If you're a fighter, why would it matter if its a martial weapon or a simple one? Are you taking an archtype that removes your proficiency with martial weapons?
If it still matters, the trait requires that you worship GORUM! the lord in iron.
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http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/religion-traits/shield-trained
I stumbled upon this trait while looking up potential picks for my Sword and Board fighter and this just blew me away. I don't have the PDF myself and I'm not sure I want to spend 30 dollars checking to see if this trait has a specific deity requirement (as it is from Inner Sea Gods). Additional Resources says all traits from the book are legal, but can someone confirm this doesn't have hidden strings? Because this might be an auto pick for anyone making a Two-Weapon Fighting shield build (all three of us).You were trained to use shields as weapons.
Benefit: Heavy and light shields are considered simple weapons rather than martial weapons for you. Heavy shields are considered light weapons for you.
Source: Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Inner Sea Gods
http://www.archivesofnethys.com/Traits.aspx?Type=Religion
Looks like it requires worship of Gorum, per Archives of Nethys.
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It's threads like this that make me want to reiterate the usefulness of ArchivesOfNethys over d20pfsrd. The latter has had to change much of their content to avoid copyright infringement, but AoN is nearly always accurate.
People use D20pfsrd because of how easy it is to search. I use both sites. Most of the heavy lifting I do on the D20 then I switch to AoN just to finish. If you don't have perfect spelling or don't know what you are looking for AoN isn't the most friendly site.
Shield Master (which you will pick up at level 6 with your slayer talent) will do even better than treating your shield as a light weapon.
Also, you should consider that you should treat your shield as your main weapon (and you should because it will be better than your other one) and your other weapon should be the light weapon you dual wield with.
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Shield Master (which you will pick up at level 6 with your slayer talent) will do even better than treating your shield as a light weapon.
Also, you should consider that you should treat your shield as your main weapon (and you should because it will be better than your other one) and your other weapon should be the light weapon you dual wield with.
The other weapon is another shield, Claxon. What kind of a foolish warrior would go into battle with only a single shield for protection?
Well, in that case Shield Master gives you double the benefit of not taking the penalty for TWF.
The feat would work well until you could pickup the feat at level 6, but after that would be a waste. I guess it depends on how badly you want to dual wield shields before level 6 as to whether or not you should take this, and whether or not you can find a better trait to fill that slot.
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Yeah, I stumbled upon this as well. Like you, I nearly wet myself when I saw how great this is for sword and shield fighters with TWF.If you're a fighter, why would it matter if its a martial weapon or a simple one? Are you taking an archtype that removes them?I'm going to be playing a Slayer, but it's not the proficiencies -- it's making heavy shields to be considered light weapons instead of one-handed weapons, which means you can Two-Weapon Fight at less of a penalty with a heavy shield. Going from a light to heavy shield in your offhand while Two-Weapon fighting steps the damage die up one step and gives you a bonus 1 AC.
Or shield & shield for that matter. That way you'd only have to take 1 set of weapon focus/spec feats and get full advantage out of them.
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With Shield Master, there are no longer two-weapon fighting penalties for attacks with your shield, but the other weapon still takes them. Also, the critical threat range for a shield is not the largest there is. Getting a free shield bash on confirmed criticals is an important part of sword-and-board fighting.
So, if you want to use a one-handed weapon, and large shield, this trait is superb.
Or a Two-Handed Shield user in a class that only gets simple weapons, like Warpriest, Inquisitor, or Shield Champion Brawler.
I think Shield-Trained actually makes two-handing a heavy shield worse. The trait makes it a light weapon so it can't benefit from 1.5xStr and 2-Handed Power Attack.
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You were trained to use shields as weapons. Heavy and light shields are considered simple weapons rather than martial weapons for you. Heavy shields are considered light weapons for you.
Doesn't say you "can/may" treat a heavy shield as a light weapon, just that the character considers it a light weapon.
I read that as if one takes the trait, they're boned when wanting to two-hand/power attack combo a heavy shield because it's a light weapon and better for two-weapon fighting. A trade-off in benefits. Much like how mithral breastplate is a light armor and doesn't count as medium anymore for Defender of the Society trait (+1 trait bonus to AC when wearing medium or heavy armor).
I have to agree with Protoman. You don't get the option, it changes the class of heavy shields to light for the character with the trait.
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Mithral longsword is half the weight, still a one-handed weapon. Weight/encumbrance doesn't affect the light/one-handed/two-handed status of a weapon for a character. It's whatever the rules state it to be.
The rules state two-handed 1.5xStr and power attack don't work for light weapons, which the trait makes the heavy shield to be for that character that has the trait. "Heavy shields are considered light weapons for [that character]." Its light or one-handed weapon status for other characters without the trait doesn't mean anything to that character. So that character's use of Power Attack is dependent on his own abilities/limits with that weapon.
When a character with less than +5 BAB has Weapon Versatility on a longsword, he MAY use a swift action to change the damage type. Even though it's a slashing weapon, if he changed it to a piercing weapon, he still needs another swift action to use it as a slashing weapon again. Even if he dropped it and picked up that weapon again. Rules state he needs to shift his grip again.
A trait that turns a one-handed weapon into a light weapon whenever it's beneficial and still keeping it as a one-handed weapon for whenever that's beneficial? That's not what Shield-Trained is currently describing. The trait is currently worded that it does a specific thing for characters using a heavy shield, it's considered a light wapon for them. Not "they may consider it as a light weapon."
I'd like to think that shield-trained works that way also; but with the ruling on martial/exotic weapon proficiency bastard swords/katanas a while back, I guess the only other situation of a stated change in # of handed status on a weapon with a feat, I can personally only conclude that a trait would change the # of handedness weapon category unless it states otherwise.
EDIT: Though reading the FAQ more carefully, maybe you're right that if one is benefitting from it being light, then can't treat it as one-handed or vice versa.
Way I read it, it prevents its use as a two-handed weapon.
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If you take this trait "you treat heavy shields as light weapons". Light weapons gain no additional benefit from two-handing them over one-handing them per the rules of one handed weapons:
Light: A light weapon is used in one hand. It is easier to use in one's off hand than a one-handed weapon is, and can be used while grappling (see Combat). Add the wielder's Strength modifier to damage rolls for melee attacks with a light weapon if it's used in the primary hand, or half the wielder's Strength bonus if it's used in the off hand. Using two hands to wield a light weapon gives no advantage on damage; the Strength bonus applies as though the weapon were held in the wielder's primary hand only. An unarmed strike is always considered a light weapon.
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Yes, and I can elect to use the shield normally and not benefit from the trait. Just as I can use a Bastard Sword with two-hands even thought I get to treat it as a one-handed weapon.
Stop and think instead of being pedantic.
Rather than insulting me, please stick to facts. Lets lay out these facts shall we?:
1) There is no rule that states you can "turn off" the effects of any trait, feat, spell, race, anything unless it says you can.
2) This trait does not say you can turn it off. The typical verbiage for such a thing is usually something like "You may (or can) treat heavy shields as light weapons". This trait has a distinct lack of such escape clauses.
If you take this trait, by RAW, you will forever treat heavy shields as light weapons. There is no way around that unless you find some other effect to override that.
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1) True but then it'd be an improvised weapon and all that that implies (-4 to attack and all that). But you are correct that would be a way of getting the full 1.5 Str just at a to-hit cost.
2) It doesn't need to be a Supernatural ability for it to be optional. There are many feats and traits that use the verbiage I mentioned above to be optional (and therefore able to be "turned on or off"). Power Attack for instance.
3) ...you are as well. Though none of what I've stated was opinion it was all facts. For it to be an opinion it would have to have come from my own imaginings rather than being spelled out rather clearly by the book.
You are welcome to continue trolling if you'd like. I've answered the question above, and pointed out the "hidden string" the OP asked about. I'm out.
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Guys, can we keep the personal attacks out of the argument please? I can see a compromise that would let you choose to use the shield as a one handed weapon instead of light without retraining out of the trait or deciding to worship another deity.
The trait lets you treat heavy shields as light simple weapons, but they are still one-handed martial weapons. If you had proficency in martial weapons, you could still use that separate proficency to use the shield as it normally is instead of the modified proficency the trait gives you.
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So, now you can wield Huge size Shields?
This seems to have been missed or past over...
So, if the trait allows you to wield a heavy shield as a light weapon can you now use a large heavy shield as a one handed weapon and a huge heavy shield as a two-handed weapon?
I'd like to hear the answers/rationale.
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Though a little cryptic, applying a similar logic, the heavy shield is still a one-handed weapon, regardless of what traits/feats you posses: "Things that talk to its construction and physical properties are treated that way." If STR damage for two hands is based on the weapons construction, then using two hands would apply extra damage.
The only caveat I see is if a character doesn't have training with martial weapons, would you be subject to a non-proficiency penalty? Or put another way, do you have to be able to use the shield as a martial weapon to avoid a improvised weapon penalty when using two hands?
By that ruling - when you have this trait a heavy spiked shield would become the 2nd weapon which you could TWF with it only and get dex to damage so WF etc would apply to both weapons. (though not with both weapons like sawtoothed sabres)
I'm not saying that I disagree, I'm just pointing it out.
Edited: my wording was horrible