Is there anyway to turn spells like mud ball, snowbowl and the like into spells that are ray spells?

[ShadowDax]

The idea is to make the magus arcana, close range, more along the lines of DPR. This goes along with a previous thread recently posted on the Magus Arcana, close range and other Magus spells that are ray spells from other sources other than from the core books.

[Thanis Kartaleon]

Ideas off the top of my head:

• Spell Research

• A magical item that focuses non-ray single target damaging spells into rays

• A metamagic Feat that does the same

[Bigdaddyjug]

You know I never noticed that The Close Range arcana called out Ray spells. There goes my idea for s [irimed snowball[/i] using whip magus.

[kestral287]

And thus why Snowball is mediocre-at-best.

RAW, no way. In a home campaign, talk to your GM about designing an item or researching up a new spell.

[Master of Shadows]

There is a feat called arcane blast that lets you sacrifice prepared spells or spell slots for a ray that deals 2d6+1d6 per spell level.

[Bigdaddyjug]

Yes but it still doesn't work with Close Range arcana because Close Range specifies ray spells.

[ShadowDax]

Master of Shadows wrote:

There is a feat called arcane blast that lets you sacrifice prepared spells or spell slots for a ray that deals 2d6+1d6 per spell level.

Very interesting, it does turn spells into ray it says so in it's description. Thank you for the suggestion. I guess the question is, is it still considered a range spell? I tend to think so.

[kestral287]

No. It's not a spell.

[Zhayne]

There's no real reason these spells shouldn't be considered rays. They operate exactly the same mechanically.

[Zwordsman]

Kinda feels like they just dropped Rays at one point or like only a third of the studio makes ray spells and the rest just let it go as touch attacks with focused targets..

but no, no way in RAW to do it. You could ask your GM if reach metamagic could transform stuff into rays.... but a that point you'd just be using the normal touch spells with the arcana.
So really doesn't help your situation.

[ShadowDax]

I'm glad I'm doing research on this and not trying the character out after five or six levels and finding it just doesn't work.

The Arcana, close range, is useful for control but the Magus uses spells for DPR.

I guess after the orb spells of DND 3.5, the complaint was those players that used those spells cleaned up. It looks like Pathfinder will not go in that direction again because of the referees that did not have the experience to handle that situation which must have come up more often then not.

Thanks for all your input guys, you saved me a big headache, cheers.

[Scavion]

Zhayne wrote:

There's no real reason these spells shouldn't be considered rays. They operate exactly the same mechanically.

Such is the curse of mechanical terminology.

[Bigdaddyjug]

It's already been clarified that spells like snowball and acid splash get the benefits of things like Point Blank Shot, Inspire Courage, and Arcane Strike. So the only things they are really missing out on are things that specifically call out rays.

[kestral287]

Bigdaddyjug wrote:

It's already been clarified that spells like snowball and acid splash get the benefits of things like Point Blank Shot, Inspire Courage, and Arcane Strike. So the only things they are really missing out on are things that specifically call out rays.

Which, alas, is what Close Range says. It allows the Magus to use ray spells with Spellstrike.

Really, unless you dedicate to rays and use Spell Blending to pull more in... it's not worth it.

[ShadowDax]

Bigdaddyjug wrote:

It's already been clarified that spells like snowball and acid splash get the benefits of things like Point Blank Shot, Inspire Courage, and Arcane Strike. So the only things they are really missing out on are things that specifically call out rays.

Is this from a FAQ question? I don't recall inspire courage or arcane strike included in this. Is the idea that any bonus that does not come from spells gets included in damaging spells?

I thought the bonus from feats was the only damage bonus included in damaging spells that you roll to hit.

[ShadowDax]

My bad, I thought arcane strike was SU, it is just a regular feat. I remember in 3.5 that only feats were allowed to give thier bonuses to rays.

This led to conflicting discussions at tables where 3.5 games were played due to the perimeters were unclear as to what else gave their bonuses.

In the FAQ, questions about rays getting their bonuses uses feats as an example. Is there an example not using feats to give bonuses for damage to rays, or am I reading too much into this and everything but spells gives their bonuses to rays?

[Bigdaddyjug]

Anything that affects an attack roll will affect a snowball. Inspire Courage, Arcane Strike, Point Blank Shot.

[ShadowDax]

Bigdaddyjug wrote:

Anything that affects an attack roll will affect a snowball. Inspire Courage, Arcane Strike, Point Blank Shot.

That gives way to deadly aim. I guess arcane trickster's damage with sneak attack increases with the later two feats you've mentioned along with deadly aim and a range touch spell.

I am thinking deadly aim and point blank shot can not be used in conjunction with close range and ray spells, ranged feats being used for melee.

Double Jeaperdy, power attack could not be used also in conjunction with close range, and rays. Melee feats being used on ranged touch spells for melee, Hmmm.

If I miss understand this please correct me.

[Bigdaddyjug]

Deadly Aim specifically calls out that it does not work on touch attacks.

[ShadowDax]

Ah yes silly me, I was speaking off the top of my head when I was talking about deadly aim, thanks for correcting me. I appreciate all the input and suggestions.