General Discussion: Kineticist


Rules Discussion

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Mark Seifter wrote:
mplindustries wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
At this point, I'm feeling there might not be a meeting during this stage, so if we don't have one by the end of the week, I'll almost certainly post some maybes on Friday.

Any chance of you pushing those up to Thursday? That's my last session before Christmas :D

I'm appreciative of anything we get, though, truly.

Maybe, we'll see what I can do. Definitely not Wednesday though. Also, don't necessarily expect the post mortem to be specific enough for you to use much without at least extrapolating, so it may not give you much without working with your GM.

I get it. He's willing to work with me--we already agreed on 4 skill points and he lets me create water at speeds less than "firehose."

I'll show him whatever you can tell us and he generally trusts me to extrapolate correctly.

I want to play the Kineticist now because, though, I'm sure there's lots of awesome stuff coming, the Hydrokineticist feels fairly "complete" now, at least as far as stuff I care to do is concerned, so, minor updates to damage, costs, and availability of wild talents should be sufficient. My first character after Occult Adventures is published, though, will definitely be a Medium--that really does not feel quite so playable for long with less than half of the spirits available.


I'm happy to hear even speculation at this point, but I do have an interesting question...

If they DON'T have the meeting, is anything you post here even possibly going to happen?

In other words, if there is no meeting, there are two possible stances by the bosses. "We trust your judgement and will let you make any necessary changes to the class." or "We trust our judgement and don't want to hear anything else on the matter."

Which one feels more likely if the meeting is not held?

Designer

There was a playtest, so there will be changes.

If there is no meeting, it'll mean that the way everyone's time works, it's more efficient for me to just make all my changes and have the class sitting there with all the sparkly new changes, and then we'll have a meeting at a later stage. If that's the case, it greatly increases the chances of any changes, since they'd be included already and need to be changed again.


Mark, in regards to another thread written on the topic of Kineticists, have you given any thought to lesser elemental effects such as starting a camp fire, chilling a mug, creating a comforting breeze, etc? I guess they'd almost be like cantrips in a way.

For the record, I'm guessing you have but is there any chance we will see something like it in the final product?

Thanks.


Aaron Scott 139 wrote:

Mark, in regards to another thread written on the topic of Kineticists, have you given any thought to lesser elemental effects such as starting a camp fire, chilling a mug, creating a comforting breeze, etc? I guess they'd almost be like cantrips in a way.

For the record, I'm guessing you have but is there any chance we will see something like it in the final product?

Thanks.

Even a flat utility (Along the lines of Prestidigitation as relates to your elements, or the ability to cast any cantrip or orison with your element's descriptor as a standard action) would give flavor, if a scaling non-combat utility wasn't possible.

Mark Seifter wrote:

There was a playtest, so there will be changes.

If there is no meeting, it'll mean that the way everyone's time works, it's more efficient for me to just make all my changes and have the class sitting there with all the sparkly new changes, and then we'll have a meeting at a later stage. If that's the case, it greatly increases the chances of any changes, since they'd be included already and need to be changed again.

Woot! That's excellent news. Fingers crossed for you, you've done a great job with this whole playtest and class so far.

Designer

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Alright, post mortem time:

As I mentioned earlier but may have been lost in the playtest, since this class is so different than any other, I took this as an opportunity to crowdsource all your brains into breaking my design, and thus I started purposely more modest so I wouldn't have to pull back too much if you guys found something I did not. Good news! I pretty much found everything in my mental stress tests that you did during the playtest. This gives me an amazing amount of peace of mind, and it allows me to pull onward, upward, and towards ever more cool stuff!

Here's some bullet points of stuff that I'm working on. Will it make it into the final? We'll have to see. I'm still tinkering, and there are many more people who will have it in their hands before the end.

*4 skill points per level, and Acrobatics: I'm not even sure how Acrobatics got removed; I'm seeing it in my earlier draft

*New wild talents: Basically a whole bunch more options, especially with regards to fun stuff other than damage, and it's good that there will be more because—

*More total wild talents known: Being forced to pick up tons of Extra ZZ feats isn't a good balancing point for a class. As I said throughout the process, I would rather just give you more and limit the power of the Extra ZZ feat so that you have what you need and the extra really feels like icing and not a feat tax to play the class.

*Expanded Element as a class feature: If you want to pick the same element every time, you can pick up a special boost on the second Expanded Element, and you get something each time, as you'll see in the next bullet point.

*Basic ZZ wild talents: One for each element, with some simple effects you can do. You get your primary element's version for free at 1st, and your expanded element's for free when you pick up expanded (the solo element person can potentially pick up a more powerful wild talent instead)

*Gather even more power!: Gather power gets more fearsome. Potential current version allows you to choose to spend 1 full round gathering power for even greater effects (2 point reduction, stacks with a move on the next turn for 3). At 11th level, both of these increase, for a total of 5 if you do both.

*Flexible infusion specialization: Want to throw a crazy form one round and a mighty substance the next? By reverting to the original infusion specialization, I have you covered. Same progression, but it just applies to whichever infusions you use without having to pick one type or the other. It doesn't reduce both by 1 when you have it at 1 for a total of 2, of course; the total cost goes down by 1.

*Overhauled feel the burn, named "elemental overflow" for now: Not only do you get twice as much damage out of it as before, but the elemental essence within you grants you size bonuses to physical attributes that you get to divide as you like (perhaps your deal is sand, so you get more Dex than usual for earth; who am I to judge?) The elemental form wild talents will still exist but give you less stuff (not the size bonuses for one) and probably not cost burn, with a cool thematic (imagine your quasi-aqueous body floating inside a glowing mass of tendrilled water, for instance).

*Internal buffer: an extremely small (we're talking maybe 3 at most, ever) buffer that doesn't refill on its own but lets you accept burn to fill it and then use it to ignore 1 of the burn of an effect (so spending the buffer doesn't help you gain overflow, but it allows you to do more in 1 round than you could before, since you ignore the burn)

Thanks to all of you for all your time, effort, and enthusiasm! Without you, I could have never made the kineticist class as awesome as it will be. I can't wait for August. Can you?


YEA! Thanks a lot Mark!

It's still sad that I can't apply the skill point + Acrobatics point to PFS right now, but that and everything else brings a load off my mind that this class is gonna be awesome in August.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

Elemental overflow looks really neat. Can't wait to see the final product!


sounds like you're making burn a bit more worthwhile (between the reductions on input and the bonuses on output), and the extra wild talents and changes to elemental form will certainly help folks feel less pigeonholed in their builds.

definitely digging the gather power changes.

all in all, i approve. i'm definitely looking forward to the final version when it's released.


Based on that run down I can see we're all seemingly on the right page! My biggest concerns were lack of basic stuff, element favoritism, Expanded Element as Wild Talents instead of a class feature, and infusion specialization were some of my larger concerns which you addressed in a strong manner with that post.

Now my biggest worry is that you are planning to keep Spell Resistance as a limiting factor for Kineticists.

Hope everything goes well :)


Mark Seifter wrote:

Alright, post mortem time:

As I mentioned earlier but may have been lost in the playtest, since this class is so different than any other, I took this as an opportunity to crowdsource all your brains into breaking my design, and thus I started purposely more modest so I wouldn't have to pull back too much if you guys found something I did not. Good news! I pretty much found everything in my mental stress tests that you did during the playtest. This gives me an amazing amount of peace of mind, and it allows me to pull onward, upward, and towards ever more cool stuff!

Here's some bullet points of stuff that I'm working on. Will it make it into the final? We'll have to see. I'm still tinkering, and there are many more people who will have it in their hands before the end.

*4 skill points per level, and Acrobatics: I'm not even sure how Acrobatics got removed; I'm seeing it in my earlier draft

*New wild talents: Basically a whole bunch more options, especially with regards to fun stuff other than damage, and it's good that there will be more because—

*More total wild talents known: Being forced to pick up tons of Extra ZZ feats isn't a good balancing point for a class. As I said throughout the process, I would rather just give you more and limit the power of the Extra ZZ feat so that you have what you need and the extra really feels like icing and not a feat tax to play the class.

*Expanded Element as a class feature: If you want to pick the same element every time, you can pick up a special boost on the second Expanded Element, and you get something each time, as you'll see in the next bullet point.

*Basic ZZ wild talents: One for each element, with some simple effects you can do. You get your primary element's version for free at 1st, and your expanded element's for free when you pick up expanded (the solo element person can potentially pick up a more powerful wild talent instead)

*Gather even more power!: Gather power gets more fearsome....

I was starting to get worried, but all my hype for this class is back with a VENGEANCE. Well played, Mr. Seifter!

Liberty's Edge

Sounds good Mark, though a few things I am not seeing mentioned that I think should be integral to the class:

Basic Elemental Command: Abilities, ranging in power from minor/cantrips to greater spells/spell like abilities. This way a Pyro kineticist can actually manipulate flames in smaller ways than blowing things up or nothing at all.

Elemental Resistance: Every type of elemental kineticist should get energy resistance to their type that increases with level. Perhaps it could be tied in to their defense or maybe into Feel the Burn.

Elemental attacks: I feel that every type of kineticist should have a physical attack option (B/P/S) and an energy type option (as they already have certain energies associated to each element). I also belive that not only should the character get the additional attack type for free as a class feature, it should come earlier in their career than 7th... playtesting a Kineticist in PFS from level 1 to Level 7, having only a cold attack for 6 levels was brutally limiting. Just limit the hybrid blasts to a certain level.

Supernatural instead of Spell Like Ability: This I think is essential, first off "Occult" ties in to "Supernatural" far better than "Spell Like", in my opinion, but also it removes an unneeded additional defense the class must face and opens up a lot of options against creatures outright immune to spells, but not to supernatural effects. It also makes the class more of a physical projector than a variant spell slinger.

As for burn, I still don't like it but, meh. The name is still poor because there is a specific variant that does indeed burn things. How about calling it "Surge"? Don't think any other class ability has that name and then you could use "Ride the Surge" or "Harness the Surge" or even "Focused Surge" in place of "Feel the Burn/Elemental Overflow". With the idea that a Kineticist can surge with energy to bolster their abilities.

Still, it looks promising, I can't wait to see how it actually performs... and will have my level 7 Kin on the shelf in PFS until these changes are released ;)

Designer

Basic Elemental Command: Specifically listed in post mortem

Elemental Resistance: Likely an optional wild talent for fire, water, and air. I do have it penciled in.


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Mark Seifter wrote:


*Gather even more power!: Gather power gets more fearsome. Potential current version allows you to choose to spend 1 full round gathering power for even greater effects (2 point reduction, stacks with a move on the next turn for 3). At 11th level, both of these increase, for a total of 5 if you do both.

*Full-Round Action* KAMEHA-

*Move Action* -ME-
*Standard Action* -HA!


Well I am happy that we should be getting 4+int skills and having acrobatics as a class skill makes sense.

Designer

Deadbeat Doom wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:


*Gather even more power!: Gather power gets more fearsome. Potential current version allows you to choose to spend 1 full round gathering power for even greater effects (2 point reduction, stacks with a move on the next turn for 3). At 11th level, both of these increase, for a total of 5 if you do both.

*Full-Round Action* KAMEHA-

*Move Action* -ME-
*Standard Action* -HA!

Careful there Deadbeat; I'm not going to take that sitting down!

/Tries to smack Deadbeat during the full round of charging to make him take burn because of being a nasty fellow


These are excellent news! Great job, Mark.

Liberty's Edge

Mark Seifter wrote:

Basic Elemental Command: Specifically listed in post mortem

Not exactly what I meant, but perhaps it will be more in line after the final product is in front of us to see it all.


Mark Seifter wrote:

Careful there Deadbeat; I'm not going to take that sitting down!

/Tries to smack Deadbeat during the full round of charging to make him take burn because of being a nasty fellow

So would that make your Elemental Overflow bonus your Kaioken level?

If I yell while charging, would that slow down time?

Ducks


Cool update, especially with Elemental Overflow (I really wanted to be a sand-elemental).

Edit: Any idea how many talents a 20th level kineticist would have from just levels?


Excellent. Right now the biggest damage boost feels like the ability to spend more burn at a time, which for me means I'll be seeing a lot of AOE effects that I wouldn't otherwise have messed with. It does bring up the "nova vs normal" boundary issue, where the basic move action attack isn't useful, but with the burn reduction methods listed we should have an easier time nova'ing more often, and eventually we cap out on damage increasing novas and have to use the extra free burn points for sub/form. So ultimately, the nova attack will become more standard, more free, and the true "Nova" effect of burning yourself up for damage will become adding AOE and a powerful substance like the theorized Pure Flame. I think I like that. I could get used to dealing the upped damage of adding Maximized to my regular attack after a while. I could get used to that a lot, and surprisingly it doesn't feel as overpowered when it doesn't come online till later levels, or uses two rounds to go off.

I do hope the ooc utility becomes everything it deserves, but if not there's always flavoring my successful lock pick as freezing and breaking the lock, since I now have enough skill points to actually *have* a skill for that.

The extra details are awesome, and I'm very much in anticipation of the final class. :)

And yes, I agree WHOLEHEARTEDLY and say a major thank you for the way you handled the Kinetic Form problem. :)


So Mark...will there be other options besides the four basic elements and Aether ? or is that the foundation for the time being ???

Designer

nighttree wrote:
So Mark...will there be other options besides the four basic elements and Aether ? or is that the foundation for the time being ???

When my choice would be between more elements that have to shoehorn mostly the same wild talents or more wild talents for the elements we have and then more elements in later books with all the wild talents they deserve, my choice is clear!

At least to me.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Yeah, definitely looking forward to August. I wish I could say I can't wait, but lacking the resources for time travel and the lack of money to invest in cryogenics, I think I'm going to have to. We'll just have to wait and see how many of these potential changes make it through, as well as what further evolutions they might go through, but it looks like the end result will be a very fun class. Here's hoping!

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Awwww yissssss.


Mark Seifter wrote:

Alright, post mortem time:

As I mentioned earlier but may have been lost in the playtest, since this class is so different than any other, I took this as an opportunity to crowdsource all your brains into breaking my design, and thus I started purposely more modest so I wouldn't have to pull back too much if you guys found something I did not. Good news! I pretty much found everything in my mental stress tests that you did during the playtest. This gives me an amazing amount of peace of mind, and it allows me to pull onward, upward, and towards ever more cool stuff!

Here's some bullet points of stuff that I'm working on. Will it make it into the final? We'll have to see. I'm still tinkering, and there are many more people who will have it in their hands before the end.

*4 skill points per level, and Acrobatics: I'm not even sure how Acrobatics got removed; I'm seeing it in my earlier draft

*New wild talents: Basically a whole bunch more options, especially with regards to fun stuff other than damage, and it's good that there will be more because—

*More total wild talents known: Being forced to pick up tons of Extra ZZ feats isn't a good balancing point for a class. As I said throughout the process, I would rather just give you more and limit the power of the Extra ZZ feat so that you have what you need and the extra really feels like icing and not a feat tax to play the class.

*Expanded Element as a class feature: If you want to pick the same element every time, you can pick up a special boost on the second Expanded Element, and you get something each time, as you'll see in the next bullet point.

*Basic ZZ wild talents: One for each element, with some simple effects you can do. You get your primary element's version for free at 1st, and your expanded element's for free when you pick up expanded (the solo element person can potentially pick up a more powerful wild talent instead)

*Gather even more power!: Gather power gets more fearsome....

This just sounds perfect! The only thing I would wish to know more about, is the new wild talents. I need to try and not hype this up too much in my head, but I'm really excited to play this class. I just hope I get a chance to do so.


I guess Spell Resistance is so on the table that it doesn't even need a mention?


I don't tend to shift sizes all that much, so how much would gaining size bonuses through elemental overflow help out?

Would you grow and make your Dex worse? Shrink and Dex better? Just curious really.


Third Mind wrote:

I don't tend to shift sizes all that much, so how much would gaining size bonuses through elemental overflow help out?

Would you grow and make your Dex worse? Shrink and Dex better? Just curious really.

I don't think your size changes, with the bonuses being size bonuses just so they don't stack with elemental body and similar abilities.


Milo v3 wrote:
I don't think your size changes, with the bonuses being size bonuses just so they don't stack with elemental body and similar abilities.

My bad. It's what I meant, but still wrote the wrong way. In any event, what kind of bonuses (number wise) could one achieve with this tweak? Can you gain Dex from it? Or is it only STR as if you've used Enlarge Person without enlarging?


Yes. For instance, the spell Elemental Body IV can turn you into a huge air elemental which gets +4 size bonus to strength and +6 size bonus to dexterity. Like me you're probably just used to size bonus = + str, - dex.


Third Mind wrote:
Milo v3 wrote:
I don't think your size changes, with the bonuses being size bonuses just so they don't stack with elemental body and similar abilities.
My bad. It's what I meant, but still wrote the wrong way. In any event, what kind of bonuses (number wise) could one achieve with this tweak? Can you gain Dex from it? Or is it only STR as if you've used Enlarge Person without enlarging?

Mark specifically said that you get to choose where the size bonus goes and can be split up between strength and dexterity as you desire.

"grants you size bonuses to physical attributes that you get to divide as you like (perhaps your deal is sand, so you get more Dex than usual for earth; who am I to judge?) "


Mark Seifter wrote:


*Overhauled feel the burn, named "elemental overflow" for now: Not only do you get twice as much damage out of it as before, but the elemental essence within you grants you size bonuses to physical attributes that you get to divide as you like (perhaps your deal is sand, so you get more Dex than usual for earth; who am I to judge?) The elemental form wild talents will still exist but give you less stuff (not the size bonuses for one) and probably not cost burn, with a cool thematic (imagine your quasi-aqueous body floating inside a glowing mass of tendrilled water, for instance).

So I'm a little confused here:

Since we now get size bonuses, does that mean we are forced to change in size as we accumulate burn?


Harrison wrote:


So I'm a little confused here:

Since we now get size bonuses, does that mean we are forced to change in size as we accumulate burn?

I believe it's just a size bonus so that that it doesn't stack with elemental body and alter self, and similar effects. It wouldn't actually change your size.


Mark Seifter wrote:
*More total wild talents known: Being forced to pick up tons of Extra ZZ feats isn't a good balancing point for a class. As I said throughout the process, I would rather just give you more and limit the power of the Extra ZZ feat so that you have what you need and the extra really feels like icing and not a feat tax to play the class.

Excellent. So, I am taking this to mean a talent every level, since there's not a lot of other patterns that make sense. I am guessing you alternate between infusions and utility talents, but obviously, nothing to go on.

Mark Seifter wrote:

*Expanded Element as a class feature: If you want to pick the same element every time, you can pick up a special boost on the second Expanded Element, and you get something each time, as you'll see in the next bullet point.

*Basic ZZ wild talents: One for each element, with some simple effects you can do. You get your primary element's version for free at 1st, and your expanded element's for free when you pick up expanded (the solo element person can potentially pick up a more powerful wild talent instead)

If we ever earn back the right to see some previews, as a hydrokineticist intending to just stick to water, I'd love to see some of this stuff.

Mark Seifter wrote:
*Gather even more power!: Gather power gets more fearsome. Potential current version allows you to choose to spend 1 full round gathering power for even greater effects (2 point reduction, stacks with a move on the next turn for 3). At 11th level, both of these increase, for a total of 5 if you do both.

That's really awesome. So, that's kind of a stealth damage boost, actually, since our normal full rounds now can go:

1-4: Regular blast
5-10: Empowered blast
1-14: Composite blast
15-18: Empowered Composite blast
19-20: Maximized Composite blast

Beautiful.

Mark Seifter wrote:
*Flexible infusion specialization: Want to throw a crazy form one round and a mighty substance the next? By reverting to the original infusion specialization, I have you covered. Same progression, but it just applies to whichever infusions you use without having to pick one type or the other. It doesn't reduce both by 1 when you have it at 1 for a total of 2, of course; the total cost goes down by 1.

This is just a fantastic change that finally (or I guess, again) allows us to use both forms and substances!

Mark Seifter wrote:
*Overhauled feel the burn, named "elemental overflow" for now: Not only do you get twice as much damage out of it as before, but the elemental essence within you grants you size bonuses to physical attributes that you get to divide as you like (perhaps your deal is sand, so you get more Dex than usual for earth; who am I to judge?) The elemental form wild talents will still exist but give you less stuff (not the size bonuses for one) and probably not cost burn, with a cool thematic (imagine your quasi-aqueous body floating inside a glowing mass of tendrilled water, for instance).

I love every bit of this. No more mandatory Kinetic Form, but now I can keep the stat buffs. Jeez, it's almost like you actually listened to what we wanted. ;)

Mark Seifter wrote:
*Internal buffer: an extremely small (we're talking maybe 3 at most, ever) buffer that doesn't refill on its own but lets you accept burn to fill it and then use it to ignore 1 of the burn of an effect (so spending the buffer doesn't help you gain overflow, but it allows you to do more in 1 round than you could before, since you ignore the burn)

Eh, ok, so, I kind of don't care about this one much at all. You have to take Burn to fill the meter, so, the way I see it, there's one of three possibilities here:

1) It clears over night and so, I'll never use it because, frankly, I can't figure out the benefit of it in this case

2) It doesn't clear overnight, so, I'm going to fill the meter every night before I go to bed and have, essentially, 1-3 free Burn every day that I'll probably never use because it's a limited resource and I'll always be worried I'll need it more later like I am with just about every daily resource.

3) I absolutely don't understand how this works at all.

But, really, every other point you've addressed is great and I'm thrilled. Excellent job.

Now, I just need to work with my GM about how the hell Mythic stuff will interact with Kineticist.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps Subscriber

I have to agree with MPL on all of his points. Including the internal buffer. I personally thinking giving 1 - 3 points of "free" burn would be enough to balance the hp concerns that a number of posters have had, though I am not sure if this addresses that or may be another method of compensation. I wonder if having a scaling tank of burn that you take but don't apply would help but at 10+ just removing the need for the 2 for Kinetic Form saves me several burn.

I think the damage scaling may need another look, primarily at the level 4-5 mark and the level 10-11 mark, as these are common tiers in PFS yet have very drastic differences in power level. My feeling is that these abilities should not come at the same level as dice increases, perhaps giving Empower at level 4 and the boost to the move action ability at level 10.

In fact most of these changes occur at odd levels which produces severed damage spikes at those breakpoints which could be smoothed. One option would be to give 1d6 at 1, 2d6 at 2 and 1d6 every even level thereafter and put wild talents at the odd levels. This might make second level very strong but smooth out the levels as most of the major break points don't coincide with a base damage increase.

Please talk to John and Mike about adding a couple of these changes to PFS for the duration until the book comes out. I suggest the skill points, Acrobatics as a class skill and doubling the damage of feel the burn could make these characters that are in play now more viable and the other changes will come up once the book is published. I also think these would be easiest to implement and, discounting some of the more distressed players, no one should complain about getting a little boost in damage and some more skill points.


Tonlim wrote:
Yes. For instance, the spell Elemental Body IV can turn you into a huge air elemental which gets +4 size bonus to strength and +6 size bonus to dexterity. Like me you're probably just used to size bonus = + str, - dex.

Ah that makes sense. Thanks. Well. It seems if I'm going to be playing Earth and want to lob bits of earth at people, it would indeed be prudent to pick up Air or Fire to get some added help in the accuracy insurance department.

Very interesting indeed.


Third Mind wrote:
Tonlim wrote:
Yes. For instance, the spell Elemental Body IV can turn you into a huge air elemental which gets +4 size bonus to strength and +6 size bonus to dexterity. Like me you're probably just used to size bonus = + str, - dex.

Ah that makes sense. Thanks. Well. It seems if I'm going to be playing Earth and want to lob bits of earth at people, it would indeed be prudent to pick up Air or Fire to get some added help in the accuracy insurance department.

Very interesting indeed.

But, you can get dex from Earth. He listed that as an example...


Those changes will surely make the class much more fun to play. I would, still, take a look at the feat issue. Most combat oriented classes can gain bonus feats, and the kineticist is certainly combat oriented. I realize that with many features filling the levels of the class, it becomes somewhat difficult to place bonus feats.
I suggest this then: Create a combat style enabling wild talent. Something like some revelations from oracle that give proficiencies and fixed feats, or like the tricks from rogue and ninja. One advanced ninja trick gives Unarmed combat similar to a monk of half level. If this could be achieved by spending a wild talent, it would be great.


can a kineticist use his abilities if he is polymorphed into an animal , whether this be intentional (such as wild shape) or unintentional (baleful polymorph)?

Shadow Lodge

My PFS Playtest Geokineticist will most likely hit L7 by the end of the month. Merry GeoChristmastist!

My gameplan is to get him to L8 or L9 and park him until the book comes out and then slowtrack play him for 9-12 scenarios.

I really do hope some of the current changes (Acrobatics, skill points, FTB bump) could be implemented into PFS play.

I also hope that when the book is released, retraining rules and costs for the abilities are released simultaneously--not a month later like in the case of ACG.

Finally, Mark, how will composite blast be handled? As it stands, there are only certain viable combos of blasts.

Designer

Sammy T wrote:

My PFS Playtest Geokineticist will most likely hit L7 by the end of the month. Merry GeoChristmastist!

My gameplan is to get him to L8 or L9 and park him until the book comes out and then slowtrack play him for 9-12 scenarios.

I really do hope some of the current changes (Acrobatics, skill points, FTB bump) could be implemented into PFS play.

I also hope that when the book is released, retraining rules and costs for the abilities are released simultaneously--not a month later like in the case of ACG.

Finally, Mark, how will composite blast be handled? As it stands, there are only certain viable combos of blasts.

Honestly, I wanted (and originally included) free rebuilds on the boon sheet as the second boon or so. The people who decided to take them off were even more in favor than I was of rebuilds for playtesters, so I expect cheap/free rebuilds for people with the playtest boons come July.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber
mplindustries wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
*Internal buffer: an extremely small (we're talking maybe 3 at most, ever) buffer that doesn't refill on its own but lets you accept burn to fill it and then use it to ignore 1 of the burn of an effect (so spending the buffer doesn't help you gain overflow, but it allows you to do more in 1 round than you could before, since you ignore the burn)

Eh, ok, so, I kind of don't care about this one much at all. You have to take Burn to fill the meter, so, the way I see it, there's one of three possibilities here:

1) It clears over night and so, I'll never use it because, frankly, I can't figure out the benefit of it in this case

2) It doesn't clear overnight, so, I'm going to fill the meter every night before I go to bed and have, essentially, 1-3 free Burn every day that I'll probably never use because it's a limited resource and I'll always be worried I'll need it more later like I am with just about every daily resource.

3) I absolutely don't understand how this works at all.

I'm reading it more as a burn bank. You deposit some burn into it in the morning, then later you can withdraw that burn and use it to supercharge a blast. Useful if you can't take the move action to gather energy, or you want to add infusions that would put you over your Burn-accepted-at-one-time cap. And it looks like you can recharge the bank with burn if you want to keep it topped off.


I hope the class gets more class skills, the list was way too low especially for a non-spell caster class.

I hope there will be a few bonus feats like point blank shot or precise shot built into the class.

I hope the class gets some more defensive abilities like uncanny dodge, evasion, energy resistance, or extra dodge bonuses to AC(like a monk or swashbuckler).


RexAliquid wrote:
I'm reading it more as a burn bank. You deposit some burn into it in the morning, then later you can withdraw that burn and use it to supercharge a blast. Useful if you can't take the move action to gather energy, or you want to add infusions that would put you over your Burn-accepted-at-one-time cap. And it looks like you can recharge the bank with burn if you want to keep it topped off.

But, it's not actually useful for that. There is no limit to burn accepted at once, only to total burn accepted across the whole day (Con+3). Unless this is changing, of course.

It looks like the only use for it would be if you wanted elemental overflow's bonus at the beginning if the day, but didn't want to spend burn on you elemental defense in the morning. For high level Earth or any level Air, I could definitely see not especially wanting to burn on my defense.

So, yeah, you could, say, "I am going to nova for three burn later today, so, I will spend it now so I get my overflow bonuses." Which makes it a nice option, but not one I will ever use. I never intend to "plan" on novaing--my core strategy will remain constant, consistent power--so, I will surely spend my overflow burn on my defense and maybe some other all day buff we haven't seen yet. I very much dislike paying a long term cost for a short duration benefit (burn for the rest of the day for a single round of power).


mplindustries wrote:
RexAliquid wrote:
I'm reading it more as a burn bank. You deposit some burn into it in the morning, then later you can withdraw that burn and use it to supercharge a blast. Useful if you can't take the move action to gather energy, or you want to add infusions that would put you over your Burn-accepted-at-one-time cap. And it looks like you can recharge the bank with burn if you want to keep it topped off.

But, it's not actually useful for that. There is no limit to burn accepted at once, only to total burn accepted across the whole day (Con+3). Unless this is changing, of course.

Occult Adventures Playtest, Page 4:

A kineticist incapable of suffering nonlethal damage cannot accept burn, and a kineticist can’t choose to accept more than 1 point of burn in a single round. This limit rises to 2 points of burn at 6th level, and it rises by 1 point of burn for every 3 levels thereafter.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

Thanks for the reference, Protoman.

@mpl The buffer is probably not something you will be using, then. But for people who like to go super nova, it is a useful way to increase single round maximum output.


Protoman wrote:
mplindustries wrote:
RexAliquid wrote:
I'm reading it more as a burn bank. You deposit some burn into it in the morning, then later you can withdraw that burn and use it to supercharge a blast. Useful if you can't take the move action to gather energy, or you want to add infusions that would put you over your Burn-accepted-at-one-time cap. And it looks like you can recharge the bank with burn if you want to keep it topped off.

But, it's not actually useful for that. There is no limit to burn accepted at once, only to total burn accepted across the whole day (Con+3). Unless this is changing, of course.

Occult Adventures Playtest, Page 4:

A kineticist incapable of suffering nonlethal damage cannot accept burn, and a kineticist can’t choose to accept more than 1 point of burn in a single round. This limit rises to 2 points of burn at 6th level, and it rises by 1 point of burn for every 3 levels thereafter.

Wow, how did I miss that? I was well aware of the sentence before and after it. Weird. Ok, so, it does that, but if you look as t what you can realistically do, you will actually have a hard time hitting that cap until you get composite blast at 7, and only then if you can't gather energy, but still want to use both a form and a substance on it, or one infusion and empower. The cap is honestly hard to hit, so, I still don't think it's super useful, but as I said, someone that isn't me will like it, I am sure. The rest is wonderful, though.


RexAliquid wrote:
Thanks for the reference, Protoman.

/Whistles theme song and teleports away.

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