Half-Orc FCB for Brawler... What's the point?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


I don't know if anyone has noticed this as well; however, a brief search-fu has not revealed any results. I was looking at the Favored Class Bonus for half-orcs and the brawler which is as follows:

Archives of Nethys wrote:
Brawler (Advanced Class Guide pg. 71 (Amazon)): Add 1/4 to the brawler’s effective level to determine her unarmed strike damage.

The only time this FCB ever takes your effective level high enough to change your base damage is at level 16. At that point, who cares? The difference between 2d6 and 2d8 is meaningless as all your damage is coming from bonuses and not damage die.

So I ask, what's the point? Now, if it were to be change to +1/3 effective level, then you would actually see an improvement in your unarmed damage early. This would make the half-orc FCB worthwhile; however, as is there is literally no point in ever taking it.

Shadow Lodge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

I think the benefit is that you get damage increases earlier, not that gaining an effect level increases your damage immediately.

Frex, if you take the FCB 4 times, you count as one level higher. At 4th level, that doesn't boost your damage any. But at 7th level, when other Brawlers are still doing 1d8, you go up to 1d10.

At 8th level, you get another effective level increase. That doesn't increase the damage immediately, but at 10th it gives you 2d6 for your damage 2 levels early.

At 12th, you get another EL increase that doesn't increase your damage, but at 13th your damage goes up to 2d8.

At 16th, you go straight up to 2d10.


Benchak makes a good point. Still... Not a particularly good FCB, IMO. I'd still go with the additional skill point or bonus to CMD against 2 maneuvers of choice...


It allows multiclassing earlier if you're looking for a level of damage or you can keep 'on track' with damage while multiclassing a few levels in something else. So it looks like a good multi-class aid instead of a solid single class boost. Though as Benchak said, if you where making a 7th level brawler, it's the difference in dice. SO it could be a situational power boost.


True, you do pick up the damage a little bit sooner; however, I'm still not convinced it's worth it for the minimal boost. I think I'd prefer the boost to HP as melee class with only light armor proficiency.

True, it's situational if you're looking at multiclassing, but as you said, graystone, you have to get up to 7th level before you ever notice the extra boost.


Faelyn wrote:
True, it's situational if you're looking at multiclassing, but as you said, graystone, you have to get up to 7th level before you ever notice the extra boost.

Yeah, it takes a bit but it's not alone. For instance, warpriest can get 1/6th a feat so you don't see any benefit for 6 levels. It's not an exciting FCB but it's got it's uses. Myself, I say take Nemesis, Fast Learner and Finding Haleen so you can get +2 hp, +2 skill points AND the FCB per level. ;)


graystone wrote:
Faelyn wrote:
True, it's situational if you're looking at multiclassing, but as you said, graystone, you have to get up to 7th level before you ever notice the extra boost.
Yeah, it takes a bit but it's not alone. For instance, warpriest can get 1/6th a feat so you don't see any benefit for 6 levels. It's not an exciting FCB but it's got it's uses. Myself, I say take Nemesis, Fast Learner and Finding Haleen so you can get +2 hp, +2 skill points AND the FCB per level. ;)

Wow, that's an impressive combo!


Toughness is better than Fast Learner in every way, actually... But they stack, if you want to go that route... Overkill, IMHO.


Lemmy wrote:
Toughness is better than Fast Learner in every way, actually... But they stack, if you want to go that route... Overkill, IMHO.

How is toughness better than it? The front loaded 2 hp? Important at first but totally irrelevant at 3rd (where I like to start characters).

Toughness added though IS an interesting option. I can see some cases where the extra bump in HP could be handy. (such as a melee caster with AC issues)

PS: Fast learner also give access to Improvisation. On the right character it allows for in impressive bump in skill use.


graystone wrote:
Lemmy wrote:
Toughness is better than Fast Learner in every way, actually... But they stack, if you want to go that route... Overkill, IMHO.

How is toughness better than it? The front loaded 2 hp? Important at first but totally irrelevant at 3rd (where I like to start characters).

Toughness added though IS an interesting option. I can see some cases where the extra bump in HP could be handy. (such as a melee caster with AC issues)

PS: Fast learner also give access to Improvisation. On the right character it allows for in impressive bump in skill use.

Toughness gives you 1 HP per level (and frontloaded 2 extra).

So if you want to put your favored class bonus into skill points it matches Fast learner.

Toughness is not tied to Favored class so if you multi class Toughness is better.

Toughness gives you the option of gettign 2 hp a level rather then 1 hp and 1 skill a level, so again toughness is better.

Finally toughness gives you the ability to get 1 HP and Favored class bonus rather then restricting you to 1 HP / Skill point.

So toughness is signifigantly better then Fast learner because among other things even as a one dimensional feat it is more versatile... It does however stack so fast learner is not a total waste.


Ughbash wrote:


Toughness is not tied to Favored class so if you multi class Toughness is better.

Toughness gives you the option of gettign 2 hp a level rather then 1 hp and 1 skill a level, so again toughness is better.

Finally toughness gives you the ability to get 1 HP and Favored class bonus rather then restricting you to 1 HP / Skill point.

So toughness is signifigantly better then Fast learner because among other things even as a one dimensional feat it is more versatile... It does however stack so fast learner is not a total waste.

Multiclass: True, I'll give you that.

+2hp: didn't think of that so I'll give a nod to that too.
Restrictions: Debatable. I've seen threads with back and forth on the text and neither stance has been proven. It's why I like taking it with Nemesis as you get all three without debate.

So I'll agree it's over all better but significantly? Not for the combo I presented. (take Nemesis, Fast Learner and Finding Haleen) It's only possible benefit over Fast Learner would be trading 1 skill point for a hp per level. Needless to say, if you're taking a bunch of FC bonus options you'll be planning to stick to single class. ;)

Shadow Lodge

Another benefit from this FCB is that it seems to combine with Close Weapon Mastery.


EvilPaladin wrote:
Another benefit from this FCB is that it seems to combine with Close Weapon Mastery.

Not sure how it combines with archetypes that lose Unarmed Strike but keep CWM.


Secret Wizard wrote:
EvilPaladin wrote:
Another benefit from this FCB is that it seems to combine with Close Weapon Mastery.
Not sure how it combines with archetypes that lose Unarmed Strike but keep CWM.

You check the chart as if you where a brawler 4 levels lower. You take the FCB 4 times and it becomes 'brawler 3 levels lower'. Seems like the only way it makes sense.


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Ughbash wrote:
graystone wrote:
Lemmy wrote:
Toughness is better than Fast Learner in every way, actually... But they stack, if you want to go that route... Overkill, IMHO.

How is toughness better than it? The front loaded 2 hp? Important at first but totally irrelevant at 3rd (where I like to start characters).

Toughness added though IS an interesting option. I can see some cases where the extra bump in HP could be handy. (such as a melee caster with AC issues)

PS: Fast learner also give access to Improvisation. On the right character it allows for in impressive bump in skill use.

Toughness gives you 1 HP per level (and frontloaded 2 extra).

So if you want to put your favored class bonus into skill points it matches Fast learner.

Toughness is not tied to Favored class so if you multi class Toughness is better.

Toughness gives you the option of gettign 2 hp a level rather then 1 hp and 1 skill a level, so again toughness is better.

Finally toughness gives you the ability to get 1 HP and Favored class bonus rather then restricting you to 1 HP / Skill point.

So toughness is signifigantly better then Fast learner because among other things even as a one dimensional feat it is more versatile... It does however stack so fast learner is not a total waste.

You should take Fast Learner if you want one or more feats for which that feat is a prerequisite and you do not intend to multiclass. Otherwise, you should definitely take Toughness first.

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