Multiclass Archetypes IX: ACG Unleashed


Homebrew and House Rules

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Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

Welcome Oly! Interesting concept build, but unfortunately you are rather late to the party. This will be the last of these threads and I'm only working in ACG MCA concepts that I already have in my queue, up to about the 1000 post mark. Then I will be moving on from the MCA threads altogether.

I may try and build your concept off the threads, and if I do, you'll find find it on the MCA wiki.

I saw the 1000 post mark post, but misunderstood it. I thought it meant I had to get the concept in before the thread reached 1000 posts.

I really hope you do get to the concept and it gets built on the wiki, because I think it could be a lot of fun.

And I'd add, it seems very little is being done with Brawlers in the MCA archetypes, another reason I wanted to suggest this archetype.

Advocates

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Maps Subscriber

If this is too late, sorry. I got it done real quick.

Sparkplug Apparition:
The sparkplug apparition takes a magical inclination towards lightning and sparks and uses that to bridge disparate mystical powers within herself, as well as to strike foes down with her outlance.
Primary: Swashbuckler
Secondary: Sorcerer

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The sparkplug apparition is proficient with all simple weapons and with the outlance (detailed below). She is proficient with light armor, but not with any kind of buckler.

Class Skills: The sparkplug apparition gains three class skills from the sorcerer class skill list and adds them to her own.

Stormborn (Su/Sp): At 2nd level, the sparkplug apparition gains the stormborn sorcerer bloodline as a sorcerer of her level. She gains the ability to cast each of her bloodline spells as spell-like abilities twice per day. This replaces charmed life. She can take stormborn bloodline feats in place of a swashbuckler bonus feat.

Sparking Panache (Su): At 3rd level, the sparkplug apparition gains the ability to charge her heroic power with an electrifying grace. Whenever she successfully deals electricity damage to another creature by any means, she gains one temporary panache which lasts for one minute. She can have a maximum amount of temporary panache at a time from this source equal to her Charisma modifier. This replaces nimble +1.

Sparkplug Connection (Su/Sp): At 7th level, the sparkplug apparition can use her heroic force to call upon a greater mystic power. She gains the 1st-level sorcerer bloodline power of any one bloodline of her choosing, and can use it by expending one temporary panache gained from sparking panache. At 11th level, she gains the 3rd-level sorcerer bloodline power of that bloodline, and can use it by expending two temporary panache gained from sparking panache.

At 15th level, she gains the ability to cast bloodline spells from that bloodline as spell-like abilities once per day each. At 19th level, she gains the 9th-level sorcerer bloodline power of that bloodline, and can use it by expending three temporary panache gained from sparking panache.. She treats her swashbuckler level -4 as her sorcerer level for the purposes of this ability. This replaces nimble +2 through +5.

Adapted Outlet (Su): At 9th level, the sparkplug apparition can decrease her effective Charisma modifier by 1 for the purposes of all swashbuckler and sparkplug apparition abilities for three days. At the end of this three day period, she selects a sorcerer bloodline. From that point on, her sparkplug connection ability uses that bloodline. She must wait one week before using this ability again. At 17th level, this process only takes two days. This replaces swashbuckler weapon training +2 and +4.

New Weapon: Outlance:
The outlance has a cylindrical handle and a circular handguard, from which two narrow blades emerge, parallel to each other. This is an exotic one-handed piercing weapon which deals 1d8 damage and threatens a critical hit from a natural 19-20 for x3.

Dark Archive

Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

Final version of the Shrine Maiden

Spirit Magic: This is exactly like the shaman ability of the same name. Alternatively, instead of choosing a spell from those granted by her chosen spirit as her spirit magic spell of a given level, she may select an abjuration or divination spell of the same level from the cleric spell list in its place.

Or that could work, again sorry for not getting to you sooner.


Lindley Court wrote:

If this is too late, sorry. I got it done real quick.

** spoiler omitted **...

Queue Jumper! :D

On another note, once this thread is done, I will begin working on a number of racial archetypes for various races, including some rare/powerful PC races that I've been working on. I may be posting them for some critique, so watch out for them. I'll also be looking at finalizing a number of classes as well. So, if you're interested, feel free to join me in those threads when the time comes.

At some point, I will be be organizing all the MCA that have been made into their own pdfs and will post links when the time comes for down load. Likely on the wiki for sure.

Dark Archive

What of those classes on the wiki but though linked go to blank pages? Coming onto those can be somewhat frustrating if one were to say "Oh, that looks interest" Nothing there "Sighs, nevermind".

I'm not say do those, just if there isn't an MCA for what is linked removed the empty page links.
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Also, I will say I am most interested in seeing what you have for racial archetypes.

Spoiler:
There have been some fair criticism with Pazio not given much justification why a given archetype is only available for a single race. heck I have been annoyed with some of the restrictions.

Now many are fitting and flavorful, such as the Stonelord (for tailoring the paladin class to the strengths and weaknesses of the dwarven race) and Treesinger (given elves strong connection to nature). Others though are more restrictive, in want that wouldn't always make sense.

I will hope the racial archetypes you have planned are strongly connected with the races considered (we can most this to PM if you are up to discussing).


@Lindely
Sorry Lindley, totally forgot you were suppose to post before Jon and Ape, but were unable. So ignore the queue jumper comment. I'll take a look at it today. Looks promising. Not sure about the name but I get why you called it that.

JonathonWilder wrote:

What of those classes on the wiki but though linked go to blank pages? Coming onto those can be somewhat frustrating if one were to say "Oh, that looks interest" Nothing there "Sighs, nevermind".

I'm not say do those, just if there isn't an MCA for what is linked removed the empty page links.
----------------------------------

Also, I will say I am most interested in seeing what you have for racial archetypes.

There have been some fair criticism with Pazio not given much justification why a given archetype is only available for a single race. heck I have been annoyed with some of the restrictions.
Now many are fitting and flavorful, such as the Stonelord (for tailoring the paladin class to the strengths and weaknesses of the dwarven race) and Treesinger (given elves strong connection to nature). Others though are more restrictive, in want that wouldn't always make sense.

I will hope the racial archetypes you have planned are strongly connected with the races considered (we can most this to PM if you are up to discussing).

1) You mean MCAs not classes. Yeah, I should unlink those that aren't linked to anything. I also need to check and see what one's are actually done but not posted. There may be quite a few. I may also just remove the ones that are not created yet, as they weren't

my ideas to start with. I may go and finish or tweak ones on my own that need to be. that way, the site will be cleaned up nicely.

2) I have a number of races and racial archetypes I'm working on. If you want to PM that's fine. And yes, my racial archetypes are very closely tied to the races.

3) When I mentioned classes in my above post, I meant new 20 level classes, not MCAs. I have about twelve or so I've worked on over the last few years, and want to get back to all this stuff. That's the main reason I want to close down these threads, for more time to work on those.

Dark Archive

MCA are hybrid classes, I meant MCAs just but said classes instead. Also good to hear, it would be nice to get the wiki cleaned up.

I will see to PMing you

I hope some of those classes are your Alternate Arcane Casters and when you post your other classes could you link me?


#SPARKPLUG APPARITION

1) How about a name change to the Stormborn Blademaster?

2) Currently reworking the build, streamlining, compressing, and balancing things out.

3) Outlance: What is this thing? Just a wierd looking one-handed lance that does nothing special? If so, I'd just get rid of it. Or give it the stats of a shortspear and make it x3 on a critical.


I might be late to the party, but throw me in the queue if you can for

Spell Filcher
Primary: Arcanist
Secondary: Rogue

I know the Stealth Arcanist (Arcanist Rogue) and the Spell Thief (Rogue Arcanist) have already been written, but this is an Alternate for Spell theif that is Arcanist Primary, and I personally like it much better than Spell Theif (not that Spell theif is bad, I just dislike partial spell progressions).


Zander Liteshadow wrote:

I might be late to the party, but throw me in the queue if you can for

Spell Filcher
Primary: Arcanist
Secondary: Rogue

I know the Stealth Arcanist (Arcanist Rogue) and the Spell Thief (Rogue Arcanist) have already been written, but this is an Alternate for Spell theif that is Arcanist Primary, and I personally like it much better than Spell Theif (not that Spell theif is bad, I just dislike partial spell progressions).

Sorry Zander, I'm not taking new submissions for MCAs. I'm currently working through what I have in the queue until we hit about the 1000 post mark. However, The Arc/Rog is an important combo to me, so I'd be willing to work on it through PMs if you want.

Dark Archive

Just to let the group here know, I plan on using the MCAs made here for a NPC adventuring party.
-------------------------------------
Sacred Thaumaturge, Righteous Sentinel, Stealth Arcanist, Velocity Master, Nature Whisperer, Muse-Touched Bard

Does Spell Filcher have spellcasting?


JonathonWilder wrote:

Just to let the group here know, I plan on using the MCAs made here for a NPC adventuring party.

-------------------------------------
Sacred Thaumaturge, Righteous Sentinel, Stealth Arcanist, Velocity Master, Nature Whisperer, Muse-Touched Bard

Does Spell Filcher have spellcasting?

Of course it does, its a full caster arcanist primary from what I can tell.

@Zander
You know what, I may just work on this one and PM you. One change I do see is that you should simply give her Sneak Attack at 1st level, full progression (1d6 at 1st, 2d6 at 3rd, 3d6 at 5th, etc.), but make it an actual arcanist exploit. Its really no different than any of the arcanist's other energy based exploits that cost 1 point from her reservoir and max out to 10d6 at 19th. This one would just be usable as an immediate action when someone is flat-footed, spend the 1 point, and sneak attack the target. That frees up all those exploits and only costs 1 exploit.

This was what I was originally going to do with the Stealth Arcanist, but I wanted more room to build the MCA. Full casters don't often have much room, unless you drop them to 3/4 caster.

Dark Archive

Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:
Of course it does, its a full caster arcanist primary from what I can tell.

Ah, yes that should have been obvious. Sorry I just didn't see a 'Spellcasting' bit or a chart showing spells.

Well then I may go with that MCA for my 'rogue' NPC party member since it has a form of trapfinding. Sorry for the stupid question.


Feel Free to PM me, I'll be happy to have a discussion about it. I will say that I intentionally Kept the sneak attack low and not as an exploit so that it wouldn't completely over shadow the rogue. With the trapping ability of the class, and a full spell progression, I doubt I would ever want to play a rogue again if this class could get a full powered sneak attack. Topping out at Five dice, its enough to be worth using but not overpowered when added to a full sweet of spells that deal energy damage in dice based on caster level. This class is first and foremost a caster. they just go about their spell acquisition in a less traditional fashion.

And with that, I'll turn the thread back over to who ever's turn it is in the queue. I don't want to be a thread jacker and a spell jacker.


Here's how I reworked the Sparkplug Apparition.

SPARKPLUG APPARITION:

The sparkplug apparition possesses a magical affinity towards lightning, and uses that to bridge disparate mystical powers within herself and to strike foes down with her outlance.

Primary Class: Swashbuckler.
Secondary Class: Sorcerer.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Dice: d10.

Bonus Skills and Ranks: The sparkplug apparition selects three sorcerer skills to add to her class skills in addition to the normal swashbuckler class skills. The sparkplug apparition gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 4 + Int modifier.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The sparkplug apparition is proficient with all simple weapons, plus the outlance, and with light armor, but not with shields.

Sparking Panache (Su): This is exactly like swashbuckler’s panache ability, except that the sparkplug apparition possesses an affinity to storms and electricity. Whenever the sparkplug apparition deals electricity damage equal to her sparkplug apparition level + her Charisma modifier (minimum 1) against a single opponent, she regains 1 panache point. This damage can be from her weapon, deeds, or spell-like abilities. This is in addition to any other methods of regaining panache.

Stormborn Deeds: A sparkplug apparition’s blood is infused with magical energies that grant her deeds similar to the powers of the stormborn bloodline. The sparkplug apparition swaps seven swashbuckler deeds with the following deeds.

Thunderstaff (Sp): At 1st level, a sparkplug apparition can spend 1 point of panache to touch a weapon as a standard action, granting it the shock property for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 her sparkplug apparition level (minimum 1). At 9th level, a sparkplug apparition can confer the shocking burst property instead. This deed replaces the derring-do deed.

Stormchild (Ex): At 3rd level, a sparkplug apparition can spend 1 panache point to gain resist electricity 5 and resist sonic 5, and treat wind effects as being one step less severe for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 her sparkplug apparition level (minimum 1). At 9th level, the sparkplug apparition treats wind effects as being two steps less severe and gains blindsense 60 feet against concealment from natural or magical fog, mist, or weather effects while this deed is in effect. This deed replaces the menacing swordplay deed.

Livewire (Su): At 7th level, a sparkplug apparition can gain access to an alternate sorcerer bloodline of her choice. At 7th level, she can spend 1 point of panache to gain a single use of any 1st-level bloodline power of her choice. At 11th level, she can spend 1 point of panache to cast a single spell from another bloodline of her choice once per day. This spell must be of a level equal to or less than the level of her stormborn magic spells. At 15th level, she can spend 1 point of panache to gain a single use of any 3rd-level bloodline power of her choice. At 19th level, she can spend 2 points of panache to gain a single use of any 9th-level bloodline power of her choice. This deed replaces the targeted strike deed.

Thunderbolt (Sp): At 11th level, a sparkplug apparition spend 1 panache points to call a stroke of lightning to strike from above in a 5-foot-radius cylinder 60 feet high. The thunderbolt inflicts 1d6 points of damage per sparkplug apparition level; half of this damage is electricity and half is sonic. A Reflex save (DC 10 + 1/2 the sparkplug apparition’s level + the sparkplug apparition’s Charisma modifier) halves this damage. Creatures failing their saves are deafened for 1 round. A sparkplug apparition can use this deed once per day. This deed replaces the bleeding wound deed.

Ride the Lightning (Sp): At 15th level, as a full-round action, a sparkplug apparition can spend 1 panache point to become a living lightning bolt and move in a straight line up to 10 times your speed. The sparkplug apparition does not provoke attacks of opportunity while moving in this way. Creatures or objects in the sparkplug apparition’s path are affected as by her your thunderbolt deed. Creatures do not block the sparkplug apparition’s movement but solid barriers do unless they are reduced to 0 hit points. This deed can be used once per day for a number of rounds equal to her sparkplug apparition level. This deed replaces the perfect thrust deed.

Adaptive Surge (Su): At 19th level, a sparkplug apparition can spend all her remaining panache to replace his stromborn magics and stormborn deeds (thunderstaff, stormchild, thunderbolt, ride the lightning, and storm lord) with the spells and powers of another bloodline of her choice. This change requires 1 minute and remains until she rests to regain her panache. She does not have access to her stormborn magic or deeds while this change is in effect. She must wait one week before she can use this deed again. If a bloodline power has a daily use of 3 + her Charisma modifier, the sparkplug apparition must spend 1 point of panache to gain one use of the power for a number f rounds equal to 1/2 her sparkplug apparition level. If a bloodline power is usable only once per day, or increases in daily uses as she gains levels (twice per day, three times per day, etc.), she must spend 1 panache point and may only use the power once per day. This deed replaces the cheat death deed.

Storm Lord (Ex): At 19th level, a sparkplug apparition becomes one with the storm within. The sparkplug apparition can spend 2 panache points to gain immunity to deafness, stunning, and wind effects, and gain blindsight 120 feet against concealment from natural or magical fog, mist, or weather for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 his sparkplug apparition level. Alternatively, once per day, when attacked with an electricity or sonic effect, the sparkplug apparition can spend 2 panache points as an immediate action to forgo her saving throw and absorb the energies of the attack, healing 1 point of damage for every 3 points of damage the attack would otherwise have dealt. This deed replaces the stunning stab deed.

Stormborn Magic (Sp): Starting at 2nd level, a sparkplug apparition learns to cast spells from the stormborn bloodline as a spell-like ability. At 2nd level, a sparkplug apparition can cast shocking grasp twice per day. At 6th level, a sparkplug apparition can cast gust of wind twice per day. At 10th level, a sparkplug apparition can cast lightning bolt once per day. At 14th level, a sparkplug apparition can cast shout once per day. At 18th level, a sparkplug apparition can cast overland flight once per day. The sparkplug apparition uses her sparkplug apparition level as her caster level for the purpose of these spell-like abilities. This ability replaces charmed life.

Bonus Feats: This is exactly like the swashbuckler ability of the same name, except that the sparkplug apparition can select any of the following feats from the stormborn bloodline as a bonus feat: Deadly Aim, Dodge, Enlarge Spell, Far Shot, Great Fortitude, Point Blank Shot, Skill Focus (Fly), Wind Stance.

Table: Sparkplug Apparition
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special

1st +1 +0 +2 +0 Deeds, sparking panache, swashbuckler finesse
2nd +2 +0 +3 +0 Stormborn magic (shocking grasp 2/day)
3rd +3 +1 +3 +1 Deeds, nimble +1
4th +4 +1 +4 +1 Bonus feat
5th +5 +1 +4 +1 Swashbuckler weapon training 1
6th +6/+1 +2 +5 +2 Stormborn magic (gust of wind 2/day)
7th +7/+2 +2 +5 +2 Deeds, nimble +2
8th +8/+3 +2 +6 +2 Bonus feat
9th +9/+4 +3 +6 +3 Swashbuckler weapon training 2
10th +10/+5 +3 +7 +3 Stormborn magic (lightning bolt 1/day)
11th +11/+6/+1 +3 +7 +3 Deeds, nimble +3
12th +12/+7/+2 +4 +8 +4 Bonus feat
13th +13/+8/+3 +4 +8 +4 Swashbuckler weapon training 3
14th +14/+9/+4 +4 +9 +4 Stormborn magic (shout 1/day)
15th +15/+10/+5 +5 +9 +5 Deeds, nimble +4
16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +5 +10 +5 Bonus feat
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +5 Swashbuckler weapon training 4
18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +6 +11 +6 Stormborn magic (overland flight 1/day)
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +6 +11 +6 Deeds, nimble +5
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +6 +12 +6 Bonus feat, swashbuckler weapon mastery


#Sparkplug Apparition

Sorry I've not had much input until now, I like the flavor of this class, we've very few electricity/storm based MCAs so this is quite a nice change of pace. It's looking fairly balanced too, though the flavor blurb could use a little more detail maybe?

-

EDIT: If I still have one more MCA to go, I'll let you guys pick, because I can't decide which...

Geniekin Shaman - Shaman/Sorcerer (Genie themed caster that uses a Zyhen familiar and elemental based magics)

Forgemaster - Warpriest/Investigator (Weapon crafting specialist with a unique spell list and tool-kit style talents)

Occultist - Investigator/Oracle (Occult style investigator with ritualistic knowledge and voodoo style magic)


Forge master looks intersting :)

On a side note, the introduction of the solar mystery has got me thinking about sunshine based druids, but what would its alternate class be? it could go radiance/positive elementla direction or more of a heat based caster or a differnt direction altogether


Apraham Lincoln wrote:

Forge master looks intersting :)

On a side note, the introduction of the solar mystery has got me thinking about sunshine based druids, but what would its alternate class be? it could go radiance/positive elementla direction or more of a heat based caster or a differnt direction altogether

Perhaps you could go with Druid/Warpriest and combine the Sun domain and blessing together? you could probably get away with borrowing abilities from the Solar mystery too.


I like Forgemaster or Occultist.

So, any other comments on the Sparkplug Apparition. What do you think of a name change to Stormborn Blademaster? Or perhaps simply Storm Blade.


#Sparkplug Apparition/Stormborn Blademaster

I think it looks about finished, yeah. As for the name? I think either works to be honest, though sparkplug tends to have more technical connotations

Advocates

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Maps Subscriber

#Storming Blade
Looks nice. I only had wi-fi for a little bit when I posted it, but I love what you did with it. Thumbs-up from me.


Lindley Court wrote:

#Storming Blade

Looks nice. I only had wi-fi for a little bit when I posted it, but I love what you did with it. Thumbs-up from me.

Then let's move on. That makes Strom Balde and First World Arcanist both done.

That means Noro is up, and I think I'm going to throw up one of the three new ones that have popped up on this thread recently (and who PMed me). I figure, the guys came on, and they game their suggestions, the least I can do is create their concept as this will be the last thread.

So, I'll post one of those with Noro's in this round.


Zander Liteshadow wrote:

I might be late to the party, but throw me in the queue if you can for

Spell Filcher
Primary: Arcanist
Secondary: Rogue

I know the Stealth Arcanist (Arcanist Rogue) and the Spell Thief (Rogue Arcanist) have already been written, but this is an Alternate for Spell theif that is Arcanist Primary, and I personally like it much better than Spell Theif (not that Spell theif is bad, I just dislike partial spell progressions).

OK, here's Zander Liteshadow's MCA concept. This is based on his link above. It's actually pretty good, I just made some tweaks and rewording. This is a good fullcaster alternate to my 3/4 caster Stealth Arcanist.

SPELL FILCHER:

A spell filcher is a unique type of arcanist whose lust for new spells and magical knowledge takes him outside of the mores of civilized society and into the most dangerous places in the world: the homes of other spell casters.

Primary Class: Arcanist.
Secondary Class: Rogue.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Dice: d6.

Bonus Skills and Ranks: The spell filcher selects six rogue skills to add to her class skills in addition to the normal arcanist class skills, one of which must be Stealth. The spell filcher gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 4 + Int modifier.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The spell filcher is proficient with all simple weapons, plus the hand crossbow, rapier, sap, shortbow, and short sword. The spell filcher is not proficient with any type of armor or shields. Armor interferes with a spell filcher’s gestures, which can cause her spells with somatic components to fail.

Sneak Attack: At 1st level, a spell filcher gains the rogue’s sneak attack ability and deals extra damage anytime her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the spell filcher flanks her target. This extra damage is 1d6 at 1st level, and increases by 1d6 every four levels thereafter, to a maximum of 5d6 at 17th level. This ability replaces consume spells and the arcanist exploits gained at 5th, 9th, 13th, and 17th level.

Spell Jack (Su): At 3rd level, a spell filcher can steal spells from spellcasters with her sneak attacks. Whenever a spell filcher makes a successful sneak attack against an enemy spellcaster, she can, as an immediate action, forego one or more damage die from her sneak attack damage. For each damage die sacrificed, the target expends one prepared spell or spell slot of a level equal to the number of sacrificed damaged die (maximum 5th level). The target also loses access to a random spell of that level (prepared or known) until he rests to regain his daily allotment of spells. The spell filcher then adds a number of points to his arcane reservoir equal to the expended spell’s level, but may not exceed her maximum daily number of arcane reservoir points. Any extra points are lost. A spell filcher can “steal” cantrips or orisons by expending one sneak attack damage die, but doing so does not grant her any extra arcane reservoirs points. This ability replaces the arcanist exploit gained at 3rd level.

Arcanist Exploits: This is exactly like the arcanist ability of the same name, except that the spell filcher may only choose from the following exploits: arcane weapon, bloodline development, dimensional slide, familiar, metamagic knowledge, metamixing, quick study, see magic, spell disruption, and spell resistance.

In addition, she may also choose from the following new exploits restricted to the Spell Filcher multiclass archetype.

Arcane Trapper (Su): The spell filcher can expend 1 point from her arcane reservoir to gain an enhancement bonus to Perception checks made to find traps, and to Disable Device checks made to disarm traps equal to 1/2 her spell filcher level (minimum 1). This bonus lasts for 1 hour per spell filcher level. Additionally, the spell filcher may spend 1 point from her arcane reservoir as a free action to substitute her Disable Device skill for any dispel check he makes using dispel magic or a similar spell.

Bonded Object (Su): The spell filcher with this exploit can acquire a bonded object as the arcane bond wizard class feature, using her spell filcher level as her wizard level to determine any of the statistics and abilities of the bonded object. If the spell filcher receives a bonded object from another class, her levels of spell filcher stack with the levels from that class when determining the bonded object's statistics and abilities.

Quick Stealth (Su): The spell filcher can expend 1 point from her arcane reservoir as a swift action to gain the benefits of a haste spell (self only) when using the Stealth skill. This effect uses the spell filcher’s level as the caster level and immediately ends if she breaks stealth.

Sixth Sense (Su): The spell filcher can sense and protect herself from unseen traps. Whenever a spell filcher passes within 10 feet of a trap, she can make a Perception check as a free action to detect it, even if she is unaware of it. In addition, she can spend 1 point from her arcane reservoir as an immediate action to gain a deflection bonus to her AC and a dodge bonus to her Reflex saves against traps for 1 round for every four spell filcher levels she possesses.

Greater Exploits: This is exactly like the arcanist ability of the same name, except that the spell filcher may only choose from the following greater exploits: alter enhancements, greater metamagic knowledge, greater spell disruption, greater spell resistance, redirect spell, resistance drain, siphon spell, spell thief, and suffering knowledge.

In addition, she may also choose from the following new greater exploits restricted to the Spell Filcher multiclass archetype.

Greater Sixth Sense (Su): The spell filcher also gains the rogue’s evasion ability whenever she uses her sixth sense exploit to gain her a deflection and dodge bonuses. This ability lasts for 1 round for every four spell filcher levels she possesses. The spell filcher must have the sixth sense exploit to select this exploit.

Mental Escape (Su): The spell filcher may spend 1 point from her arcane reservoir as an immediate action to re-roll a single failed Will save.

Greater Spell Jack (Su): At 15th level, a spell filcher may add a spell stolen with his spell jack ability to her list of prepared spells for the day, instead of gaining points to his arcane reservoir. These spells are in addition to his daily allotment of prepared spells, and remain until the spell filcher rests to regain her daily allotment of spells. This ability replaces the arcane exploit gained at 15th level.

Master Spell Thief (Su): At 20th level, whenever a spell filcher uses her spell jack ability, she no longer is required to expend damage dice from her sneak attack ability. In addition, she may choose a specific spell from the target’s list of prepared spells or spell’s known when adding a stolen spell to her list of prepared spells for the day. The spell cannot be accessed by the target until he rests to regain his daily allotment of spells, as normal. This ability replaces magical supremacy.

Table: Spell Filcher
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th

1st +0 +0 +0 +2 Arcane reservoir, arcanist exploit, 2 — — — — — — — —
cantrips, sneak attack +1d6
2nd +1 +0 +0 +3 3 — — — — — — — —
3rd +1 +1 +1 +3 Spell jack 4 — — — — — — — —
4th +2 +1 +1 +4 4 2 — — — — — — —
5th +2 +1 +1 +4 Sneak attack +2d6 4 3 — — — — — — —
6th +3 +2 +2 +5 4 4 2 — — — — — —
7th +3 +2 +2 +5 Arcanist exploit 4 4 3 — — — — — —
8th +4 +2 +2 +6 4 4 4 2 — — — — —
9th +4 +3 +3 +6 Sneak attack +3d6 4 4 4 3 — — — — —
10th +5 +3 +3 +7 4 4 4 4 2 — — — —
11th +5 +3 +3 +7 Arcanist exploit, greater exploits 4 4 4 4 3 — — — —
12th +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 4 4 4 4 4 2 — — —
13th +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 Sneak attack +4d6 4 4 4 4 4 3 — — —
14th +7/+2 +4 +4 +9 4 4 4 4 4 4 2 — —
15th +7/+2 +5 +5 +9 Greater spell jack 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 — —
16th +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 2 —
17th +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 Sneak attack +5d6 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 —
18th +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 2
19th +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 Arcanist exploit 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 3
20th +10/+5 +6 +6 +12 Magical supremacy 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4

Dark Archive

Hmm, I like it. Though I admit for the idea I have full caster might be a bit much unless it has a more limited spell list... still it is the only magic rogue MCA that has a form of trapfinding. Unless the others do and I have forgotten.

Still I can in a sense limit the NPC myself by having the character mostly focus on illusion and enchantment

... nevermind, I may go with Stealth Arcanist instead


My thoughts:
1. I don't mind the Skill list changes, but I feel that 4+ points per level is unnecessarily high for a primary caster in an Int based class. With max Int the Spell Filcher should have plenty of skill points to burn.

2. Weapons: I don't really see a need for the swords and bows/xbows. As a primary caster this class will most likely be delivering sneak attacks via spell which will always be a better option than a bow or melee attack. and if the character really needs a sword or bow, they can take the appropriate feat for proficiency or be an Elf. Although its not game breaking by any means.

3. Greater Sixth Sense: I'd Like it to have the added option of spending a point to gain evasion as an immediate action any time they would be forced to make a reflex save. Given that there is a cost of an arcane reservoir point, and the requirement of an available immediate action (which prevents the use of swift actions the following round) Additionally as a supernatural ability its not available in dead magic zones or anti magic fields. I think that's fairly balanced.

4. Greater Spell Jack: On reflection I think this needs to include an increase of spell level for non arcane spells of +2 So for example Slay Living would be added to prepared spells as a 7th level spell.

5. Master Spell Thief: It was my original intent that this ability remove the 5th level spell cap as well allowing the Filcher to steal any spell


Zander Liteshadow wrote:

My thoughts:

1. I don't mind the Skill list changes, but I feel that 4+ points per level is unnecessarily high for a primary caster in an Int based class. With max Int the Spell Filcher should have plenty of skill points to burn.

Perhaps, BUT as a primary Arcanist primary MCA, you also need Charisma. When a 2 pt and 8 pt class are mashed, it usually ends up being a 4 pt or 6 pt, depending on the primary class. Thus, the 4 points, as it is also focused on skills.

Zander Liteshadow wrote:
2. Weapons: I don't really see a need for the swords and bows/xbows. As a primary caster this class will most likely be delivering sneak attacks via spell which will always be a better option than a bow or melee attack. and if the character really needs a sword or bow, they can take the appropriate feat for proficiency or be an Elf. Although its not game breaking by any means.

How does he deliver a sneak attack with a spell? The MCA has no "Sneakstrike" (deliver touch spells with sneak attacks,like our Arcane Sneak MCA), and sneak attack only works with melee, ranged, or natural weapons. That said, we can just go with Simple Weapons, as there is plenty of suitable sneak attack weapons there.

Zander Liteshadow wrote:
3. Greater Sixth Sense: I'd Like it to have the added option of spending a point to gain evasion as an immediate action any time they would be forced to make a reflex save. Given that there is a cost of an arcane reservoir point, and the requirement of an available immediate action (which prevents the use of swift actions the following round) Additionally as a supernatural ability its not available in dead magic zones or anti magic fields. I think that's fairly balanced.

Greater Sixth Sense (Su): The spell filcher also gains the rogue’s evasion ability whenever she uses her sixth sense exploit to gain her a deflection and dodge bonuses. This ability lasts for 1 round for every four spell filcher levels she possesses. Alternatively, as an immediate action, she can spend 1 point from her arcane reservoir to gain the evasion ability until her next turn whenever she is required to make a Reflex save. The spell filcher must have the sixth sense exploit to select this exploit.

Zander Liteshadow wrote:
4. Greater Spell Jack: On reflection I think this needs to include an increase of spell level for non arcane spells of +2 So for example Slay Living would be added to prepared spells as a 7th level spell.

We can do that. Or, do you want to simply restrict it to arcane spells?

Or we could restrict it to only arcane spells with the Spell Jack ability. Then with Greater Spell Jack, we can allow any spell, but when stealing a spell from a divine spellcaster, the equivalent spell level is increased by 2. That would make cure light wounds a 3rd level spell, and puts any 8th or 9th level divine spells right out of touch.

*With Spell Jack, do we want to limit the number of spells she can actually "steal" and "add" to her daily prepared spells? Or not? I think it might be good to put on a limit, but then the odds of sneak attacking a spellcaster is low.

Zander Liteshadow wrote:
5. Master Spell Thief: It was my original intent that this ability remove the 5th level spell cap as well allowing the Filcher to steal any spell

Why don't we add this to the Spell Jack ability?

Spell Jack (Su): At 3rd level, a spell filcher can steal spells from spellcasters with her sneak attacks. Whenever a spell filcher makes a successful sneak attack against an enemy spellcaster, she can, as an immediate action, forego one or more damage die from her sneak attack damage. For each damage die sacrificed, the target expends one prepared spell or spell slot of a level equal to the number of sacrificed damaged die (maximum 5th level). The target also loses access to a random spell of that level (prepared or known) until he rests to regain his daily allotment of spells. The spell filcher then adds a number of points to his arcane reservoir equal to the expended spell’s level, but may not exceed her maximum daily number of arcane reservoir points. Any extra points are lost. A spell filcher can “steal” cantrips or orisons by expending one sneak attack damage die, but doing so does not grant her any extra arcane reservoirs points.

At 7th level, when using her spell jack ability, she can choose to spend 1 point from her arcane reservoir to increase the level of the spell expended to twice the number of damage dice she foregoes (maximum 9th level spells). This ability replaces the arcanist exploit gained at 3rd level.

The reword Master Spell Thief like this.

Master Spell Thief (Su): At 20th level, whenever a spell filcher uses her spell jack ability, she is no longer required to forego damage dice from her sneak attack or expend any arcane reservoir points. In addition, she may choose a specific spell from the target’s list of prepared spells or spell’s known when adding a stolen spell to her list of prepared spells for the day. The spell cannot be accessed by the target until he rests to regain his daily allotment of spells, as normal. This ability replaces magical supremacy.

*This makes the Spell jack ability a little more progressive over the levels.


http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9oag

Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:


Zander Liteshadow wrote:
2. Weapons: I don't really see a need for the swords and bows/xbows. As a primary caster this class will most likely be delivering sneak attacks via spell which will always be a better option than a bow or melee attack. and if the character really needs a sword or bow, they can take the appropriate feat for proficiency or be an Elf. Although its not game breaking by any means.
How does he deliver a sneak attack with a spell? The MCA has no "Sneakstrike" (deliver touch spells with sneak attacks,like our Arcane Sneak MCA), and sneak attack only works with melee, ranged, or natural weapons. That said, we can just go with Simple Weapons, as there is plenty of suitable sneak attack weapons there.

Rays are considered weapons. If the target is flat-footed and within 30 feet, the spell caster may hit him with a ray spell and deal sneak attack damage. The sneak attack made in this way must deal hit point damage, and the sneak attack damage dealt is of the same type as the spell (fire, cold, sonic, etc.).

Additionally, a spell caster "holding the charge" from a cast touch spell (such as the popular Magus trick, cast a spell, 5-foot step in to touch) is considered "armed" with that spell. Stepping into flanking position while so armed triggers sneak attack eligibility.

What you're thinking of is the Arcane Trickster ability that allows a character to sneak attack with any spell that deals hit point damage (such as a fireball). Since rays and "armed" unarmed strikes are considered weapons, they are valid choices of weapon for sneak attack.

My FAQ link above supports this. On the same page, there is a FAQ that asks about multiple rays from such as Scorching Ray (only one ray gets to sneak attack, not all of them) and how the Arcane Trickster Surprise Spells class feature works (add Sneak Attack to your Fireballs!). I posted it at the top because my phone doesn't like to copy/paste in the middle of a post.


CalethosVB wrote:


Rays are considered weapons. If the target is flat-footed and within 30 feet, the spell caster may hit him with a ray spell and deal sneak attack damage. The sneak attack made in this way must deal hit point damage, and the sneak attack damage dealt is of the same type as the spell (fire, cold, sonic, etc.).

Additionally, a spell caster "holding the charge" from a cast touch spell (such as the popular Magus trick, cast a spell, 5-foot step in to touch) is considered "armed" with that spell. Stepping into flanking position while so armed triggers sneak attack eligibility.

What you're thinking of is the Arcane Trickster ability that allows a character to sneak attack with any spell that deals hit point damage (such as a fireball). Since rays and "armed" unarmed strikes are considered weapons, they are valid choices of weapon for sneak attack.

My FAQ link above supports this. On the same page, there is a FAQ that asks about multiple rays from such as Scorching Ray (only one ray gets to sneak attack, not all of them) and how the Arcane Trickster Surprise Spells class feature works (add Sneak Attack to your Fireballs!). I...

Yep, Fun fact, using the above rules Vampiric Touch deals sneak attack and since the spell is the source of the damage, you gain the sneak attack damage in HP on top of the damage dice from the spell.


Excellent! I did not know that, but makes sense.

Zander, thoughts on my post above?


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

A bunch of stuff :):
Zander Liteshadow wrote:

My thoughts:
1. I don't mind the Skill list changes, but I feel that 4+ points per level is unnecessarily high for a primary caster in an Int based class. With max Int the Spell Filcher should have plenty of skill points to burn.
Perhaps, BUT as a primary Arcanist primary MCA, you also need Charisma. When a 2 pt and 8 pt class are mashed, it usually ends up being a 4 pt or 6 pt, depending on the primary class. Thus, the 4 points, as it is also focused on skills.

Zander Liteshadow wrote:
2. Weapons: I don't really see a need for the swords and bows/xbows. As a primary caster this class will most likely be delivering sneak attacks via spell which will always be a better option than a bow or melee attack. and if the character really needs a sword or bow, they can take the appropriate feat for proficiency or be an Elf. Although its not game breaking by any means.
How does he deliver a sneak attack with a spell? The MCA has no "Sneakstrike" (deliver touch spells with sneak attacks,like our Arcane Sneak MCA), and sneak attack only works with melee, ranged, or natural weapons. That said, we can just go with Simple Weapons, as there is plenty of suitable sneak attack weapons there.

Zander Liteshadow wrote:
3. Greater Sixth Sense: I'd Like it to have the added option of spending a point to gain evasion as an immediate action any time they would be forced to make a reflex save. Given that there is a cost of an arcane reservoir point, and the requirement of an available immediate action (which prevents the use of swift actions the following round) Additionally as a supernatural ability its not available in dead magic zones or anti magic fields. I think that's fairly balanced.
Greater Sixth Sense (Su): The spell filcher also gains the rogue’s evasion ability whenever she uses her sixth sense exploit to gain her a deflection and dodge bonuses. This ability lasts for 1 round for every four spell filcher levels she possesses. Alternatively, as an immediate action, she can spend 1 point from her arcane reservoir to gain the evasion ability until her next turn whenever she is required to make a Reflex save. The spell filcher must have the sixth sense exploit to select this exploit.

Zander Liteshadow wrote:
4. Greater Spell Jack: On reflection I think this needs to include an increase of spell level for non arcane spells of +2 So for example Slay Living would be added to prepared spells as a 7th level spell.
We can do that. Or, do you want to simply restrict it to arcane spells?

Or we could restrict it to only arcane spells with the Spell Jack ability. Then with Greater Spell Jack, we can allow any spell, but when stealing a spell from a divine spellcaster, the equivalent spell level is increased by 2. That would make cure light wounds a 3rd level spell, and puts any 8th or 9th level divine spells right out of touch.

*With Spell Jack, do we want to limit the number of spells she can actually "steal" and "add" to her daily prepared spells? Or not? I think it might be good to put on a limit, but then the odds of sneak attacking a spellcaster is low.

Zander Liteshadow wrote:
5. Master Spell Thief: It was my original intent that this ability remove the 5th level spell cap as well allowing the Filcher to steal any spell
Why don't we add this to the Spell Jack ability?

Spell Jack (Su): At 3rd level, a spell filcher can steal spells from spellcasters with her sneak attacks. Whenever a spell filcher makes a successful sneak attack against an enemy spellcaster, she can, as an immediate action, forego one or more damage die from her sneak attack damage. For each damage die sacrificed, the target expends one prepared spell or spell slot of a level equal to the number of sacrificed damaged die (maximum 5th level). The target also loses access to a random spell of that level (prepared or known) until he rests to regain his daily allotment of spells. The spell filcher then adds a number of points to his arcane reservoir equal to the expended spell’s level, but may not exceed her maximum daily number of arcane reservoir points. Any extra points are lost. A spell filcher can “steal” cantrips or orisons by expending one sneak attack damage die, but doing so does not grant her any extra arcane reservoirs points.

At 7th level, when using her spell jack ability, she can choose to spend 1 point from her arcane reservoir to increase the level of the spell expended to twice the number of damage dice she foregoes (maximum 9th level spells). This ability replaces the arcanist exploit gained at 3rd level.

The reword Master Spell Thief like this.

Master Spell Thief (Su): At 20th level, whenever a spell filcher uses her spell jack ability, she is no longer required to forego damage dice from her sneak attack or expend any arcane reservoir points. In addition, she may choose a specific spell from the target’s list of prepared spells or spell’s known when adding a stolen spell to her list of prepared spells for the day. The spell cannot be accessed by the target until he rests to regain his daily allotment of spells, as normal. This ability replaces magical supremacy.

*This makes the Spell jack ability a little more progressive over the levels.

1. I can see that I suppose. In my opinion, even putting Charisma on low end of the importance scale, the inherent and enhancement bonuses will provide you with plenty of arcane reservoir to burn. however an extra 2 skill points per level on an int based class is not going to make or break anything and i'm willing to cede the point.

2. See CalthosVB's post above :)
3. Perfect.
4. Spell Jack is going to be this classes primary means of repleneshing its Arcane Reservoir given the loss of Consume spells so despite Arcane in the Reservoir's name I'm hesitant to restricts spell jack to only being usable against arcane caster's. I personally prefer adding them as prepared spells with +2 spell level. its consistent with Wish copying a spell, or with researching arcane variants of divine spells. As for a limitation I originally had a limit of 10 minutes for a stolen spell or slot. this keeps them contained fairly easily to only being useful in the encounter they're stolen in without limitting them to a number of times per day (personal feelings here, I hate x/day limitations of any kind except on magic items).

5. Again just my preference but I dislike the spend a resource to get it right back again mechanic. in my opinion it cheapens the expense. also thats quite a gain for so small an expense begining at 2 dice you would be able to spend one to gain 4 net improvement of +3 and it only gets more unbalanced as you gain sneak. at 4 dice you spend 1 to gain 8 thats a net increase of 7 points allowing me to burn quite a few powers before i need to steal a spell again. I would like to keep the gain low in order to induce players to compulsively spell jack their targets to keep themselves topped up. Until Capstone any way.


Zander Liteshadow wrote:

1. I can see that I suppose. In my opinion, even putting Charisma on low end of the importance scale, the inherent and enhancement bonuses will provide you with plenty of arcane reservoir to burn. however an extra 2 skill points per level on an int based class is not going to make or break anything and i'm willing to cede the point.

2. See CalthosVB's post above :)
3. Perfect.
4. Spell Jack is going to be this classes primary means of repleneshing its Arcane Reservoir given the loss of Consume spells so despite Arcane in the Reservoir's name I'm hesitant to restricts spell jack to only being usable against arcane caster's. I personally prefer adding them as prepared spells with +2 spell level. its consistent with Wish copying a spell, or with researching arcane variants of divine spells. As for a limitation I originally had a limit of 10 minutes for a stolen spell or slot. this keeps them contained fairly easily to only being useful in the encounter they're stolen in without limitting them to a number of times per day (personal feelings here, I hate x/day limitations of any kind except on magic items).
5. Again just my preference but I dislike the spend a resource to get it right back again mechanic. in my opinion it cheapens the expense. also thats quite a gain for so small an expense begining at 2 dice you would be able to spend one to gain 4 net improvement of +3 and it only gets more unbalanced as you gain sneak. at 4 dice you spend 1 to gain 8 thats a net increase of 7 points allowing me to burn quite a few powers before i need to steal a spell again. I would like to keep the gain low in order to induce players to compulsively spell jack their targets to keep themselves topped up. Until Capstone any way.

1) We'll keep the 4 + Int

2) Simple weapons only.

3) +1

4 & 5) Spell Jack and Greater Spell Jack will work like this.

Spell Jack (Su): At 3rd level, a spell filcher can steal spells from spellcasters with her sneak attacks. Whenever a spell filcher makes a successful sneak attack against an enemy spellcaster (arcane or divine), she can, as an immediate action, forego one or more damage die from her sneak attack damage. For each damage die sacrificed, the target expends one prepared spell or spell slot of a level equal to the number of sacrificed damaged die (maximum 5th level). The target also loses access to a random spell of that level (prepared or known) until he rests to regain his daily allotment of spells. The spell filcher then adds a number of points to his arcane reservoir equal to the expended spell’s level, but may not exceed her maximum daily number of arcane reservoir points. Any extra points are lost. A spell filcher can “steal” cantrips or orisons by expending one sneak attack damage die, but doing so does not grant her any extra arcane reservoirs points. This ability replaces the arcanist exploit gained at 3rd level.

*So, she can steal spells from any caster (arcane or divine) and gains reservoir points equal to the spell's level (according to the spellcaster). So for this purpose, arcane or divine doesn't matter, until you get to Greater Spell Jack.

Greater Spell Jack (Su): At 15th level, a spell filcher may add a spell stolen with his spell jack ability to her list of prepared spells for the day, instead of gaining points to his arcane reservoir. These spells are in addition to his daily allotment of prepared spells, and remain until the spell filcher rests to regain her daily allotment of spells. Spells stolen in this way that are found on the sorcerer/wizard spell are added to the spell filcher’s list of prepared spells at the listed spell level, as normal. Spells stolen that are only found on another arcane spell list (bloodrager, bard, summoner, etc.) are added to her list of prepared spells as a spell one level higher than the listed level. Spells stolen that are only found on a divine spellcaster’s list (cleric, paladin, shaman, etc.) are added to her list of prepared spells as a spell two levels higher than the listed level. This ability replaces the arcane exploit gained at 15th level.

*So, if she chooses to steal a spell and add it to her prepared spells for the day, at what level it is added is dependent on the spell - any stolen spell that is found on the sorcerer spell list, regardless of the source, is added as a sorcerer spell of its level; if its only found on another arcane spell list, is added at the listed level +1 (so a 2nd level bard only spell would be added as a 2nd level spell); a divine only spell is added at level +2 (so a 2nd level cleric only spell is added as a 4th elvel spell).


so the cure spells stolen from a cleric wold be +1 because they are on bard and witch lists as well and those classes are arcane casters right?


Yes! This should all help with the balance.


OK, nothing from Noro. So, we're moving on.

OSW is up again, so while we wait, I'm going to post one of mine, and another one of the new posters MCAs.


Here is Psi Frost's concept for a Sor/Arc.

ELDRITCH EXPLOITER:

To most, sorcerers are viewed as masters of the arcane arts. However, some of them seek ways to bend and shape the eldritch energies that flow through their veins, often to the breaking point. Eldritch exploiters, while maintaining a close tie to their innate bloodline powers, draw upon the training and knowledge of the arcanist to manipulate their innate magic. As such, they form a pool of arcane energy they can exploit to burn their enemies, drain magical items, or summon a familiar to aid them in their labors.

Primary Class: Sorcerer.
Secondary Class: Arcanist.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Dice: d6.

Bonus Skills and Ranks: The eldritch exploiter selects three arcanist skills to add to her class skills in addition to the normal sorcerer class skills. The eldritch exploiter gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 2 + Int modifier.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The eldritch exploiter is proficient with all simple weapons. The eldritch exploiter is not proficient with any type of armor or shields. Armor interferes with an eldritch exploiter’s gestures, which can cause her spells with somatic components to fail.

Arcane Reservoir (Su): At 1st level, an eldritch exploiter gains the arcanist’s arcane reservoir ability. This ability and arcanist exploits replace bloodline spells and bloodline feats.

Arcanist Exploits: Starting at 5th level, an eldritch exploiter gains the arcanist’s arcanist exploit ability. She may choose an arcanist exploit at 5th, 7th, 11th, 13th, 17th, and 19th level. An eldritch exploit is restricted from choosing the bloodline development exploit, and does not gain access to greater exploits.

Spell Exploitation (Ex): The eldritch exploiter can learn spells that are not on the sorcerer/wizard spell list from another arcane spellcaster. To learn a new spell in this way, she must recite the spell with the spellcaster for 10 minutes per level of the spell. Once the time has been spent, the eldritch exploiter must spend 1 point from her arcane reservoir and make a Spellcraft skill check (DC 15 + spell level). If the check is successful, she learns the spell and adds it to her list of spells known as a spell one level higher. If the check fails, the point is spent and she cannot attempt to learn that spell again until she gains a new eldritch exploiter level. An eldritch exploiter can only learn spells in this way when she has an open slot in her list of spells known from level advancement, or when she chooses to learn a spell in place of another spell of the same level.

Greater Exploitation (Ex): The eldritch exploiter can use her spell exploitation exploit to learn spells that are not on the sorcerer/wizard spell list from a divine spellcaster. However, she must spend 2 points from her arcane reservoir and make a Spellcraft skill check (DC 20 + spell level). If the check is successful, she adds the spell to her list of spells known as a spell two levels higher. The eldritch exploiter must be at least 11th level and have the spell exploitation exploit to select this exploit.

Table: Eldritch Exploiter
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th

1st +0 +0 +0 +2 Bloodline power, cantrips, eschew material 3 — — — — — — — —
2nd +1 +0 +0 +3 4 — — — — — — — —
3rd +1 +1 +1 +3 Arcane reservoir, bloodline power 5 — — — — — — — —
4th +2 +1 +1 +4 6 3 — — — — — — —
5th +2 +1 +1 +4 Arcanist exploit 6 4 — — — — — — —
6th +3 +2 +2 +5 6 5 3 — — — — — —
7th +3 +2 +2 +5 Arcanist exploit 6 6 4 — — — — — —
8th +4 +2 +2 +6 6 6 5 3 — — — — —
9th +4 +3 +3 +6 Bloodline power 6 6 6 4 — — — — —
10th +5 +3 +3 +7 6 6 6 5 3 — — — —
11th +5 +3 +3 +7 Arcanist exploit 6 6 6 6 4 — — — —
12th +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 6 6 6 6 5 3 — — —
13th +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 Arcanist exploit 6 6 6 6 6 4 — — —
14th +7/+2 +4 +4 +9 6 6 6 6 6 5 3 — —
15th +7/+2 +5 +5 +9 Bloodline power 6 6 6 6 6 6 4 — —
16th +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 6 6 6 6 6 6 5 3 —
17th +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 Arcanist exploit 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 4 —
18th +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 5 3
19th +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 Arcanist exploit 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 4
20th +10/+5 +6 +6 +12 Bloodline power 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6

And here is my Wrp/Pal MCA.

WAR SAINT:

Warpiests are often found in the heat of battle, striking down foe and infidel alike. However, some are not content with their calling and seek a higher investiture of divine power. War saints are imbued, in part, with the powers of the chosen warriors of light–the paladin. As such, they conduct themselves according to a strict code as they strive to live the life of a true saint. Not above destroying powerful enemies of their sect, the war saint attempts to temper his penchant toward righteous wrath with mercy and justice.

Primary Class: Warpriest.
Secondary Class: Paladin.
Alignment: Any good.
Hit Dice: d8.

Bonus Skills and Ranks: The war saint may select three paladin skills to add to his class skills in addition to the normal warpriest class skills. The war saint gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 2 + Int modifier.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The war saint is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, as well as the favored weapon of his deity. He is also proficient with all types of armor (heavy, light, and medium), and with shields (except tower shields). If the war saint worships a deity with unarmed strike as its favored weapon, the war saint gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat.

Blessings (Su): The war saint may choose the new Righteous Blessing.

Divine Grace (Su): At 3rd level, a war saint gains the paladin’s divine grace ability. This ability replaces the bonus feat gained at 3rd level.

Smite (Su): At 4th level, a war saint can focus his powers against his chosen foes. As a swift action, the war saint chooses one target within sight to smite. If this target is of his opposed alignment, the war saint adds his Charisma bonus (if any) to his attack rolls and adds his war saint level to all damage rolls made against the target of his smite. If the target of his smite is an outsider with the subtype corresponding to his opposed alignment, the bonus to damage on the first successful attack increases to 2 points of damage per war saint level he possesses. Regardless of the target, smite attacks automatically bypass any DR the target possesses.

In addition, while smite is in effect, the war saint gains a deflection bonus equal to his Charisma modifier (if any) to his AC against attacks made by the target of the smite. If the smite targets a creature that's not of the war saint's opposed alignment, the smite is wasted with no effect.

The smite effect remains until the target of the smite is dead or the next time the war saint regains spells. The war saint can use this ability once per day, plus one additional time per day for every 4 levels beyond 4th (to a maximum of five times per day at 20th level). Using this ability consumes two uses of his fervor ability.

This ability replaces channel energy.

Aura of Courage (Su): At 6th level, a war saint gains the paladin’s aura of courage ability. This ability replaces the bonus feat gained at 6th level.

Divine Health (Su): At 9th level, a war saint gains the paladin’s divine health ability. This ability replaces the bonus feat gained at 9th level.

Aura of Resolve (Su): At 12th level, a war saint gains the paladin’s aura of resolve ability. This ability replaces the bonus feat gained at 12th level.

Shining Light (Su): At 15th level, a war saint can unleash a 30-foot burst of pure, white light as a standard action. Evil creatures within this burst take 1d6 points of damage for every two war saint levels and are blinded for 1 round. Evil dragons, evil outsiders, and evil undead are blinded for 1d4 rounds on a failed save. A Reflex save halves this damage and negates the blindness. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the war saint’s level + the war saint’s Charisma modifier. Good creatures within this burst are healed 1d6 points of damage per two war saint levels and receive a +2 sacred bonus on ability checks, attack rolls, saving throws, and skill checks for 1 round. A war saint can use this ability once per day at 15th level plus one additional time per day at 18th level. This ability replaces the bonus feat gained at 15th level.

Aura of the Elect (Su): At 18th level, a war saint becomes one step closer to obtaining sainthood. He gains DR 5/—, resist acid 5, cold 5, electricity 5, fire 5, and darkvision 60 feet. If the war saint already has darkvision, its range increases by another 30 feet. This ability replaces the bonus feat gained at 18th level.

Aspect of the Saint (Su): At 20th level, a war saint is sanctified through the power of his god and is exalted as an example of righteous conviction. The war saint can channel an aspect of sainthood for 1 minute. After activating this ability, the war saint treats his level as his base attack bonus, his DR increases to 10/—, and he can move at his full normal speed regardless of the armor he is wearing or his encumbrance. In addition, he can activate a protective aura as a free action, surrounding himself with a nimbus of light having a radius of 20 feet. This acts as a double-strength magic circle against evil and as a lesser globe of invulnerability both as cast by a cleric whose level equal to the war saint's level. This ability replaces aspect of war.

NEW BLESSINGS
The following new blessing complements the War Saint multiclass archetype.

Righteous Blessing

Righteous Smite (Su): At 1st level, you can call out to the powers of good to aid you in your struggle against evil. As a swift action, you choose one target within sight to smite. If this target is evil, you add your Charisma bonus (if any) to your attack rolls and adds your warpriest level to all damage rolls made against the target of your smite for 1 minute. Regardless of the target, smite evil attacks automatically bypass any DR the creature might possess. The smite evil effect remains for 1 minute or until the target of the smite is dead.

Righteous Judgment (Su): At 10th level, you can grant the righteous smite ability to all allies within 10 feet, using your bonuses. Allies must use this righteous smite ability by the start of your next turn and the bonuses last for 1 minute. Using this ability is a free action. Evil creatures gain no benefit from this ability.

Table: War Saint
Base Sacred
Class Attack Fort Ref Will Weapon Spells per Day
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special Damage 0th 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th

1st +0 +2 +0 +2 Aura, blessings (minor), focus weapon, 1d6 3 1 — — — — —
orisons, sacred weapon
2nd +1 +3 +0 +3 Fervor 1d6 1d6 4 2 — — — — —
3rd +2 +3 +1 +3 Divine grace 1d6 4 3 — — — — —
4th +3 +4 +1 +4 Sacred weapon +1, smite 1d6 4 3 1 — — — —
5th +3 +4 +1 +4 Fervor 2d6 1d8 4 4 2 — — — —
6th +4 +5 +2 +5 Aura of courage 1d8 5 4 3 — — — —
7th +5 +5 +2 +5 Sacred armor +1 1d8 5 4 3 1 — — —
8th +6/+1 +6 +2 +6 Fervor 3d6, sacred weapon +2 1d8 5 4 4 2 — — —
9th +6/+1 +6 +3 +6 Divine health 1d8 5 5 4 3 — — —
10th +7/+2 +7 +3 +7 Blessings (major), sacred armor +2 1d10 5 5 4 3 1 — —
11th +8/+3 +7 +3 +7 Fervor 4d6 1d10 5 5 4 4 2 — —
12th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Aura of resolve, sacred weapon +3 1d10 5 5 5 4 3 — —
13th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Sacred armor +3 1d10 5 5 5 4 3 1 —
14th +10/+5 +9 +4 +9 Fervor 5d6 1d10 5 5 5 4 4 2 —
15th +11/+6/+1 +9 +5 +9 Shining light 2d6 5 5 5 5 4 3 —
16th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Sacred armor +4, sacred weapon +4 2d6 5 5 5 5 4 3 1
17th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Fervor 6d6 2d6 5 5 5 5 4 4 2
18th +13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +11 Aura of the elect 2d6 5 5 5 5 5 4 3
19th +14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11 Sacred armor +5 2d6 5 5 5 5 5 5 4
20th +15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 Aspect of the saint, fervor 7d6, sacred 2d8 5 5 5 5 5 5 5
weapon +5

Dark Archive

Eldritch Exploiter seems interesting, the idea of more versatility of exploits for a sorcerer being fun to consider.

Hmm, Warpriest may actually be a good choice for one of my character I will be using as an NPC in my campaign. I especially like Shining Light and Righteous Blessing, it would be nice if I could see more light and sun based holy warriors.


BTW, in preparation of ending the threads, I've added all the messageboard names of all the guys/girls who contributed to the original development and ongoing creations of the the MCA process on the wiki under "Contributors".


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

Here is Psi Frost's concept for a Sor/Arc.

** spoiler omitted **...

Eldritch exploiter looks good just one question.

Seeing as the ability to gain spells known from other spell lists can only happen at level advancement why is there a skill check needed? Seems like a fail can hurt you for an entire level or more. Why not just say he must have a spellcraft rank twice the level of the spell (thereby keeping a kind of skill tax), no point expenditure. Its still a mighty useful skill but only at point of leveling up

War saint looks nice too. Do fervour and smite stack and can they be used in the same round? (1 is a swift and 1 is a standard action but you could potentialy smite as a swift then attempt a fervour touch as a standard action)


#War Saint

Looks good, some simple and fair changes. I'm guessing that most of the Warpriest's evil themed functions would be inaccessible, which is okay by me.

I personally never got the difference between Fervor and Channel Energy with Warpriest, though it's surprising to see you kept Fervor instead of Channel Energy, which comes naturally to Paladins already.


Apraham Lincoln wrote:


Eldritch exploiter looks good just one question.
Seeing as the ability to gain spells known from other spell lists can only happen at level advancement why is there a skill check needed? Seems like a fail can hurt you for an entire level or more. Why not just say he must have a spellcraft rank twice the level of the spell (thereby keeping a kind of skill tax), no point expenditure. Its still a mighty useful skill but only at point of leveling up.

I made the following changes to the Spell Exploitation/Greater Spell Exploitation exploits. I increased the check to 20 + level for other arcane spells, and 25 + spell level for divine spells. Reduced restriction to 24 hours. Doesn't mean he can't learn another spell instead, but I think the 24 hours is a good restriction, especially for learning divine spells. Also added in Ape's idea of needing to have Spellcraft ranks twice the level of the spell to learn it.

Spell Exploitation (Ex): The eldritch exploiter can learn spells from another arcane spellcaster that are not on the sorcerer/wizard spell list. To learn a new spell in this way, she must recite the spell with the spellcaster for 10 minutes per level of the spell. Once the time has been spent, the eldritch exploiter must make a Spellcraft skill check (DC 20 + spell level). If the check is successful, she learns the spell and adds it to her list of spells known as a spell one level higher. If the check fails, she cannot attempt to learn that spell again for 24 hours. An eldritch exploiter must have a number of ranks in her Spellcraft skill equal to twice the chosen spell’s new level. For example, if an eldritch exploiter wants to learn cure light wounds from a bard (treated as a 2nd level spell), she must have 4 ranks in Spellcraft and an open 2nd level spell slot. She can only learn spells in this way when she has an open slot in her list of spells known from level advancement, or when she chooses to learn a spell in place of another spell of the same level.

Greater Exploitation (Ex): The eldritch exploiter can use her spell exploitation exploit to learn spells from a divine spellcaster that are not on the sorcerer/wizard spell list. However, she must make a Spellcraft skill check (DC 25 + spell level). If the check is successful, she adds the spell to her list of spells known as a spell two levels higher. If the check fails, she cannot attempt to learn that spell again for 24 hours. For example, if an eldritch exploiter wants to learn neutralize poison from a cleric (treated as a 6th level spell), she must have 12 ranks in Spellcraft and an open 6th level spell slot. The eldritch exploiter must be at least 11th level and have the spell exploitation exploit to select this exploit.

Apraham Lincoln wrote:
War saint looks nice too. Do fervour and smite stack and can they be used in the same round? (1 is a swift and 1 is a standard action but you could potentialy smite as a swift then attempt a fervour touch as a standard action)

Reading over both abilities, Yes! You should be able to use smite as a swift action. Then use fervor right after as a standard action and gain the benefits of the smite with your fervor ability, as fevor requires a melee touch attack roll. So a CG 10th level War Saint could activate smite (gaining a +Cha mod to attack/+10 to damage rolls and a Cha mod Deflection bonus to AC) against a creature with an opposite alignment (LE), and then use fervor as a standard action against a LE undead to also deal another 3d6 damage.

Just remember, the smite action is swift, but all you are doing is choosing the target. It still requires a standard action to attack. Smite is not a swift attack action.

as fevor requires a touch attack roll,


Tyrannical wrote:

#War Saint

Looks good, some simple and fair changes. I'm guessing that most of the Warpriest's evil themed functions would be inaccessible, which is okay by me.

I personally never got the difference between Fervor and Channel Energy with Warpriest, though it's surprising to see you kept Fervor instead of Channel Energy, which comes naturally to Paladins already.

they are essentially the same, but the big different is that Fervor only affects a single target and requires a melee touch attack, while channel energy is a burst that affects multiple targets in 30 feet that needs no attack rolls. Channel energy is actually a much better ability, that's why the war priest can include fervor and a number of other abilities.


OK, if there is nothing further on either of these then we are moving on. I will post Oly's concept and that means Christos is up next with his.


ELDRITCH BRAWLER (by Oly):

Through their magical bloodline, eldritch brawlers employ bloodline powers and spells to enhance their combat skills.

Primary Class: Brawler.
Secondary Class: Sorcerer.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Dice: d10.

Bonus Skills and Ranks: The eldritch brawler selects three sorcerer skills to add to her class skills in addition to the normal brawler class skills, one of which must be Spellcraft. The eldritch brawler gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 4 + Int modifier.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The eldritch brawler is proficient with all simple weapons plus the handaxe, short sword, and weapons from the close fighter weapon group. She is also proficient with light armor. The eldritch brawler can cast sorcerer/wizard spells while wearing light armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. Like any other arcane spellcaster, an eldritch brawler wearing medium armor, heavy armor, or uses a shield incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component. A multiclass eldritch brawler still incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells received from other classes.

Bloodline: At 1st level, an eldritch brawler gains the sorcerer’s bloodline. She may select any bloodline listed in the sorcerer’s bloodline description, and gains her bloodline powers at 1st, 3rd, 9th, 15th, and 20th level. At 4th level, she gains her bloodline arcana. An eldritch brawler gains no bloodline spells or bonus feats. This ability replaces martial flexibility, martial training, and the bonus feats gained at 2nd, 8th, 14th, and 20th level.

Spellcasting: Beginning at 4th level, an eldritch brawler gains the ability to cast a small number of arcane spells drawn from the sorcerer/wizard spell list. To learn or cast a spell, an eldritch brawler must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. She can cast spells she knows without preparing them ahead of time. The saving throw DC against an eldritch brawler's spell is 10 + the spell level + the eldritch brawler's Charisma modifier.

Like other spellcasters, an eldritch brawler can cast only a certain number of spells of each level per day. Her base daily spell allotment is given on Table: Eldritch Brawler. In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Charisma score. The eldritch brawler does not need to prepare these spells in advance; she can cast any spell he knows at any time, assuming she hasn't yet used up his allotment of spells per day for the spell's level.

The eldritch brawler's selection of spells is limited. At 4th level, an eldritch brawler knows two 1st-level spells of her choice. An eldritch brawler gains more spells as he increases in level, as indicated on Table: Eldritch Brawler Spells Known. Unlike spells per day, the number of spells an eldritch brawler knows is not affected by his Charisma score. This ability replaces maneuver training 2.

Brawler’s Strike (Su): This is exactly like the brawler ability of the same name, except that the eldritch brawler gains each increment of this ability as shown on Table: Eldritch Brawler.

Knockout (Ex): This is exactly like the brawler ability of the same name, except that the eldritch brawler gains this ability at 6th, 12th, and 18th level.

Table: Eldritch Brawler
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Bonus Save Save Save Damage Special 1st 2nd 3rd 4th

1st +1 +2 +0 +2 1d6 Bloodline power, brawler’s cunning, unarmed strike — — — —
2nd +2 +3 +0 +3 1d6 Brawler’s flurry (Two-Weapon Fighting) — — — —
3rd +3 +3 +1 +3 1d6 Bloodline power — — — —
4th +4 +4 +1 +4 1d8 AC bonus +1, brawler’s strike (magic) 1 — — —
5th +5 +4 +1 +4 1d8 Bonus combat feat, close weapon mastery 1 — — —
6th +6/+1 +5 +2 +5 1d8 Knockout 1/day 1 — — —
7th +7/+2 +5 +2 +5 1d8 Brawler’s strike (cold iron and silver) 1 1 — —
8th +8/+3 +6 +2 +6 1d10 Brawler’s flurry (Improved Two-Weapon Fighting) 1 1 — —
9th +9/+4 +6 +3 +6 1d10 AC bonus +2, bloodline power 2 1 — —
10th +10/+5 +7 +3 +7 1d10 Brawler’s strike (alignment) 2 1 1 —
11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +3 +7 1d10 Bonus combat feat 2 1 1 —
12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +4 +8 2d6 Knockout 2/day 2 2 1 —
13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +4 +8 2d6 AC bonus +3 3 2 1 1
14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +4 +9 2d6 3 2 1 1
15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +5 +9 2d6 Bloodline power, brawler’s flurry 3 2 2 1
(Greater Two-Weapon Fighting)
16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +5 +10 2d8 Awesome blow, brawler’s strike (adamantine) 3 3 2 1
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 2d8 Bonus combat feat 4 3 2 1
18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +11 2d8 AC bonus +4, knockout 3/day 4 3 2 2
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11 2d8 4 3 3 2
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 2d10 Bloodline power, improved awesome blow 4 4 3 3


Hey sorry about the Jester, I couldn't make it work and wound up without internet outside of my phone for a considerable period of time resulting in a lack of inspiration for it,

I did have a generalized concept though, I was thinking of a gunslinger(Or swashbuckler)/cavalier based around the concept of ranged and melee alternating attacks,

The idea comes from the old trope of the cowbamurai (pistol/katana) though it could be written in such a way to also support such tropes as swashbuckling pirates (Gun/cutlass), medieval styled assassins (hand crossbow/dagger), Imperial era riflemen (Rifle/bayonet), and finally a skirmishing maceman (Light crossbow/mace)

Of course this wouldn't be definitive but the concept would be based around the sword and pistol feat.

concepts to consider:

Theme (Order equivalent): This will grant your weapon and armor proficiencies, along with a few deeds and some feats based on those presented above, Rifleman gains usage of a rifle with a bayonet permanently affixed as a quarterstaff with one side dealing piercing damage, Cowbamurai has parry and shoot capabilities, mace man would be the tanky defender, assassin would have retreat and attack, and finally the Buccaneer would have old pirate movie styled dirty fighting.

Duelist's mark: Target is subject to a special version of cavalier's challenge, allowing special deeds to be used on targets. as it is a more central part of the class it should have higher uses per day and the theme augmentation should be flavorful as opposed to damage bonus. Such as the Buccaneer choosing two targets whereas the assassin would gain some sort of a dodge move, the cowbamurai using a parry and counter attack move, ect.

Bonus to melee after a ranged attack and bonus to ranged attacks after melee, the ranged attacks gain dex to damage after a melee attack, and melee attacks gain an effect akin to cavalier's charge after a ranged attack. Only usable with light weapons, and stat bonuses aren't added to melee attacks for this?

Most deeds would function as utility abilities as to reflect the combination of marksmanship with a close quarters martial style, at appropriate levels they will be equivalents to combat maneuvers and style feat effects, for example a parry which allows for a free attack with a one handed ranged weapon when wielding both, or a dodge attempt against an attack which forces the enemy's attack to hit the target behind you.

Not a mounted class, this is a skirmishing foot soldier (Is that a class name?) who based on theme could be a generalist combatant, an assassin or a tank.

Not a generally high damage class: this would be a martial combat utility class, essentially having damage bonuses when they set up the fight correctly.

The idea i think is good, but it could use some creative input... I want to create a class which encourages players to be adequate at two types of fighting, and to weave in and out close quarters


Dustyboy wrote:
...

Working on the initial build.


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:
Dustyboy wrote:
...
Working on the initial build.

Epic, I look forward to it


Ok which should i post tonight bldrager/monk or brawler/ranger.


@Christos

Bloodrager/Monk seems interesting, I'd personally like to see that~


christos gurd wrote:
Ok which should i post tonight bldrager/monk or brawler/ranger.

Brawler/ranger

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