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This feat seems extremely powerful, to the point that any party that DOESN'T take it is at a serious disadvantage.
Prerequisite(s): Cha 13; base attack bonus +5 or Perform (act, oratory, or sing) 5 ranks.
Benefit: A number of times per day equal to your Charisma bonus, you can let out a battle cry as a swift action. When you do, allies within 30 feet who can hear you gain a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls and a +4 morale bonus on saving throws against fear. This effect lasts for 1 minute.
If an ally is under the effect of this feat and fails a saving throw, she can choose to end the battle cry's effect on her to reroll the failed save. The ally must take the result of the reroll, even if it's lower. Each ally can use this effect only once per use of this feat.
The ability to reroll every important failed save seems like it majorly changes the game. Is there any reason why every single party shouldn't grab this feat ASAP?
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I'm pretty sure that's only meant for saves against fear.
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I'm pretty sure that's only meant for saves against fear.
That would definitely make it a whole lot more reasonable - but as written, the reroll applies to any save.
This is a powerful feat, though one not every class can easily take. It's kind of like instantly having a bard in your party. Of course, if you do have bard this feat is far less than useful. Paladin and oracle immediately strike me as those who benefit best from this, at least until Paizo creates an evangelist oracle archetype.
It actually stacks with Inspire Courage - Inspire Courage is a competence bonus, Battle Cry is a morale bonus. It doesn't stack with Bless, though.
I'm pretty sure that's only meant for saves against fear.
Do you think that because it's how it reads to you, or because you want there to be a reason for every party to not have this feat?
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It would make sense for Swashbucklers too.
I'm tossing my hat into the ' vs fear ' saves for rerolls as well.
its fear saves
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I'm pretty sure that's only meant for saves against fear.Do you think that because it's how it reads to you, or because you want there to be a reason for every party to not have this feat?
It's more because it has another effect regarding saves and that effect is a +4 to fear saves, plus it would make sense for a rallying war cry to allow a reroll on a fear save but not for, say, a reflex save to fall into a pit.
It is extremely powerful as written currently. Expect that to change.
RumpinRufus, it doesn't stack with inspire courage. Inspire courage grants a competence bonus to attack and weapon damage rolls, but the bonus to saving throws against fear and charm is a morale bonus.
It definitely applies to all saves, there is no other logical way to read it.
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I read it as all saves, too. That said, I personally wouldnt build a character expecting it to work that way, as it just supposing to be fear saves and the written text being a mistake is a reasonable inference in context, and I could easily see it getting corrected in an FAQ like Pummeling Charge.
However, I also would take care assuming the written text is wrong just because it makes the feat really powerful. This book is the one that gave us the cape of feinting, after all.
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It's powerful, and it feels like it might be changed to fear saves only. I'm not entirely sure if it's too powerful though. The prerequisites are pretty serious, and a lot of people have been complaining that they don't like SoD/SoS style play. It might be a good addition, rewarding Charisma-heavy builds.
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Nice for a bloodrager, too. Another morale bonus to increase with courageous weapon. And if said BR is half-orc or dwarf (the latter is less likely) he can take mindlessly cruel or zest for battle, too to get a damage bonus every time he uses this.
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I'm pretty sure its only for use against polymorph.
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No, it's obviously only for saves against Perform (act, oratory, or sing). Those are prominently featured in the prerequisites, so even if there isn't any actual indication that the rules work that way, the association is clear.
No more shall MY wine glasses break at the opera!
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It is extremely powerful as written currently. Expect that to change.
Hopefully after they get around to Sacred Geometry. (Or never so that martials can have decent things to.)
It is extremely powerful as written currently. Expect that to change.Hopefully after they get around to Sacred Geometry. (Or never so that martials can have decent things to.)
I hadn't heard of sacred geometry until recently. And then i saw it, and saw someone made a python program to do the calculations for it. Personally, I would say that you can't have any tables, or assistance for the feat, you have to do it by hand, within a minute, or you fail. Or maybe just make it an INT d20 check that has to exceed (15+double modified spell level). If that seemed too easy, I'd make it higher.
Even if the saving through reroll isn't limited to fear, it's still only one saving throw during the minute:
If an ally is under the effect of this feat and fails a saving throw, she can choose to end the battle cry's effect on her to reroll the failed save. The ally must take the result of the reroll, even if it's lower. Each ally can use this effect only once per use of this feat.
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Definitely not the best feat in the game. Probably not even the best feat in that book. Extremely good though. I'd expect it to see power-level errata with the direction the team has been taking lately. They don't want the game to power bloat too quickly, so I expect to see a change at some point. I will run it as written until that occurs.
Sacred Geometry is a headache of a feat on the other hand.
I hadn't heard of sacred geometry until recently. And then i saw it, and saw someone made a python program to do the calculations for it. Personally, I would say that you can't have any tables, or assistance for the feat, you have to do it by hand, within a minute, or you fail. Or maybe just make it an INT d20 check that has to exceed (15+double modified spell level). If that seemed too easy, I'd make it higher.It is extremely powerful as written currently. Expect that to change.Hopefully after they get around to Sacred Geometry. (Or never so that martials can have decent things to.)
Have a read through some of the threads here, or especially on GiTP. Even without electronic aids, hitting the target numbers is very easy once you know how easily you can dispose of unneeded dice. With a tiny bit of practice, most players will be able to solve the roll in that 60 second limit without any problem at all. Which means the feat is just free metamagic without any actual cost.
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Its a good feat and really fits the theme of a warrior-type character inspiring his or her allies.
While powerful, remember that Battle Cry requires a character to be at least lv 5 to really access it. So it is more of a mid-level feat. And at lv 5 it competes with many other great feats, forcing player to make a decision.
Also, "best feat in the game"? Really? Compared to Leadership?
My first thought upon seeing this feat was "Time to grab a cohort with this ability".
Have a read through some of the threads here, or especially on GiTP. Even without electronic aids, hitting the target numbers is very easy once you know how easily you can dispose of unneeded dice. With a tiny bit of practice, most players will be able to solve the roll in that 60 second limit without any problem at all. Which means the feat is just free metamagic without any actual cost.
Great, make it 30 seconds then. Or 15. Or even the 6 seconds the character gets in the combat round. Whatever makes it not just "free metamagic".
Have a read through some of the threads here, or especially on GiTP. Even without electronic aids, hitting the target numbers is very easy once you know how easily you can dispose of unneeded dice. With a tiny bit of practice, most players will be able to solve the roll in that 60 second limit without any problem at all. Which means the feat is just free metamagic without any actual cost.Great, make it 30 seconds then. Or 15. Or even the 6 seconds the character gets in the combat round. Whatever makes it not just "free metamagic".I assume you make it 6 seconds to roll your attack roll and add it together too.
At that point you're just violating the don't be a jerk rule. If the sacred geometry player can do sacred geometry faster than the other caster can add fireball damage or the power attacking barbarian can add damage up you've passed the reasonable realm.
As I said, whatever it takes to make it not free. You have to have a chance to fail to make the numbers, and not because you don't have sufficient numbers. If you have rainman in your group, maybe its 1 second.
I assume you hold your hasted full attackers to equally mathematically stringent standards so they lose their attack rolls if they don't give you all the numbers in sub 6 seconds.
EDIT: If you don't like the feat ban it. Don't be a dick about it's execution.
Someone said 60 seconds was enough time to easily make the numbers. As I also said, maybe just an INT check since its the character doing the math not the player would make more sense.
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Not trying to be the thread police here, but it might be more helpful to the OP if the discussion returned to Battle Cry rather than Sacred Geometrey?
Keeping combat running quickly takes precedence imo. That extra time spent waiting for someone to calculate on their own is extra time everyone else is sitting around doing nothing.I agree but my point is. What if the sacred geometry player at level 7 takes less time to give you the numbers than the 7th level fighter does for his hasted full attack?
If you have a mathematician in the group who takes less time calculating SG than a fighter to full attack tell me what you'd do for it.
Someone said 60 seconds was enough time to easily make the numbers. As I also said, maybe just an INT check since its the character doing the math not the player would make more sense.If you want it to be a check make it 20+spell level increased to engineering check since it's pretty darn clear that it's engineering based (That's how many dice you get). That way it's not free and not easy until high levels. That way a quickened magic missile is DC 25 engineering to cast. That's no small check and it's much harder to do than the actual math.
I'd stick to my 15+double modified spell level int check instead. Easier to do low level stuff, a lot harder to get a high check for 9th level spells.
Undone: I was looking at it from the opposite perspective. I think it is good that martial classes get good things. My opinion stems from the fact that it is a combat feat with a BAB requirement.
It is also somewhat redundant for a Bard/Skald.
Bards and by extension Skalds have access to several spells that give morale bonus. Furthermore, the Flag Bearer feat (often taken by Bards due to the bonus they receive) gives a morale bonus.
Fighters, for example, do not have a means of giving themselves or others said bonus.
I am actually happy that it is not so limited. Actually, I would sort of prefer that it be more limited for non-Bard, non-Skald type classes and less limited for martials if anything.
