Feral hunter & Feral focus

[williamoak]

Hello all,

I might be playing a hunter (feral hunter archetype) in an upcoming campaign, so I wanted to be sure I properly understood how some things about the class function, specifically pertaining to feral focus.

The question:
Does "Feral focus" allow you to have 2 animal foci active in permanence (the "feral" focus & the "companion" focus since you have no companion)?

1) What I do understand:
-Feral focus allows the PC to apply the animal focus that would normally be minutes/day all the time.

-For the (normal) animal focus, if you have no animal companion, you have a second animal focus active (in permanence) on yourself.

2) What I dont understand:

-What does not having the animal companion do? Feral focus is supposed to work "as the animal focus class feature, except that the hunter always applies the animal aspect to herself". So what happens to the companion's focus? Does it simply not exist (which is quite possible)? How does this ability interact with "second focus"? Does it add another, permanent focus, or a minutes/day focus?

In any case, I hope someone can provide some answers.Thank you.

[Chess Pwn]

No, it makes it so you can have one permanently on you. So instead of minutes you have permanently.

[Zwordsman]

I've been trying to figure that out as well..

Because it has to be different than just having your animal dead. (which puts the animal focus on you permanently already)

So I ended up reading it a few times at first. To me It reads like this " it's animal aspect but there was no animal so that applies to you"
From this I gather that you have one focus on you always, but you still have the swift action toggle version as per normal. So at low level you can have two effects on yourself.

At lv 8, you gain two permi on you always and can toggle 2 on. for a total of 4

This is the only reading that makes sense to me. You apply the part of animal focus that normally goes on your animal except you apply it to yourself. The rest of animal focus is unchanged (i.e. it does not change the swift action on yourself part)

Thats the only reading I can think of that makes sense considering what you lose, and the weird way it's worded.

Which then opens up the annoying question of "so.. is it possible to have two of the same focus like can happen when your pet dies"

[Chess Pwn]

nope that's wrong. You only get the one on yourself. You get wildshape later. really the trade is wildshape for not having a pet. but in a lot of ways the feral hunter is worse than a normal hunter.

[Eltacolibre]

Can only recommend one thing, grab Animal Soul asap on feral hunter, you are going to need it.

[williamoak]

Eltacolibre wrote:

Can only recommend one thing, grab Animal Soul asap on feral hunter, you are going to need it.

Ugh... the feral hunter doesnt qualify for it, since it dont get no animal companion...

[Eltacolibre]

Just grab one level of cavalier or one level sorcerer (Sylvan Bloodline), so you qualify for it.

[williamoak]

Still looking for answers. May just be fishing here.

[Zwordsman]

i dunno still seems like you should get two at lv 1 and then 4 later.

Feral Focus
At 1st level, a feral hunter gains a limited ability to change her shape into hybrid animal forms. This functions as the animal focus class feature, except that the hunter always applies the animal aspect to herself, and there is no limit to this ability's duration. She can end this ability as a free action.

It works as animal focus. Animal focus gives two things of relavence: A permi focus on your animal. and a by mins focus for you.
It specifically calls out the animal aspect is modified and applied to you only. It does not remove the swift action lv/min part at all.
The only portion of the animal focus ability that is that it's always only applied to yourself. It doesn't alter the portion that already applied to you.

another way to put it. In general with archetypes that only modify and does not replace. You typically just replace the wording. So really you just changing the targets of the aspects in the original skill.

So I'm pretty sure you still get the swift action Lv/mins version which does not alter how you appear. The portion that used to apply to animals that is permi does alter your appearence.

In terms of power,
Wild shape is the replacement for animal companion really.
having extra aspects is basically the replacments for all the team work and all the extra crap you don't get since the original hunter is so heavily animal companion style.

Feral Hunter by itself is a really fun class (weak unless you allow the two/four aspects). It can make a pretty fun class. With natural attacks wild shape and some really fun spells.

[Theconiel]

I have to agree with Chess Pwn on this one.

ACG wrote:

When a feral hunter uses this ability, her body takes on cosmetic aspects of an animal, such as furry skin, longer nails, elongated teeth, and oddly colored eyes; these changes do not grant her any abilities other than what is stated in the animal focus, and ends when she takes on a different aspect or ends the ability. This physical change is a polymorph effect, though the effects of the animal focus are not.

I don't see any way for the hunter to have more than one focus active. My question is whether the hunter gets a second one at 8th level. The archetype description makes no mention of "Second Animal Focus", so I conclude that the Feral Hunter can have two Feral Foci active.

[Zwordsman]

SAdly there was a "this will be an FAQ eventually" thing about this, i don't have a link though..
but basically they only ever get 1. Ever. Which I think was kidna dumb.... and what they gain instead (i believe it was a summons bonus thing if I remember correctly) doesn't quite feel right for myself. though did for others

[Gisher]

Zwordsman wrote:

SAdly there was a "this will be an FAQ eventually" thing about this, i don't have a link though..

but basically they only ever get 1. Ever. Which I think was kidna dumb.... and what they gain instead (i believe it was a summons bonus thing if I remember correctly) doesn't quite feel right for myself. though did for others

It was this post. It added "second animal focus" to the list of class abilities replaced by Feral Focus. So Feral Hunters only have one animal focus.

[Belabras]

Eltacolibre wrote:

Can only recommend one thing, grab Animal Soul asap on feral hunter, you are going to need it.

Why? What animal only spells are you going to need?