Eagerly awaiting EE


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Goblin Squad Member

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Is there a patch planned tomorrow, or is it supposed to hit the world just before the real dancing begins?
Is there a plan for how to start the EE, will it be staggered as the stresstest alpha?
Who do you bribe to be in first group?
Do we sacrifice to Zog?
Is there more features that will be released or are the poor bastards fully occupied with finding and defeating the dreaded unmentionable bug of teleporting/desyncing/serveroverload?
Will the escalations be restarted?
Will the content of nodes be redistributed and thus making my harvests map useless?
For the answer to these questions and many more see the next weeks GoblinSOAP!

Goblin Squad Member

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Tune in Tomorrow! Same Goblin Time! Same Goblin Channel!

Scarab Sages Goblin Squad Member

The suspense, it's killing me!

Goblin Squad Member

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And the question on everyone's lips: will we have Destiny's Twin?

Goblin Squad Member

My money is on another month delay, even if the next patch fixes these desync and rollback issues, no way you release a game less than a week after an issue like that.

Goblin Squad Member

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I think it depends a lot on if there is a large patch today or not. if they successfully patch it today, then perhaps they go for it, if not, I agree with you, Valkenr.

Goblin Squad Member

<Kabal> Kradlum wrote:
And the question on everyone's lips: will we have Destiny's Twin?

From the Alpha Forums - Is DT MVP?

Ryan Dancey wrote:

Destiny's Twin: Trying to get it ready for the start of Early Enrollment.

More complex account options: Not even on the priority task list yet.

Goblin Squad Member

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Oh, you Prophets of Alpha, have the gods communicated if there is a patch today?

Goblin Squad Member

No announcements yet.

Goblin Squad Member

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Oh, the gods are quite, we are left in the dark, they have abandon us because we are sinner. Repent people REPENT!

Goblin Squad Member

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Zog requires a sacrifice*. I suggest taking all your T2 gear to Ozem's Vigil and handing it to Cal. The gods told me personally exactly what to do with it.

* Offer void where prohibited by law. Results not typical. These statements have not been evaluated by Goblinworks

Scarab Sages Goblin Squad Member

No blog today. So sayeth Ryan in the How Many Times... thread.

Goblin Squad Member

Zog is unhappy with us ....

Zog refuse us his words

Scarab Sages Goblin Squad Member

Schedim wrote:

Zog is unhappy with us ....

Zog refuse us his words

Clearly, we must sacrifice unto Zog. Who shall we sacrifice?

Liberty's Edge Goblin Squad Member

Sadly, I doubt EE will be ready by this Thursday. I pray that Ryan and staff prove me wrong, but I simply don't see PrO as yet at a stage remotely EE ready. Server is stressed such that player experience the desycrinization at least once a game session, with many experiencing them more frequently. The UI still needs a manor overhaul; drop rates and settlements levels need to be such that it is fair to all players (currently only rogues, fighters and clerics can trail their roles to 8, wizards are still restricted by settlement level to role 4); a better AH interface is desperately needed; better handling of the escalation mechanics to reduce server stress goes with the above mentioned desyncing "bug"; more official documentation of harvesting and crafting, particularly recipes so new to crafting players have a better grasp of what feats they should spend experience one and what isn't needed to buy with said xp. The list is longer but as I am on my Galaxy phone I will leave it there for now. Cheatle and others are probably correct and EE needs at least two more weeks to become a reality. Having been a software tech, my gut feeling is it more than likely needs a full month or more, but that is only based upon what little info I can glean from the public forum, not having paid for Alpha only EE.

Goblin Squad Member

As I said, sweaty meetings and suddenly bald patches on all involveds heads....

Goblin Squad Member

The problem I have with posts like Gloreindl's is that we are going into EE and I know GW doesn't like to call it this but its basically a pay to play Beta. Now I know not everyone with access to EE got the 'free' time initial backers did but their solution remains as always- wait until the content you WANT is ingame to start playing. All this talk of interfaces and overhauls needing improvement ignores the fact that these systems WILL be overhauled likely a number of times during the course of EE. We have a very basic game in a mostly playable state right now. Day 1 EE DOESNT need major improvements to any of the systems we have seen thus far it needs to see those systems be as reliable as possible. Obviously encumbrance and some of the accessories that currently don't have active effects ingame would be nice to see working, player looting is another important mechanic. But my feeling is if these were not ready if we had a firm plan from the devs on WHEN they would be incorporated into the game and that when being ASAP, top priority, we expect it to be in in X days, we could still launch. Some of us want to get in and start seeding the world with our own accomplishments. The first wave is ready even if the arm chair generals are not, they can come in at their own pace when they want after the labor of the devs to broaden the game and the efforts of the first wave to create our organizations finally meet THEIR definition of 'ready for EE'.

Liberty's Edge Goblin Squad Member

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I understand your frustration with my post my TEO brother, but as you point out many with EE access haven't had, as we have, access to the Alpha. My main concern, after server farm stability, is making sure the first impression is a good one. Yes I agree EE is just a long Beta but if you a d I don't want to see more people take the attitude of a former TEO member I shan't name, the Goblinworks need to put forth a slightly better MVP. I have supported PfO since the concept video Kickstarter and I want to see it succeed and thrive for years if not decades.

Grand Lodge Goblin Squad Member

Here is the problem with a good impression

If you really want to show a polished product - why do you allow everyone into alpha? There has been a lot of people voicing their opinion because alpha wasn't ready in their mind (whatever they expected it to be).

This needs to be kept in mind. Everyone already had the option to play a while for free in alpha and should be used to a lot. Or they just never logged in and then they only will start playing because whatever they do will stay and not wiped.

Goblin Squad Member

I understand your point Gloreindl its not really frustration with your post. I only have had access as part of the stress test and ANYONE with EE access does in fact now have access to alpha. They have now gone live with 10.1 to address stability and as to the first impression question, my question honestly would be where do you draw the line then? My first impression right now if that its a game far from complete but ready for gamers to start making their mark on the game world. I am willing to start now but my point at which I will really be interested in maintaining my game time will be when POI and settlement improvement is integrated into the game. In the meantime I have no problem running down my 'free time' and even paying for a few months but the reality will be lots of features SHOULD be added in those 'free months' so I want people who argue for delay to expend some mental effort into really explaining what is so 'broke' EE cant start at its current ETA.

Goblin Squad Member

I've visited some games multiple times in the course of their lives, just to see what's been changed since last I was there. Is that behaviour uncommon, given that many posters write about a first impression as if it's the only chance PFO will ever get?

Goblin Squad Member

Its not uncommon at all, the problem here is that (1) too many people act like its an all or nothing scenario and (2) keep trying to act like EE should be like a live game launch. I personally have revisited WOW, DDO, EVE, Rift, AoC, and STO often multiple times as they evolved. If GW stays true to the focus on MEANINGFUL INTERACTIONS as their primary focus in releasing content they should be fine, especially as the avowed goal is steady growth not peaks and troughs in subscribers.

Goblin Squad Member

I very much hope that folks hold off joining PFO until it has the features they want, as that can't help but increase their involvement with and enjoyment of the game once they play, and avoid increasing their frustration--other than that of waiting--before those features arrive.

Goblin Squad Member

Maybe they can consider some sort of "post-play" incentives, later, at a discount to actual play time. Say a "three-month XP pack," that doesn't get you any play time at all, but gets you 3x30x2400 XP, (subject to not getting more XP than a day-one account. Instead of 45$, maybe it would be $35. So a person who wants to let it develop for a few months could sit it out for a while, then look again in spring without feeling like they've missed the chance to be a "top-tier" character.

It could also sell to people who had a rough time financially and had a drop out, so are interested, but want to be back where they'd have been if they stayed in. Perhaps $12 a month to "back-buy" XP for the character.

It would additionally help shift the market away from people selling mature characters for large sums, and let GW do it instead, so the money goes into the game, not someone's pocket after they've already enjoyed playing the character for months or years. Such characters would still need to train and obtain achievements, but it reduces one of the barriers to later entry or returning after a hiatus.

Goblin Squad Member

Caldeathe that's a very interesting idea.

Goblin Squad Member

I think the problem is more one of those whether or not the MVP expectations are actually met by those players entering into EE. With Alpha, you can dismiss any shortcomings as Alpha. With EE, you are essentially saying this a periodic payment viable game, even if an early one.

I merely hope that it is a small game loop that functions effectively at EE launch.

Goblin Squad Member

Fafryd wrote:
I think the problem is more one of those whether or not the MVP expectations are actually met by those players entering into EE.

More to the point will it meet the MVP expectations to that large number of players who did not bother with Alpha and intend to just rock up for EE.

This new group are going to be relatively incompetent in game and have high expectations. it may be interesting.

Personally, aside from the bugs, I would prefer if Alpha went a bit longer so I can explore the T2 crafting that was almost in reach when they suddenly moved the goal posts.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

T7V Jazzlvraz wrote:
I've visited some games multiple times in the course of their lives, just to see what's been changed since last I was there. Is that behaviour uncommon, given that many posters write about a first impression as if it's the only chance PFO will ever get?

That's not an uncommon behaviour, but it's an irrelevant behaviour.

You probably visited again a lot of games from time to time, but the difference is, in a launch, you get a lot of people at the same time, which creates a community.

When you visit a game some time later, it will not be in a concerted effort of thousands of players.

If PFO sucks Day 1, people will leave, and once they left, if they come back, it will be to find an empty game, even if it has gotten better. And except hardcore fans, most people will not lose time in an empty game.

Please understand that there is a truckload of great games, and new ones come out every week. The normal average player will not give PFO a chance just because it's PFO.

Goblin Squad Member

Remember also that this is a PvP game of territory control where you can "lose your stuff" to other players.

New players will always be at a disadvantage in such a game. You can argue how much a disadvantage but simply, a lot of people will want to play early, and if they stop playing (to wait for the game to get cleaned up)many will not come back.

Goblin Squad Member

I am not sure how much difference EE will make.

The game has already started. the settlements that made the effort to get a reasonable presence in Alpha are already dominating the game and that will not change with EE.

Yes we will get an annoying influx of people that "waited to EE" that will have no idea how to play and will temporarily nerf there permanent characters with bad training decisions and spam the chat with complaints and questions but the "power" players and settlements will be the ones that played right through alpha.

EE will not see some massive transformation of the game and quantum leap forward it will justbe a milestone of progress.

Goblin Squad Member

I have not played in a month. How many active players would you estimate are on simultaneously now?

Goblin Squad Member

From chat activity and seeing people active in my travels I would say probably several hundred truly active most of the time in game. Usually a few times as many people logged in but afk. Greatest population density I've seen in a hex is 14/15 people at a time all active when we are banging our heads against escalations. Usually it isn't too hard to form a party in TEOs neck of the woods.


I would guess 150 max on at a time, usually more like 60-90.

Goblin Squad Member

Maybe it's down to different timezones, but I doubt that more than about one hundred are playing when I'm on. It's possible that they are all hiding in the hexes where I'm not and don't use the chat box, but from what I see there aren't many playing when I am.

Goblin Squad Member

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Neadenil Edam wrote:
Fafryd wrote:
I think the problem is more one of those whether or not the MVP expectations are actually met by those players entering into EE.

More to the point will it meet the MVP expectations to that large number of players who did not bother with Alpha and intend to just rock up for EE.

This new group are going to be relatively incompetent in game and have high expectations. it may be interesting.

Personally, aside from the bugs, I would prefer if Alpha went a bit longer so I can explore the T2 crafting that was almost in reach when they suddenly moved the goal posts.

Also of note... Once GW starts accepting money for the game, sites like MMORPG are going to rate PFO. Once that rating gets on a site like that, it has begun. If PFO rates at a 4/10, the game will die.

No one is going to even bother with a game that rates poorly.

Again, they will rate the game once it starts charging a fee. Ryan needs to consider that. Future promises will not spur any meaningful influx... If it did the game would already be massive.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

Neadenil Edam wrote:

I am not sure how much difference EE will make.

The game has already started. the settlements that made the effort to get a reasonable presence in Alpha are already dominating the game and that will not change with EE.

Yes we will get an annoying influx of people that "waited to EE" that will have no idea how to play and will temporarily nerf there permanent characters with bad training decisions and spam the chat with complaints and questions but the "power" players and settlements will be the ones that played right through alpha.

EE will not see some massive transformation of the game and quantum leap forward it will justbe a milestone of progress.

Yeah, I don't think so.

There is two possibilities :

The game is a success, and the population will be far greater than in the alpha, even though it's supposed to be growing with time. Most settlements without some infrastructure or experienced leadership in PvP sandbox behind them, which is, well, most settlements, will quickly disappear, to the profit of semi-pro organisations. TEO, Aragon, Ozem & Golgotha, well I don't see a lot of other things having a mid-term future... Especially Thod's. A TT RPG monument will be a target of choice for a lot of people.

Or the game isn't a success, and you won't see a lot of movement indeed.

Goblin Squad Member

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I agree with Xeen 100%, as the conversation we had brought us both to the same speculation.

More harm can be done by entering Early Enrollment too soon, than can be done by putting it off for a few more weeks or even months.

The mentioning of "paid beta" is not going over well in the MMO/PC gamer community.

If Ryan denies that it is beta, then the game will be reviewed as a released / launched product. No one in the MMO/Gaming community is going to care what Ryan describes as MVP. They will look at PFO, look at the $15.00 in their pocket, look at any other game that costs $15.00 per month or worse for PFO, any game that is F2P.... and find PFO sorely wanting.

It has already been proven the PF TT community has not swarmed to the game as hoped for. They got their PDF bundles which was well worth the $100 KS pledge.

The pitch to the MMO community has to be made at this point, and it is not convincing right now. As many of us experienced, we could not give away Alpha Invites and there is already been a second hand market for accounts and they are not selling at face value.

January 1, 2015 should be the target.

Goblin Squad Member

Bluddwolf wrote:


The mentioning of "paid beta" is not going over well in the MMO/PC gamer community.

If Ryan denies that it is beta, then the game will be reviewed as a released / launched product. No one in the MMO/Gaming community is going to care what Ryan describes as MVP. They will look at PFO, look at the $15.00 in their pocket, look at any other game that costs $15.00 per month or worse for PFO, any game that is F2P.... and find PFO sorely wanting.

True in general, but this does not mean GW's method of growing a game with their MVP method is automatically doomed. They are hoping there are enough people that want to be part of this proces of developing and crowdforging a game, and pay their 15 dollars a month for it.

It's not that weirder monetization schemes haven't happened: simply look at Star Citizen, which has almost 60 million right in the pocket, and so far only a very limited playable demo of space combat. Now you may say that Chris Roberts is a veteran, and that all these millions are a collateral for some of the most fantastic art assets ever shown in a space game (Ships) but he is still selling a dream. It's not that there is a game yet. And people keep forking over the money.

Apples and Oranges? Maybe. Just saying that Goblinworks MVP and Crowdforging could be another such outsider.

And to be part of *this* dream only costs 15 dollars a month. The average Star Citizen whale would laugh at that.

(they sold out their new concept ship the 890 Jump within 3 days. Limited edition of around 3600 ships costing 600 dollar each.... and at least 2/3 of the money they earned were "new" pledges and not melted other ships).


Well, GW is taking a different route from games like Life is Feudal, or Star Citizen.

LiF, and SC, are taking the route of making pretty stuffy first with basic gameplay, getting interest and $$$, then building the more persistent game system later.

I think GW has taken the opposite route of trying to flesh out and get the workings of the persistent system first, while using less polished assets or minimal offerings for other more mundane aspects.

It's certainly a gamble.

However, I think to build a sandbox environment that is balanced and playable, you really need to get people playing it in a serious manner as soon as possible. Non-serious/fake play like in Alpha just won't get you the wealth of real feedback that people playing seriously will garner.

The downside of incubating a sandbox game for years while you get everything looking pretty, is that you launch with a product that gets broken to ridiculousness within weeks, and then have to change all kinds of stuff to account for untested/unpredictable player behavior.

Scarab Sages Goblin Squad Member

Doc || Allegiant Gemstone Co. wrote:
I think to build a sandbox environment that is balanced and playable, you really need to get people playing it in a serious manner as soon as possible. Non-serious/fake play like in Alpha just won't get you the wealth of real feedback that people playing seriously will garner.

I agree. The Alpha economy, for example, is a frail shadow of what it should be once EE begins. Right now, people have a very weak profit motive, because they know all their money is about to disappear. It's hard to sell anything on the AH for more than a handful of copper. Part of that is because the AH UI is so cumbersome. Partly, it's because there's no more incentive to buy temporary items than there is to make temporary profits. Give people the feeling that their gains are permanent, and they'll take the economy seriously.

As a side note, if GW doesn't want to see market watching Web sites springing up, then they need to get the market data display tool in the AH UI running ASAP.

Goblin Squad Member

The other big issue with the markets.... Too many NPC settlements.

Goblin Squad Member

Aren't all of the NPC settelements getting wiped except for Thornkeep?

Shadow Lodge Goblin Squad Member

I am one of the people that fairly early on in the Alpha, that kind of dropped off... My job really picked up in intensity, and I wasn't enthralled with my experience in the Alpha. Running around with a stick, trying to find a weapon that I actually wanted to use, was off putting. On top of that, advancement wasn't really clear. I could go and reference the spreadsheets that fans put together, but plotting my course was not exactly engaging. I am a stats nerd, so I don't mind this kind of thing... But I knew my wife would get frustrated enough to lose all enthusiasm. For that reason, I suggested she wait until closer to EE. I gave my alpha invites to RL friends that plan to play, and all but one said that they weren't interested. The look, the clunky feel, the obscurity of advancement, etc... were all cited.

I am going to play, for sure. What I want to know is; What do I tell my friends? Are things more user friendly? Is there more to do than go goblin or ogre slaying? Can you look at the trainer lists and figure out a logical path toward a standard archetype?

I am sorry for being absent for the last month or so... But I am curious what is the stat of the game, the week prior to EE?

Goblin Squad Member

<Magistry> Athansor wrote:

Aren't all of the NPC settelements getting wiped except for Thornkeep?

They were supposed to, Ryan made a post recently that said they are not.

Grand Lodge Goblin Squad Member

Audoucet wrote:

TEO, Aragon, Ozem & Golgotha, well I don't see a lot of other things having a mid-term future... Especially Thod's. A TT RPG monument will be a target of choice for a lot of people.

Thanks for the confidence in me and our settlement. I likely would agree if I would see us as just a TT RPG monument. But these are only the roots. The trick of survival is

a) to learn
b) to ensure you are worth more alive as dead - at least to the important neighbours

I will be interested in your opinion in three month time.

Grand Lodge Goblin Squad Member

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Blackvigil wrote:


I am going to play, for sure. What I want to know is; What do I tell my friends? Are things more user friendly? Is there more to do than go goblin or ogre slaying? Can you look at the trainer lists and figure out a logical path toward a standard archetype?

Lets start with - is there more to goblin or ogre slaying.

Yes and no. The whole game centers around settlements and building an infrastructure for the inhabitants. The slaying of (insert monster type here) is a side effect.
Monster slaying becomes meaningful if it helps your settlement to clear out areas around it, to gain recipes that the settlement can use for better crafting, to allow better gathering of resources.

This is also why a standard archetype doesn't truly make sense. As settlement leader I look at variety. I can't use 5 dwarven armour smithes when I lack the smelter of the gatherers.

Your (insert craft here) becomes meaningful if it is needed in the settlement and the settlement in return helps you with recipes and raw materials while your output in return helps the other members of the settlement.

That leave the logical path. There is no simple way yet. The whole game reminds me of civilization - but without the big map with the pregession tree - and in alpha you had the added 'benefit' that the tree occasionally changed.

So I would say - join a settlement with someone leading it who knows what is needed and how to get an economy going. Everything else then will follow.

If you try on your own, then there is a good chance you will be lost. I spend many hours to ensure I can help my members to feel will work towards meaningful goals and to know how they can be reached or to ensure everyone has a role where he/she can contribute.

There will be others who will help and guide - but players need to make an effort or ask - or they likely will be disappointed. No - EE is not yet there where you just start and all seems clear what you need to do.

Actually this is a sandbox. We make stuff meaningfull or not. The drawback - there is no single recipe what you need to do. And I won't give two members in my settlement the exact same advice. It will differ in every case - be it interest, need for the settlement, time they play, etc.

Goblin Squad Member

There were always intended to be three NPC settlements, though one was going to be off the EE map to the north. I can see those who chose to be near TG because they wanted to be near the primary entry point being irritated, though it's hardly the first time things have been changed that cause headaches for some to the betterment of the game from GW's point of view.

I think that, at the very least, there are far too many NPC settlements, at least in the North. I hope that if they must stay, they are reduced to no more than three or four that are well distributed across the existing map.

And if they really are only load balancing points, then they should not be training most things, or well.

Goblin Squad Member

Xeen wrote:
<Magistry> Athansor wrote:

Aren't all of the NPC settelements getting wiped except for Thornkeep?

They were supposed to, Ryan made a post recently that said they are not.

meh.

Goblin Squad Member

<Magistry> Athansor wrote:
Xeen wrote:
<Magistry> Athansor wrote:

Aren't all of the NPC settelements getting wiped except for Thornkeep?

They were supposed to, Ryan made a post recently that said they are not.
meh.

Exactly right

Goblinworks Executive Founder

Doc || Allegiant Gemstone Co. wrote:

Well, GW is taking a different route from games like Life is Feudal, or Star Citizen.

LiF, and SC, are taking the route of making pretty stuffy first with basic gameplay, getting interest and $$$, then building the more persistent game system later.

Er, there's more gameplay in LiF than PFO, you can already build things and modify the landscape.

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