| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Ok I am gonna play a game tomorrow, and my character is gonna be a Kasatha who took two levels of Monk (Kata Master/Master of Many Styles) and then going into Sacred Fist.
The +2 Dodge bonus along with the +2 Dex and Wis Bonus with no penalties means this is a good combo. It gains a monk ability as a racial bonus (High Jump in this case with Runner)
So I am being allowed to buy a Guided Amulet of Mighty Fist (We are using some 3.5 material) and Headband of Inspired Wisdom.
I am gonna get a Ring of Protection.
Now we have decided via the way the abilities are written that the AC bonus from both classes stack.
So my 20 Dex and 20 Wis (+2) grant a lot of AC
10+(5 Dex)+(12 Wis (wis x2)+2 Dodge (Racial)+1 Dodge (Monk Ac)+1 Deflection (Sacred Fist) = 31 AC (At fifth lvl)
Using Guided Amulet lets me use my +6 Wis to attack and damage via his fists.
So from my calculation with all four arms (Via Multiweapon Fighting)
3+6 (9)-2 (Light and Multiweapon Fighting)= +7/+7/+7/+7 for an attack (Primary hand and 3 Off-hand attacks)
Taking Weapon Focus so it would be +8/+8/+8/+8 and considering taking Weapon Spec (But Warpriest levels count as Fighter, which would make this at level 5 a Fighter 3)
I may take two flaws for Toughness and Troll Blooded (Being an alien race, I could say its alien troll blood)
And I have enough money for a ring of Penumbra which removes the light sensitivity.
This sound about right? What else should I do? What blessing should I focus on?
Deflection bonuses to AC don’t stack, So you would only get the Deflection from the Ring or the Sacred Fist (witch ever is higher).
Also could you give your Ability scores for this character? The way your adding up for your AC just seems so off and with how you typed this out I can't double check your AC.
Str: 16
Dex: (18 base)20 (+2 Race)
Con: 14
Int: 13
Wis: (18 base)20 (+2 Headband) (+2 Race)
Cha: 14
And I didn't know Deflection doesn't stack. I adjusted for that.
10+(5 Dex)+(6 Wis(Monk))+(6Wis(SF))+(2 Dodge(Racial))+(0 Untyped(Monk))+(0 Deflection(SF)) = 29 AC
The AC bonuses from Monk and SF both grant Wis, but Monk2/SF3 you wont be getting any additional AC
Both Monk and SF give +0AC Until 4th level in each class.
So Next level if you go Monk2/SF4 then you would get the +1 deflection AC from SF
Also if you aren’t taking a Ring of Protection then grab some Bracers of Armor +1 or +2
AC Bonus (Su) (Sacred Fist)
A deity protects her sacred fist as long as he is unarmored and unencumbered. A sacred fist adds his Wisdom modifier (minimum 0) to his AC and his CMD. In addition, a sacred fist gains a +1 deflection bonus to AC and CMD at 4th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every 4 levels thereafter (to a maximum of +5 at 20th level).
These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the sacred fist is flat-footed. He loses these bonuses when he is immobilized or helpless, when he wears any armor, when he carries a shield, or when he carries a medium or heavy load.
Now Monk is Untyped so I thought it was a Dodge bonus.
Also I was not aware the the bonuses that increase at 4th level for each class didn't carry over or progress but 29 sounds about right.
I thought the Monk AC bonus would continue to progress granting +1 untyped at level 4.
Both Monk and SF have an AC bonus that Grants an additional +1 bonus every 4 levels
Monk4 +1AC
Monk8 +2AC
Monk12 +3AC
Monk16 +4AC
Monk20 +5AC
SF4 +1AC
SF8 +2AC
SF12 +3AC
SF16 +4AC
SF20 +5AC
Being that you are only Monk2/SF3 you are not yet getting a bonus from either one of them besides the Wis Bonus to AC from each class Feature
If you went Monk3/SF3 next level and grabbed a Monk's Robe you would be treated as an 8th level monk (5 monk levels higher) for your AC bonus (+2 untyped(monk)) with out the Robe you would still be +0
BTW just for your reference.
10+(5 Dex)+(6 Wis(Monk))+(6Wis(SF))+(2 Dodge(Racial))+(0 Untyped(Monk))+(0 Deflection(SF))
AC 29
FF 22
Tch 29
|
AC Bonus (Su) (Sacred Fist)
A deity protects her sacred fist as long as he is unarmored and unencumbered. A sacred fist adds his Wisdom modifier (minimum 0) to his AC and his CMD. In addition, a sacred fist gains a +1 deflection bonus to AC and CMD at 4th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every 4 levels thereafter (to a maximum of +5 at 20th level).These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the sacred fist is flat-footed. He loses these bonuses when he is immobilized or helpless, when he wears any armor, when he carries a shield, or when he carries a medium or heavy load.
Now Monk is Untyped so I thought it was a Dodge bonus.
Also I was not aware the the bonuses that increase at 4th level for each class didn't carry over or progress but 29 sounds about right.
I thought the Monk AC bonus would continue to progress granting +1 untyped at level 4.
Ah, the additional AC, in excess of the Wisdom Bonus.
That is indeed a Deflection Bonus.
|
Does Multi-Weapon Fighting actually give you extra attacks per Limb? I thought it merely just replaced Two-Weapon Fighting... meaning you still have the same amount of attacks as if you only had two arms, and roughly at the same "advantage". Correct me if I'm wrong though... as I'd love to know! It would give me fun ideas for later. I know with Natural Attacks, they stack up depending on how many you have.
If your BAB is below +6, you'd only have two attacks if I'm reading this correctly. Now if you were level 8, you should have 4 attacks total in a full-attack, +8/+8/+3/+3... then -2 to -6 depending on what weapons you're using in Combat. The only weapons that don't get kicked in the face by the iterative decline in attack power, are natural attacks - I believe those would leave you at one solid +something across the board for each attack.
Everything else looks pretty solid.. besides the Deflection thing they mentioned above.
Kasatha specifically call out one Primary and Three Offhands. Multi-weapon fighting reduces the penalties for using more then 1 arm to hit (And requires three or more arms.) which is proof they get it.
Because as we know Specific beats General and of course the three arm or more rules are specific rules for outside the norm.
Multi-weapon fighting says "a –10 penalty on attacks made with all of its off hands." No reason for 'all of its off hands' if it can only you one. If it was the same as two weapon fighting then why the new feat? Just add a blurb in the MM's that multi-arms use TWF?
PS: A Kasatha brawler with pummeling style is going to have a BIG punch! ;)
Indeed it would have an insanely powerful right hook, Kasatha are MADE to be Monks, and trade off Flurry of Blows and you still have all the power of the many punches of doom.
|
Oh god, not this again. Please refer to this thread and obviously ask your dm if he is cool with your character having a gazilion attacks
Elemental I read that thread, I know your opinion. I believe you are wrong. Mostly because of the flawed logic of "It lowers the penalty on attacks you can't make"
As such please do not bring it up in this build advice threat. And having four attacks because you have four arms is not a Gazillion attacks. Just because you believe that a being with a hundred arms can only attack twice a turn doesn't really hold any water here.
So I don't recall anything saying that the Kasatha generates extra attacks for having the extra arms, just that they count as off hands.
If I wielded a sword one handed my other hand is my off hand, I don't automatically get an extra attack because I have it.
If I had TWF and IUS I would not get an extra attack for being able to use IUS. I would need a rule that granted me more attacks.
Also if you are going to ask for advice on a thing you know is questionable don't be surprised when people say it is questionable.
Now if you are able to convince your GM to let you play that race and they are willing to go along with your interpretation then I think that that particular build is very scary, especially if you add in pummeling charge.
Personally I would be smacking this build down for multiple things that I don't allow in my game, three just off the top of my head. But if your GM is ok with this approach to Pathfinder then that's his business.
So you are saying Paizo created a feat that does absolutely nothing at all. That lowers a penalty on something you cannot do according to your interpretation of what it says?
Yet if an Eidolon has multiple arms with hands attached it can in fact make as many attacks as it has arms.
That is as absurd as having a feat like the following
Battle Volley
Prerequisites: Combat Fairy
Benefit: Your combat fairy gains the ability to use their invisibility spell-like ability during a full attack action.
This example is as absurd a rule as you seem to think is in play here. Why have a feat when it does absolutely NOTHING.
Now either the fact that the Prereq on Multi-Weapon Fighting of Three or more arms means you are using beyond the normal standard two arm attack rules. It replaces Two-Weapon Fighting for those with more then two arms, again why would this need to exist if there were not more rules then for two arms? Why have a feat that does the exact same thing as a feat that it is replacing and has a prereq that is impossible for a standard two armed race to use?
And btw yes if you have a sword in one hand you can in fact attack with your off-hand it would do an unarmed strike damage of 1d3 non lethal and suffer the penalties involved. Two-Weapon Fighting does not grant you the ability to fight with two weapons it makes it easier. Anyone can do this from a lvl 1 commoner to a lvl 20 Fighter and all those other builds too. Having an off-hand does grant an attack
No need to be sarcastic. It also would not be the last feat Paizo has made that does nothing if it did do nothing (it doesn't do nothing)
Having an off hand does not grant an extra attack. The TWF rules grant an extra attack.
You do appear to be correct that you get an extra attack for each hand. The core rule book does not say it but the text in multi-attack does say that is how it normally works.
Yet another reason I would not allow the character, but it seems your GM is far more generous than I.
As far as blessings go I would consider destruction blessing. You can make a case that applying a blessing that affects weapons to your unarmed strike would allow you to gain the benefit on all of your attacks but I could see that being ruled either way. For raw damage destruction is probably your best bet.
And as I mentioned earlier I would consider pummeling style. Relying on a bunch of attacks will make DR hurt more and I'm not seeing another style that will be super useful. Unless you really want to be unhitable. Then you should go snake & crane.
Edit: Interesting point, because Multi-Weapon Fighting replaces TWF, but makes no mention about meeting prereqs for feats I think you could never pick up ITWF.
After having a look at Two-Weapon fighting the rules it does say if you wield a second weapon in your off hand. Well.. Second as opposed to what? I could say all my weapons in my off hands are second weapons first being in the primary hand and all the others being second because well I can go from primary to that off hand in the count.
However of course this does grant an extra attack, specifically says so. So when Multi-Weapon Fighting replaces the normal Two-Weapon Fighting rules it implies it adds more then just the two armed limit.
As for the blessings, I do agree, and that is why I was choosing Pummeling Style and Charge for DR penetration.
I am curious. you mentioned three reasons why you wouldn't allow this race into your game. Can you be specific?
A lot of it just has to do with decisions I make as a GM. If you and your GM are cool with it, then you are cool with it.
1: People of the Stars Race/OP race.
I like fun and flavorful races but no matter how I cut it the Kasatha comes out significantly stronger than any other race because of those extra arms. They are built using a lot more RP points then other races. I'm not a fan of the Aasmiaar for the same reason, but I allow them sometimes if the roleplaying reasons are convincing enough. Kasatha are too much in my mind though. I also will not allow Androids as a GM.
2: Use of a bestiary feat. I don't allow these to players unless their class specifically gives it to them. I think they were balanced for monsters which get fewer feats than players and are on average stronger.
3: Use of flaws for extra feats. I have played with flaws both in 3.5 and in Pathfinder. I found them to be a bad idea so I do not allow them. If you want a flaw. Roleplay it. I will not put a mechanical penalty on your character or give you a mechanical bonus. If your flaw put you in a bad situation that you had to get out of I will consider granting bonus exp.
I had a fourth reason but it is one which I probably wouldn't stick to if push came to shove.
Well Multi-weapon fighting is not a monster feat exclusively in Pathfinder it is also a Combat Feat which makes it open to normal characters.
I'm not the one you have to convince. Best of luck playing this new character.
|
|
Kasatha specifically call out one Primary and Three Offhands. Multi-weapon fighting reduces the penalties for using more then 1 arm to hit (And requires three or more arms.) which is proof they get it.
Because as we know Specific beats General and of course the three arm or more rules are specific rules for outside the norm.
Reading more into it, it seems it does work as a Kasatha.
James Jacobs said:
"Races with more than 2 arms really start to blow the lid off of game balance for PCs for reasons like this.
My advice... mixing Multiweapon fighting with Improved Two Weapon Fighting should work... but should ONLY increase the number of iterative attacks for ONE off hand, not all of them.
Thus... a kasatha wielding 4 short swords gets 4 atatcks. With Improved Two Weapon Fighting, it would get 5 attacks, not 8.
Giving a PC that many attacks is bad for TWO reasons:
1) It allows the PC to do too much damage.
2) It makes the player's turn take too long.
A better solution, in my opinion, is to just not allow kasathas or 4-armed races as PC options, and use them ONLY as NPCs or monsters. They're built fine to do damage they need for their CR, and don't need to boost their attacks, so they should never be given feats like Improved Two-Weapon Fighting. Give them other feats entirely."
His perception isn't RAW, but he usually sees things pretty accurately.
Cool find bro. Good luck!