If BAB is allowed to have a fast, medium, and slow progression, then why not saves?
There was already a thread about this idea but it died in 2008 and was on a different forum section.
The basic idea is a type of save progression that "would be as the poor save, but an additional increase of +1 at level 1, 10, and 19; bringing it to 9 max at level 20" to quote the above thread.
I think this would be a great way to help boost single save classes like the fighter, rogue, and swashbuckler.
I think it was be best as a choice depending on what type of each class you play.
The fighter would get his based on what weapon type he masters.
Originally my idea was this:
Resolute (ex): The fighter stands as a shield and inspiration to his comrades. The Fighter gains a fast will save progression. This ability is available to fighters who fight with a shield, close weapons, and two-handed weapons.
Into the Fray (ex): The Fighter is a whirl of weapons whose reflexes are honed to a sharpness that rivals even his weapons. The fighter gains a fast reflex progression. This is available to fighters that wield two weapons, double weapons, thrown weapons and to free-hand fighters.
That left out a lot of styles. This is where the middle saves come in.
Sharp of Mind and Instinct (ex): The fighter has been trained to be aware at all times allowing him to be ready for many types of attack. The gains a middle save progression to both reflex and will. This is available to fighters who wield bows, crossbows, firearms, natural weapons and who specialize in tactics and combat maneuvers.
The Rogue has convincing arguments for both fortitude and will.
They are used common fort problems like poisons and are used to adversity. There are common rogue archetypes like thugs, enforcers, assassins, and gamblers who should be healthy as well.
Willpower should be strong in rogues like masterminds, mafia bosses, spies, and con artists.
The greatest design philosophy problem of the rogue is that they try to be all those things so medium save progression could fit in with that. Archetypes can mess with the saves as appropriate. For example, thug archetype rogues get good fort and bad will. Spies get bad fort and good will.
The Swashbuckler is a trickier problem. They have less arguments for either save due to their novelty. The most common fix is to give them a good fort save because both their parent classes have them. Others rework Charmed Life so that it works like Divine Grace.
Either suggestion is workable to me but medium saves could be a good compromise if they are somehow too onerous for the GM to accept.
Barbarians get a will boost from the their and as such they usually don't get mentioned in the weak saves discussion. After playing a barbarian, I'd give them a medium save progression to their will saves. Combined with the rage boost, it should still be less than the cleric, druid, inquisitor, magus, skald, and warpriest. Bloodrager would also follow this rule.
Cavaliers don't get mentioned either and I have no idea why. Their focus on a particular style makes the Fighter example above not as necessary. I would give them a medium or good will save to help them out.
Basically the intent of this rule would be to do away with the idea of one good save without the comfort of 9 levels of spells to make up for it.
I'm doing something similar for my next campaign. I allow every class with only one good save to choose a poor save in which they gain medium progression. It is not a drastic change and it won't be noticeable until the high levels. But at level 20, it is a lot easier to bridge the gap between a +9 and a +12 bonus (without leveling the difference completely).
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'medium' is my floor.
I'm currently giving my players a character progression of +1 to all saves at even levels.
good saves get an additional +2 'class save bonus' based on class selection.
this leaves good save unchanged, brings up poor saves, and cuts (most) multiclass shenanigans.
also i changed the 'improved save' feats to give them a single menu option among three:
1) you may key a different stat if higher (ST=Fort, INT=Ref, CHA=Will)
2) take a +2 feat bonus to the save
3) re-roll a confirmed-failed save 1/day as immediate action per 4 character levels
the greater version of these feats grants all three
A medium save progression was introduced in Unearthed Arcana, rules should be available somewhere Here. I think it may have been used in D20 Modern, not sure.
Overall, while I see the benefit, potentially, at 15th-20th level, the rest of the time implementing this isn't worth the effort. Taking the save bonus feat (Great Fortitude, etc.) will have a larger impact for the majority of the time. If as a GM it's that important to you, giving those out as bonus feats is simpler, and even gives access to the improved version.
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Medium Save = 1 + (Level * (5/12))
For the mathematically inept.
A medium save progression was introduced in Unearthed Arcana, rules should be available somewhere Here. I think it may have been used in D20 Modern, not sure.
Overall, while I see the benefit, potentially, at 15th-20th level, the rest of the time implementing this isn't worth the effort. Taking the save bonus feat (Great Fortitude, etc.) will have a larger impact for the majority of the time. If as a GM it's that important to you, giving those out as bonus feats is simpler, and even gives access to the improved version.
Thanks for the info and link. I started Tabletop games with Pathfinder so I had no idea this had been done. My knowledge of 3.5 comes from DDO and what my friends have told me.
I see what you mean about the feats for a low level campaign but I prefer the feats being selected through feat choice, rogue talent, etc. for a campaign lasting past 8th level or so.
For the specific case of the Fighter, I feel the medium save plus feat is better. Since I would also remove a lot of ridiculous prerequisite feats, they would have the feats to spare and lots of feats are supposed to be what make fighters special.
The medium save progression was actually introduced in d20 Modern, primarily because that game pretty much requires multiclassing and the save bonuses might otherwise stack too high.
But if we follow the arguments about BAB and save progressions diverging too much at high level, we are soon driven to the solution that WotC resorted to in D&D 4E and 5E of divorcing those progressions from class level completely and basing them solely on character level as modified by one time bonuses from class.