Here is why we need a TWO WEEK delay, Goblinworks!


Pathfinder Online

51 to 100 of 215 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | next > last >>
Goblin Squad Member

3 people marked this as a favorite.

As I hinted at, I don't think that the game will reach an agreeable lvl of what is MVP for everyone within 6 months. My biggest fear is that interest in participating in Alpha declines to the point that everyone finds and settles for another game. If things can be persistent, there is a reason to play. Establish a basic real economy that will drive all other things.

I am not sure how much influence we have over GW's agenda, but pushing for more features that add more bugs and wierdness does not seem like a good plan, IMO. Fix what we have. Get it working. Even get it more user friendly. I'll bet that is a tall order for a month's work, alone.

Goblin Squad Member

Bringslite of Fidelis wrote:

Establish a basic real economy that will drive all other things.

The economy is not really that functional at present, most people direct trade.

This is a combination of several factors.

1) virtually everyone in alpha is a would be crafter and hoards everything just in case they want to craft with it one day
2) searching on the AH is frustrating and time consuming so if you list something unusual like +3 golden crystals no-one even knows they are there
3) generally anything useful listed on the AH is gone immediately. Whilst there is always some stuff in stock it is either overpriced (such as iron ore for 30c meaning a generic suit of pot iron would cost about 600c to make) or relatively useless items like recipes for ammunition and bombs

Goblin Squad Member

I'll bet if the AH was more user friendly, it would see much more use. That is part of fixing and improving what we already have before piling more features of similar iterative (is that a word?) level on top, so you end with a mess of bugs and difficult (at best) to use features that barely (at best) work.

Edit: If I thought that an extra 2 weeks would get the game to a place with those listed features and working well, I would be very much in favor of everything Cheatle proposed. I think it is (at least what I just wrote) an unrealistic expectation within that time frame.

Goblin Squad Member

48 hours is to short when the economy is just trying to launch. Scale it back to that later if that is really what you think is needed, but until the houses are stocked and people are using them regularly, it is a prohibitive policy for relisting items that don't sell first time.

Goblin Squad Member

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I think that saying we need a two week delay is the wrong way to go about it. We should focus on listing the things that we feel need fixing, and the things we feel are essential but absent, in order to achieve an acceptable level for pay to play. GW can decide if they can do that by a specific date or not, and whether they are willing to delay to accommodate our suggestions.

As an aside, any discussion of how much GW has or needs is pretty ridiculous from anyone who's not party to the accounts, business plan, and any conditions attached to investor funds.

(edit: And people seem to like to ignore that EE is not the start of some large revenue stream. The vast majority of us have two or more months of free play, some more than a year x multiple accounts, all of it already included in existing funds. It's unlikely (unless they have a breakthrough in attracting new people) that they'll see any significant new revenue until at least 60 days after EE, more likely 120-180 days on average. EE is almost certainly not the date that they are most worried about, it is simply a function of the date that really matters.)

Goblin Squad Member

I am hoping for another random teleport. Last time was 2 hexes south of Phaeros. I need to get back to Tavernhold. Most everything will be closer!

Talk about grinding. Alll my crafting has gone away tonights in a row.

Suggestion Roll back to version 9. It was more stable.

Goblin Squad Member

3 people marked this as a favorite.

The reason I play less each new build of alpha isn't bugs or lack of X feature, it's because none of what I do is persistent. The game will be going though massive and many currently unknown changes for the next 18 months; there's no knowable Goldilocks spot to aim for that has just the right amount of features to begin EE.

Chalk up one more for fix the major gameplay breaking bugs and send us into EE. Gushers and player looting at the top of the list for what to work on after that.

Goblin Squad Member

Lam wrote:

I am hoping for another random teleport. Last time was 2 hexes south of Phaeros. I need to get back to Tavernhold. Most everything will be closer!

Talk about grinding. Alll my crafting has gone away tonights in a row.

Suggestion Roll back to version 9. It was more stable.

That would be new and pleasant, wouldn't it? A teleport in the right direction. :)

Goblin Squad Member

I think most people can agree the bugs need to be fixed, after that it seems looting, encumbrance, gushers, and combat fall in line.


Bringslite of Fidelis wrote:
Lam wrote:

I am hoping for another random teleport. Last time was 2 hexes south of Phaeros. I need to get back to Tavernhold. Most everything will be closer!

Talk about grinding. Alll my crafting has gone away tonights in a row.

Suggestion Roll back to version 9. It was more stable.

That would be new and pleasant, wouldn't it? A teleport in the right direction. :)

I got one of those tonight! Then it rolled me back to where I was before the helpful teleport :/

Server Stability is the main thing that I would want to see before EE starts. Everything else will come in its own good time. Much of it is hardly going to be important for the first week or two of EE, anyways, as we will all be just getting settled in for the long-haul.

Goblin Squad Member

sspitfire1 wrote:


Much of it is hardly going to be important for the first week or two of EE, anyways, as we will all be just getting settled in for the long-haul.

Given the rapid rate of change in Alpha I am inclined to sit out the first few weeks and see what settles. Sure there are situations like the recent craft XP nerf where you might regret not spending that XP in a timely fashion, however what is more likely is you will waste XP on feats or abilities that are devalued or even rendered unnecessary by random game changes.

Goblin Squad Member

After fiddling with some calculation I withdraw my support for any delay. With the recent craft nerfing I can live with random teleports, lack of husks and whatever.
I just want to begin to save up XP, the only resaon I continue to play now is that it is for the benefit of the game, finding bugs and such.
If there is still a dysfunctional game at the end of my KS included time, then I will have to consider the economy, but that I bother with when I happens.

The vapor-advancement of my character begins to gnaw on my gamer soul, character development has always been at the core of my gaming interest.

Goblin Squad Member

There is nothing to say that your XP will not suffer nor that the training you did will be remembered or the achievements will be remembered nor trades you made for special itesm rolled back. If you traded for armor and weapon and that trade went away and the seller now wants twice as much, …..

Goblin Squad Member

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Yah teh crafting nerf is decidedly odd and counterproductive.

Despite all the claims that it is not going to be a "login once a week and spend your XP" game it seems to be catering to exactly the people who complained about not being able to do just that. you now either log your crafter in weekly after level 6 or build a fighter and have a no effort low to mid level crafting sideline.


I think looting and encumbrance will have a huge effect on gameplay and player behavior, just as much as adding the towers did - mainly because it will drastically alter what people will do while they play and how they think about character death and its consequences.

With that said, I'd put my vote towards having those things expedited to the top of the list of things to do before EE, or at least prioritized above other items deemed non-essential for EE.

Goblin Squad Member

I am hoping we can actually carry a LOT of raw resources, but not that much finished or refined items. Not only would it suck to have to return to town for every 50 Iron ore you are carrying, but it also makes things a bit more interesting for looters, when players choose (or get careless) to do longer harvesting sessions. I.e. the choice to take a risk, rather then being obliged to return to town every 30 minutes.

I guess carrying-capacity will be something we can increase too with feats in the future.

I agree that Looting and Encumbrance will be a gamechanger.

Goblin Squad Member

Actually, Tyncale, I'm of the opposite opinion, I hope we don't be able to carry that much raw material.
Because if each harvester party can carry a substantial amount of raw material, there is a possibility of a kind of manufacturial system, (as there is no limitation of how many that can craft at the same time), thus making low level drops essentially worthless.
If there is a transport constraint it also forces people out of the settlement more often.
I guess it can be quite frustrating to high level PeVePs to not have all the +3 equipment to fully utilise all their precious feats (I haven't fully grokked that part of the system yet so I guess I lack insight in exactly how painful it is). But I hope equipment on all levels will be useful (please arrows arrows arrows!) and that Longsword +2 never become starter equipment.


+2/3 equipment isn't *that* hard to produce schedim, particularly for large, organized groups. As long as people keep their weapons/armor threaded, don't carry around equipment they aren't using, and play cautiously in groups, +2 gear could quite easily become the go-to.

Goblin Squad Member

Schedim, I understand your concern about low level items becoming too abundant, however there are several mechanics in place that will work better in curbing this, then limiting harvesters too much in what they can carry. For instance, hexes can become depleted, so the resource flow stops temporarily in a Hex. Also items will be destroyed on death and even threaded items (that stay on your character on death) will sustain durability loss.

I agree that Refined goods and Crafted goods are a different matter when it comes to encumbrance, since transporting these should be harder: this is what the Caravan system is for. A concerted effort.

I guess there is a balance to be found here, I agree that players should not be able to carry around thousands of Raw materials. Though that would mean they have been depleting several hexes, and are *very* juicy PvP targets indeed.

I guess stuff like this can be tweaked big time by adjusting the weight of Raw materials. I just hope players do not have to return after every 20 Iron ore, since realistically, that could be pretty heavy already. :)

Goblin Squad Member

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Encumbrance starts at 20 and can be upgraded permanently to 70 (read: xp spent on Encumbrance?). Long term buffs can add 25.

There are 4 possible container slots, and containers range from 3 (low Tier 1, I'd guess) to 27 (high Tier 3). So containers can add 12 to 108 encumbrance. Total encumbrance therefore ranges from 20 to 203 ("about 200").

If one iron ore is something like 0.5 encumbrance, we might be returning to town pretty often. We might also be willing to plunk down some coin for some bags.

source

Goblin Squad Member

Yes, Fierywind, I guess it is, I have only played for a week (with this huge XP bonus, but anyway) and I have already begun to crank out Battleaxes +1 as a one man show. What is the limitation, coal!
And if I can get a Steel Ingot +1 I think they will become Battleaxe +2, so the limitation is also recipes of the refined material.
But I would prefer an economy where you get a Sword+3 when you need it, not that every newcomer get five Sword+3 to "grow in to".
But time will show, especially if weird and really hard worked materials show up and "congest" the master crafters for days.... Perhaps with exotic keywords suitable only for the greatest (and most specialised heroes).

What is the highest level attained so far in the game, do anyone know?


8 Is the maximum for any role/feat currently, due to limitations on what npc trainers can train. With the next patch, and towers being able to upgrade settlements, we should start seeing lvl 9s. 10 is unlikely unless EE gets delayed and thus alpha extended.

@Urman yea, that's what's been discussed previously, but I'm not sure if the specific numbers are still current.

Goblin Squad Member

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Schedim wrote:


But time will show, especially if weird and really hard worked materials show up and "congest" the master crafters for days.... Perhaps with exotic keywords suitable only for the greatest (and most specialised heroes).

This is certainly a factor, I think. I know I would not want to waste my queues as a Level 20 Weaponcrafter, by filling them up with Tier 1 jobs.

A simple +2 Hide and Banded Tier 1 armor already takes up 13 hours of a queue. This is probably less for a level 20 crafter, at a high level facility, but still.

As an aside, I think one thing that could become somewhat abundant at some point, is +3 refined goods. I expect a lot of Master Refiners to go for those +4 and +5 "lucky rolls" by making batch after batch of +3 stuff so they can make +4 and +5 items(or sell the refined goods). This will create an abundance of +3 refined goods that may flood the markets, for low prices.

I wonder how many +1 and +2 items will be hitting the market, since any crafter with +3 recipes will be able to crank out a lot of +3 items for cheap then. It could be that a newbie may see more +3 items for sale in the AH, then +1 and +2 items, and for cheaper.

And the fact that a Newbie can actually *use* these +3 weapons (though not to their full effect) will make it less likely that crafters will want to make those +1 and +2 items anyway.

Personally, I think there is too litle difference between the quantities of resources that the respective tiers of +1, +2 etcetera need.

Take Weak Varnish: Weak Varnish 0 needs 5,5,5 of three different resources, Weak Varnish +1 needs 6,6,6 of them, Weak Varnish +2 needs 7,7,7, and Weak Varnish +3 needs 8,8,8. These differences are too small to try to become more efficient with your raw resources, imo.
So people will go for the +3 batch, especially since you can mix and match these with lower quality resources, for instance making a +1 Longbow, even if you do not have the +1 recipes for the other ingredients of the longbow. And making a +3 batch has the huge advantage of possibly creating a +4 or +5.

I also have no illusions about how long it will take to collect those +3 recipes, so that will not do much gating here.

So I think +3 refine recipes should require relatively more raw resources, like 50% more or some. +1 and +2 should not differ too much imo.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

A level 20 with very high quality facilities would have to be meeting a crazy demand to have his queue congested with T1 stuff. That being said, there's likely to be people who level crafting up to just 4-5, to meet those low-level demands.

It could very well be the case that +3 refined goods will flood the market...TEO had well over 2k +3 steel wire leftover from making one +4 armor. That shouldn't mean +3 items will be sold for less than +1/2, though, because as the cost of refined goods drops, so will the cost of producing +1/2 items (you can just substitute +0 or +1 refined goods). That's not to mention the fact that even if the cost of producing specifically +3 items dropped, the price of +1/2 items would drop anyways, because their price would have to be lower than that of +3 items to sell them.

Also, in your example, the +3 varnish requires 60% more resources than the +0, so your 50% figure might need to be much higher if you feel that's still too low.

Goblin Squad Member

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Fierywind wrote:

. That shouldn't mean +3 items will be sold for less than +1/2, though, because as the cost of refined goods drops, so will the cost of producing +1/2 items (you can just substitute +0 or +1 refined goods). That's not to mention the fact that even if the cost of producing specifically +3 items dropped, the price of +1/2 items would drop anyways, because their price would have to be lower than that of +3 items to sell them.

Also, in your example, the +3 varnish requires 60% more resources than the +0, so your 50% figure might need to be much higher if you feel that's still too low.

Yes, I meant 50% higher then the +2 recipe, not the +0 recipe. :) So I think Weak Varnish +3 should require something like 11,11,11 or some. So a good step up from the +2 requirements, because the +3 is the gateway to the +4 and +5 items.

Your first point is a good one, +3 refined goods will be bought and then used by lower level crafters (or crafters with only the lower + recipes) to make +1 and +2 items. Though this will completely destroy any market for +1 and +2 refined goods. And at some point, +3 refined goods may become so cheap that a low level crafter would be foolish to expend any raw resources to create lower quality refined goods himself. Now he is competing with crafters who can produce +3 items, while he can only produce +1 or +2 items, while both have access to the same cheap +3 refined goods. But the lower skilled crafter will have to put up his measly +2 sword at a lower price then the +3 sword, even though the cost of making were the same.

So I still think that making +3 refined goods more expensive to produce, is a good way of tweaking this flow of +3 refined goods into the market. Once this game gets rolling, the demand for +4 and +5 stuff will be huge imo. Won't happen right away though.

And Wow! to this:

Quote:
TEO had well over 2k +3 steel wire leftover from making one +4 armor.

I am impressed. :) It does put the finger nicely on the sore spot though.

Goblin Squad Member

I completely agree Tyncales thoughts on the need forgreater increased material needs for + items. But perhaps not only more of the same, but an expanded _number_ of materials. With the uneven distribution of stuff, this could actually be of greater effect than the increased amount of a material.
If each plus adds one material, and here I thinking of just one unit, not increasing like the other base material. It would indeed make things interesting/complicated.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

What would you add to the refining of +3 pine batons?

Goblin Squad Member

Perhaps hardening using of magic order essence, extra support by steelwires and runes written with green ink ...

Perhaps tempering the wood with weak acidic elixir after being scrubbed with brimstone and lastly dipped in potent lampoil ....

Or a pommel of an azure crystal, fasten in a silver clasp and treated with potent nettles...

Or actually all three reciep could exist ...

Goblin Squad Member

If they are going to do 2 weeks, may as well wait for the new year. With the holidays and extra work hours for most people.

Scarab Sages Goblin Squad Member

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Xeen wrote:
If they are going to do 2 weeks, may as well wait for the new year. With the holidays and extra work hours for most people.

Two weeks? Okay, I can wait that long, if major bugs will be fixed.

Two months? No, thank you. I'm ready to ditch this disposable character and start playing for real, even if there are still some bugs.

Goblin Squad Member

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Given the radio silence here (and other places), I'm guessing that GW as a whole is frantically working on getting this big mamma jamma out the door. I doubt there will be a delay.

Goblin Squad Member

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'm ok with no delay, even without a single other thing added, if the baleful teleports, rock to mud spells dropping me through the world, and ethereal filtchers are all caught and killed.

Goblin Squad Member

Jakaal wrote:
I'm ok with no delay, even without a single other thing added, if the baleful teleports, rock to mud spells dropping me through the world, and ethereal filtchers are all caught and killed.

^ - That. If we have to wait 2 weeks before that's fixed, I'll gladly do so. Had another guildmate experience a rollback as well.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

Schedim wrote:

Perhaps hardening using of magic order essence, extra support by steelwires and runes written with green ink ...

Perhaps tempering the wood with weak acidic elixir after being scrubbed with brimstone and lastly dipped in potent lampoil ....

Or a pommel of an azure crystal, fasten in a silver clasp and treated with potent nettles...

Or actually all three reciep could exist ...

That's a good description of a wand recipe. Higher quality refined materials would provide lots of the flavorful description you use.

But pine batons are still made out of pine, it's just that you have to waste 30% or so of your logs to get only the +3 batons out of them.

Goblin Squad Member

DeciusBrutus wrote:
Schedim wrote:

Perhaps hardening using of magic order essence, extra support by steelwires and runes written with green ink ...

Perhaps tempering the wood with weak acidic elixir after being scrubbed with brimstone and lastly dipped in potent lampoil ....

Or a pommel of an azure crystal, fasten in a silver clasp and treated with potent nettles...

Or actually all three reciep could exist ...

That's a good description of a wand recipe. Higher quality refined materials would provide lots of the flavorful description you use.

But pine batons are still made out of pine, it's just that you have to waste 30% or so of your logs to get only the +3 batons out of them.

The +3 baton recipes are relatively easy to come by. The +3 poles less so but still available.

Of course +3 wands and staffs are useless unless you train the cantrips to level 5 and in addition match cantrip type to weapon type (diminishing/psychic etc etc).

On the wizzie crafting front the real sticking point is the green for better spellbooks.

Each Apprentice Spellbook +3 needs 11 lots of +3 ink which in turn need 8 green - so 88 Green ( a hard to get component) is needed for one good but still only T1 spellbook.

Scarab Sages Goblin Squad Member

Neadenil Edam wrote:
DeciusBrutus wrote:
Schedim wrote:

Perhaps hardening using of magic order essence, extra support by steelwires and runes written with green ink ...

Perhaps tempering the wood with weak acidic elixir after being scrubbed with brimstone and lastly dipped in potent lampoil ....

Or a pommel of an azure crystal, fasten in a silver clasp and treated with potent nettles...

Or actually all three reciep could exist ...

That's a good description of a wand recipe. Higher quality refined materials would provide lots of the flavorful description you use.

But pine batons are still made out of pine, it's just that you have to waste 30% or so of your logs to get only the +3 batons out of them.

The +3 baton recipes are relatively easy to come by. The +3 poles less so but still available.

Of course +3 wands and staffs are useless unless you train the cantrips to level 5 and in addition match cantrip type to weapon type (diminishing/psychic etc etc).

On the wizzie crafting front the real sticking point is the green for better spellbooks.

Each Apprentice Spellbook +3 needs 11 lots of +3 ink which in turn need 8 green - so 88 Green ( a hard to get component) is needed for one good but still only T1 spellbook.

If +3 wands and staffs are readily available, and only marginally more expensive than +0, then they're far from useless. A new character wouldn't get the benefit of the extra keywords, but provided that they didn't die 21 times along the way, they could grow into the wand or staff as they purchased more ranks in their cantrips.

Personally, I hope that GW can somehow prevent the drive to make +4 and +5 items from turning +3 items into cheap handouts for first day characters. That would make it very difficult for new, low-level crafters to enter the market.

Goblin Squad Member

If +3 wands and staffs are readily available, and only marginally more expensive than +0, then they're far from useless. A new character wouldn't get the benefit of the extra keywords, but provided that they didn't die 21 times along the way, they could grow into the wand or staff as they purchased more ranks in their cantrips.

Interesting concept. Prudence pushes me to advise not risking wear on gear that is beyond your full ability. Probably because +3 Tier1 is what we have for "top gear"(not counting +4 or +5) right now and likely the best that most will see for the duration of the alpha.

On the other hand, I do realize that +3 Tier1 is just the best of the least and will probably turn out reasonably priced when/if the economy stabilizes a bit. Why worry about it? ;)

Scarab Sages Goblin Squad Member

Bringslite of Fidelis wrote:

If +3 wands and staffs are readily available, and only marginally more expensive than +0, then they're far from useless. A new character wouldn't get the benefit of the extra keywords, but provided that they didn't die 21 times along the way, they could grow into the wand or staff as they purchased more ranks in their cantrips.

Interesting concept. Prudence pushes me to advise not risking wear on gear that is beyond your full ability. Probably because +3 Tier1 is what we have for "top gear"(not counting +4 or +5) right now and likely the best that most will see for the duration of the alpha.

On the other hand, I do realize that +3 Tier1 is just the best of the least and will probably turn out reasonably priced when/if the economy stabilizes a bit. Why worry about it? ;)

That's true. When everything is in place, there will be 12 versions of each item beyond Tier 1 +3.

Goblin Squad Member

Bringslite of Fidelis wrote:


Interesting concept. Prudence pushes me to advise not risking wear on gear that is beyond your full ability. Probably because +3 Tier1 is what we have for "top gear"(not counting +4 or +5) right now and likely the best that most will see for the duration of the alpha.

yeah --- but the thing is you end up making +3 anyway because its simpler.

Example:

I can currently make +2 and +3 steel plates. The difference is 14 coal/iron for +2 plates or 16 coal/iron for +3 plates. (The +3 plates also take a bit longer, 20 minutes longer per batch of 5 or some such)

When making steel plates I usually make +3 because for things like the Yew cleric heavy armor I can cut back on the quality of the staves or varnish if I have +3 plates.

Hence when I do go to knock out basic pot steel armor I usually make +3 even though no-one needs more than +2 armor because I would otherwise have to go and especially refine the +2 plates just to save one nodes worth of coal and iron.

Same with weapons. Because I end up making +3 axes, longswords, hammers etc becasue that is what refined mats i have sitting around ready to go.

I know Kaziil was the same with staffs and wands, end up making +3 cos thats what parts she had sitting around.

It is definitely different with implements. The +3 Acolyte Divine Symbols I make give you 17 spell levels of up to level 3 spells. It lets me slot all my level 3s with a couple of 2's in the left over slots. The +3 makes a huge difference there.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

I doubt that making T1 +0 equipment will ever be profitable. One goal of having relatively high drop rates for starter gear is to make it very cheap.

Scarab Sages Goblin Squad Member

It sounds like once our EE characters have enough time to level up, "mass production" will probably start at T1+3, and go up from there. T1+0 will never really be profitable, because it will have to compete with large numbers of intro monster drops. T1+1 and T1+2 will probably be made in small quantities by crafters just starting their careers. They won't be very profitable, either, because T1+3 will be plentiful and relatively cheap.

I wonder whether this pattern will repeat in Tier 2, or if the material requirements for each + will increase along a steeper gradient.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

I suspect that +2 will be more common than +3 to start, because it is moderately cheaper and provides the same benefit until well after T2 gear is in demand.

Goblin Squad Member

I probably have to shift my perspective, firstly I have to stop seeing the + as magic and more as an quality measure.
Secondly set the base line at +3, stuff lesser than that is inferior apprentice work.

So now I think I have a better calibrtion of reality.

Goblin Squad Member

Schedim wrote:
Secondly set the base line at +3...

As Decius notes, set the base line at +2 for Tier 1, and +3 for Tier 2.

Goblin Squad Member

Wouldn't T2 +3 have the same issues relative to T3 as T1 +3 has versus T2?

This thread seems to have got off topic somewhat.

Goblin Squad Member

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Neadenil Edam wrote:
Bringslite of Fidelis wrote:


Interesting concept. Prudence pushes me to advise not risking wear on gear that is beyond your full ability. Probably because +3 Tier1 is what we have for "top gear"(not counting +4 or +5) right now and likely the best that most will see for the duration of the alpha.

yeah --- but the thing is you end up making +3 anyway because its simpler.

Example:

I can currently make +2 and +3 steel plates. The difference is 14 coal/iron for +2 plates or 16 coal/iron for +3 plates. (The +3 plates also take a bit longer, 20 minutes longer per batch of 5 or some such)

When making steel plates I usually make +3 because for things like the Yew cleric heavy armor I can cut back on the quality of the staves or varnish if I have +3 plates.

Hence when I do go to knock out basic pot steel armor I usually make +3 even though no-one needs more than +2 armor because I would otherwise have to go and especially refine the +2 plates just to save one nodes worth of coal and iron.

Same with weapons. Because I end up making +3 axes, longswords, hammers etc becasue that is what refined mats i have sitting around ready to go.

I know Kaziil was the same with staffs and wands, end up making +3 cos thats what parts she had sitting around.

It is definitely different with implements. The +3 Acolyte Divine Symbols I make give you 17 spell levels of up to level 3 spells. It lets me slot all my level 3s with a couple of 2's in the left over slots. The +3 makes a huge difference there.

A good example, but the most important reason for people to turn out +3 batches of refined goods is because this tier gives you a chance on +4 and +5 outcomes. That is the big difference between a +2 and a +3 Refining recipe, not the extra cost of ingredients.

This, coupled with the relative low extra cost compared to +2 recipes will make +3 refined goods very abundant imo.

I like Schedims idea of adding another ingredient to +3 recipes a lot, that would work even better then just upping the amounts. Makes it much more of a meaningful choice.

I am sure it is easy to think up a few extra, realistic ingredients even for poles and shafts. Polishing materials, lubricants, solutions to prepare the wood, pigments for coloring or bleaching.

Another solution: Add the same chance of producing a +4 or +5 refined item to the +1 and +2 recipes. This would certainly keep the low level crafters into the loop. Finding a +4 refined may be a welcome surprise to these dabblers.

And its not that they are stealing work from the +3 and higher crafters. After all, the reason to make the (more expensive) +3 refined goods should be, because you want to make +3 items with it. The lower level crafters can't do that, nor can they make the +4 and +5 items, which you can. And now you can buy extra +4 and +5 refined items from lower level crafters too!

Goblin Squad Member

Neadenil Edam wrote:
Wouldn't T2 +3 have the same issues relative to T3 as T1 +3 has versus T2?

A Tier 1 +3 Weapon can only be fully utilized by someone who is already capable of utilizing a Tier 2 +3 Weapon. For the vast majority of folks using Tier 1 gear, there will be no difference whatsoever between a Tier 1 +2 and a Tier 1 +3 because they can't match that third upgrade keyword.

I'm not sure what issues you're talking about relative to T3.


4 people marked this as a favorite.

Cheatle and Saiph, I completely agree with both of you. These are the things that I've been asking for and are the features that would cause a lot of MMORPG players to become very interested in PFO.

Having the features that Cheatle mentions at the start of EE would do more than I think most of the rest of the posters here realize. They would mean GOOD PUBLICITYinstead ofBAD for PFO and GW. GW can say all they want that "this isn't release", but the game reviewers and non-forum-community members WILL BE reviewing PFO at launch, and those reviews will impact how many people view PFO and how many people buy PFO or consider buying it later. If it launches with an impressive, but incomplete game (like LiF did with LiF:YO), people will take notice and either join in or put a note to check back later. If it launches with something "only a mother could love" and a community that says "enough for me, too bad the rest of you don't see what I see", then it will be largely discounted and have trouble ever getting players.

Games have historically been reviewed the moment they become 'available' to the public. While game development has changed, the review process hasn't. PFO will give people a "first impression" when EE launches, and the game needs to feel good enough for people to either like it, or believe they WILL like it when a more features are added.

Goblin Squad Member

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I have bought the game, 3 copies for myself, wife and eldest child, with the intent to play from the get go. However with the bugs in the game as mention by Cheatle I will not be playing, till they are fixed. The MVP as it currently stands is lack luster, but I would be willing to play at least for the three months I have, however the bugs are a deal breaker. For alpha I understand to a point, however if it gets to the point of paying to play this, I can not understand how anyone would play it, as it stand even for free it is not even vaguely worth the frustration. As an aside is anyone else disappointed with the complete lack of pathfinderness in PFO? I know you can not translate it as it is in the books ect. However to me it feels in no way related to Pathfinder. Mostly thinking about that since I will probable just run a real pathfinder game, while GW trys to get their act together.

Goblin Squad Member

DeciusBrutus wrote:
What would you add to the refining of +3 pine batons?

If you don't want any answers, do't ask questions. You only seems to be sarcastic... You ment to be sarcastic .. I see, very proffesion, sir, very....

51 to 100 of 215 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Paizo / Licensed Products / Digital Games / Pathfinder Online / Here is why we need a TWO WEEK delay, Goblinworks! All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.