Best Pathfinder Society Pregens?

[Hmm]

Okay, I might be taking a relative to PFS who doesn't have time to make his own character. Rather than making him feel lame by having him be the only one at the table with pregen, Bret and I were thinking of playing pregens too.

Rather than being drags on the other three players who might be at the game, I'd like to pick pregens with some good potential for fun and a range of possibilities. It would be nice if all three of the characters brought something good and useful to the table, so I'm also looking at balance. Do you all have recommendations for us? This would be at Tier 1-2.

Hmm

[David Bowles]

Kyra. Although at tier 1-2, the pregens are mostly fine as a whole. They get progressively more useless the higher up you play. Kyra and Seela are pretty nice at 7, but they can't hang at tier 10-11, even though they are legal for play.

[Nimrandir]

Seelah is pretty solid, but not everyone has fun playing a paladin. I have a soft spot for rogues, and Merisiel is reasonably built (except for the dagger-throwing thing).

[RainyDayNinja]

Amiri is the strongest at level 1. At higher levels, Kyra and Seelah are really good too.

But for the love of God, don't give them Harsk or Lirianne!

[Hmm]

Seelah is a paladin, and Kyra and Merisiel are...?

Hmm

[Rogue Eidolon]

If part of the exercise is to get the new player excited, you could also have them try out the new Advanced Class Guide pregens that just came out. New things tend to seem shinier, plus they each have newbie-friendly descriptions of their spells and activated items.

[ARGH!]

The druid is good because spontaneous cast summon natures ally is good. Of course, not in the hands of a brand new player, but once the player has familiarized with the game the druid is a next step up pregen.

[Secane]

Hmm wrote:

Seelah is a paladin, and Kyra and Merisiel are...?

Hmm

Kyra is the Cleric and Merisiel is the Rogue.

They are officially girlfriends.

[BigNorseWolf]

Take 15 minutes and make them a character!

[Hmm]

Actually, he's pretty experienced with D&D 3.5. It would be his first Pathfinder experience. He's played clerics, fighters, druids and wizards. He's GM'ed too. He just has had no time for a regular gaming group now at all, so we suggested PFS to him. He's only ever played with people he knew really well, so we're going with him for this game as a buffer.

It might be fun to do some of the ACG options. Any recommendations?

I keep hearing the name Harsk spoken with awe and loathing. What did he do, use the scroll master's underwear for the flagbearer feat or something? And what's the deal with Lirianne?

Hmm

[Hmm]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Take 15 minutes and make them a character!

Nope. Not going to make a character for this guy. He's the type who likes to go through the books and make his own. Also, if he doesn't like the character -- I'd rather have him hate the pregen than hate something I made especially for him...

The problem is that he's not been able to make the time. His schedule is overbooked. I figure that we go in, we do pre-gens, he has a good time, and then he can decide that he wants to make his own character if he decides to continue.

Hmm

[Uncle Ook]

I've had success with Kyra and Seelah, but it might help to know what the party may need and go from there.

[Lord Fyre]

RainyDayNinja wrote:

Amiri is the strongest at level 1. At higher levels, Kyra and Seelah are really good too.

But for the love of God, don't give them Harsk or Lirianne!

What is wrong with Harsk (ranger) or Lirianne (druid)?

[Hmm]

Uncle Ook wrote:

I've had success with Kyra and Seelah, but it might help to know what the party may need and go from there.

I think what I want is about 5 good options that we can narrow down once we see who else is playing with us!

Hmm

[Uncle Ook]

Lord Fyre wrote:

RainyDayNinja wrote:

Amiri is the strongest at level 1. At higher levels, Kyra and Seelah are really good too.

But for the love of God, don't give them Harsk or Lirianne!

What is wrong with Harsk (ranger) or Lirianne (druid)?

isn't Lirianne the Gunslinger? Lini is the druid.

[Rogue Eidolon]

Hmm wrote:

Actually, he's pretty experienced with D&D 3.5. It would be his first Pathfinder experience. He's played clerics, fighters, druids and wizards. He's GM'ed too. He just has had no time for a regular gaming group now at all, so we suggested PFS to him. He's only ever played with people he knew really well, so we're going with him for this game as a buffer.

It might be fun to do some of the ACG options. Any recommendations?

I keep hearing the name Harsk spoken with awe and loathing. What did he do, use the scroll master's underwear for the flagbearer feat or something? And what's the deal with Lirianne?

Hmm

If he likes clerics, fighters, druids, and wizards and wants to play ACG, Oloch the iconic warpriest may be a strong level 1 option, or Kess the Brawler, Zadim the Slayer, Enora the Arcanist, etc.

[Plerumque]

Personally, I rather like Quinn the iconic Investigator. Brings a pretty good mix of skills and not terrible combat ability, and I like his backstory.

[BigNorseWolf]

Lord Fyre wrote:

RainyDayNinja wrote:

Amiri is the strongest at level 1. At higher levels, Kyra and Seelah are really good too.

But for the love of God, don't give them Harsk or Lirianne!

What is wrong with Harsk (ranger) or Lirianne (druid)?

Harsk is trying to use a crossbow. He doesn't have the feat from the APG that makes crossbows even moderately usable, and doesn't have point blank and precise shot. He's shooting into melee and through people at -8 for 1d10 damage every. Other. Round.

He will literally be out damaged by a well optimized familiar.

Yes. familiar.Not animal companion.

[Hmm]

All the ACG options you've mentioned sound interesting. I think that you're right that he could have a blast as a warpriest. And hey... I've never played any of those classes either. It could be fun to try them out.

I'm loving these suggestions.

Hmm

[Muser]

Harsk is pretty decent if you just ditch the xbow, buy a dwarfish two-handed weapon and some heavier armor, and occasionally pop lead blades. I recently forgot to take my in-tier character with me to special and decided to try Harsk(level 4). Man did he go to town!

That said, he was far better in 3.5 with his Crossbow Mastery.

[Hmm]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Harsk is trying to use a crossbow. He doesn't have the feat from the APG that makes crossbows even moderately usable, and doesn't have point blank and precise shot. He's shooting into melee and through people at -8 for 1d10 damage every. Other. Round.

He will literally be out damaged by a well optimized familiar.

Yes. familiar.Not animal companion.

Urk. And he's a ranger? Can't you hand the guy a melee weapon? Or will he refuse it?

Hmm

[BigNorseWolf]

Hmm wrote:

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Take 15 minutes and make them a character!

Nope. Not going to make a character for this guy. He's the type who likes to go through the books and make his own. Also, if he doesn't like the character -- I'd rather have him hate the pregen than hate something I made especially for him...

The problem is that he's not been able to make the time. His schedule is overbooked. I figure that we go in, we do pre-gens, he has a good time, and then he can decide that he wants to make his own character if he decides to continue.

Hmm

Have THEM take 15 minutes and make a character. The game hasn't changed that much.

[Gwen Smith]

It depends on what kinds of characters your friend likes to play. If he likes to be a frontliner, the best support character won't be fun for him.

And generally, I wouldn't recommend handing a new player Kyra unless I knew it was an undead scenario. Too often, the new player gets "stuck with" playing the cleric.

[Rogue Eidolon]

Hmm wrote:

All the ACG options you've mentioned sound interesting. I think that you're right that he could have a blast as a warpriest. And hey... I've never played any of those classes either. It could be fun to try them out.

I'm loving these suggestions.

Hmm

Yeah, Oloch is an interesting character from a RP perspective too. There's several different ways his story might be progressing. Plus he totes that greatsword with great might!

[Hmm]

BNW: Does it really take you only 15 minutes to make a character?

It takes me hours.... Part of it is reading any available guides, looking at all the features in the various books I have, trying to match mechanics with concept... Right now, I am trying to make Jake and Elwood Blues as half-orc followers of Cayden Cailean (one inquisitor, one bard OR 2 inquisitors) and its taking me forever to balance out the different options for flavor and crunch.

Hmm

[BigNorseWolf]

Yes.

Remember that you're completely maleable until you hit second level, so any minor tweaks you want to make after first level are fine in between sessions.

[Fomsie]

And with that reasoning, no reason not to try a pregen.

I would suggest the Bloodrager or the Warpriest, those and a few other of the ACG pregens seem to actually have been built as good examples of their classes and their abilities as opposed to most of the older ones.

[TriOmegaZero]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Harsk is trying to use a crossbow. He doesn't have the feat from the APG that makes crossbows even moderately usable, and doesn't have point blank and precise shot. He's shooting into melee and through people at -8 for 1d10 damage

You may want to redownload the pregens. Just saying.

[Shisumo]

They're old at this point, but you might take a look at these.

[Tsriel]

Hmm wrote:

It takes me hours.... Part of it is reading any available guides, looking at all the features in the various books I have, trying to match mechanics with concept... Right now, I am trying to make Jake and Elwood Blues as half-orc followers of Cayden Cailean (one inquisitor, one bard OR 2 inquisitors) and its taking me forever to balance out the different options for flavor and crunch.

Hmm

It's easily doable in 15 minutes. Maybe not so much for heavy caster classes. Of course, a solid amount of understanding and experience in the ruleset (and also repetition) helps. If you have Hero Labs, it's even faster.

I don't own a license to Hero Labs though. Personally, I like using this website over the official SRD (although I end up doublechecking on the offical anyway), which really speeds up my builds.

Shisumo wrote:

They're old at this point, but you might take a look at these.

Those aren't too shabby although you probably want to customize them abit for they are somewhat dated. Just remember, you can always rebuild as much as you want while you're still 1st level.

[Sebastian Hirsch]

All the ACG pregens are great, but IMO the swashbuckler, the warpriest and the bloodrager offer a nice range of options, without beeing to complicated.

[Hmm]

Steven Schopmeyer wrote:

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Harsk is trying to use a crossbow. He doesn't have the feat from the APG that makes crossbows even moderately usable, and doesn't have point blank and precise shot. He's shooting into melee and through people at -8 for 1d10 damage

You may want to redownload the pregens. Just saying.

I looked at Harsk. He does appear reformed, at least as far as getting feats to use that crossbow.

Quinn looks like a lot of fun. I'm actually glad that I'm looking through these now. It is helping me better understand some of the stuff from the ACG.

Hmm

[BartonOliver]

Of the 7 pregens Seelah (Paladin) has become the go to around me, a partially charged (38) cure moderate wand and smite 3/day makes her generally usable (though I wouldn't suggest using 7 pregens in a 10-11). Otherwise, most are at least okay, I'd suggest avoiding the Ninja and the Ranger though.

[Ascalaphus]

Yeah, I appreciate Harsk trying to be better. I think by level 4 he's an okay though not great character.

[Kristen Gipson]

Haven't used any of the ACG, but the ones most used in our region is Kyra (almost always), Valeros, Seelah, and Seoni.

[GinoA]

On liking their own character, PFS characters can be freely rebuilt (except for PP purchases and consumed consumables) until played as second level.

Throw together a basic example of something you think he might like the idea of and he can rework it as he sees fit after a couple sessions.

[Jayson MF Kip]

From personal experience:

Level 1 Kess is pretty solid for the first round, when she critically punches a foe for 2d6+8. She is less impressive in round 2 after she's been criticalled for 27 damage and is dead.

Maybe more data is necessary.

[Fomsie]

Jayson MF Kip wrote:

From personal experience:

Level 1 Kess is pretty solid for the first round, when she critically punches a foe for 2d6+8. She is less impressive in round 2 after she's been criticalled for 27 damage and is dead.

Maybe more data is necessary.

Tsk Tsk

Sounds like a horrible case of NPC one-upsmanship! The nerve!

[Silbeg]

Hmm wrote:

Steven Schopmeyer wrote:

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Harsk is trying to use a crossbow. He doesn't have the feat from the APG that makes crossbows even moderately usable, and doesn't have point blank and precise shot. He's shooting into melee and through people at -8 for 1d10 damage

You may want to redownload the pregens. Just saying.

I looked at Harsk. He does appear reformed, at least as far as getting feats to use that crossbow.

Yeah, he is quite a bit better with it. Only thing really I would do for that path would be to get vital strike and deadly aim... Especially deadly aim. Then, at least, he is getting everything out of the crossbow he can, every round.

So, he's better, especially if used right. By that, I mean using him to shoot casters as they cast. Still, his damage is subpar at 1d10+2 at 7, it is about all he can hope for, to disrupt a spell.

[Silbeg]

I really liked playing Lem the one time I played a pregen. He's versatile, covers a bunch of bases, and makes everyone else better. Not necessarily the one for a rookie, but for an experienced player he's really good.

For a simple caster, you cannot beat Seoni. Lots of casts, all blasts. Easy to learn!

[FiddlersGreen]

I've always enjoyed playing Lini at level 7. Between wild shape, spontaneous summons and druid spells, she's exceptionally versatile. Especially if you need to get your party airborne.

[keerawa]

I would recommend Amiri the barbarian, Seelah the paladin, or Kyra the cleric. If your friend has lots of experience with 3.5, then you can toss in some more complicated pregen options, like the swashbuckler or sorcerer.

[Rerednaw]

Mechanically at Tier 1-2?
Amiri(barbarian)

Whom I had the most fun with?
Lem (bard)

Gnomish comedy troupe. (5 of us all playing Lem)
At sea.
vs. raging barbarian pirates.
"Arrrrr!"

[BigNorseWolf]

Silbeg wrote:

So, he's better, especially if used right. By that, I mean using him to shoot casters as they cast. Still, his damage is subpar at 1d10+2 at 7, it is about all he can hope for, to disrupt a spell.

.. That is still well past terribad. A familiar with a magic missile wand, or even a weasel causing people to bleed would do better.

[Sebastian Hirsch]

I think Harsk suffers from being a concept character, since all the CRB iconics have something that breaks the mold a bit:

-our barbarian iconic is a woman
-our paladin is a woman and black (yeah I would prefer not mentioning this, but this would have been quite unimaginable 30 years ago)
and our ranger isn't an elf, doesn't use a bow, isn't a dwarf that likes to drink...

Yeah poor Harsk suffers from using a bad weapon, having bad racial modifiers for his class and suffering from a class mechanic (favored enemy) that seems to based on a certain drow ranger.

I think he would benefit greatly from the APG spells gravity bow, instant enemy, lead blades and others and maybe vital strike.

[David Bowles]

How about not using a crossbow?

[TriOmegaZero]

I'm not sure what else he could use and still be iconic. Dwarves aren't usually thought of using longbows, and Valeros already took the two weapon fighting slot.

[David Bowles]

Shortbow? Crossbows are so bad that I've let them hit touch AC inside 30 ft in my homebrews and they still suck.

[TriOmegaZero]

I could see the short bow, but I doubt other people would.

[Sniggevert]

Steven Schopmeyer wrote:

I'm not sure what else he could use and still be iconic.

This...dwarves (at least used to be) known for their axes, hammers and crossbows as weapons of choice.

I know they're not as mechanically sound, but they truly are iconic for dwarves in my mind.

Maybe give him a light crossbow instead, so that with rapid reload at least he gets full shots like a bow...