Bonus Druid Animal Companion Damage (Half Orc)


Pathfinder Society

Liberty's Edge

I searched but didn't find it, apologies if this has already been answered previously.

I recently (monday) realized that I had not taken any favored class bonuses for my Druid and was entitled to do so. Looking in PCGen (a computer program for building characters, basically the free/open source equivalent of Hero Lab) one of the options listed there from the Advanced Race Guide for a half orc druid is to add 1/2 point of damage to all animal companion natural weapon attacks.

A friend who is much more experienced than I says that only Orcs, not Half Orcs, get this bonus. Except I thought half orcs counted as orcs for all racial traits and bonuses and PCGen at least thinks I do in fact qualify. He also says that none of the Orc stuff from the ARC is legal for PFS. I am not 100% sure that is the correct interpretation though.

Obviously playing an Orc isn't legal and so all the rules for playing one would not apply or be legal for PFS. Can't play a pure Orc, gotcha, check box. Makes sense. But I'm not playing an Orc I'm playing a Half Orc that takes after the Orc side of his heritage and the racial text in ARC says as a half Orc I can take Orc racial bonuses and the Paizo guide to what's legal in PFS says that all Half-Orc stuff from the ARC is legal for society play.

So can I take the damage bonus for my Lion?

Grand Lodge 4/5

Nothing from the Orc section of the ARG is legal for play. So you qualify for it, but it's not a legal option to pick. Sorry.


Ummm I'm not sure you are reading the question correctly Jeff. He's specifically asking about the Half-orc stuff not the Orc section. From my cursory reading it seems like the Beastmaster trait is legal.

Additional Resources wrote:
Half-Orcs: all alternate racial traits, racial subtypes, and favored class options are legal for play; all racial archetypes except blood god disciple and hateful rager are legal for play; all half-orc equipment is legal for play; all half-orc feats except Tenacious Survivor is legal for play; all half-orc magic items are legal for play; all half-orc spells except half-blood extraction are legal for play.
PRD wrote:

Half-orc alternately racial trait

Beastmaster: Some half-orcs have a spiritual kinship with fantastical beasts, capturing them for sport or living and hunting with them. A half-orc with this trait treats whips and nets as martial weapons and gains a +2 racial bonus on Handle Animal checks. This racial trait replaces orc ferocity.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Nylanfs wrote:
Ummm I'm not sure you are reading the question correctly Jeff. He's specifically asking about the Half-orc stuff not the Orc section. From my cursory reading it seems like the Beastmaster trait is legal.

I definitely am. He asked about the Orc favored class bonus for Druid, actually. Not sure where you're getting him asking about the Beastmaster trait from, or in fact anything from the half-orc section.

Liberty's Edge

Jeff is right, I was asking about the orc druid favored class bonus that gives a damage boost for animal companion, not beastmaster. Not the answer I was hoping for but if it's a blanket "nothing in orc section is legal" and not a "playing an orc isn't legal," than it is what it is.

Thanks for taking the time to answer, much appreciated.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

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Because nobody mentioned it, the Additional Resources document is the best place to look and see what non-Core options are legal and not legal. For future reference, at least.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

ARG, half-orc wrote:
Druid: Add +1/3 to the druid's natural armor bonus when using wild shape.
ARG, orc wrote:
Druid: Add +1/2 to the damage dealt by the druid's animal companion’s natural attacks.
Additional Resources wrote:
In Chapter 2, nothing from the catfolk, drow, hobgoblins, kobolds, orcs, and ratfolk entries are currently legal for play.

@Corragh: I sympathize... that orc FCB is pretty nice.

That said, I'd like to point out that you should never just trust Herolab as a source for rules/abilities. It's a convenient resource but you should always check in the book to verify that Herolab is correct; it isn't always. This right here is a good example.

Also, PFS rules dictate that in order to use something not from the CRB, you must have the relevant book with you (as watermarked PDF or printout, or as actual book). Herolab is not a legal source for PFS.

I'm not saying don't use Herolab to make a nice character sheet; it's fine for that. And it's good for windowshopping abilities to see which books you might want to buy. But if you actually want to get that ability, you'll need to buy the relevant book.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

I can't imagine this free PCGen program would be any less buggy than HeroLab, either, and IMO HeroLab has a lot of bugs.

It really is best to just do some actual research ahead of time. I know it's tempting to rely on the work of others, but I've personally had to correct so many characters that fell victim to the HeroLab trap, and so many players who don't know any better because they've come to rely on HeroLab.


Well the nice thing about PCGen is that you can help and get any bugs that are found fixed. We're an all volunteer group.

And I'm fairly sure that there are less bugs in PCGen than Herolab. :)

Grand Lodge 4/5

Nylanfs wrote:

Well the nice thing about PCGen is that you can help and get any bugs that are found fixed. We're an all volunteer group.

And I'm fairly sure that there are less bugs in PCGen than Herolab. :)

Now, if only PC Gen were actually something that was intuitive to use. At least for me. I know I have tried it once or twice, and it made my eyes cross trying to figure out how to get it working. Then again, maybe I am thinking about a different character generator.

@Nefreet: I think you are finding bugs where there are none, but maybe your players use some of the options that are subject to TV, so you see it one way, and HL sees it a different way.

An option you should use, when you find a bug in HeroLab: Report it. If it doesn't get reported, it cannot get fixed.

I have 28 PCs of my own, and have only run into one or two minor issues with HL when using it to build the, and I do verify everything I use, and all the numbers HL comes up with.

Most of the issues I have seen,as well, are usually on non-Core materials, or the effects on Core of non-Core materials. Things like getting the Bravery feature fixed for Lore Wardens, as they give away Bravery at 2nd level for something else, but do gain Bravery starting at 6th level. Most archetypes do things like that as all or nothing, instead.

Overall, if my number check doesn't match with the number given by HeroLab, it is more often that I missed a modifier, rather than HL being incorrect.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Minnesota

Nylanfs wrote:

Well the nice thing about PCGen is that you can help and get any bugs that are found fixed. We're an all volunteer group.

And I'm fairly sure that there are less bugs in PCGen than Herolab. :)

Herolab is actually fairly responsive about bug reports.

Hmm

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

Hmm wrote:
Nylanfs wrote:

Well the nice thing about PCGen is that you can help and get any bugs that are found fixed. We're an all volunteer group.

And I'm fairly sure that there are less bugs in PCGen than Herolab. :)

Herolab is actually fairly responsive about bug reports.

Hmm

Yeah, but I have at least one case where I reported a bug, and they told me that that is how the ability is supposed to work. If could not persuade the designers to give a clarification.

spoiler:

I argued that a courageous weapon would interact with barbarian rage, and heroism spells, they argue that it only improves moral bonuses when it comes to fear effects.

Courageous

Price +1 bonus
Aura faint enchantment; CL 3rd; Weight —

DESCRIPTION

This special ability can only be added to a melee weapon.

A courageous weapon fortifies the wielder's courage and morale in battle. The wielder gains a morale bonus on saving throws against fear equal to the weapon's enhancement bonus. In addition, any morale bonus the wielder gains from any other source is increased by half the weapon's enhancement bonus (minimum 1).

And some things are just not implemented yet, like the legendary item option intelligent item, after more than a year has passed.
At this point I am just to invested in hero lab, to try anything else, but it is always good to have alternatives.

5/5

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Sebastian, that's because when they asked for feedback from Paizo, that's what they were told to do by a Designer, regardless of how many users disagree.

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

Majuba wrote:
Sebastian, that's because when they asked for feedback from Paizo, that's what they were told to do by a Designer, regardless of how many users disagree.

Yeah.. I don't think so, here are my is my correspondence with the hero lab people:

My bug report wrote:

Pathfinder bug report: Courageous weapon enhancement does not work as written

The courageous weapon enhancement doesn't increase the bonus from
spells like heroism (which gives a moral bonus).
I checked in the paizo.com forum, and it seems that my interpretation
of the ability (that it increases every moral bonus) is used by pretty
much everyone. It seems, to be regarded as a highly effective weapon
enhancement for barbarians and groups with bards, maybe even to good
for a +1, but that seems to be the RAW.

It would be nice, if this issue could be re-evaluated. Thank you very
much, otherwise I am a very happy customer.

Developer response wrote:
I'm sorry, but we're still hoping that Paizo clarifies the way this power is intended to aork. Before we spend many hours finding every ability in Pathfinder that grants a morale bonus, and altering it to change the amount of its bonus if the courageous power is active on an equipped weapon, we'd like to be certain that we're implementing what will be the final rules for this power, and we won't have to undo all that work when this item is errata-ed.

I really can't fault, the hero lab developers here, I tried to get some official answer on the board and IIRC tried to get a FAQ, but without success. It is not that much more work for me, unless I am making a character/NPC with rage (and these days it seems to be the norm to use the raging stats in the main stat block).

The weapon enhancement is pretty damn great an seems almost mandatory for certain builds ( a +1 furious courageous weapon for barbarians), but this is IMO RAW.

EDIT: Of course if they asked Paizo, I would have no record of this.


With Herolab, though, it isn't to terribly complex to just add an adjustment bonus yourself.

-j

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

Jason Wu wrote:

With Herolab, though, it isn't to terribly complex to just add an adjustment bonus yourself.

-j

Yeah, it is not that tough, but if you are for example a Barbarian under the effect of heroism will have to make two adjustments. It isn't a huge deal, but it might confuse some users, they might actually believe the weak interpretation of the enhancement, on the basis that HeroLab uses it.

Grand Lodge 4/5

They emailed SKR about it and they're using it how he told them it worked.

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

Jeff Merola wrote:
They emailed SKR about it and they're using it how he told them it worked.

Thank, you at least now that issue is resolved, but to be honest, while this is great regarding my opinion of the lonewolf guys, I am pretty unhappy that this is the way I learn about this. Why isn't this in the FAQ, the vast majority of players seem to assume that this ability works as written.

Oh well, time to necro the last thread on the issue: link.
It even has posts from some kind of eidolon.

Just checked, and it seems they have implemented it that way (on a +4 courageous weapon it shows +4 moral on saving throws (+2 stacks with similar).. just noticed, that the program doesn't indicate a potential stacking issue when it comes to a character with heroism that is under the effect of aura of courage, but I suspect that is another issue.

Oh and for the record, I do think that the thing is utterly broken as written, but that is the way they have chosen to write it.

Sorry for the off topic discussion.

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