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Sometimes not all of our group can get together, so for those times when the two people who ~always~ make it are the only two who can, we're thinking about starting up a side campaign, one that's a little less serious in scope. The concept is an unlikely duo of a goblin and a kobold, hapless outcasts at every turn, saving the world without anyone ever knowing it...
We're completely open to classes, trying to figure out what a good combo might be. It'll be a homebrew campaign so it'll be tailored enough that we don't absolutely have to have 'balance' in the classic sense. The only limitations is no firearms, no clerics and no alchemists.
Any advice - feat recommendations, favored class options, whatever - would be much appreciated. This is something very new for us.
Just an idea: Gestalt rules were made for the Stunning Solo/Dynamic Duo campaigns.
Personally I can see these 2 races meshing perfectly. A melee Magus build and a Ranged Inquisitor might be an interesting pair. The Magus brings Blasting power and the Inquisitor brings buffs and limited healing.
We were kind of thinking of working towards the Arcane Trickster with the Goblin and maybe a Deulist for the Kobold... how do you think that would work out? Are there any feat combos or tricks unique for either race?
Just an idea: Gestalt rules were made for the Stunning Solo/Dynamic Duo campaigns.
Personally I can see these 2 races meshing perfectly. A melee Magus build and a Ranged Inquisitor might be an interesting pair. The Magus brings Blasting power and the Inquisitor brings buffs and limited healing.
Yeah, we'd rather stay away from gestalts.
Neither of us have ever played an Inquisitor or a Magus before. We'll have to look into it.
If you want I have a Kobold Fighter(Aldori Swordlord*) that I built for an Assassination one-off.
*homeruled to give EWP(Aldori Dueling Sword) and reflavored to fit the setting.
What about a rogue and fighter combo... Call them scaly and the green mouser. ;)
Actually, I think two bards would be a blast.
While I have no advice to give, I do hope that you'll consider sharing some in-character campaign write-ups in the future.
I second the campaign write-ups.
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If you go with a goblin and a kobold, you might want to give the kobold player a higher point buy, due to the stat differences (goblins end up with a net +0, kobolds with a net -4).
Everyone has different preferences, but I'd go with a goblin druid and a kobold summoner, and mostly ignore fancy stuff like archetypes (and certainly avoid the synthesist!).
The goblin druid could have a wolf or goblin dog companion, and the kobold whatever sort of eidolon suits their fancy (quadruped, if both want the option of riding their companions).
Ran a short two-person game once. It was a Paladin and a Bard. They worked very well together.
Any of the companion would classes help; Ranger, Druid, Summoner, heck even a Cavalier's mount can attack.
What is wrong with the Synthesist in this case?
But I think a Kobold with a Dragon Based Eidolon would be awesome...
Play up his draconic heritage a bit.
A Goblin Ranger with a Wolf Companion would be awesome as well...
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What is wrong with the Synthesist in this case?
One of the problems with a smaller group of one or two people is action economy. With an external eidolon (or druid companion, etc.) you are getting another set of actions. The summoner can cast grease or glitterdust (or, with a master summoner, even summon monsters with his SLA), while the eidolon stands between him and danger, mixing it up. (Ditto the druid casting entangle or produce flame, while wolfie gets in their and trips some fools.)
With a synthesist, that advantage goes away. You either are a not-really fighter *or* a not-really sorcerer. In a larger group, with dedicated fighters and spellcasters to carry your butt, it's probably not the end of the world if one of the PCs is trying to cram a square peg into a round hole. But in a two man group, both need to be able to pull their weight, and not be trapped in a situation where in any given round, they can't effectively use half their class abilities.
But I think a Kobold with a Dragon Based Eidolon would be awesome... Play up his draconic heritage a bit.
Indeed, and if he takes a medium quadruped eidolon, and gives it wings, he'll have a mini-dragon by 5th level.
A Goblin Ranger with a Wolf Companion would be awesome as well...
Yup. Bit more fight-y than the Druid option, but still viable. Still, as a Ranger, the party will lack healing at all, until 4th+ level...
I like the idea of Gorge (Goblin nature oracle flavoued as a knight) and Da Dragon (Kobold Totem Barbarian/Crossblooded Dragon/Pit touched Dragon disciple)
Rangers can Also get boon companion if they are allowed. Heck they could be given it as a bonus feat.
And I forgot about Action Economy.
Also Kobold Racial Feats really help a Summoner out IIRC.
I have to say, the idea of a Summoner and a Ranger definitely would go a long way towards making them more 'power-equitable' and to be honest I kind of like the concepts... the only problem I'm running into is that we kind of thought of these guys as a couple of hapless anti-heroes rather than out-and-out badasses, and with all of the stealth bonuses the two of them gain, imagined a whole lot of sneaking in and out of places which seems less likely with mounts and eidolons.
Some good advice though and something we're going to have to seriously consider.
Btw - the names we're currently considering are 'Grovel and Hopps'. Grovel the Goblin is a lot sharper and more worldly than his contemporaries but clings to the belief that writing indeed steals your soul and really isn't very fond of reading either if he can help it. Hopps finds that to be utterly ridiculous and enjoys tormenting his friend and his superstitious nature by leaving him notes or planting open books where he might see them. As for Hopps, he's utterly, completely convinced that he is a direct descendant of a Linnorm he read about once and is utterly terrified of spiders and insects. Both have a strong affinity for dwarven spirits - and I don't mean the kind that have passed on - usually acquired through theft as dwarves don't seem to care much for them.
At least, that's our early take. Figure as often as not we'll have 1 full-time NPC though they will likely change often.
I just talked to him and we're kind of thinking a Goblin Scout and a Kobold Master Summoner... the summoned creatures should give Grovel a chance to utilize flanking and sneak attack in combat often and should help with action economy, and even the weaker version of the eidolon could still make for a useful companion - a small-sized scout that can be transmogrified into a medium-sized flying mount from time to time perhaps? We won't have much in the way of healing, but our homebrew campaigns don't usually have much of that anyway (divine scrolls and wands usable only by those who share the same faith), but all of the extra bodies in combat and the stealth outside of it should help keep us alive.
Me Goblin! Me want Alchemist! Me want FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!
Make funny kobold magik stuff. Kobolds always do magik stuff!
The obvious choice is for a valiant yet hapless knight (paladin) and his wisecracking minstrel-turned-chronicaler (bard).
I'd have to recommend Rogue for the Goblin and Sorcerer for the Kobold. But hey, traditionalist here. Then again, if you hadn't said no Alchemists, firearms, or Clerics; my recommendations were going to be Goblin Gunslinger and Kobold Alchemist (with a fondness for mutagen)
Seriously that was my first thought when I saw the duo proposed.
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Aw, kobolds and goblins working together would be hilariously, dangerously cute. If they get popular enough to end up with a full-on adventuring band, why not invite in an orc and a bugbear or drow?
My only suggestion is to watch out with a Master Summoner and a Scout, since the one without multiple eidolons might feel left out at having a fewer number of turns. If Hopps likes to make fun of his friend, issues could potentially rise.
Also, you could always go the take-off route, and have a goblin Sensei who's basically Yoda.
The thoughts that I had after reading this post was to go a goblin paladin and a kobold synthesist. you then have the goblin ride the kobold with his medium sized eidolon and have a song running in the background. You would completely kill your action economy but I understand this to be a more loose and fun campaign than a full on power level kinda campaign. As such the power level could easily be adjusted for the weak comp, but it would be hella fun! as for stealthy, you could take stealth synergy coupled with your eidolon taking skilled:stealth to have your 1 model trio be really sneaky... goblins get +4 racial, +4 size, high dex bonus and possibly skill focus:stealth. The kobold gets +4 size, +3 for class skill, and a decent dex bonus. His eidolon would get +3 for class skill, small/decent dex bonus and +8 for skilled:stealth and you could have insane stealth checks even by low levels. With stealth synergy as your first feat for all three and how you add all your stealth mods together, you could be looking at: 3 rolls take the highest, +26 flat bonus, 3 skill, +dex X3 for each of your little greenies! Unspottable!
The thoughts that I had after reading this post was to go a goblin paladin and a kobold synthesist. you then have the goblin ride the kobold with his medium sized eidolon and have a song running in the background. You would completely kill your action economy but I understand this to be a more loose and fun campaign than a full on power level kinda campaign. As such the power level could easily be adjusted for the weak comp, but it would be hella fun! as for stealthy, you could take stealth synergy coupled with your eidolon taking skilled:stealth to have your 1 model trio be really sneaky... goblins get +4 racial, +4 size, high dex bonus and possibly skill focus:stealth. The kobold gets +4 size, +3 for class skill, and a decent dex bonus. His eidolon would get +3 for class skill, small/decent dex bonus and +8 for skilled:stealth and you could have insane stealth checks even by low levels. With stealth synergy as your first feat for all three and how you add all your stealth mods together, you could be looking at: 3 rolls take the highest, +26 flat bonus, 3 skill, +dex X3 for each of your little greenies! Unspottable!
Some good ideas there. Seems to me that Stealth Synergy is a bit broken though I have no doubt we'll try to use it - what keeps a group of five from having 1 person with maxed out stealth scores and the rest of them just piggybacking off of him for the cost of a feat?
Skill Focus: Stealth grants +3/+6... Stealth Synergy could easily grant +10 or more.
Oh, and I have to say that this little duo just seems to scream out for the critical hits and fumbles decks - agreed?
Oh, and I have to say that this little duo just seems to scream out for the critical hits and fumbles decks - agreed?
Yes... yes they do...
On the Eidolon and Mount. You can always have them as Cavalry. After all they don't have to be at their master's side. Eidolons can be up to 1 Mile away. Mounts... is their even a distance for the mount?
Some good ideas there. Seems to me that Stealth Synergy is a bit broken though I have no doubt we'll try to use it - what keeps a group of five from having 1 person with maxed out stealth scores and the rest of them just piggybacking off of him for the cost of a feat?
Skill Focus: Stealth grants +3/+6... Stealth Synergy could easily grant +10 or more.
I would agree that stealth synergy is extremely powerful possibly to the extent of being broken. All the party really needs is a single character focused on stealth to turn the entire party into an assassin hit squad. It does have its flaws however, first is the feat cost. How often does that 2-weapon fighting rogue have an extra feat laying around? It can be a steep cost for some classes, archery comes to mind. The second and large weakness of the feat is the caveat "" wich can make that human have a hard time staying quiet in the pitch black dungeon especially as its hard to sneak with a torch out ;)
Since both goblins and kobolds have darkvision and are literally on top of each other this should rarely be a problem.I also do not think that you realize that it says "" you could add the goblins +4 to size and +4 for skilled to the kobolds +4 to size and skilled. Stealth is a class skill for both? add it twice! You also roll twice (once for each) and take the highest. Add in the eidolon and you are really undetectable for your level and probably triple your level.
That ended up long winded and....
200th post!!!
Lots of potential...
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Can't stop imagining the "Goblins of Purity" wallpaper goblin teamed up with one of the various versions of Kobold Quarterly's mascot.
Ooh, goblin cavalier! Another class that comes with a 'pet.' (Which could be a wolf or goblin dog mount.)
Or a goblin cavalier with the hound master archetype!
@Set: I love the idea of a Goblin Cavalier
@Mikaze: I am now going to have to build a Kobold Monk...
If you don't already, you should read the webcomic Goblins.
As for classes, I'd suggest a rogue and a sorcerer, and avoid a straight up fight at all costs. Use ranged, sniping attacks, hit and run and hide.
If you don't already, you should read the webcomic Goblins.
As for classes, I'd suggest a rogue and a sorcerer, and avoid a straight up fight at all costs. Use ranged, sniping attacks, hit and run and hide.
I love that webcomic.
And these class suggestions are excellent choices.
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If this happens, one of the Big Bads needs to be a gravenight dragonslayer* riding a nightmare**. :)
It could even be a figure of dread that hounds them until they're able to stand up to it, either on their own or with whatever allies they may have gained through their deeds.
*With a cloak of metallic hide
**With reinforced burning hooves perpetually stained by the blood of small victims
If this happens, one of the Big Bads needs to be a gravenight dragonslayer* riding a nightmare**. :)
It could even be a figure of dread that hounds them until they're able to stand up to it, either on their own or with whatever allies they may have gained through their deeds.
*With a cloak of metallic hide
**With reinforced burning hooves perpetually stained by the blood of small victims
You really had to mention that...
If you don't already, you should read the webcomic Goblins.
Oh? I wasn't aware that the comic was still actiually about goblins, except in a sometimes kind of way. There hasn't been a peep from the goblin adventuring party in well over a real time year.
If you don't already, you should read the webcomic Goblins.Oh? I wasn't aware that the comic was still actiually about goblins, except in a sometimes kind of way. There hasn't been a peep from the goblin adventuring party in well over a real time year.
He is trying to build suspense and he did get married didn't he?
His personal life hasn't drastically affected the comic's schedule. I think its that Forgath, Min Max, and Kin were promoted from supporting characters to main in order to show the entire advenure in the maze. I like the story, but I've wanted to get back to the main characters for months and months.
He stated somewhere that the 2 Adventurers & a Monster (Sounds like quite a sitcom) Party is so he can plan out the other 2 groups next arc.
The Goblin's forum dubbed that group FMK. :)
That explanation actually makes sense though. I'm sure he wants the main story to continue in a believable way. The GAP (Goblin adventuring party), is kind of screwed at the moment.
Lets see we have the:
- FMK
- GAP
- What ever Dies's group is called...
Seems interesting...
There's one other group, kind of. The three players whose characters started out as drow?
There's one other group, kind of. The three players whose characters started out as drow?
Oh yeah that group!
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This is easy.
Goblin Musket Master Gunslinger, and Dragon Shaman Druid Kobold.
Goblin: Boorgub Boomstick, Male, Personality: Randall from Time Bandits, also, really loves pickles, and occasionally wears a monocle.
Kobold: Breadcrumbs, Female, Personality: Treetrunks from Adventure Time, also, loves to bake dragon themed baked goods, and dreams of serving a dragon, but blushes when she talks about it.