The Future of Quests in PFS


Pathfinder Society

1 to 50 of 130 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | next > last >>
Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/55/5 **

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

So I have been now organizing PFS in San Antonio for a little over 4 years, in attendance comparison D&D 4th edition Org Play vs PFS Org play I have always had a larger attendance. That just changed.

Before we start out I would like to point out this forewarning post by Drogon in May 2013.

Ever since I started organizing here D&D has been dying, 4th edition never drew that many players and near the end it was barely running at all. While PFS had some up and downs we have been consistently running since I started organizing. I think the most players other then Conventions but for regular game days I had was a little over 20 people, while D&D could barely get 1 table going if that.

That all changed this week. For the first Encounters 5th edition event they drew in 54 players! I have never been near that for a regular game day (I have been at conventions), I literately can't compete with that because PFS does not have enough products out there that compares to encounters.

Encounters are similar to Quests. As they say on their page, Encounters are short weekly play program, geared for a casual play audience with short sessions each week. New Encounter comes out every week easy to fit in after school or work during the weekday.

I would love to see something similar to this come out from Paizo. They can build upon the Quests idea with different tiers and releasing one new full quest (5-6 short adventures) each month just like The Silverhex Chronicles.

I will also like to add that the Strong Org play put out there by WotC has also helped me, I had a few new players this weekend who joined me who started with D&D Encounters and wanted to play PFS as well so I am glad WotC is supporting their org play so strongly.

I am curious if other Organizers out there are seeing something similar out there as well or not seeing it at all? Also other ideas out there from you all on how Paizo can put more support into PFS.

5/5 RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Encounters is just a free copy of the first three Episodes(Chapters) of the hardback Hoard of the Dragon Queen adventure, that includes tips on how to break it down into 2 hour weekly increments.

You could offer any of the APs in a similar format while running it in home game mode.

At the moment WotC's AL has the equivalent of
6 scenarios with 2 more coming out 11/1/14 only available for Con or store play with no home games allowed
1 module - the Lost Mines adventure in the starter box
the first half of 1 AP Hoard of the Dragon Queen with the second half of the AP coming out the end of October.

Paizo has product options to match all of these.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Melbourne

D&D Encounters does seem to be showing some signs of popularity in my area, but that is to be expected. They are the shiny new thing and people are always going to have a soft spot for the 'original.' Bear in mind, however, that 4E's LFR started out with very strong support from Wizards but that support sharply diminished over a 3 year period. So by the time year 4 rolled around I was done as I felt Wizards simply didn't give a crap anymore, AND I WAS ONE OF THE REGIONAL WRITING DIRECTORS THAT STARTED WITH THE CAMPAIGN! It remains to be seen if Wizards has learned its lesson in this regard.

However, having mini adventures does sound like a good idea. I have been tying to get some week night PFS games going in the area, but none of our 3 FLGS want to stay open later than 9:00 on a week night. That means you would have to start a normal PFS slot by 5:00, a time most people can't make. They stay open later on Fridays but Friday Night Magic is hard to compete with. So having a 1-2 hour game we could start as late as 7:00 would allow us to do this.

Grand Lodge 4/5

I'm not sure how much information we can gather from a single data point. I do agree with trollbill that it being new has a lot to do with large numbers of people.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/55/5 **

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Brian Lefebvre wrote:
Paizo has product options to match all of these.

I don't agree with that at all, The APs do not work in 1 -2 hour formats like the Quests do or even Encounters. There is not reward after those 2 hours to satisfy that like Encounters does. Running a AP in 1-2 hour chunks would just be a long drawn out adventure that would take weeks to get anything out of it. This IMO is not a soltuion or even close to a equivalent.

Now the Quests do support this, but I am unsure how much support we will see from Paizo on this to be able to run these on at least a bi-weekly method.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/55/5 **

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Jeff Merola wrote:
I'm not sure how much information we can gather from a single data point.

I agree that was why I am asking if others are seeing this. Be particular interested in the Large PFS areas like Atlanta and Denver.

Edit: I was very surprised on the numbers they pulled in though, RPGs as a whole have not been pulling those numbers and for 4 years here D&D never got close to that for their Org play. D&D Org play was practically non-existent here during that time.

5/5 5/55/55/5

One data point doesn't make a trend. Sky firmly entrenched.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/55/5 **

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
BigNorseWolf wrote:
One data point doesn't make a trend. Sky firmly entrenched.

That is why I asked this:

Dragnmoon wrote:
I am curious if other Organizers out there are seeing something similar out there as well or not seeing it at all?

So repeating that above BigNorseWolf what is your data point on this what are you seeing in your area?

5/5 5/55/55/5

Dragnmoon wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
One data point doesn't make a trend. Sky firmly entrenched.

That is why I asked this:

Dragnmoon wrote:
I am curious if other Organizers out there are seeing something similar out there as well or not seeing it at all?

So repeating that above BigNorseWolf what is your data point on this what are you seeing in your area?

Well, even taking in multiple locations its still one week. There's a huge difference between getting people to play for a few hours and getting them to make it a hobby if not a part time job.

I haven't seen any organized play for it here but I'm kind of out in the middle of nowhere as far as gaming goes.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/55/5 **

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
trollbill wrote:
However, having mini adventures does sound like a good idea. I have been tying to get some week night PFS games going in the area, but none of our 3 FLGS want to stay open later than 9:00 on a week night. That means you would have to start a normal PFS slot by 5:00, a time most people can't make. They stay open later on Fridays but Friday Night Magic is hard to compete with. So having a 1-2 hour game we could start as late as 7:00 would allow us to do this.

We have the same problem with this in our area though one of our stores closes at 10pm. They run games from 5:30 - 10:00 but the tight hours make running more recent scenarios difficult and the 5:30 start make it hard for many to make it to. Having monthly quests would draw more players that would also draw more players to our longer game on the weekends.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/55/5 **

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
BigNorseWolf wrote:

Well, even taking in multiple locations its still one week. There's a huge difference between getting people to play for a few hours and getting them to make it a hobby if not a part time job.

But it is a good indication of possible growth, starting that large in comparison to where they were can only help them in the long run. Even if half of the players did not show up the next game or the months after that, they would still be larger then the PFS games.

But like I said, I am getting something from this as well, I was able to get some more players in our PFS game that Encounters drew in.

5/5 5/55/55/5

mmmm delicious gateway dru...erm. Games :)

Grand Lodge 4/5 ** Venture-Agent, Colorado—Denver

Being a regular at Drogon's store, I'm curious about what he has to say.

*sends telepathic message to Drogon*

Dark Archive 3/5

Wouldn't chanting
Replay! Replay! Replay!
work better to summon him?

Grand Lodge 4/5 ** Venture-Agent, Colorado—Denver

ARGH! wrote:

Wouldn't chanting

Replay! Replay! Replay!
work better to summon him?

Yeah, lemme try that.

Re-play...Re-play...Reee-playyyy.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

Although it isn't the RPG, Paizo also has a new organized gateway game with the PFACG. Although it's a card game, it brings players into the game setting, it runs in 1-2 hour sessions, and it can attract players that wouldn't otherwise directly jump into the RPG.

With that said, I'd love to see more things out there like Silverhex chronicles, that can introduce things in more bit sized chunks. I think silverhex is a better design to build on for future free game day content as well, allowing you to get players involved when they can't sit through a full session. (And making it a level 1 evergreen means it's good to run over and over the whole year.)

Silver Crusade 2/5

5th is going to get a lot of players. PFS is going to shrink some. In other news, water is wet.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Global Organized Play Coordinator

6 people marked this as a favorite.
David Bowles wrote:
PFS is going to shrink some.

We are about to add VCs in Argentina, India, and Hong Kong. We shall see......

The Exchange 4/5 5/5

Dragnmoon wrote:
Jeff Merola wrote:
I'm not sure how much information we can gather from a single data point.
I agree that was why I am asking if others are seeing this. Be particular interested in the Large PFS areas like Atlanta and Denver.

Here's the important number from Atlanta:

Participation in PFS is up from a year ago.

As far as participation in D&D, I don't have a figure - though others who spend more of their time in the gaming shops may have a better idea. Almost all public PFS game days in Atlanta are weekend games with one store running a weeknight game twice a month. (And one restaurant we take a private room at once a month.) Published schedules show D&D happening almost exclusively on weeknights.

PFS did significantly outdraw D&D at Dragon Con. Part was simply that the amount of space allocated was greater for PFS but I wandered into the D&D room a couple of times and saw only 3-4 tables running in the morning slots.

One thing that I am seeing is a lot more overlap between the traditional "geek" hobbies. Miniature wargamers joining into PFS. PFS players picking up a deck of MtG cards. Board gamers wanting to try out the Adventure Card Game. I know of several people who have played all the 5th ed. Encounters AND still come to weekend PFS games 2-3 times a month. My theory is that enough places have finally found the right mix of large space, low rents, good word of mouth, and disposable income areas to become "neighborhood hangouts" for people from 10-15 minutes around. Just a theory.

The Exchange 5/5 RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

2 people marked this as a favorite.

If a renewed D&D attracts new players into the hobby, that's good for them, and good for Pathfinder, too.

Right now, D&D has basic races, basic classes, and basic game mechanics. Right now, Pathfinder is a mature game system, with a dozen major hard-cover expansions. At the moment, new players can burn through all of the D&D Adventurers' League materials in a few weekends. Right now, Pathfinder Society had a deep history and a cool current storyline.

I'm expecting D&D to rope in a good chuck of new players into the hobby. Some of them will stay with D&D. Some of them will come looking to see what else is available.

I, for one, welcome all out new friends. Let's try not to be jerks when we talk about which system people like better....

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/55/5 **

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
David Bowles wrote:
5th is going to get a lot of players. PFS is going to shrink some. In other news, water is wet.

Not the point of this thread at all, in fact since 5th edition has started I have seen a growth (though small) in PFS play.

The main point of this thread is...

"Holy s&&* a 1-2 hour play format game drew an excessive amount of players for this area why can't PFS have more of that?"

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/55/5 **

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Chris Mortika wrote:

If a renewed D&D attracts new players into the hobby, that's good for them, and good for Pathfinder, too.

Right now, D&D has basic races, basic classes, and basic game mechanics. Right now, Pathfinder is a mature game system, with a dozen major hard-cover expansions. At the moment, new players can burn through all of the D&D Adventurers' League materials in a few weekends. Right now, Pathfinder Society had a deep history and a cool current storyline.

I'm expecting D&D to rope in a good chuck of new players into the hobby. Some of them will stay with D&D. Some of them will come looking to see what else is available.

I, for one, welcome all out new friends. Let's try not to be jerks when we talk about which system people like better....

Chris I am sorry please read the thread again and repost, you seem to be missing the point of it.

Though I do agree with your opening statement as I hinted at in my OP.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/55/5 **

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Belafon wrote:
Published schedules show D&D happening almost exclusively on weeknights.

There is a reason for that Encounters can only be run on Wednesdays, which is one idea I don't want PFS to absorb.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/55/5 **

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I guess it is my fault I picked a poor choice for a title for the thread.

Silver Crusade 3/5 *** Venture-Captain, North Carolina—Asheville

Dragnmoon wrote:
Belafon wrote:
Published schedules show D&D happening almost exclusively on weeknights.
There is a reason for that Encounters can only be run on Wednesdays, which is one idea I don't want PFS to absorb.

Okay, I'm going to have to buy a vowel on that. Why exactly is that the case?

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/55/5 **

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Nimrandir wrote:
Dragnmoon wrote:
Belafon wrote:
Published schedules show D&D happening almost exclusively on weeknights.
There is a reason for that Encounters can only be run on Wednesdays, which is one idea I don't want PFS to absorb.
Okay, I'm going to have to buy a vowel on that. Why exactly is that the case?

I have no Idea why WotC restricts their Encounters program to Wednesday only.

The Exchange 5/5 RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Dragnmoon, is your point that you want Paizo to generate more short, quest-style adventures and make them legal for PFS?

I guess I don't see that happening any time soon, and I'm all right with that. I think short adventures are important to grow the hobby and introduce new people to Pathfinder, but I don't believe they should be part and parcel of PFS.

I would recommend the five short adventures in the "advanced" Beginner Box set. They have stats for both the Beginner Box rules and for the full-blown Pathfinder game system. They're fun to play and easy to run.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/55/5 **

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I will say there was one slightly bad reaction to someone who got introduced to RPGs through WotC Encounters program.

One of the new players this weekend who only first played an RPG at the Encounters event had a look of shock when I told him that PFS normally lasts 4-5 hours a game. Though he still registered and played!

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/55/5 **

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Chris Mortika wrote:

Dragnmoon, is your point that you want Paizo to generate more short, quest-style adventures and make them legal for PFS?

I guess I don't see that happening any time soon, and I'm all right with that. I think short adventures are important to grow the hobby and introduce new people to Pathfinder, but I don't believe they should be part and parcel of PFS.

I would recommend the five short adventures in the "advanced" Beginner Box set. They have stats for both the Beginner Box rules and for the full-blown Pathfinder game system. They're fun to play and easy to run.

I will have to keep an eye out on the Encounters program, maybe it was a one time deal that they went from a very small handful of players (around 5-7) to over twice of our Local PFS numbers (They had 54 when we recently been getting into the high teens).

But I think it was a mixture of the ease of casual play (1-2 hours) and of course the big D&D name.

And the beginner box will not draw players and hook them like more quests will. There has to be a reward to hook them into the Org play, that is why I am talking about the quests.

I think there can be more Quests if Paizo wanted there to be.

San Antonio could be an isolated event, but I would like to see if that is true and see the experience of other organizers have seen posted here so Paizo can see them. That is part of the reason I asked for that in my OP.

If there is not a huge call for Forms like Quests, you are right Paizo won't invest anything into them.

I personally hate Quests, I would much rather play a Scenario, but I can see a tremendous use for them here locally at least.

4/5

Having recently played the quests I had a fun time and I think they were well written.

Quests work ok at lower levels, with the pregen PCs, to help showcase pathfinder to new potential players, while requiring a relative low time investment. Scenarios already suffer from the fact that any encounter without interesting (or unfair, depending on your perspective) mechanics is usually simply draining resources from a wand of cure light wounds and tapping resources that rarely ever run out. Quests take this to a much further extreme, in that you can use virtually any resource on the pregen and rest assured you'll have it back by the next quest.

If anything I'd like Paizo to keep doing what Paizo does well, and produce more scenarios, but we've had calls for that in the past. It seems like with all the growth PFS has had this would be a good thing (and many of us would welcome it quite heartily).

I don't think DnD adventurer's league will amount to much more than encounters did in the past simply because roleplaying games usually take 3-5 hours (for shorter games). I could be jaded though because I fondly remember playing with my roommates in college and we'd start around 6-7pm and go until 3-4 am every week… Good times

Lantern Lodge 3/5

Doting this discussion.

For my local area, Singapore. We are running a public PFS game at different locations almost every day of the week.

The number of players are quite constant and increasing.
BUT! There are some complains. Here are some observations:

1) Older players have remarked about too many new/cheesy products. I think its a build up of consumer fatigue.

2) The base game rules are very confusing for newer players. They often play many games with buggy characters. They do learn over time and such bugs like not realizing there is a fame purchase limit or not realizing certain feats/powers don't stack with each other, do get ironed out over time.

3) The time needed to take part in a game is discouraging some potentially new players. Those that are able to accept the 4-5hr limit usually play on.

4) There seem to be greater/growing interest in shorter scenarios. As some players seems to feel that any game that last more then 4 hrs, too long.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

We have quite a few people in my area interested in the new AL, and some people that will likely switch to it from PFS.

Personally, I tried sitting down with a group of friends and giving 5E a run through (just like we did when 4E came out), and we were thoroughly dissatisfied, FWIW. I won't be leaving PFS any time soon.

Err, sorry... I guess it sounds like I'm edition warring...

What I wanted to say was this: in addition to restricting play to certain days of the week (Wednesday, I believe, is supposed to be the big one) organizers have to plan out their sessions way ahead of time. One organizer was describing something like planning 6-8 weeks out in order to get a game together.

But, IME, players aren't that far forward thinking.

We utilize Warhorn in our area, and although we make an attempt to post PFS games a month in advance, most players don't sign up until the week or day before. And if someone drops, someone can take their place quickly (or just walk in).

Having to organize your players over a month ahead of time seems like a disastrous business model.

4/5

Personally, I like the 5e ruleset so far. Having playtested it a few times over the course of its development, I was already familiar with the mechanics of it. It didn't take me too long to make a series of level 1 characters for it once I got the PHB.

I went to D&D Encounters a few weeks ago to try out the final version. They had just started the second season so I wasn't behind or under-leveled in any regard. I think what surprised me most after being resigned from running 4e Encounters after roughly five years was the number of tables. There were at least 10 going, all to play this little two hour event. They were turning people away. In comparison, PFS in my local area has 4-5 tables every other week. I'm often playing/GMing there, lately been more of the latter.

Normally, I would chalk it up to 5e being the new "flavor of the month", but I had a chat with the head organizer. Come to find out that he's been organizing the event for years and made it a point of pride that numbers had been consistent as it was today for as long as he had been involved, even before becoming an organizer.

It's fairly easy for me to understand why. 4e was easy to pick up too for the most part. I feel as though 5e takes that a step further from my own standpoint since it incorporated alot of things many of us here would quickly recognize and understand without keeping things bogged down by the many tiny rules and guidelines that 3.X has that are often overlooked or flat out forgotten about. I find myself at times wishing Pathfinder wasn't as complicated.

The thing that really grinds my gears about WotC is their continued refusal to support online play. I like doing both in-person and online. The only reason I was able to get away with doing 4e online was because I was on good terms with the store I was running for and trusted me to not bring a bad reputation to their business. (Sad that the place is gone now.)

Would I give up PF for 5e? Probably not. At least not yet anyway. It's a grittier ruleset than 4e ever was right out the gate. My first tabletop days of learning to play 3.0 appreciates the nostalgia. There's alot of potential for development and growth for 5e, but that will take time. In the meantime, PF is my main squeeze as far as fantasy tabletops go but I am watching 5e with keen interest.

For right now, I need to try the new Quests, eventhough I can't help but snub my nose a little at it. Primarily just for how short it is. I am apart of that branch that likes sitting down for a full evening of game. It's hard for me to really get into it when the model is usually a bit of RP, skill check, and fight. Not necessarily in that order, but its how those mini-adventures usually go.

4/5

Dragnmoon wrote:
I have no Idea why WotC restricts their Encounters program to Wednesday only.

As someone who used to run Encounters, I can tell you that it all comes down to publishing costs and timelines. WotC prints all the materials for the retail stores to run Encounters, to which the store themselves usually receive about 10 business days before the current Encounters season ends.

A store could theoretically run Encounters on a different day (the tiny store I used to run for could get away with this, not the big ones though), but it has to be reported as run on Wednesday. This is because WotC doesn't want to waste any printing/publishing costs to stores that aren't bringing in crowds to the Encounters program.

I don't know if its still true today, however, WotC did provide the store (and subsequently me) the materials to run Encounters free of charge. Just from checking around the web, they probably don't anymore, instead deferring to a model like Paizo uses. If that is true, then I can only surmise that they are purely basing their play schedule on familiarity and/or sales numbers.

3/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I play Adventure league every wednesday. Personally I am nto a fan the game is too simple. The game system is meant to be very streamlined and easy to pick up. This appeals to many people that have not played in years or are new. It also has the pedigree of being D&D.

there is room for competition though, and competition is good.

If D&D shows new player and/or returning players these similar games that never would have come over to PFS on their own what harm does it do to PFS?
Now people that go from PFS to D&D adventure league and never play PFS again those is some slight hurt from that, but most people in that boat were done spending money on PFS as it was and were probably trying to leave anyway.

Now where it helps is huge. If people can stop being jerks about the faction wars and hating people just because they play a different form of D&D(I know many of these people, one of my former VCs), and share your PFS experiences witht eh D&Ders you will bring people over.

You will help grow PFS if you embrace both and show everyone a good time. Remeber is the people you play with that make a great game more than the rules set you use.

So if you want PFS to thrive and grow. My strongest advice is to play D&D avdenture league. Tell them abotu the crazy extra things you can do in PFS that D&D is not quite ready to handle on their own. It is for a more rules heavy type of people that want more crunch and complex to thier games. FInd those people and show them the difference and that they are welcome at both.

When I tell them I have a barbarian alchemist heroin addict that juices himself and does silly stupid things. I had two people from my advenure league group ask me how they can play PFS.

I have a friend named Greg Marks, he works for D&D. He wrote one of the new adventures for next. He plays every PFS scenario as well. There is room for both.

Scarab Sages 5/5

I've run one D&D Encounters (2 hour) as well as one Expedition (4 hour) and read quite a few more so I'm starting to see how they differ from what PFS is doing. I think it's fairly different and I tend to enjoy the changes. The first thing worth noting though is 5e runs considerably faster than 3.X/PF so you're going to be able to squeeze more content into 2 hours. I'm not sure how 4e handled Encounters since I never found 4e to be particularly quick.

One major difference is that the metaplot is spread throughout all the adventures. This season is about a dragon cult of Tiamat and every mission feels like a part of that regardless of which session you're playing. That gives the game more of a campaign feel vs the more randomness of PFS. As a player it's good/bad since you feel like you're a part of something, but you have more pressure to not miss a game. Having said that, it's not the end of the world to miss a game since XP is capped and you probably won't lag behind.

From a production value standpoint a PFS scenario, which granted costs money, looks quite a bit better than a Expedition which generally only has a single map in it. I haven't found the editing any better/worse though Season 6 hasn't been the strongest for that topic.

Locally, PFS is much stronger. We have a well-establish play base. We're in 5 or so stores just in the Indianapolis area. D&D is in 3 I believe. A PFS day is probably 2-3 tables with D&D Encounters being similar, but with Expeditions only being 1 table. I think there's something in both systems for everyone. If you want tons of crunch then I'm going to direct you towards PFS. If you're a new player or an older player (1e/2e/DCC or other OSR games) then I would probably point you to 5e. However, I don't see any advantage to being exclusive to one since they're both fun.

Liberty's Edge 4/5

I have to agree. D&D 5e is new. We'll see a year from now what the numbers are. But I have to agree that PFS is down a bit at least in my area. It might be that people more or get busy but some of the regular players have switched to 5e. And we lost two regular DMs.

Mike

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/55/5 **

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Can we please keep this thread on subject? It is not about losing players to 5E, but more about if Encounters short format helps 5E get players and if PFS should take something like that like expanding Quests beyond what they are currently. Nor is it about the rule systems of either Version of the game. Please keep any Vs war out of this post, that will kill the post fast.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/55/5 **

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I personally think Quests is a great way to draw in those casual players to PFS and even be used to draw them to the longer scenarios. They are great for time limited week day games.

The current 6 part Quest I could probably use and drag that out for almost 3 months of play (1 quest every 2 weeks), the only issue with it is the pregen only restriction which has caused about 90% of my current players not interested in it at all. I can still use it to bring in new players but I won't have the advantage of the veterans to help teach the new players, which is unfortunate.

One way I would love to see the Quests expanded is to move them to a tier 1-5 format, remove the pregen restriction and release four 6 part quests a year. Another way is to release 2 short quests a month that have a 6 part theme and 1 chronicle sheet for all 6 parts. Both of these formats would allow 1 small 1-2 hour quest to be run every 2 weeks.

Quests could be limited to Tier 1-5 only, with any play above level 5 restricted to scenarios/modules only. This would ease development of them and encourage moving to the longer game days.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 ****

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Interesting, I had a completely different experience with Encounters than Dragnmoon is describing.

One that was awful and made me not want to return.

It was advertised and being good for casual players with the ability to drop in/out at any time, and it wasn't.

It was like playing an AP 2 hours at a time, with an inconsistent group of PCs/GMs...

Heck, when I asked about playing Encounters only sometimes on the Wizards boards, a local told me that that style of play would mean "[I Am] just a waste of a player slot that maybe some else could use." Of course some other people came by for damage control later but I still feel like Wizard's claim that Encounters is a good stop by casual thing is false. It's the equivalent of an AP that you're only allowed to play in 2 hour chunks, at a game store sponsored event, in public, on Wednesdays.
I did have a much better time giving Expeditions a try at a Convention this weekedn though.

I'm super excited about Silverhex. I like the level 1 pregen rule for it. It and the Card Game are going to make our new player area at an upcoming convention awesome.

I'm glad you had a better experience with AL than I did and I'm sorry that Silverhex doesn't quiet do it for you, but I hope you appreciate a different perspective on Encounters style play.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/55/5 **

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Robert Hetherington wrote:
Interesting, I had a completely different experience with Encounters than Dragnmoon is describing.

I would not recommend Paizo use the same format as WotC for a 1-2 hour casual game. I think the Quest format is a superior format. I would like to see them expanded though beyond Tier 1.

Silver Crusade 2/5

Michael Brock wrote:
David Bowles wrote:
PFS is going to shrink some.
We are about to add VCs in Argentina, India, and Hong Kong. We shall see......

Locations may continue to increase, but current locations will almost certainly lose some players to 5th. I have already seen it happening in Ohio. However, the effects of this can be greatly mitigated by the awareness of this likely outcome. The bottom line is that I expect 5th ed to be eventually crippled by Hasbro's expectations of dominance.

Paizo Glitterati Robot

Changed thread title by request and removed a baiting post and reply to it. Let's try to wrangle this one please.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/55/5 **

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Thanks Chris!

5/5 5/55/55/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

The main problem here is you have three variables:

1) Shiny New system vs old system
2) 1 hour quest vs 4 hour scenario
3) Despite having won the last edition wars, pathfinder still doesn't have the brand recognition of Dungeons and dragons

So in that mix it makes it hard to tell if the quest system is something to expand on.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Melbourne

BigNorseWolf wrote:

The main problem here is you have three variables:

1) Shiny New system vs old system
2) 1 hour quest vs 4 hour scenario
3) Despite having won the last edition wars, pathfinder still doesn't have the brand recognition of Dungeons and dragons

So in that mix it makes it hard to tell if the quest system is something to expand on.

4) Hasbro, being a much larger company, has more capital leverage than Paizo. Though whether Hasbro will actually use this leverage for a niche product remains to be seen.

4/5 *

First - I agree with DragnMoon that the Quest format is AWESOME! for attracting new players, and can work as a great Encounters-style PFS game. For 7 weeks. And then we're out of material.

There is definitely a market for the shorter weeknight events - despite the issues with 4E, they still ran several tables a week at most of our stores, and not many of those folks moved over to PFS when I started our Lodge. Not because the players didn't like it - we see them at PFS tables at cons - but because 5 hours on a weeknight just doesn't work for everyone. It is either too early of a start or too late of a night for a lot of people (and I would speculate, for a lot of the younger players in particular).

I also agree with Chris that this won't change anytime soon. Development of a quest probably takes a good chunk of a full scenario, and there are only so many authours in the pipeline. (Yes, there could be more, but please, let us NEVER go down the "anyone can write local adventures" road. Very few people who think they can write, can actually write for a audience wider than their own gaming group. But I digress...)

I'd like to re-explore the "serialized Adventure Path" idea here for a minute. While you couldn't just run it in hour-long segments, you *could* re-design it to just "cut to the chase" for every session. I just ran the PFS-sanctioned part of Mummy's Mask, and it would *easily* work as an Encounters-style serial. Yes, you don't get a Chronicle after every session, but you *do* get to keep the loot you find until you get the Chronicle at the "end" of the game - so just like in Encounters, someone gets the magic sword and someone else gets the potion of magic-y goodness. A set of item cards and you are good to go!

Some APs would not take to this very well - I would guess that the more dungeon-crawl-y ones would be easiest to adapt. Maybe Mummy's Mask and Shattered Star?


I've been involved in D&D Encounters from March 2010 (when it started) until right before the 5e Playtest around August 2013. I came back in May of this year and started running 5e Encounters on Weds at my local stores back in August using the Hoard of the Dragon Queen Adventure. I've also played about 50 PFS Scenarios since playing in March 2013. I've also played in various Organized Play programs through RPGA, Living Greyhawk, Living Forgotten Realms and recently ran some 13th Age public play too.

I know Erik Mona talked about it in an interview at the beginning of summer that D&D's new edition would bring a lot of new players surging back to try it, and from everything I've seen at our store, it's absolutely true. The biggest issue we have is GMs. We only have two, and the other one prefers 4e so is still running that. I've been running a table of 7 players every week and having to turn some of them away because we don't have another GM at the moment. My experience when 4e Encounters was going is that we had about 4 tables and around 20-25 players on a Wednesday but we always had room for new players. A lot would stay and play for a month or two, then start asking about other games. The issue is that Pathfinder never took hold here because of...a lack of GMs willing to run in stores. There's a lot of home games going on with Pathfinder (including one I'm currently playing in) but you have to go about 35 miles away to find a PFS Game that only plays on Tues and Weds.

I think Encounters was one of the most successful things to come out of 4e. It's a good 2 hour format with an overarching plot that lasts for around 15 weeks that's perfect for the middle of the week for those with day jobs who can't stay out late or for new people to try out the game in little segments.

WOTC is developing both the Encounters and Expeditions (closer to what PFS scenarios are now) and I don't see why Paizo cannot do both. Yes, some players and GMs for PFS will see it as a compromise and probably won't play or run them, but for other players, it would be ideal. I played 3 PFS scenarios over this weekend, and saw a lot of players that normally play PFS playing the Organized Play for the Pathfinder Card Game instead, and at least 3 of them playing were our regular GMs for PFS.

This doesn't have to be a zero sum game. I prefer the hobby to grow and add new players or bring old ones back, and if both WOTC and Paizo have solutions to that, great, I'll point the players to either and let them choose. I'll continue to play both and bring new players into both Pathfinder and D&D 5e. As stated in previous posts, D&D still has the name recognition and can bring players in, and when 4e was being ran at the store, a lot of them went to play Pathfinder. I think that will still happen with 5e, but besides the breadth of options available in Pathfinder due to the fact of it's longevity, 5e and Pathfinder are closer in experience to a lot of players compared to Pathfinder and 4e.

I'd like to see some of the modules or APs broken down into 2 hour segment chunks or maybe going forward, some of the new ones developed that way. For those that play the regular PFS Scenarios, it might be something they'd be interested in or maybe not, but for new players or busy ones that would like to try it, maybe a 2 hour format is warranted.

1 to 50 of 130 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Organized Play / Pathfinder Society / The Future of Quests in PFS All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.