Goblin Squad Member
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Quick old business - @ Stephen the discussion we had about runs that output (25) and (30) items far underproducing the 19% goal of bumping up quality is still going on from what I can tell. Even accounting for our low levels, the aggregate information I get from crafters in game is about the same dismal rate I reported before.
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The leading edge of characters are harvesting T2 materials from nodes and salvage now. Are there any recipes for Tier 2 refining enhanced inputs (I have my eye on Dwarven Steel Ingots +2 or +3) or uncommon goods not automatic with levels that will drop for us in the 9.2 loot tables?
I believe Cheatle said they are in the loot table for lvl 7+ monsters.
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Goblinworks Game Designer
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8+, it turned out when I actually checked the numbers yesterday. So they'll drop from:
Champion Skeletal Fighter - 8
Champion Skeletal Ranger - 8
Champion Skeletal Wizard - 8
Cultist Hierophant - 8
Knight Caster - 8
Knight Sergeant - 8
Raider Hero - 8
Asmodean Hellhound - 9
Ogre Chief - 9
Knight Captain - 11
Knight Prelate - 11
Knight General - 14
Knight Hero - 18
Knight Legend - 21
Those are mostly in the form of bosses right now, but we'll likely have more Tier 2 escalations by the time people are T2 in EE.
Do you know which escalations have champions decius?
Confirmed T2 recipes drop from champions...we got maple shaft +1.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Conceptually, I disagree with MOBS dropping recipes. If one assumes our trainers are sufficiently proficient to be training us in higher skill levels, it should be reasonable to assume that they themselves would be able to train us in higher-tier recipes. I could even see having to quest for a super awesome T3 recipe known only to a lone hermit crafter deep in the wilderness somewhere who demands a heavy toll for his knowledge... but random drops? No, that doesn't make sense to me.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Conceptually, I disagree with MOBS dropping recipes. If one assumes our trainers are sufficiently proficient to be training us in higher skill levels, it should be reasonable to assume that they themselves would be able to train us in higher-tier recipes. I could even see having to quest for a super awesome T3 recipe known only to a lone hermit crafter deep in the wilderness somewhere who demands a heavy toll for his knowledge... but random drops? No, that doesn't make sense to me.
It's a conceit to cover over the fact that this is a game. There need to be incentives for adventurers to go out and kill mobs, and those incentives need to include things that are valuable and sought-after by Crafters.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Conceptually, I disagree with MOBS dropping recipes.
Imagine if we kept the killing part, but put in who might "really" have the recipes. Every town's crafting halls would be perpetually empty, as the NPCs running them would be slaughtered each time some poor apprentice was stupid enough to take up his master's profession :-).
We'd have to Crowdforge an "invention" system, or some such, as the risks to life and limb would prevent any NPC from ever touching a recipe, much less developing one or--Ghod forbid--writing it down.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Conceptually, I disagree with MOBS dropping recipes. If one assumes our trainers are sufficiently proficient to be training us in higher skill levels, it should be reasonable to assume that they themselves would be able to train us in higher-tier recipes. I could even see having to quest for a super awesome T3 recipe known only to a lone hermit crafter deep in the wilderness somewhere who demands a heavy toll for his knowledge... but random drops? No, that doesn't make sense to me.
What it sounds like you really want is for your character to be fully agenty and self-sufficient; you want a crafting character to be able to be nothing more than a crafting character and do all of the crafting with minimal support from other characters. Is that an accurate assessment of why you would prefer that crafters have to undergo a pilgrimage (or perhaps pay someone else to undergo the same pilgrimage repeatedly) in order to advance, rather than paying someone to fight level-appropriate monsters?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Conceptually, I disagree with MOBS dropping recipes. If one assumes our trainers are sufficiently proficient to be training us in higher skill levels, it should be reasonable to assume that they themselves would be able to train us in higher-tier recipes. I could even see having to quest for a super awesome T3 recipe known only to a lone hermit crafter deep in the wilderness somewhere who demands a heavy toll for his knowledge... but random drops? No, that doesn't make sense to me.
Our trainers do automatically provide us with some higher-tier recipes. My character has smelted Dwarven Steel Plates, which my settlement armorsmith is turning into Dwarven Steel Banded as we speak. To me, mob drop recipes just represent many of those mysteries that we'd be discovering as adventurers without having the game devolve into a quest-based system.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Shaibes did not say he did not want to work for recipes, he said he did not want it to be mob drops.
Having recipes come from mob drops only equates to: Whoever grinds the most gets the better stuff. Which is another problem with the "No Grinding" statement.
I am not saying I have a better answer, but you guys are on him like he doesnt want to work for it. Pathetic
I don't see anyone claiming, or even implying, that shaibes does not wish to work for recipes, only that he wishes to not be reliant upon others to be able to craft properly.
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Goblin Squad Member
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He did not say he wanted to be self sufficient either.
I believe he knows full well that he will be reliant on others for materials. Whether through drops or gathering.
He only said he does not want recipes to be random mob drops. He gave a couple examples on how to attain higher end recipes.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Conceptually, I disagree with MOBS dropping recipes. If one assumes our trainers are sufficiently proficient to be training us in higher skill levels, it should be reasonable to assume that they themselves would be able to train us in higher-tier recipes. I could even see having to quest for a super awesome T3 recipe known only to a lone hermit crafter deep in the wilderness somewhere who demands a heavy toll for his knowledge... but random drops? No, that doesn't make sense to me.What it sounds like you really want is for your character to be fully agenty and self-sufficient; you want a crafting character to be able to be nothing more than a crafting character and do all of the crafting with minimal support from other characters. Is that an accurate assessment of why you would prefer that crafters have to undergo a pilgrimage (or perhaps pay someone else to undergo the same pilgrimage repeatedly) in order to advance, rather than paying someone to fight level-appropriate monsters?
No, I want there to be some logical connection between my recipes and where I get them from. Why would some random monster have a scroll of parchment detailing how to craft a masterwork sword? Why wouldn't the high-level trainer back in the settlement have that same recipe or one similar to it? Now, if the trainer tells me "Gorok the Foul stole from my father and killed my sister--bring me his head and I will share the secret of silvered iron with you" THAT is a logical reason to go kill a boss. Just wandering around killing everything I see until I get the stuff I need is not immersive to me.
EDIT: Xeen understood what I was getting at correctly. I apologize if I didn't convey my opinion clearly enough in my earlier post.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Conceptually, I disagree with MOBS dropping recipes. If one assumes our trainers are sufficiently proficient to be training us in higher skill levels, it should be reasonable to assume that they themselves would be able to train us in higher-tier recipes. I could even see having to quest for a super awesome T3 recipe known only to a lone hermit crafter deep in the wilderness somewhere who demands a heavy toll for his knowledge... but random drops? No, that doesn't make sense to me.What it sounds like you really want is for your character to be fully agenty and self-sufficient; you want a crafting character to be able to be nothing more than a crafting character and do all of the crafting with minimal support from other characters. Is that an accurate assessment of why you would prefer that crafters have to undergo a pilgrimage (or perhaps pay someone else to undergo the same pilgrimage repeatedly) in order to advance, rather than paying someone to fight level-appropriate monsters?No, I want there to be some logical connection between my recipes and where I get them from. Why would some random monster have a scroll of parchment detailing how to craft a masterwork sword? Why wouldn't the high-level trainer back in the settlement have that same recipe or one similar to it? Now, if the trainer tells me "Gorok the Foul stole from my father and killed my sister--bring me his head and I will share the secret of silvered iron with you" THAT is a logical reason to go kill a boss. Just wandering around killing everything I see until I get the stuff I need is not immersive to me.
EDIT: Xeen understood what I was getting at correctly. I apologize if I didn't convey my opinion clearly enough in my earlier post.
That would lead to "queue here to Gorouk the Foul", or possibly a set of procedurally generated quests with a similar outcome.
It also requires that recipes be untradeable, or the emergent behavior is that a few people spam the recipe quests and sell the recipes, again yielding the outcome that everybody buys their recipe off the AH.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Unfortunately, sometimes immersion has to bow to game logic. Even in tabletop Pathfinder, one of the top sources of new wizard spells is killing bad guy wizards and taking their spell books. In a reasonably logical world, any halfway competent wizards' school would make it their business to find as many spells as possible, and charge wizards for access to copy them. Genre conventions in tabletop, concessions to game mechanics in the MMO.