher when using the powers that you have, not when figuring out which powers you get to use.
In short: It does not mean that you GET any abilities you don't already have.
3. What about everybody else? Dudes, it's a blog post preview. The chapter is like 20+ pages long. Everybody gets some lovin'!
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Director of Game Design
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On the subject of some of the questions asked:
1. Fractional favored class benefits: Like everything else in Pathfinder, fractions always round down, so any of the fractional favored class elements you have to take enough times to get a whole number before you get any benefit.
2. "One level higher - what does it mean?" It means that abilities that you HAVE function as if you were one level higher. That's it.
It does not mean that you GET any abilities you don't already have.
3. What about everybody else? Dudes, it's a blog post preview. The chapter is like 20+ pages long. Everybody gets some lovin'.
1. Correct.
2. Correct. I cut out a sentence that said just that just to keep the blog post short.
3. Correct.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
I can only say that I love the Human Sorcerer Favored Class bonus.
First of all, as Jason pointed out, it only gives more variety on lower-level spell, slightly reducing the gap with the Wizard. Now, since some people here seem to be afraid of 7 known 8th-level spells and 4 9th-level spells (Bloodline spells included) at 20th level, I would like to point out that a Wizard which have not invested any money on scrolls can know 4 8th-level spells and 8 9th-level spells at 20th level (or other combinations, like 7 8th-level spells and 5 9th-level spells or 6 8th-level spells and 6 9th-level spells). With a little effort, more of them. With MagicMart, all of them.
For people who compare this bonus with others, well, we only have seen the Elf Wizard and the Gnome Bard. While I'm not overwhelmend by the Elf Wizard ability (but it's true that it gives more uses to an existing ability, which - again - is not the same thing for the Human Sorcerer, which has the same allowance of spells per day, only more variety), I would like to point out that the Gnome Bard favored class bonus is equivalent to 3 feats (Extra Performance taken three times), more than the Toughness feat (20 hp over 20 levels).
And for people who say that the Sorcerer favored class bonus is equivalent to 20 feats (Extra spell), I would like to point out that the feat was not 3.5 Core but from a splatbook. Some people could know it, some people would allow it, but for those without the book (or with a GM who would not allow it), the ability is not worth 20 feats - since there are NO such feats.
I personally like it very much - the Wizard is still ahead, but the Human Sorcerer can fill some gaps. And we don't even know other Favored class abilities - who knows what the Half-orc Barbarian (more rage rounds ?), Dwarf Fighter (...really dunno), Human Monk (extra ki points ?) would gain ? Before jumping at conclusions, I would say 'let's see the whole book'.
Just my 2c anyway.
I think I am almost as excited for this book as I was for the Core book.
2. Correct. I cut out a sentence that said just that just to keep the blog post short.
Great, this was the part that was making me worry about editing, since otherwise it seemed like a cut-and-paste of final rules text and not a synopsis.
Over-all, options like this seem great, and I`m sure every class and race will be getting it`s share of awesome-sauce. Just keep the previews rolling!
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Director of Game Design
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And for people who say that the Sorcerer favored class bonus is equivalent to 20 feats (Extra spell), I would like to point out that the feat was not 3.5 Core but from a splatbook. Some people could know it, some people would allow it, but for those without the book (or with a GM who would not allow it), the ability is not worth 20 feats - since there are NO such feats.
Unless I put a similar feat into this book.. one that was better than the relatively poor Extra Spell feat. Not saying anything.. just moving along...
I personally like it very much - the Wizard is still ahead, but the Human Sorcerer can fill some gaps. And we don't even know other Favored class abilities - who knows what the Half-orc Barbarian (more rage rounds ?), Dwarf Fighter (...really dunno), Human Monk (extra ki points ?) would give ? Before jumping at conclusions, I would say 'let's see the whole book'.
Just my 2c anyway.
This is wisdom. There are a lot of other abilities here. Some are a little better than others, but it is about versatility here. What you are getting is relatively small in the grand scheme of things.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Forgot to mention, the artwork is fantastic!
And for people who say that the Sorcerer favored class bonus is equivalent to 20 feats (Extra spell), I would like to point out that the feat was not 3.5 Core but from a splatbook. Some people could know it, some people would allow it, but for those without the book (or with a GM who would not allow it), the ability is not worth 20 feats - since there are NO such feats.Unless I put a similar feat into this book.. one that was better than the relatively poor Extra Spell feat. Not saying anything.. just moving along...
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Hooray :D !!!
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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It closes the gap between wizards and sorcerers. Yes, every sorc will be human and take it; a bit of a shame since halflings are better sorcs righ now. But sorcs need this; at least around me, they see 0 play. And I'd rather play high-Cha than high-int any day.
Wait and see what other race's sorcs get. You never know, might be fun.
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Hey there Everybody,
Let me just dive right into the deep end here with the Human Sorcerer favored class bonus.
Yes, it is an attractive choice. No, it is not really game breaking. Here's why.
The sorcerer's main balance for his increased number of spells is two-fold. The first, and most important, is his staggered spell progression (he gets his higher level spells later). I cannot stress how large of a drawback this is. The second, is his limited spell selection. This is a lesser concern because it is easily overcome with items (scrolls, wands, staves, all make this a much smaller issue).
My bigger issue with it is that, because of how this is set up, human-only (or at least limited to a race or two); I think that sorcs can survive a power bump, but giving it to humans only? Ogre raised this early on, and I think it's a fairly big problem.
As you say, it's an attractive option, but it seems to me to be too much more attractive than the other options (the extra hit point or a skill point, the former of which is worth precisely one feat); when you bring in new options so much better than the previous options to which these are an alternative -- and it really does seem to me to be significantly better than a hit point or skill point per level -- it seems to me that there's a design issue. If sorcs have problems, why would they get fixed in this piecemeal, race-limited way through alterations to a pre-existing favoured-class system that arguably makes the previous options pretty unattractive?
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It closes the gap between wizards and sorcerers. Yes, every sorc will be human and take it; a bit of a shame since halflings are better sorcs righ now. But sorcs need this; at least around me, they see 0 play. And I'd rather play high-Cha than high-int any day.Wait and see what other race's sorcs get. You never know, might be fun.
Well, not that many classes will get a favoured class option for sorc, will they?
I am just hoping there will be some feats and spells which will allow a bard to close the personal combat gap with a psychic warrior.
Doug
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It closes the gap between wizards and sorcerers. Yes, every sorc will be human and take it; a bit of a shame since halflings are better sorcs righ now. But sorcs need this; at least around me, they see 0 play. And I'd rather play high-Cha than high-int any day.
It's always interesting to hear how various groups differ in styles ... I"ve seen plenty of sorcerers played in my groups - probably a roughly 50/50 sorcerer/wizard ration in fact. We have a 10th level sorcerer (and no wizard) in our current Council of Thieves game in fact)
Personally, I tend to prefer the more limited, but more "open ended" nature of spontaneous casting
Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled thread ...
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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Well, not that many classes will get a favoured class option for sorc, will they?It closes the gap between wizards and sorcerers. Yes, every sorc will be human and take it; a bit of a shame since halflings are better sorcs righ now. But sorcs need this; at least around me, they see 0 play. And I'd rather play high-Cha than high-int any day.Wait and see what other race's sorcs get. You never know, might be fun.
I am unfortunately not at liberty to discuss said fact, but I can tell you that the number of races that get favored class stuff for sorc is larger than 1 and smaller than 100. Anything more than that, you'll just have to WAFO. :)
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Director of Game Design
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My bigger issue with it is that, because of how this is set up, human-only (or at least limited to a race or two); I think that sorcs can survive a power bump, but giving it to humans only? Ogre raised this early on, and I think it's a fairly big problem.
As you say, it's an attractive option, but it seems to me to be too much more attractive than the other options (the extra hit point or a skill point, the former of which is worth precisely one feat); when you bring in new options so much better than the previous options to which these are an alternative -- and it really does seem to me to be significantly better than a hit point or skill point per level -- it seems to me that there's a design issue. If sorcs have problems, why would they get fixed in this piecemeal, race-limited way through alterations to a pre-existing favoured-class system that arguably makes the previous options pretty unattractive?
Possibly, but I think you are equating versatility with power, which is not always the case. A hit point or a skill point is a permanent increase to the power of your character. While it might not always come into play, it is something that will always be there for you.
I think it is easy to look at this bonus and say "wow that is really good", but when you are making that decision one step at a time, the bonus becomes a little less significant. When you hit sixth level, you are much more excited about the third level spell you get, and a bit less about the extra 2nd level spell you can choose. In the end, it does not grant you any additional power, but it does grant you a little extra versatility. Handy to be sure, but not really as overpowered as some are making it out to be.
Its a balancing act to be sure...
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
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It closes the gap between wizards and sorcerers. Yes, every sorc will be human and take it; a bit of a shame since halflings are better sorcs righ now. But sorcs need this; at least around me, they see 0 play. And I'd rather play high-Cha than high-int any day.Wait and see what other race's sorcs get. You never know, might be fun.
Any chance we could get a preview of what Gnome sorcerers get? I started a sorcerer up just last Saturday in a Kingmaker game and I'd love to at least know if there's something waiting for me in August.
I'm pretty sure the folks at Paizo created other good options for none-human sorcerers. As it stands the human sorcerer IS more attractive than other option, because the other options have not been revealed yet- besides it's not like this is open to vote, the playtest is over.
That siad, the lackluster Elven wizard bonus helps the human sorcerer look good. (not that I have any problem with it- elven wizards are powerful enough, they don't need that big a boost).
Overall, I've loved every preview I've seen and I'm dying to get this book. I think Paizo has damaged my health with the anticipation thier products have caused to be in the past few years.
I think I am almost as excited for this book as I was for the Core book.
I am more excited for this one
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Possibly, but I think you are equating versatility with power, which is not always the case. A hit point or a skill point is a permanent increase to the power of your character. While it might not always come into play, it is something that will always be there for you.
I think it is easy to look at this bonus and say "wow that is really good", but when you are making that decision one step at a time, the bonus becomes a little less significant. When you hit sixth level, you are much more excited about the third level spell you get, and a bit less about the extra 2nd level spell you can choose. In the end, it does not grant you any additional power, but it does grant you a little extra versatility. Handy to be sure, but not really as overpowered as some are making it out to be.
Its a balancing act to be sure...
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
It certainly is a balancing act. I'll give it a go, but I could see myself going to it being worth half a spell, as the wizard power is worth half a daily use, or something like that.
Maybe I'm also a bit worried that these favoured class bonuses make it even more likely characters pick a race for a class they want, which might be a shame.
When it came time to look at these class bonuses, this one did seem quite good, on paper. In reality, due to the staggered progression, you are, at best, getting a bit of extra variety, in a power level that is roughly 3 levels behind where the groups current power level is. That is valuable, to be sure, but it actually is only working to alleviate the second concern, while still living in the constraints of the first.
Now, that said, you might not agree. If you are the GM, you are free to work with your group to allow or disallow anything in the game, from this class bonus right up to the ranger class if you want, but there are a lot of fun, new options in this book, and I hope you will take a look.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
The three levels back is misleading, because at over half the character levels the sorcerer is casting the same level spells as the wizard and also gaining TWO spells just one step down from the top level.
And being free to allow or disallow stuff is fine. I did it all the time with WotC.
But having the lead designer say that publishing unbalanced material is no big deal because it can just be disallowed is another thing altogether.
Now, since some people here seem to be afraid of 7 known 8th-level spells and 4 9th-level spells (Bloodline spells included) at 20th level, I would like to point out that a Wizard which have not invested any money on scrolls can know 4 8th-level spells and 8 9th-level spells at 20th level (or other combinations, like 7 8th-level spells and 5 9th-level spells or 6 8th-level spells and 6 9th-level spells). With a little effort, more of them. With MagicMart, all of them.
Spells known is not intended to be a balance issue for wizards.
For people who compare this bonus with others, well, we only have seen the Elf Wizard and the Gnome Bard. While I'm not overwhelmend by the Elf Wizard ability (but it's true that it gives more uses to an existing ability, which - again - is not the same thing for the Human Sorcerer, which has the same allowance of spells per day, only more variety), I would like to point out that the Gnome Bard favored class bonus is equivalent to 3 feats (Extra Performance taken three times), more than the Toughness feat (20 hp over 20 levels).
And the Gnome Bard ability struck me as a no-brainer when I read it. It may not be broken, but it can't reasonably be defended from accusations of power creep. To me, all power creep should be avoided to every extent possible.
If the other new options are hold up against the human sorcerer, that doesn't make the human sorcerer any better, it just makes the lurching forward of power that much worse.
And for people who say that the Sorcerer favored class bonus is equivalent to 20 feats (Extra spell), I would like to point out that the feat was not 3.5 Core but from a splatbook. Some people could know it, some people would allow it, but for those without the book (or with a GM who would not allow it), the ability is not worth 20 feats - since there are NO such feats.
That is a silly argument. The core system is the same. I know how extra spell fit into the system when it was used before.
How many feats should a favored class ability be worth? Is 15 ok? 10? 5?
I personally like it very much - the Wizard is still ahead, but the Human Sorcerer can fill some gaps. And we don't even know other Favored class abilities - who knows what the Half-orc Barbarian (more rage rounds ?), Dwarf Fighter (...really dunno), Human Monk (extra ki points ?) would gain ? Before jumping at conclusions, I would say 'let's see the whole book'.
Again, it may be weak compared to the whole book for all I know. I'm not interested in comparing the book to itself. I'm interested in comparing the book to core. There is no conclusions which need to be jumped to, the core is known.
Hell, the core is criticized for being incompatible with old 3X stuff because of the power increases. Pushing the boundaries fast and hard will do nothing but alienate more potential fans.
Ok, you don't see power creep. Noted.
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Director of Game Design
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But having the lead designer say that publishing unbalanced material is no big deal because it can just be disallowed is another thing altogether.
That is actually not at all what I said and I resent the mischaracterization. At the end of the day, balance is a matter of perspective. I have no issue at all with this favored class bonus. Is it good, yes, is it too good, no. You and your GM might disagree. You have my permission to do so. It is your game. I may have written it and developed it, but I cannot come and force you to play my way, nor would I want to. So, with that comes the permission to do with the game what you will. If you think it is too good, feel free to change it.
That is what I am saying. I do not think it is broken. But, if you do, you can change it or outright disallow it. There is no way my idea of balanced is going to be the same as 50,000 other people. I have come to terms with that. Everyone else needs to as well.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
::Cancels his top secret plot to show up unexpectedly at JB's place::
I disagree that it is a mischaracterization.
Yeah, balance is most certainly a matter of perspective.
But we are not simply asking "is the sorcerer still under the level of completely broken?" we are asking "is this an equivalent power to gaining 1 hp per level?"
Here is a question for you: Using whatever your Extra Spell feat is, how close to the same would these two characters come out:
Sorcerer A takes your new favored class ability and Toughness and spends the rest of his feats however he sees fit.
Sorcerer B takes +1 HP/level and spends all his feats on Extra Spells. (not knowing here, but just for the sake of argument assume the GM permits taking the feat multiple times)
Are they roughly equivalent?
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Sorcerer A takes your new favored class ability and Toughness and spends the rest of his feats however he sees fit.
Sorcerer B takes +1 HP/level and spends all his feats on Extra Spells. (not knowing here, but just for the sake of argument assume the GM permits taking the feat multiple times)Are they roughly equivalent?
I'd change that question as such:
Sorcerer A takes the new favored class ability and toughness and spends the rest of his feats however he sees fit.
Sorcerer B takes +1HP/level and spends one feat on whatever the new 'extra spells'-type feat is.
Are they roughly equivalent?
I disagree that it is a mischaracterization.
Yeah, balance is most certainly a matter of perspective.
But we are not simply asking "is the sorcerer still under the level of completely broken?" we are asking "is this an equivalent power to gaining 1 hp per level?"
At first through third levels, this ability might as well not exist.
At fourth level, I'm trying to decide if -1 hp is worth taking my 4th-most-wanted 1st level spell. It probably is.
At fifth level, I'm trying to decide if -1 hp is worth my sixth-most-wanted spell. I don't think it would be.
At sixth level, I'm trying to decide if it's worth -1 hp to get my 3rd-most-wanted second-level spell. Oh, definitely.
At seventh level, it's now -1 hp for my fifth-most-wanted spell. I'm not so sure.
Are you seeing the pattern here?
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I generally give my sorcerer's good con and at least passable int, and couple that with being human the HP and skill points options aren't the most pressing for me. (Cha > Con > Dex > Int > Str == Wis).
That said, I could see that playing a sorcerer I would likely take this option half or less of the time. I would probably take a mix of skill points (to fill in skills with one rank for the class bonus) and hit points (if I was having a hard time with getting targeted, or rolling bad HP), using this bonus only to fill in the occasional spell that would be "really nice, sometimes" or that fit the concept.