burkoJames |
1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
So at a recent con I got into a large argument with another player about the effect of lead blades on my small-sized earthbreaker.
My view: a medium sized earthbreaker has damage of 2d6. as per table 1-5 on page 18 of Ultimate Equipment (therefore RAW) so when a small earth breaker has is damage increased as though it were one size bigger, it does 2d6 damage.
His view: A small sized earthbreaker does 1d10 damage. According to table 6-5 on page 145, a 1d10 weapon does 2d8 when made one size larger. Therefore, no matter the normal damage of a medium sized earthbreaker, THIS medium sized earthbreaker does 2d8 damage.
I tried to argue that his rule is general, and the the general damage listed by Table 6-5 of the CRB is overridden by the specific damage for that specific weapon at that size listed on table 1-5 of UE. His position was that lead blades is special and MUST use table 6-5 because the spell text references the table.
For reference:
Lead blades increases the momentum and density of your melee weapons just as they strike a foe. All melee weapons you are carrying when the spell is cast deal damage as if one size category larger than they actually are. For instance, a Medium longsword normally deals 1d8 points of damage, but it would instead deal 2d6 points of damage if benefiting from lead blades (see page 145 of the Core Rulebook for more information). Only you can benefit from this spell. If anyone else uses one of your weapons to make an attack it deals damage as normal for its size.
While the argument was made void when the gm looked up the spell and pointed out that Lead blades is personal, it has far ranging effects. His way would make enlarged small weapons (via lead blades, impact, enlarge person, ect) better then an actual medium weapon. So I wanted the rules board to discuss this. I doubt it needs a FAQ, but I'm curious if the general opinion is that I'm doing this wrong.
kestral287 |
By RAW, yeah, you go to the table.
Given that you're paying for all of those ways to make the small weapon better-- via a spell or an enhancement-- I'm perfectly okay with averaging 2 more damage per hit. However, from a logic standpoint you do have a point.
Ultimately though, it tends to be a pretty minor thing. Most damage-dealers have much better things to do with their time, so unless your GM is letting you apply Permanency to Lead Blades it's a non-issue.
dragonhunterq |
Table 6-5 only applies to medium weapons. According to the table a medium weapon that does 1d10 damage would do 2d8 damage as large. Small weapons aren't even on the table.
Since table 6-5 isn't applicable at all, you can only go by the table in UE. A medium Earthbreaker does 2d6.
+1 to this.
here (and a couple of pages back) Mark is trying to codify the damage increase tables. He's asked for help, so if you are of a mathematical bent and like crunching numbers feel free to weigh in if you have some insight.
Nefreet |
This is the highest-ranking FAQ that has ever been in the queue.
The Design Team is working on it, but we may not see an answer for some time.
boring7 |
While the argument was made void when the gm looked up the spell and pointed out that Lead blades is personal, it has far ranging effects. His way would make enlarged small weapons (via lead blades, impact, enlarge person, ect) better then an actual medium weapon. So I wanted the rules board to discuss this. I doubt it needs a FAQ, but I'm curious if the general opinion is that I'm doing this wrong.
Well perhaps I am mistaken, but I think RAW says that a small weapon being used by a medium creature takes a -2 penalty to hit, even if it was enlarged.
I mean that's only a malicious compliance answer...
Also from a design perspective I think of how d12 vs. 2d6 stacks up on weapons that are supposed to functionally be the same and remember sometimes the tables are just ignored because, "eff you imma make wut ah want!"
Chemlak |
As someone deeply entrenched in the damage scaling thread (for the last few days, at least), I'm confident that a small manufactured weapon that does 1d10 does 2d6 as a medium weapon (or 1d12, the two are basically interchangeable). Since we have a medium earthbreaker on the chart, we know it's 2d6.