Feral Combat Training: Weapon Adapt Monk


Rules Questions

Grand Lodge

Can I select my claws (skinwalker) for Way of the Weapon Master?

If not, and I selected my IUS for Way of the Weapon Master, would it then be boost my claws when I eventually had Feral Combat Training?

If WF:IUS does add to my claws with FCT, then what becomes of the WF:Claws?


No. You can only select a "monk weapon", such as a quarterstaff or a sansetsukon. You wouldn't be able to select unarmed strikes either (which is kinda the point of the class).


-Way of the Weapon Master specifies Monk weapons. Fairly sure a claw is not a Monk weapon

-Presuming IUS counts as a Monk weapon (I'm honestly not sure on that front but I'd assume it does), then yes, because it'd be an "effect that augments an unarmed strike".

-The Weapon Focuses wouldn't stack.

Grand Lodge

Unarmed Strikes are not a monk weapon, actually. It lacks the "Monk" tag.


"Feral Combat Training allows you to use the selected natural attack as if it were a monk weapon—you can use it as one of your flurry of blows attacks, use it to deploy special attacks that require you to use a monk weapon". http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1g1#v5748eaic9ozd

Feral combat allows your natural weapon to be treated as if it was a monk weapon. As such, I see no reason it couldn't be selected for Way of the Weapon Master.


You'd either have to be a late entry into that class or retrain that ability later (if possible) to make it work via FCT (which has prereq's thatbmake it unavailable at level 2), but yes FCT would let you do this.

Shadow Lodge

fretgod99 wrote:
You'd either have to be a late entry into that class or retrain that ability later (if possible) to make it work via FCT (which has prereq's thatbmake it unavailable at level 2), but yes FCT would let you do this.

You can qualify for FCT at level 1. Weapon adept doesn't give up IUAS, and a human monk can take Weapon Focus and FCT both at level 1 thanks to their racial bonus feat.

The problem is that if you take Weapon Focus (claw) at level 1, you can't re-take it at level 2 when the archetype grants you a free Weapon Focus in a monk weapon, which means you also miss out on Weapon Specialization.

Normally the Ultimate Campaign retraining rules would allow you to re-train a class bonus feat you took early for pretty cheap. Unfortunately I don't think that works in this case because you're using something to qualify for itself (you can't select claw for your bonus weapon focus without FCT, but you can't use FCT without weapon focus (claw)).

If you're playing a home game your GM might allow it anyway, or at least allow you to not take your second-level weapon focus and still gain weapon specialization (claw).

Sczarni

Can a monk qualify for weapon focus at level 1? Isn't there a BAB +1 requirement?


Krodjin wrote:
Can a monk qualify for weapon focus at level 1? Isn't there a BAB +1 requirement?

A human one can because it's a racial bonus feat. It's the same way that races can have the Exotic Weapon Proficiency for weapons even though it requires a +1 BAB. It's never stopped a Tengu from using a katana or a bastard sword. ;)


Human bonus feat doesn't bypass prereqs. They pick an extra one, it's not granted to them. "Bonus Feat: Humans select one extra feat at 1st level."


Wrong bonus feat Bob Bob Bob.

Human Alternate Racial Traits (Adoptive Parentage): you gain either Skill Focus or Weapon Focus as a bonus feat.


Ah, makes sense. Also that's not what that says either. It says "If the race does not have weapon familiarity, you gain either Skill Focus or Weapon Focus as a bonus feat that is appropriate for that race instead.". That sounds like the lovely realm of DM fiat, unfortunately. Catfolk probably covers claws, and skinwalker probably covers any natural attack you might want.

And all of this is worthless for the OP, who is already not human and therefore doesn't have that option. And for humans (who do have the option) there's no way to grow claws without leaving monk. Plus you'd get weapon focus twice for no good reason.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

what natural attacks exactly is the human weapon focusing at level 1?


Bob Bob Bob wrote:
Ah, makes sense. Also that's not what that says either. It says "If the race does not have weapon familiarity, you gain either Skill Focus or Weapon Focus as a bonus feat that is appropriate for that race instead.". That sounds like the lovely realm of DM fiat, unfortunately. Catfolk probably covers claws, and skinwalker probably covers any natural attack you might want.

Tiefling, changeling, and Tengu also for claws.

Bob Bob Bob wrote:
And all of this is worthless for the OP, who is already not human and therefore doesn't have that option. And for humans (who do have the option) there's no way to grow claws without leaving monk. Plus you'd get weapon focus twice for no good reason.

Krodjin asked if a 1st level monk could gain weapon focus.

Bandw2: It's super easy for a human to have a bite attack (adopted + tusked traits). Without that, racial heritage + Catfolk Exemplar gets you claws and is doable at 1st. The bite is the easy way to go. A human monk can manage the bite, weapon focus AND Feral Combat Training on a monk at 1st.


Forgot FCT doesn't have a BAB req. Though you do already have to have the natural weapon and WF, so that's limiting.

Where are you getting WF in bite? Orcs and Half-Orcs have weapon familiarity. Or are you suggesting being adopted by two different humanoid subtypes? If so, as was mentioned above, this is definitely in the "talk to your GM first" area.


fretgod99 wrote:

Forgot FCT doesn't have a BAB req. Though you do already have to have the natural weapon and WF, so that's limiting.

Where are you getting WF in bite? Orcs and Half-Orcs have weapon familiarity. Or are you suggesting being adopted by two different humanoid subtypes? If so, as was mentioned above, this is definitely in the "talk to your GM first" area.

Well to start you don't have to have parents of the same race. Or have official parents. An orphan raised in/by a monastery might have teachers of several races. Then you have the Orc sorcerer bloodline that lets a parent count as orc and another race. You also have characters with distant heritages from the bastards book that allows humans to gain other races race traits and subtypes, from the Bastards books.

ANY adopted has a bit of "talk to your GM first", but there are plenty of ways to get Orc + something else and that's all you need for this combo.

Shadow Lodge

Bob Bob Bob wrote:
And all of this is worthless for the OP, who is already not human and therefore doesn't have that option.

Oops, I was remembering a human unarmed fighter build and completely forgot it wasn't applicable to the OP.

graystone wrote:
Without that, racial heritage + Catfolk Exemplar gets you claws and is doable at 1st.

But then you don't have enough feats to take Weapon Focus and FCT at 1st also.

fretgod99 wrote:
Where are you getting WF in bite? Orcs and Half-Orcs have weapon familiarity. Or are you suggesting being adopted by two different humanoid subtypes? If so, as was mentioned above, this is definitely in the "talk to your GM first" area.

My current campaign contains orcish cultures that don't use greataxes or falchions and thus wouldn't gain the usual weapon familiarity. A human adopted by one of those groups could very reasonably take both types of "adopted" traits to gain tusks through use of orcish alchemy and Weapon Focus in that bite. Alternatively, if you meet the BAB +1 requirement (like the human unarmed fighter I mentioned above, or a brawler) you can just take Adopted(Tusked) and use your normal bonus feat for Weapon Focus. Members of other races with natural attacks may also be able to gain a bonus feat at first level if for example the GM is using hero points and you take the "antihero" option for an extra feat. All in all I'd file FCT at first level under "possible, but only for a very limited set of builds and not for the OP."

OP: you'll have to work with your GM to see how they treat the doubled-up Weapon Focus issue since that might be a deal-breaker. By strict RAW having to take Weapon Focus twice for the same weapon is impossible, so even with your claw considered a monk weapon you can't take it as your Weapon Adept weapon. If your GM is willing to fudge this or allow retraining, but you do need FCT by your second monk level, you'll need a dip. Good choices for qualifying for Weapon Focus at level 1 are fighter (bonus feat), brawler (brawler's cunning and martial flexibility or mutagen orsneak attack with archetypes), ranger (skills and favoured enemy), or swashbuckler (finessing with claws). Alternatively, you can dip Warpriest since they gain Weapon Focus as a 1st level bonus feat - plus blessings and 1st level Wis-based spells. You can then take FCT at level 3 (monk 2).

Grand Lodge

There are two traits that give a bite.


blackbloodtroll wrote:
There are two traits that give a bite.

True, a goblin one right? And you have to worship Lamashtu too if I recall.

Grand Lodge

Orc one, and one that requires you to worship Lamashtu.

The Orc one can be nabbed with the Adopted trait.

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