Taking a Summoner Beyond lvl 20


Advice


Hello all! I'm in the process of developing an epic level boss who is an evil Summoner. I'm going to have him fighting a pretty big group of lvl20+ PCs, so I'm considering placing him at or around lvl35 or more. Maybe lvl40. That part is irrelevant.

What, specifically, I want to know is if there is a published or largely accepted guideline for progressing a Summoner beyond 20th level. To be perfectly clear, I am looking for answers to the following questions:

1 ) Is there a way to continue adding to the Summoner's eidolon after lvl20?
Note on this: Nevermind the boss for this one. It's more a question of "is playing a Summoner in a campaign that is going to progress beyond 20th level worth the player's time and effort? would the eidolon become more and more worthless and/or outdated/outclassed as encounters above and beyond lvl20 occur?"

2 ) Is there a set/published guideline or recommendation of actions for levelling a Summoner beyond 20th?

3 ) If multiclassing is an absolute necessity, what is recommended? What might complement a Summoner?
Note on this: I particularly am enamored with the idea of a Synthesist, toying with the idea that the character in question is ruthless and doesn't mind at all if his lifelong eidolon companion is harmed or even killed.

Any and all input on this would be greatly appreciated as I mull. Thanks in advance!


Pathfinder LO Special Edition Subscriber

By the way the post is written, I assume you are the DM in this case.

1) Not much if we're being honest. I'd consider adding templates personally. That or you follow 3.5 and advance it as you would based on the progression of the chart adding to hit dice, attack, saves, natural armor, and evolution points. There is a pattern so it wouldn't be that hard to figure out how the numbers should go if you really wanted to.

2) Nothing I'm aware of. Paizo has stayed away from epic in general and the only thing in the core or dm guide on the matter at all suggests allowing the character or creature to multiclass into another class or prestige class. The other option is adding mythic tiers to the summoner which could work but does up the power rather significantly and very quickly at that.

3) My personal suggestion depends on the summoner in question, but I've just recently built something similar in a gestalt game that used summoner and swashbuckler. Makes picking a fight with either a nastier position to be in (and due to already needing charisma you have a fair amount of panache to play with). As the eidolon doesn't advance in this scenario I would toss a complete templates on it to help.


It really depends on what set of rules you are going to be dealing with and that is going to be the GM's call (your call?).

PF doesn't, as Aleron has stated, have a set of "Epic" rules and has shied away from publishing any sticking to Mythic which while dealing with the power level takes a very different tack to the issue of 'beyond 20th' and really isn't a set of rules for beyond 20th as much as beyond 'normal' power levels. The brief bit in the CRB about 'Beyond 20th' really isn't useful at all to someone designing campaign material intended for what it sounds like you are aiming for i.e. CR 30+ but more aimed at the period right after 20th level and finishing out PC's pre 25th level (allowing them to have some fun with their capstone and 20th level abilities rather than "here are some nice capstone powers, too bad the campaign has ended")

Personally as someone who has both played and run 'Epic' material I'd have a look at this:

Pathfinder Epic Rules conversion

It uses the 3.0/3.5 Epic rules set and converts it to the Pathfinder rules set to level 30 in detail with guidelines for going as far as you want after that (much like the 3.0 Epic rules did). The only thing it doesn't cover is Monster creation or stats so you will need to create your own Epic Bestiary entries but does cover pretty much everything else you ask about above.


Thanks, both of you! You've definitely resolved the issue I was running into. Brick wall town, sometimes, to be real. ahahaha

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