StDrake |
There are plans at my place to run a WotW campaign and I volunteered to take part if it goes live, but I'm having a problem choosing a single character concept..and an even bigger one making a build for it. Ive had 3 ideas all of which have a little problem of being on the chaotic side, but that's a thing to make an agreeement with the GM.
One character I was thinking about was an antipaladin with dark lord and that no-spells archetypes, but then another one sprang up that's just too yummy eevil to just pass up like that
- a succubus-like tiefling
Problem is..how to go about building one?
Polishing up the race itself has little to do left - might try to mix a little between abyss and div born (somehow i think the dex might come in more handy), but what class? What feats?
Note a friend of mine also volunteered who likes mages, knowing him probably something illusion-heavy, so that's covered. I was wondering maybe a sorceress or swashbuckler, but maybe you people have some other (or at least more detailed) ideas?
Also, last time the campaign proved darn hard on us, so I won't be ashamed to take any heavy optimisation advice (or spoilers, since ive already been through some of the starting books)
Skylancer4 |
I'd probably go sorcerer or oracle to capitalize on the whole charisma focus. Then head into Souleater PrC. This is mostly thematic, not optimized though. You'd be a highly charismatic caster with the ability to inflict negative levels once a round with a touch attack. And able to collect soul shards for use in crafting or powering your own abilities. Focus on spells to control/incapacitate opponents and drain them. On single tougher creatures you are slowly debuffing saves, BAB and such with every hit. Softening them up for yourself and allies.
williamoak |
- a succubus-like tieflingProblem is..how to go about building one?
Polishing up the race itself has little to do left - might try to mix a little between abyss and div born (somehow i think the dex might come in more handy), but what class? What feats?
I've made succubus-like builds before, more specifically a Div-born Tiefling Bard (lotus geisha archetype). Full charisma focus, with a strong emphasis on enchantment spells, since you get spell focus (enchantment) for free.
The div-born is also fitting, since they are supposed to be exotic and alluring.
As for useful feats for that build:
Noble scion (of war) (cha to ini, to seduce FIRST!)
Lingering performance (for buffage)
As a side-note, the best "seducer/enchanter" in my book is the Kitsune Sorcerer; they get a favored class bonus that boosts enchantment spell DCs.
williamoak |
oh my that archetype does look tempting..no pun intended. Kitsune don't strike me as very fit to play a seducer role, despite the unamusing 1/4 bonus.
Can
that bard excel in anything more than brainwashing?
Certainly-bards are masters of skill, thanks to abilities like "versatile performance" which allows them to use 1 perform skill to replace 2 normal skills (for example, perform (oratory) to replace Diplomacy & sense motive).
They are also great buffers (thanks to inspire courage & others) and the lotus geisha gets an ability that allows it to boost performances given to a single individual.Then again, you ARE playing an evil campaign, so the trustworthiness of your "allies" could be in question...
As for the kitsune thing, that's tied to japanese lore as far as I'm aware; there must be a lot of legends about fox-ladies seducing folks?
ohako |
So you're trying to look like something off a death metal cover?
Personally, I'd go with
a) demon-spawn with the prehensile tail trait
b) abyssal-bloodline bloodrager
nothing says you have to seduce people necessarily, just try to sell them hot sauce or loud rock music. maybe also find a way to get +Cha to AC, either by dipping some flavor of Oracle, or getting a homebrew version of Celestial Obedience (Arshea)
StDrake |
I'll have to take a look at that charm hex bit
That prehensile tail is not really something necessary..and considering the campaign and my lust for spreading death and destruction among those hated npcs that wronged me last time I'd rather be selling them loud rocks..or rather throw some at them. Sadly the closest thing to arshea would be demonic obedience to Noticula..and that's taken plus I doubt I'd be able to convince the GM to have a fully fledged demon worshipper in a party that's supposed to swear fealty to a devil..at least as long as it takes to get the job done.
Which reminds me...wasn't Souleater closer to daemons?..that might just pass
Axelthegreat |
I'll have to take a look at that charm hex bit
That prehensile tail is not really something necessary..and considering the campaign and my lust for spreading death and destruction among those hated npcs that wronged me last time I'd rather be selling them loud rocks..or rather throw some at them. Sadly the closest thing to arshea would be demonic obedience to Noticula..and that's taken plus I doubt I'd be able to convince the GM to have a fully fledged demon worshipper in a party that's supposed to swear fealty to a devil..at least as long as it takes to get the job done.
Which reminds me...wasn't Souleater closer to daemons?..that might just pass
you may want to consider oracle because of the good use of CHA, the command and murderous command spells. I'm sure there are other spells that'd be nice for a charmer to have.
Aratrok |
If your group uses psionics, a Telepath (Mindbender) Psion would work very well for building a succubus-like character. You have plenty of leeway to focus your resources on doing lots of charming and mind games, and an excellent list of class skills and large number of skill points to be great at social skills.
Impose Will gets you telepathy with people you've charmed or dominated at 2nd level, and at 8th level you get actual long range telepathy for communicating with anyone.
Empathic connection is your charm. You'll slowly get access to more creature types as viable targets (though never quite as efficiently as charm monster).
Compelling voice is your suggestion, scaling up to be like mass suggestion with a bit more control over your output.
Mind control is your dominate. You have the flexibility to pump lots of energy into it to hit other creature types, or hit multiple targets.
That leaves you with plenty of powers known to pick up other fun tricks, like aversion, read thoughts, crisis of breath, and memory modification, in addition to staples from the general psion list. Expanded Knowledge can let you pick up ethereal form so you can go jaunting like a real succubus and astral construct to let you conjure up some "demon" buddies.
If you'd rather focus more heavily on Charisma, and/or push the "Chaos" theme more, Wilder could work out fairly well too, but you wouldn't be able to do much charming out of the gate. You'd need to spend a lot of feats on Expanded Knowledge to get the necessary powers, but you'd have better options for wading into combat and getting your hands dirty.
LazarX |
williamoak wrote:Yeah, Jimi Hendrix wrote a song about it.
As for the kitsune thing, that's tied to japanese lore as far as I'm aware; there must be a lot of legends about fox-ladies seducing folks?
That man would have made a legendary bard... In fact... he did.
Westphalian_Musketeer |
Eventually though Jimi failed a fortitude save against his habits.
Also, I just realized something, an inquisitor could work incredibly well for this build: You've got all the skill points you could need, the class skills you want, plus innumerable spells that match the theme.
The succubus-like tiefling could be fanatically embracing the lawful aspect of Asmodeus, blaming the chaotic hanky-panky of her mortal forebears on her condition.
StDrake |
Axial wrote:I think all of the pro-Asmodeus people you meet throughout the campaign won't take kindly to you summoning demons.What could POSSIBLY go wrong? :)
Oh no problem there, we're already going to be sumoning daemons, so whats the problem with one letter more or less :D our main quest giver not being exactly perfect with his wits Id say anything should pass if we're not going to be showing it off too much.
Psionics..darn I hate psionics and. I don't fully understand them. Whenever i saw them they tended to be a tad gamebreaking and add in some weird motives to the game instead of enriching the local climate. Though with what you wrote here sounds a tad better.
Any details on progression?
Aratrok |
Psionics is actually fairly simple when you get into it. If you've ever played a game with a mana bar, it's basically just that.
You have a number of power points determined by your class level and manifesting ability score. Similar to spell slots, but condensed into one number instead of up to 9.
Manifesting a power costs a number of power points based on its level. You can make the power stronger by spending extra power points on it, but never more than your manifester (caster) level.
That's pretty much entirely it, for the basics. You don't need to track spell slots or preparation or anything like that, just know how many power points you have and what powers you know (and what they do).
As for progression for a telepath psion;
First Level
You'd have 2 power points, plus 1/2 your Int modifier. So probably 3 or 4. By virtue of being a telepath psion, you can use detect psionics at will, and you get two of conceal thoughts (be good at lying and avoiding lie detectors), mind link (which gives you a telepathic link with one target), mind thrust (for brain melting), or telepathic lash (like the daze cantrip) at-will, though you won't be able to use conceal thoughts on other people and mind thrust will do less damage when you use it for free.
You also know 3 powers. So for nailing down succubus-ing you'll probably have empathic connection- which at this level can only function like charm person- and two other powers, which could be more general casty powers to have stuff to do when you're not charming, like ectoplasmic sheen for all your grease needs or mind thrust if you want to try and melt some brains.
Fifth Level
You have significantly more energy to throw around, with 25 power points plus 2.5 times your Int modifier. Probably around 35-40 total. This means you can throw a nice chunk of higher level powers around, or get a lot of mileage out of lots and lots of low level powers. You have a bit less over-all firepower compared to a traditional caster, but much more flexibility in how you use it (and it's much easier to track).
You've gotten the discipline ability Impose Will, which makes it so you get a free mind link along with charming or dominating someone that lasts as long as that effect does- especially nice if you want to whisper into someone's brain without being seen or it being obvious to everyone what you're telling them to do.
Your empathic connection has evolved a little bit to keep up with charm monster, which it'll (almost) match next level. You can spend extra power points to tag non-humanoid creature types with it, or spend extra power points to match the duration of charm monster at 1 day per level, but not both yet. In return, you have the advantage of more creature types target-able earlier than a traditional enchanter can manage.
Compelling voice and read thoughts became options at 3rd level. Compelling voice is your answer to suggestion, but you have the option of spending an extra 2 power points (the equivalent of spending a 3rd level spell instead of a 2nd level spell) to hit two targets that are close to each other with it instead of only one. Read thoughts does what it sounds like, and lets you play mind games a little more effectively or steal information. You can also use crisis of breath to literally take someone's breath away.
I'm not going to go into the general non-succubusy powers at great length (mostly since it's really late for me and I ought to be in bed instead of typing this :P), but suffice to say it's similar to being a sorcerer picking up other non-enchantment spells for general utility, defenses, and targets your wiles won't work on.
9th Level
You're brimming with power points, and if you wanted to you could dump most of them into charms instead of being forced to use other spells due to how slots work. You've got 72 plus 4.5 times your Int modifier in power points, so at this level somewhere around 100.
At 8th level you got real, actual telepathy like what a succubus has, but with better range. Your range is 400 ft, plus 10 for every level past 8th.
Empathic connection works like charm monster when you need it to. You can hit any creature type, and if you are willing to drop lots of power points on it you can get the duration of charm monster as well. Compelling voice can be supercharged to tell four people to go jump in a lake. Crisis of breath can be supercharged to hit lots of creature types.
At 7th level you got memory modification and can now play around with people's perceptions of past events or just straight up make people remember things that didn't happen. Best used on unaware or sleeping targets. You also learned mind control, which at first functioned like dominate person but you'll slowly be able to push it to hit other creature types or yoke the minds of multiple people at once. Mind probe lets you yank information right out of someone's brain.
Higher Levels
You'll also gain access to other tricks like swapping bodies with people through mind switch, literally stopping someone's heart with crisis of life, turning ethereal with ethereal form (though you'll need to spend a feat to learn it- it's specific to another discipline), and at 15th level teleporting like a succubus with greater psychoport. And this is all just the succubus-like stuff, you'll also have plenty of general options for building up your physical defenses and controlling the battlefield.
It's also worth noting that psionics is extremely easy to refluff. You don't have to stay attached to fluff like wizards with their spellbooks and components or clerics with their holy symbols need to, since you don't have anything like that- just mental actions and vague displays that accompany using your powers. You can very easily describe your powers as a result of demonic heritage or what have you, and come up with whatever visuals seem most appropriate. For example, empathic connection has a Mental display, meaning people nearby "feel" some sort of mental effect, such as a momentary deviant thought or surge of passion.