Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
|
I'm just back from playing high-tier Decline of Glory, and Harsk actually made a direct contribution to us achieving the secondary objective, because he was competent at Heal. And in general he performed adequately at the skillmonkey part of being a ranger. In combat he wasn't impressive, but on the whole he made a decent and ultimately valuable contribution.
I suspect this is the New Harsk though. All he's missing now is Crossbow Master.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
There are all sorts of good reasons to choose to not play a character.
"I just earned my 18th XP, and I want to pick up that book next week and give my PC a Feat out of it. Also, I haven't decided where to spend my gold."
"I've played this character through parts 1 and 2 of this series. If I play this other thing, today, this character will level out of range of part 3."
As nosig notes: "this character doesn't fit in well with the group. We would have nobody who can heal." Or "This character tramples all over your character's cool schtick."
"This character won't have any fun in that adventure, or under that GM. Neither would anybody else at the table."
So under any of those circumstances, play a pre-gen, and then assign the credit to a legal PC. You shouldn't have to lie about "Oh, I accidentally left my character / Chronicles / legal resources at home."
[I post this a lot. Maybe I should just put it in my profile...]
Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Melbourne
|
The theory is that a bard or mindchemist can blow Harsk away on skills and still contribute more to the combat.
Just because someone is better than someone else at doing something doesn't make the second someone useless. You seem to be confusing the word "optimized" with "useful." They do not have the same meaning.
|
Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Melbourne
|
My point is that I'd rather have a PC that is better at everything compared to a pregen. Sadly, this is not often difficult to accomplish.
While I can certainly agree its better, your earlier post seemed to indicate that having pregens like Harsk in the party was so horrible that it was something that shouldn't be allowed. That is a far cry from "I'd rather have." I think we can all agree that we would rather have people playing their own characters of appropriate level, and not even just because they are likely better builds. Most of us feel that using pregens is an acceptable, if imperfect, solution to when this can't happen.
|
Pregens should be banned from tier 7-11. That's all. No other restrictions other than the ones in place. Even more specifically, maybe it's more accurate to say I think tier 7-8 is fine for them, but not 10-11. So maybe just subtier 10-11. Because that is not remotely fair to the players putting their 10-11 real PCs on the line.
Pregens should be banned from tier 7-11. That's all. No other restrictions other than the ones in place. Even more specifically, maybe it's more accurate to say I think tier 7-8 is fine for them, but not 10-11. So maybe just subtier 10-11. Because that is not remotely fair to the players putting their 10-11 real PCs on the line.
What about if the group wants to play and they need the 4th character Pregen or the table doesn't make? I dont think you should take that option away from those players.
If you dont want to play at a table with a pregen then you can walk away. Dont need to make any limiting rules.
|
|
Pregens should be banned from tier 7-11. That's all. No other restrictions other than the ones in place. Even more specifically, maybe it's more accurate to say I think tier 7-8 is fine for them, but not 10-11. So maybe just subtier 10-11. Because that is not remotely fair to the players putting their 10-11 real PCs on the line.What about if the group wants to play and they need the 4th character Pregen or the table doesn't make? I dont think you should take that option away from those players.
If you dont want to play at a table with a pregen then you can walk away. Dont need to make any limiting rules.
True, I just think it would be for the best, just as how they put the hammer down on level twos getting able to get full sub tier 4-5 money. As it stands, I do just leave those tables.
|
|
Pregens should be banned from tier 7-11. That's all. No other restrictions other than the ones in place. Even more specifically, maybe it's more accurate to say I think tier 7-8 is fine for them, but not 10-11. So maybe just subtier 10-11. Because that is not remotely fair to the players putting their 10-11 real PCs on the line.But the same thing could be said about having 7th level PCs at a Sub-Tier 10-11 game.
Or would it be better to have some 10th level Pregens available?
By my own logic, it would be better to have 10th level pregens. Because, yes, I've seen 7th level PCs get into serious trouble at tier 10-11.
|
|
Pregens should be banned from tier 7-11. That's all. No other restrictions other than the ones in place. Even more specifically, maybe it's more accurate to say I think tier 7-8 is fine for them, but not 10-11. So maybe just subtier 10-11. Because that is not remotely fair to the players putting their 10-11 real PCs on the line.
I do not get this.
If you are in 10-11. THE average party level is above 9.5. A pregen dragging this average down means the others are on the higher end. The extra people should help not hurt.
I know If played a 10-11 with four 11s, I would not send away a pregen due to them hurting us.
I might encourage them to leave to play a game with a character of their own if there was one. But they would be more than welcome.
|
|
Pregens should be banned from tier 7-11. That's all. No other restrictions other than the ones in place. Even more specifically, maybe it's more accurate to say I think tier 7-8 is fine for them, but not 10-11. So maybe just subtier 10-11. Because that is not remotely fair to the players putting their 10-11 real PCs on the line.I do not get this.
If you are in 10-11. THE average party level is above 9.5. A pregen dragging this average down means the others are on the higher end. The extra people should help not hurt.
I know If played a 10-11 with four 11s, I would not send away a pregen due to them hurting us.
Does the level 7 pregen really make up for the additional difficulty of losing the 4 player adjustment in subtier 10-11?
I'll agree that pregens at 10-11 or higher probably shouldn't be allowed. I don't have a problem with pregens in the appropriate subtiers.
|
Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Melbourne
|
A table of 3 9th levels and 1 10th would have an APL of 9.25 which rounds down to 9. For Year 4+ mods this would mean playing down without the 4 person adjustment. If you add a 7th level character to the group, the APL is 8.6 which still rounds up to 9 but with a 5th person you would be playing up with the 4 person adjustment. Not very common, but it could happen. I have seen similar situations at lower levels.
True, I just think it would be for the best, just as how they put the hammer down on level twos getting able to get full sub tier 4-5 money. As it stands, I do just leave those tables.
Playing up or down does not change the gold you get if you are playing out of tier. You get the average between your level and the out-of-subtier that you played at.
example subtier 1-2: 512 gold
subtier 4-5: 1860
If you are not playing in your tier, you get 1186 gold
I know that they used to get full up-tier gold, but haven't since the start of Season 5.
I just wanted to flag that for those who didn't know/realize that out-of-tier gold applies to every game where you are out-of-tier.
Yeah, level 3, 5, 7, and 9 are frequently "don't care" levels.nah, those are the "I'd rather play down" levels. Takes less in expendables and gains the same rewards...
^ This
|
|
All depends on priorities. Some people prefer greater challenge to spending less gold.Yeah, level 3, 5, 7, and 9 are frequently "don't care" levels.nah, those are the "I'd rather play down" levels. Takes less in expendables and gains the same rewards...I have heard that. Never seen it, but I have heard it.
I have seen people get up from a table and not play when they would be required to "play up"...
So, "in my experience" the levels 3, 5, 7, and 9 are the "playing down" levels...
So I was at a table with my friend and we both power game. The level 3 was scared. My other friend said Derek and the murder squad here will keep you alive just fine. You could play a level 1 and no be threatened.
Now he is eager to take advantage of our character for the playing up bonus.
|
Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Melbourne
|
All depends on priorities. Some people prefer greater challenge to spending less gold.Yeah, level 3, 5, 7, and 9 are frequently "don't care" levels.nah, those are the "I'd rather play down" levels. Takes less in expendables and gains the same rewards...I have heard that. Never seen it, but I have heard it.
I have seen people get up from a table and not play when they would be required to "play up"...
So, "in my experience" the levels 3, 5, 7, and 9 are the "playing down" levels...
If I am at a table with an out of tier character and there is a choice (either because we are right an APL of X.5 or because people have multiple character choices that can push the table one way or another) I generally go with whatever the majority wants. That seems to usually be to play up. Only time I might say otherwise is if I am sole party meat shield. Then again, my 3rd level Paladin has a 30 AC so I might do it anyway.
|
|
Yeah, level 3, 5, 7, and 9 are frequently "don't care" levels.
Or, "Let's play a level-appropriate module." levels.
Feast of Ravenmoor, folks? I'd be happy to run it again. Bwhahaha....
Also, levels 3, 5 and 7 are in-tier for the right set of scenarios.
1-5, 3-7, 5-9, 7-11
1-2/4-5, 3-4/6-7, 5-6/8-9, 7-8/10-11
1-5=1-2
3-7=3-4
1-5=4-5
5-9=5-6
3-7=6-7
7-11=7-8
5-9=8-9
7-11=10-11
So, "dead" sub-tiers are 2-3, and 9-10, there are all other available sub-tiers for in-tier play through 11th level.
I can see the issue with 7th level pregens at 10-11. Last time it happened to me, it was two pregens, two real PCs, so I swapped out my high-tier PC for a low-tier PC, the other high-tier PC was one with which its player preferred playing down, so we wound up playing the scenario at 7-8 instead of 10-11, and it caused some amusing moments, given one combat encounter ended about half-way through the first round, with no injuries, and no deaths.