So who here is Super Happy about sticking with Pathfinder?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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John Templeton wrote:

What I don't get is some of the posts where people are quitting the entire game over the 'current direction' the company is taking its materials (usually pointing to gunslingers and technology).

It's like person, you don't have to use those books or material. S%#&, some people only play with the Core and Bestiary 1. Just because the publish it doesn't mean you have to read it or use it in the game your running or be part of a game that is having it.

Paizo APs do not interest me anymore and things like gunslingers and techno babble are anatema for me in D&D. Yes I treat PF as D&D thats why I picked it over 4E.

I have been playing 5E a lot as well, 10-15 hours a week. It is kind of fun but has its own issues and IMHO PF jumped the shark around 2 years ago.

Still playing PF but I do not enjoy it as much. I'm still waiting on that fixed 3.5 game I wanted to play back in 2008 as PF/4E/5E are not it.

14 years of 3.x type gaming. Just burned out and sick of the complexity and that is one thing 5E did get right.

Lantern Lodge

Perform: Oratory

"I am staying here."
Rolling polyhedral dice-
Natural twenty!


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Zardnaar wrote:
and things like gunslingers and techno babble are anatema for me in D&D.

You'd hate regular D&D then.

Seeing how 1e and 2e were crammed full of sci-fi shit. And Eberron was one of the biggest settings in 3e and 4e. And they're reprinting Spelljammer in 5e.


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I see a lot of distaste for gunslingers and outer space and aliens in pathfinder, but I've been loving every bit of it. My planetary romance/fantasy campaign dreams have come true. Granted I haven't been in the game long enough for "normal D&D" to be nostalgic but is everyone that attached to it that people who also want to play Barsoom can't cave a few books?


WoTC lost me as a customer with 4e. I bought the core books, read them, sold them, and started playing pathfinder.

WoTC was doing great, every system they built and released was an improvement upon the old until 4e, when they decided to launch WoW in tabletop format.

I don't really mind pathfinders bloat issues. It happens with every system as they age, and frankly I've loved almost every bit of new content. The only thing WoTC really has on Paizo is the IP. Pathfinder can't use a number of monsters that essentially robs the setting of some richness, but they have more than made up for it with new content.

The bestiaries trump any monster manuals Wizards ever put out, and on that note I just ordered my copy of Monster Codex, looking forward to this.

Liberty's Edge

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Orville Redenbacher wrote:
Oh my it got very 2008 in here all of a sudden!

Pretty much. We even got a 4E is not D&D but WOW as a rpg comment.


I'm going to play both. Pathfinder has a lot to recommend it, and though I feel like Paizo is sometimes a little bit slow to recognize the need for change, I can't really fault them that much in the wake of Mythic Adventures, and with PF Unchained on the horizon. They really seem to be thinking creatively now about ways to address the systemic problems the game has. Lots of good gradual improvements to PF Society, as well. Now if only they'd get a little more serious about balance...

I do hope they stay on their toes, because if 5E starts putting out some equivalent to archetypes (which would be very easy for them to do given the way the classes are set up) the customizibility advantage Paizo has could slip away pretty rapidly.

Basically, the main appeal of 5E right now is how easy it is to fix relative to PF. This is huge though.
1. Make advantage and disadvantage "stack" (so two causes of disadvantage cause you to roll 3 dice and choose lowest, etc)
2. Give a feat at 1st level in addition to the normal feats every 4 levels (and maybe go ahead and give ability bumps too on top of that).
There, you're basically done. For Pathfinder you need like 10 pages of tweaks.

Shadow Lodge

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Pendagast wrote:
i don't see a purpose to 5th , other than to attract players who have never table top gamed before.

It has largely the same purpose as Pathfinder...to be a fun game to play with friends, that explores the fantasy / sword and sorcery genres.

Shadow Lodge

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Marcus Robert Hosler wrote:

*Checks for 5e SRD*

What new system?

Oh noes! The have called their free online rules something different! It am too cunfuzing!

Shadow Lodge

I have to wonder, Marcus, do you know what Pathfinder is? It has a PRD, not an SRD. So it's possible you've never heard of the game.


Kthulhu wrote:
I have to wonder, Marcus, do you know what Pathfinder is? It has a PRD, not an SRD. So it's possible you've never heard of the game.

Why yes Kthulhu I am well aware that PF has both a PRD and a pfsrd.

I thought I explained quite clearly that being able to google "D&D 5e X" and getting sent straight to the relevant rules is invaluable in any-sort of rules heavy TTRPG.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The pfsrd is a fan-site.

Silver Crusade

I love pathfinder, it reflects my ideas about gaming, the world is beautiful, the modules are mature in story line and involved with characters, events tools to add to role-playing scenario and require more than go into unexplored dungeon, kill creatures, and take gold. The characters are unique, fun, and it is easy to play. The stories are engaging, intriguing with unique opportunities to role play and be rewarded for various different outcomes. The stories is what makes pathfinder fun, and the people who design these games create great stories, fantastic places, and I am enjoying every game, every detail. I love the mechanics of the game because they either improve upon an old mechanic, or create new ones that add style and flavor to the game that is unique for the world of Golarion and the gods, and planets, and planes that inhabit it. I thank you Paizo, the staff, the designers, everyone for the great job, and personally I am not leaving. I love the work you have done, and the commitment you have placed, it shows in your product and personally, I love the style and takes you have gone in the style of play that is Pathfinder. Thank you.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Kthulhu wrote:
Marcus Robert Hosler wrote:

*Checks for 5e SRD*

What new system?

Oh noes! The have called their free online rules something different! It am too cunfuzing!

You know the comparison is a disingenuous one though.


TriOmegaZero wrote:
The pfsrd is a fan-site.

So? It being allowed to exist is a mark for Paizo and Pathfinder.


Erick Wilson wrote:

Basically, the main appeal of 5E right now is how easy it is to fix relative to PF. This is huge though.

1. Make advantage and disadvantage "stack" (so two causes of disadvantage cause you to roll 3 dice and choose lowest, etc)
2. Give a feat at 1st level in addition to the normal feats every 4 levels (and maybe go ahead and give ability bumps too on top of that).
There, you're basically done. For Pathfinder you need like 10 pages of tweaks.

Good fixes for 5E. <hastily scribbling these down>

5E seems a good way to bring n00bs into the fold. Start with 5E and, since it's shaping up to be "version neutral" to a large degree, one can ramp it up to epic splatness if the group is so inclined.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Marcus Robert Hosler wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
The pfsrd is a fan-site.

So? It being allowed to exist is a mark for Paizo and Pathfinder.

I didn't say otherwise.

Shadow Lodge

Marcus Robert Hosler wrote:
Kthulhu wrote:
I have to wonder, Marcus, do you know what Pathfinder is? It has a PRD, not an SRD. So it's possible you've never heard of the game.

Why yes Kthulhu I am well aware that PF has both a PRD and a pfsrd.

I thought I explained quite clearly that being able to google "D&D 5e X" and getting sent straight to the relevant rules is invaluable in any-sort of rules heavy TTRPG.

Except 5e isn't really rules heavy enough to make that a necessity, in my opinion.


Erick Wilson wrote:

Basically, the main appeal of 5E right now is how easy it is to fix relative to PF. This is huge though.
1. Make advantage and disadvantage "stack" (so two causes of disadvantage cause you to roll 3 dice and choose lowest, etc)
2. Give a feat at 1st level in addition to the normal feats every 4 levels (and maybe go ahead and give ability bumps too on top of that).
There, you're basically done. For Pathfinder you need like 10 pages of tweaks.

I'd say it's got a bit more systemic problems to that. You've got binary skills, the abysmally slow feat progression (which, yeah, 2 fixes a bit, but doesn't entirely solve) all lead to a big lack of granularity which makes a lot of characters look like "race+class" and not a lot more.

Then you have the flatlined character progression which makes martial characters often seem like they ... don't really get better at anything.

I guess the last one isn't a big deal if you like playing a really gritty game, but if you're into epic fantasy (which third, fourth and pathfinder all are) it ends up looking a bit silly.

In the end I think 5e looks like it could really suffer from having too much of that being built into the engine itself, which makes it harder to improve later.


anlashok wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
and things like gunslingers and techno babble are anatema for me in D&D.

You'd hate regular D&D then.

Seeing how 1e and 2e were crammed full of sci-fi s~@@. And Eberron was one of the biggest settings in 3e and 4e. And they're reprinting Spelljammer in 5e.

It was all modular though or one shot type adventures like Expedition to the Barrier Peaks. Easily ignored for the most part.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

I like PF, but it's not the end all system for me. I also liked 4e, before they started doing Essentials. I like the new 5e stuff as well. I could play a sniper rogue and actually be a contributing party member thanks to my class features, not magic items or being babysat by a wizard. That's something 3.x/PF has never supported, and probably never will.
Mostly I play PF out of the convenience of finding a group, and because it's so familiar to 3.5, which I spent years playing.


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anlashok wrote:
Erick Wilson wrote:

Basically, the main appeal of 5E right now is how easy it is to fix relative to PF. This is huge though.
1. Make advantage and disadvantage "stack" (so two causes of disadvantage cause you to roll 3 dice and choose lowest, etc)
2. Give a feat at 1st level in addition to the normal feats every 4 levels (and maybe go ahead and give ability bumps too on top of that).
There, you're basically done. For Pathfinder you need like 10 pages of tweaks.

I'd say it's got a bit more systemic problems to that. You've got binary skills, the abysmally slow feat progression (which, yeah, 2 fixes a bit, but doesn't entirely solve) all lead to a big lack of granularity which makes a lot of characters look like "race+class" and not a lot more.

Then you have the flatlined character progression which makes martial characters often seem like they ... don't really get better at anything.

I guess the last one isn't a big deal if you like playing a really gritty game, but if you're into epic fantasy (which third, fourth and pathfinder all are) it ends up looking a bit silly.

In the end I think 5e looks like it could really suffer from having too much of that being built into the engine itself, which makes it harder to improve later.

A single 5th ed feat is worth 2-3 3.x type feats and everyone more or less gets several feats for free such as TWF feat tree, dex to hit and damage for free, ability to pounce/full attack after moving and keep moving for free etc.

Techincally you get less feats but you can do more with them as such without being punished as hard as PF. There is also things like no feat trees if you want to be good at archery you take a feat that more or less gives you precise shot and power shot in one. You can also cast spells in armor for free which is another "virtual" feat in 5E.


anlashok wrote:
Erick Wilson wrote:

Basically, the main appeal of 5E right now is how easy it is to fix relative to PF. This is huge though.
1. Make advantage and disadvantage "stack" (so two causes of disadvantage cause you to roll 3 dice and choose lowest, etc)
2. Give a feat at 1st level in addition to the normal feats every 4 levels (and maybe go ahead and give ability bumps too on top of that).
There, you're basically done. For Pathfinder you need like 10 pages of tweaks.

I'd say it's got a bit more systemic problems to that. You've got binary skills, the abysmally slow feat progression (which, yeah, 2 fixes a bit, but doesn't entirely solve) all lead to a big lack of granularity which makes a lot of characters look like "race+class" and not a lot more.

Then you have the flatlined character progression which makes martial characters often seem like they ... don't really get better at anything.

I guess the last one isn't a big deal if you like playing a really gritty game, but if you're into epic fantasy (which third, fourth and pathfinder all are) it ends up looking a bit silly.

In the end I think 5e looks like it could really suffer from having too much of that being built into the engine itself, which makes it harder to improve later.

A single 5th ed feat is worth 2-3 3.x type feats and everyone more or less gets several feats for free such as TWF feat tree, dex to hit and damage for free, ability to pounce/full attack after moving and keep moving for free etc.

Technically you get less feats but you can do more with them as such without being punished as hard as PF. There is also things like no feat trees if you want to be good at archery you take a feat that more or less gives you precise shot and power shot in one. You can also cast spells in armor for free which is another "virtual" feat in 5E.

Since most PF PCs tend to take the same feats anyway (point blank shot, rapid shot, power attack+ cleave) the PF options are a bit of an illusion IMHO.

Some of those decisions have caused issues all by themselves though IMHO so its not perfect.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Zardnaar wrote:
It was all modular though or one shot type adventures like Expedition to the Barrier Peaks. Easily ignored for the most part.

I find that to be true of Pathfinder as well.


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dmchucky69 wrote:

So I keep reading other threads where folks keep trashing Pathfinder in their enthusiasm over the shiny new game that recently has taken the gaming community by storm. It's kind of like going to one friend's house for dinner and spending the entire meal talking about how much you like another friend's cooking. It seems kind of distasteful to me.

I don't want to use this thread to throw that gaming system under the bus. What I do want to do, is find other posters that are staying the course with Pathfinder rather than jumping ship for 5th.

The purpose of this thread is to say thanks to Lisa, Erik, James, Jason, the other James, Wesley and the rest by telling them how great their system still is and why you love it enough to stay faithful to her.

I love the complexity of the rules, the well-written plots of the Paths, and the level of discourse the Paizo staff has always shared with their website visitors.

Who is with me, and why did you choose to stay with Pathfinder?

And let's try to keep the thread positive if at all possible.

The system will always be criticized, especially by those of us that like it. I don't really worry about it. If they are on the Paizo boards instead of the other forums then they have not really left yet. :)


Personally, I think the company is groovy and I enjoy the game. 5e is fun and has a lot of really cool stuff, but I'm not completely sold. I'm all for playing both, but mixing in my love of Shadowrun, and I can only get so many games in. If I had to pick one, I'd pick PF. If I had to pick 2, PF and SR. I like 5e, but there's just not enough room for every RPG in my life. Especially if they do functionally similar things.


I am sticking with PF for the time.

Sure it's got flaws: CR are a joke, class & feat bloat is huge at the time, some rules could need some slimming down or straigtening up etc. (looking at you, combat rules and skill-chapter especially)

But it's free, it's got the best customer support and piles of material.
It also has a huge online community dedicated and happy to share or help at the drop of a word.
Pathfinder is the first gamesystem I've GM'd in since the end of the 90's, (started last year).
I picked it because I though it was "GM-friendly" - I was right.

If I'm stuck on the rules, I check the forums.
If I'm stuck on the plot or out of ideas, I read the gazillion gm-blogs, story-threads, modules or AP's available.
If I'm still unsure: I ask you guys.

My players love how accessible it is: old-schoolers find it familiar enough,
so do mmo'ers and Gamers, some love it for the "standard fantasy"-feel of it,
while others love the extra "yeah, kinda tolkien, but with bombs, robots, airships,andalotofothercoolstuff!" available,
it's deep enough for the tactical dudes and fuzzy enough for the "artsy acting improv"-types.

But the point I guess is simply that it's fun.
And we make awesome stories with it.
And that's what a game should be for me (and my group).


TriOmegaZero wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
It was all modular though or one shot type adventures like Expedition to the Barrier Peaks. Easily ignored for the most part.
I find that to be true of Pathfinder as well.

Different expectations. AD&D sci/fi guns under DM control a player has more expectation of being allowed to play a Gunslinger in PF I find and AFAIK gunslingers are allowed in PFS organised play? AD&D DM says no guns and that is it end of story.

Dark Archive

I enjoy the guns and sci-fi stuff as they are both things I've wanted before in 3.5(just used the dragon magazine stuff and homebrewed). Pathfinder gives me everything I want in a system as a DM and a player(especially with the ACG). I get creatures(CR is a joke, but I tend to optimize my creatures and at that point the CR tends to be correct for the low to mid levels), Magic(Overpowered only if I let the overpowered spells be available), Technology(Underpowered for price, but available and overpowered for min-maxing), and a ton of classes that can be mixed to the point of making a character I've always wanted(Nature Fang Druid and Sanctified Slayer Inquisitor are by far my faves from the ACG)


I am not planning on picking up 5th edition. Wizards of the coast lost a lot of my respect with 4th edition, and my friends and I are having an absolute blast with Pathfinder.

If I wanted to go back to the roots of "Kick down the door, kill the monsters, take their treasure" then GURPS dungeon fantasy has me covered, and can be tailored to pretty much any type of variant to that I want... as well as pretty much anything else (what with it being a Generic system and all!).

So yeah, not caring about 5th edition. If a mate picks it up and runs a game I might join in to see how good it is, but don't expect me to drop everything and buy a copy.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

While I definitely am disgruntled with some of the newer products (i.e. Mythic Adventures and a few of the things coming out of the ACG) and have heavily complained about them, Paizo has my business for the foreseeable time. I'm way more unhappy still at WotC for obliterating the Forgotten Realms to fit into their vision of 4E.

Also, Pathfinder is in many respects a great game and the people at Paizo haven't yet used up their share of customer loyalty.

Dark Archive

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I'm probably taking a break from Pathfinder to explore 5th edition, both because I want to give the new system a test run and a real chance, and because I'm momentarily fatigued by Pathfinder. Guess what, that happens in almost all genres, hobbies, etc. and is not a sign that X sucks, just that versatility is good. I also play more than one board game or computer game, and even my most favorite game gets momentarily boring, if I don't play anything else once in a while.

What I've seen of 5th so far, it is the best edition Wizards have published so far FOR ME. Does it make it better than PF? No. It makes it different.

But while we are at the topic of editions, I'm one of the (maybe few) people who wouldn't mind seeing a Pathfinder Second Edition in 2-3 years. Not necessarily a completely new version, but something where the many options have been tuned, combined and collected in fewer places. Without using the Internet (thanks pfsrd) or HeroLab, it is currently very difficult to have a perspective of all the many (and wonderful) options available to you.

Anyways, this isn't a critique of the people working at Paizo, who do an amazing job.


Although I've looked, there's nothing (absolutely nothing) about D&D 5e that appeals nor attracts me in any way - and I've done a cursory look at the playtest, but even when I did I had a preconceived notion that I wasn't planning to switch no matter how good it was. And having looked, its all rather "meh" to me. If I actually had to pick the best version of D&D, I'd say it was AD&D 2e. As far as 3x type rules go, PF is the only version of that that I'd play. The direction taken by 4e and 5e is not where I'd want to go.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

I run APs and PFS. Since Pathfinder's the system for those games, here I'll stay. Also for the fantastic customer service.


Zardnaar wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
It was all modular though or one shot type adventures like Expedition to the Barrier Peaks. Easily ignored for the most part.
I find that to be true of Pathfinder as well.
Different expectations. AD&D sci/fi guns under DM control a player has more expectation of being allowed to play a Gunslinger in PF I find and AFAIK gunslingers are allowed in PFS organised play? AD&D DM says no guns and that is it end of story.

As far as I can tell from the forums, DM's ban guns all the time in the setting, so I don't see a huge difference here. Sure, they might be legal in PFS, but that only matters if you play in that.

To go with the original question, 5E looks interesting, but I will probably keep buying Pathfinder. I look the new directions they are taking with the game and the storylines (such as Iron Gods), and I have already invested a bit into the game. Alas I don't have much money for gaming materials right now, or time to play, So me "sticking" with something doesn't actually mean much right now.

Paizo Employee

I'm super happy to keep giving Paizo money. They're a great team that makes a great product and I'm way more excited about future books (Pathfinder Unchained and Occult Adventures, woo!) than I was past books (Ultimate Combat and Ultimate Magic? Eh).

There's a simple game I want, but I see more of it inside Pathfinder than in the later Next playtests or 5e as released. I don't hate their game, there's just very little I want there.

Which isn't even getting into Paizo's bread and butter: Adventure Paths. My players want APs. So many APs, in fact, that I might very easily still be running them with 6th Edition comes out. If my players start wanting D&D adventures in the queue, I'll take a look at them.

Coming back around, I'm very comfortable designing my own games and campaigns, so I'm only going to buy products I'm super happy with. I buy a lot of Paizo products.

Cheers!
Landon

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

Am I allowed to say I'd still play/run Pathfinder even if I found/created a game I like better? Is it madness to say my fandom for games is not mutually exclusive? That I'd still use Pathfinder content even if I used a different game system? Though, that game might be Sean K Reynold's Five Moons RPG, not 5th Edition.


I love the Pathfinder balance. As a GM, it's no problem to balance encounters for crazy rulemonkey groups as well as for scarcely rulesinterested roleplayers. You can play whatever you want... there are soooo many well done options for millions of different character options.

Even with mythic stuff, there's nothing a GM can't handle with a few well chosen rulings (BEFORE the players take the feats!).

Can't see anything in the 5E rules that's making me so happy to quit PF.

I don't want D&D5E, I want PF 2E :) And not too soon!

Just checked the 5E book... know what I liked most? High elven ability to cast one cantrip for free. Nice, stylish funny. Yoinked for PF as alternate class option.


Getting less and less happy with PF as FAQs come out. Many of the later ones just plain suck.


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dmchucky69 wrote:

Who is with me, and why did you choose to stay with Pathfinder?

And let's try to keep the thread positive if at all possible.

Pathfinder is the game I've made my commitment to, with both my time and my money. I've had more fun playing Pathfinder than any other game in the past 30 years. They are the only game system I want to play and I hope it stays that way for a long, long time.

Unfortunately, with the unnecessary ARG, the absurd Mythic rules, the outlier Unchained series coming out, psionics, expanded rules for laser guns and power armor, etc. its starting to look a lot less like the game I fell in love with an a lot more like other systems who collapsed under their own, bloated weight. I'm really praying they don't continue down that path...


I moved to PF when 4th Ed came out. I really like the 3.x rules, and wanted to stay with it and have new things coming out for it. I have an expansive library of 3.5 books, and now have a lot of PF stuff. I play and GM both systems regularly. Having grown up with The Other Game, I do prefer it's world and lore more than PF's. But, they managed to even mess a lot of that up in their zeal to make things fresh and new for 4th. So, PF's world and lore are growing on me, especially now that I've started playing Society games weekly.

I hope Paizo keeps Pathfinder in the 3.x rules set, and if there is ever a PF 2.0, that they make it a whole other game world and name. I personally don't want to see a Pathfinder 2.0.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
anlashok wrote:
[I'd say it's got a bit more systemic problems to that. You've got binary skills, the abysmally slow feat progression (which, yeah, 2 fixes a bit, but doesn't entirely solve) all lead to a big lack of granularity which makes a lot of characters look like "race+class" and not a lot more..

So in other words, a lot like old-school AD+D?


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Paizo and Pathfinder are fun. Simply put. My son and I love playing in our home games and we have a blast at PFS games on Sundays. I was an old school D&D and AD&D player when I was a kid. Got back into RPGs when it seemed like D&D was going through an identity crisis. So we gravitated towards Pathfinder, a solid, stable system that had great community support and was easy to start with the Beginner Box.

Shadow Lodge

Charlie Bell wrote:
I run APs and PFS. Since Pathfinder's the system for those games, here I'll stay.

I'd be willing to run any system that will run Shackled City.

Which is all of them.

Paizo Glitterati Robot

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Locking this one up. While it may be unintentional, these sorts of threads often dissolve into edition warring and sniping and general bad feelings all around. It might be a better idea to start out by not comparing to groups or individuals who are actively choosing a different system or style of play, even if they're being not-so-friendly about it (though, if those are baiting or abusive posts on our messageboards, please flag them). It may also be more a more productive thread if it the topic involved something more specific. We welcome all kinds of gamers here with all sorts of preferences. Let's be cool to each other, please :)

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