Unarmed Combatant


Advice


I would like to roll an Unarmed Combatant but am curious if it would even be effective at some of the higher levels (its for PFS). If so, I am looking for any tips on Race, Class, Feats, etc to help me along my way. I am not terribly familiar with Grappling but it seems like it might be useful.

Is there any ways to increase the base damage on unarmed strikes/claws/bite while leveling? And not just STR bonus. Seems to me that 1d6 at 8th level may be inadequate.


Look at the Monk, the Brawler, or the Sacred Fist Archetype of the Warpriest. That should get you started with what you need.


and then look at guides for those. But if you get a way to have greater magic fang/ greater magic weapon/ buy an amulet of mighty fists, then your fists scale pretty well. It'll enchant them like a weapon. The monk and brawler and sacred fist all have a scaling die for unarmed strikes as they level. (honestly I don't care about my dice size, it's really all about the static bonuses). human is default since they have the extra feat and floating stat for STR.

Now if by unarmed you also meant natural weapons are an option then those are an option and are boosted by magic fang and might fist amulet. and half-orc is a good race for this, get the bite attack and then find a way to get claws.


I have yet to look into the Sacred Priest archetype...I will do that soon. I was considering a Human for the extra 1st level feat but I always though of a half-orc as more of the brawly type.

Whats the difference between Unarmed and Natural Weapons?


Unarmed strikes are basically just like normal weapons as far as doing iterative attacks, TWF, and such.

Natural weapons are their own little system that is mostly separate from normal weapons. You only ever get 1 attack from a natural weapon per full attack, but you can use all the natural attacks you have during a full attack and they all hit at full BAB and for full str and power attack damage (none of that TWF trouble). The limit of natural attacks you can have is the limit of limbs you have to stick them on.

So you could have a bite attack and 2 claw attacks, and then you could hit with all of them during your full attack. This is very useful depending on the level, since bite/claw/claw can be grabbed by level 2 (or level 1 if you are a tengu). So while it never gets more attacks (unless you find another way to grab natural attacks), it is still fairly comparable to TWF in terms of power, and it is very front loaded.

I will also warn you about secondary natural attacks. Some attacks (such as tentacles or pincers) are just considered 'secondary' by default. This means that they get -5 to attack and deal half str and power attack damage. This is usually not a problem for pure natural attack builds, since it is kind of hard to even get those kind of attacks. No, it usually only comes up with a side rule that all natural attacks become secondary if you use a manufactured weapon (such as a dagger or sword) during the same turn.

Anyway, if you are interested in a natural attack build, you can easily grab one by playing a half orc (which has an alternate racial trait that gives a bite) with the ranger class (they have a natural attack style, and one of the first feats is 'aspect of the beast', which can give you claws). For the level range of PFS, this bite/claw/claw will be more than enough for you to do decent damage.


I wasn't even considering a Ranger as an unarmed combatant. If I could work in a pet with Boon Companion that might be fun!


There is also an unarmed style for rangers. Although that is more of a religion based style for Irori. And honestly, just grabbing a normal ranger and getting improved unarmed strike and the TWF style would probably be more effective.

Another piece of advice: there is a new style feat from the Advanced class guide called 'pummeling style'. This feat is easier for monks and brawlers to grab, but it is possible for other classes to get them as long as they get the BAB requirement (although that takes a few more levels to meet).

Pummeling style is interesting, since it is designed to to pool your entire full attack into a single attack. That means you only face DR once. DR 10 is basically DR 2 when it is spread over 5 attacks. Grabbing this feat at level 7 (since it needs BAB +6 for most classes) lets you ignore any of the problems unarmed strike builds can face with DR. The feat also has some craziness about how a critical threat from any attack causes the whole full attack to be a critical threat (resolved using your highest BAB). Yes, your entire full attack can crit.

Pummeling style is also awesome since it leads to the pummeling charge feat. That feat allows you to charge when using pummeling style....so it is pounce basically. Unfortunately, for non monk/brawlers, it's BAB requirement of +12 is a bit out of reach for PFS.

Overall, rangers are actually a rather interesting chassis for an unarmed build, whether you are punching or tear peoples throats out.


OK, assuming I go Snakebite Brawler, Half-Orc (for bite)....how do I get Claws?


by using another class, barb or bloodrager or ranger


Here is what I have worked up so far:

Half-Orc
Barbarian (Invulnerable Rager)
1st Level Feat: Extra Rage Power-Lesser Beast Totem

So, at 1st level when raging I would have: Claw, Claw, Bite as my attack.
At 2nd level I will add Lesser Fiend Totem as my rage power which would give me horns as a gore attack.

A couple questions I have:

1. Can my full attack be Claw, Claw, Gore, Bite? Or am I limited to the number of attacks I can make.

2. The Gore attack states that it is at my bonus to hit (no negative) unless I am attacking with weapons and then its at -5. Are claws considered weapons since I am not holding them?

While I am not raging I imagine I will take a reach weapon to keep me away from a mob and give me the opportunity to Trip.


Krell44 wrote:

Here is what I have worked up so far:

Half-Orc
Barbarian (Invulnerable Rager)
1st Level Feat: Extra Rage Power-Lesser Beast Totem

So, at 1st level when raging I would have: Claw, Claw, Bite as my attack.
At 2nd level I will add Lesser Fiend Totem as my rage power which would give me horns as a gore attack.

A couple questions I have:

1. Can my full attack be Claw, Claw, Gore, Bite? Or am I limited to the number of attacks I can make.

2. The Gore attack states that it is at my bonus to hit (no negative) unless I am attacking with weapons and then its at -5. Are claws considered weapons since I am not holding them?

While I am not raging I imagine I will take a reach weapon to keep me away from a mob and give me the opportunity to Trip.

2 things:

1.) You can only have 1 type of totem. Either you have beast totem, or your have fiend totem.

2.) I would not advise putting getting most of my natural attacks from barbarian. This is because, since you are doing it as a dip, your rage rounds are limited. So when you aren't raging, you only have the bite

So, for advice and answers:

A.) Yes, you get all the natural attacks you can physically make. That is the trade off: you do not get extra attacks at +6 BAB, +11 BAB, or +16 BAB, but instead you can make all nautral attacks at once in the same full attack, and they all hit at your highest BAB. There is only one restriction: You can't use a limb for more than 1 kind of attack. So if you got bite attacks from 2 different sources, you could only make 1 since you only have 1 head. (unsure on how gore and bite stack though; while they both use the head, there are monsters that use both at once, such as gargoyles)

B.) 2 levels of rangers gives you constant claws if you take the natural attack style and pick the aspect of the beast feat. You could then take 2 levels of barbarian and grab fiend totem. That would give you 3 natural attacks all he time, and 4 when you rage (which also gives a nice little damage boost).


OK, how about Lesser Draconic Blood (Claws) and Lesser Fiend Totem (Gore). I do not believe the Draconic is considered a totem so in theory I can have one of each (blood and totem)?

Also, you say: I would not advise putting getting most of my natural attacks from barbarian. This is because, since you are doing it as a dip, your rage rounds are limited. So when you aren't raging, you only have the bite

I dont understand as I am not dipping any other classes. I am only taking Barbarian as a class.

And as I stated earlier I would take a reach weapon for when I am not raging, allowing me to attack from distance and gain the trip option.


1. You can use all of your natural attacks in a given round, so long as you're not already using them for something else (I.E., if you're holding a weapon you can't use the claw on that hand).

2. The game distinguishes between 'manufactured weapons' and 'natural attacks', and uses different systems for the two of them.

If you're using a manufactured weapon, the standard system of iterative attacks applies.

If, however, you're using natural weapons, you can attack with all of them in a given round, generally at full BAB bonus. You can, at level 1, unload that Claw/Claw/Bite/Gore sequence on a full attack.

Natural Attacks are divided into 'primary' and 'secondary' natural attacks. Most of the attacks you'll see, including Claws, Bites, and Gores, are primary attacks. That means they get full BAB and add your full Strength mod. Secondary attacks are much more rare (Hooves, tentacles, wings, pincers, tail slaps, and very rarely other weird stuff), and use your BAB -5 and add only half your Strength bonus.

The reason this matters is because it's perfectly legal, and possible, to combine the two, and use both natural and manufactured weapons as part of a full attack. In this case, you make your manufactured weapon attacks as normal, and then you can make your natural weapon attacks. However, when used with manufactured weapons, all natural weapons are considered secondary. That means your Gore goes from hitting at your full to-hit and damage modifiers to taking a -5 to hit and only adding half your Strength in damage.

For some examples, because I'm not sure how clear I'm being. Let's assume your Barbarian is level 6 and wielding a one-handed weapon. He's at +6 BAB (meaning he has one iterative attack at +1), +4 Strength, and his weapon does 1d6.

If he attacks with just the manufactured weapon, he'll swing with his first attack at +10, his second attack at +5, each for 1d6+4. Easy enough.

If he attacks with only his natural weapons, he'll make a Gore attack for 1d6+4, a Bite attack for 1d6+4, and then two Claw attacks for 1d4+4. All will be made at his full attack bonus of +10.

If, however, he decides to use both his manufactured and natural weapons, things change a bit.

He'll make his weapon attacks exactly as above. He'll swing with his first attack at +10, then second attack at +5, each for 1d6+4. However, after that he can make his natural attacks-- his Bite and Gore do only 1d6+2, because the strength bonus is halved. His Claw attack does 1d4+2, but he can only make one-- the other claw must be used to hold his weapon. All of these natural attacks will be at +5 instead of +10.

I hope all of that made sense.

EDIT:

To answer the next post, you can indeed combine those two. Bloodrage Powers and Totem Powers are considered distinct and you can take one of each if you choose.

However, as a general word of advice most Barbarians favor the Beast Totem, because its tenth-level ability grants Pounce. The Fiend Totem has its own useful qualities to be sure, and Pounce isn't inherently needed for an effective Barbarian, but it is considered one of the most sought-after abilities in the game.


Krell44 wrote:

OK, how about Lesser Draconic Blood (Claws) and Lesser Fiend Totem (Gore). I do not believe the Draconic is considered a totem so in theory I can have one of each (blood and totem)?

Also, you say: I would not advise putting getting most of my natural attacks from barbarian. This is because, since you are doing it as a dip, your rage rounds are limited. So when you aren't raging, you only have the bite

I dont understand as I am not dipping any other classes. I am only taking Barbarian as a class.

And as I stated earlier I would take a reach weapon for when I am not raging, allowing me to attack from distance and gain the trip option.

Oh, I was going off the discussion of a snake bite brawler earlier.

...and honestly? With the reach weapon...I fear that you would abandon unarmed combat in favor for the sweetness that is 2 handed reach. Not to say that natural attacks aren't great...but reach gives you entire tactics and battle strategies. Also, regular weapons are easier to enhance.

Plus, planning to regularly drop your weapons always seems like a risk.

Shadow Lodge

As a sidenote, dropping your weapons is a risk if you plan on using those weapons again. To put away a weapon then draw another is a waste of time if you have no means quicker then a free action to draw it or a swift action to replace it, and the like.

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